#Spygate

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

But it could provide some evidence that this incident was not a singleton and was planned/orchestrated (systemic), and likely known by those with more influence.

remember, we stated this person was "acting alone"

Did we? I haven't seen anything like that anywhere. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Danwulfe said:

The rumoured submission

It reads much more like something written by an AI-assisted draft than by a professional legal representative.

A few reasons why:

The language is overly dramatic and repetitive (“serious and systematic breach”, “antithesis of good faith”, “contempt for the competing club”).

It throws in a very large number of legal claims at once, some of which are weak, questionable, or unlikely to apply.

A solicitor would usually be much more cautious about alleging things like fraud, deception, or unlawful economic interference without hard evidence.

The structure looks AI-generated/legal-template style: numbered headings, broad assertions, repeated phrasing, and exhaustive lists.

Real legal correspondence is normally tighter, more precise, and avoids speculative conclusions like:

“explicit knowledge and authorisation by club management”

“gross negligence” unless evidence already exists.

A lawyer would usually distinguish clearly between:

proven facts,

allegations,

and possible inferences. This draft blurs them together.

The biggest tell is probably the legal overreach. Claims like:

“Misuse of Private Information”

“Trade Secrets Regulations 2018”

“Fraud and Deception”

“Economic Tort”

Feels like someone searched for every remotely related legal concept and added them in. A professional sports lawyer would probably focus narrowly on the relevant English Football League regulations and maybe trespass/confidentiality at most.

It does sound superficially “legal”, but in the way AI often does: confident, comprehensive, and formal-sounding — while lacking restraint and proportionality.

Edited 1 hour ago by Matthew Le God

[Farmer Saint]

Loving the comments on that BBC page - fans of nearly all clubs have turned on Boro.

Hilarious.

#prayforboro

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No idea if that's true or not but if it is, would those articles saying "if Southampton are proven to have done this multiple times they will be kicked out" a load of bollocks then because this hearing will just be looking at if we have broken these two rules and not charges of systemic spying? 

The EFL have only announced charges relating to the 2 rules and Middlesborough alone, not multiple clubs - unlike the Leeds case.

[Willo of Whiteley]

35 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

I actually like that kit - the red and white one

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

But it could provide some evidence that this incident was not a singleton and was planned/orchestrated (systemic), and likely known by those with more influence.

remember, we stated this person was "acting alone"

"Within 72 hours"?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

The EFL have only announced charges relating to the 2 rules and Middlesborough alone, not multiple clubs - unlike the Leeds case.

Boro have submitted evidence to suggest this was not a one off incident in order to cast doubt in the mind of the EFL.  They want to make it bigger than this incident. They know they need to.  The EFL is in a tricky spot with this all and that is in all likelihood going to play into Saints hands - if Boro are successful in convincing the EFL to make this bigger than it is with whatever evidence they have submitted, what do the EFL do next that doesn't cause even more issues than already has and impacts other clubs?

[bpsaint]

Hopefully this weekend West Ham get a result at Newcastle, and we have a really controversial FA Cup final so that every footballing mouthpiece has something else to talk about for a change.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Boro have submitted evidence to suggest this was not a one off incident in order to cast doubt in the mind of the EFL.  They want to make it bigger than this incident. They know they need to.  The EFL is in a tricky spot with this all and that is in all likelihood going to play into Saints hands - if Boro are successful in convincing the EFL to make this bigger than it is with whatever evidence they have submitted, what do the EFL do next that doesn't cause even more issues than already has and impacts other clubs?

Written evidence though 😂

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Boro have submitted evidence to suggest this was not a one off incident in order to cast doubt in the mind of the EFL.  They want to make it bigger than this incident. They know they need to.  The EFL is in a tricky spot with this all and that is in all likelihood going to play into Saints hands - if Boro are successful in convincing the EFL to make this bigger than it is with whatever evidence they have submitted, what do the EFL do next that doesn't cause even more issues than already has and impacts other clubs?

But it's not the efl who decides? Isn't it just the independent panel ruling on what our punishment is for breaking those two rules (which it sounds like we are going to admit to breaking anyway). 

[coalman]

#KarenFCForumWatch

A brief lull in proceedings after a brief, but ultimately doomed, attempt to identify the poster known as TeessideAcko. During which time various forum members admit posting literally anything they can find on the Internet that's supportive of Karen FC as fact. At least one member is considering writing a formal complaint to BBC Tees over Nail Maddison's betrayal. Some likening his betrayal of "Gibbo" to an earlier historical event involving one J. Iscariot. The mood can be described as more "high on spirits" than "spirits are high".

[Paul_B]

Is it bad that I wouldn't mind if Dragan got some his Serbian boys to make this Gibbo cunt disappear? 

[badgerx16]

I trust the KC chairing the panel to ignore the smoke screen and concentrate on the specific charge and only the evidence relating to that.

[Pamplemousse]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

But it's not the efl who decides? Isn't it just the independent panel ruling on what our punishment is for breaking those two rules (which it sounds like we are going to admit to breaking anyway). 

The EFL will propose or recommend a sanction

[RedArmy]

“Maddo should have kept his mouth shut until after the hearing.

Disappointing.”

oh the irony 

[LGTL]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

But it's not the efl who decides? Isn't it just the independent panel ruling on what our punishment is for breaking those two rules (which it sounds like we are going to admit to breaking anyway). 

Indeed. It’s technically EFL v Southampton FC, so the EFL can’t decide shit. 

Boro might have written evidence of other spying, but it’s hearsay. Inadmissable. The grievances of a disgruntled ex-employee. None of those other clubs have made a complaint and so they won’t be ruling on the truth, or otherwise, of that statement. 

It possibly provides additional context, but completely unproven. 

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

And still it goes on. 'strong written evidence' is essentially this one bloke unless he has written evidence from someone like Spors it isn't strong. 'At least one other team' means it's one other doesn't it 

Totally irrelevant to the charge that has been made against us which is specific to the pre SF 1st leg tie. 

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

But it's not the efl who decides? Isn't it just the independent panel ruling on what our punishment is for breaking those two rules (which it sounds like we are going to admit to breaking anyway). 

Yep - fair.  The sub the EFL for panel in that 🙂 

A combination of logistics and the rules / law will make this hard for it to be bigger than the initial charge unless Boro found a ridiculous amount of evidence and / or something that was highly incriminating that couldn't be dismissed with doubt or reason.

One chink in their approach was already exposed in the last 24hrs when the clubs their media puppets felt comfortable naming as witnesses to spying came out and firmly dismissed it.  Now we're down to a club thinking Saints knew their set pieces and it sounds like an ex-employee (who also worked for Boro) being mentioned.  Neither would stand up as serious evidence in front of a panel aware of all legal ramifications.  So the unknown is...do Boro have more evidence?  And is there more evidence?  There wasn't too long to gather it all but you never know what is shared in public and what is kept behind.

[Sheaf Saint]

Shall we do a sweepstake on how many pages this thread will reach before the final ruling is published? 

Put me down for 112.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just now, RedArmy said:

“Maddo should have kept his mouth shut until after the hearing.

Disappointing.”

oh the irony 

The wankkng empji couldn’t be more applicable to some of these journos every time they hear the word “Spygate”

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Appy said:

The Telegraph headline basically says we’ve been spying on others as a matter of fact. 
 

Then goes on just to mention the statement from our ex analyst and suspicions of other clubs because of our tactics (because we beat them) 

 

It’s all very desperate.

No it doesn't. 

The headline is "Southampton 'spied' on other Championship clubs, EFL told".

It's not reporting anything as a 'matter of fact'. It's reporting that that is what Boro have told the EFL as part of their submission, which we've basically known all along. What's telling though is this line: 

"It is also thought other clubs have privately expressed concerns"

'Privately' strongly suggests that the other clubs in question haven't come forward with any evidence or statements to support Boro's accusations.

Which leaves Karen FC with their dick swinging in the breeze, making lots of unfounded accusations about what happened to other clubs, which none of those clubs have corroborated. And looking a bit silly. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

The wankkng empji couldn’t be more applicable to some of these journos every time they hear the word “Spygate”

Bit like Alex 'crooky' Crook. 
What a fucking bellend he is. Getting all righteous about us being kicked out.

The other day he was banging the drum for Bruno Fernandes being player of the season. Yeah, one of the biggest cheats in the league.

 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Shall we do a sweepstake on how many pages this thread will reach before the final ruling is published? 

Put me down for 112.

133

[AlexLaw76]

157

[Lee On Solent Saint]

143

[Sheaf Saint]

Yeah I might have severely underestimated.

[coalman]

Surely we've already seen about 20 different rulings "published". This challenge is over before it began.

[Convict Colony]

the best thing about this thread is everyone bar Milton using AI to write their views on the legal arguements  and passing it off as their own.

[Pamplemousse]

170

[egg]

Just now, Convict Colony said:

the best thing about this thread is everyone bar Milton using AI to write their views on the legal arguements  and passing it off as their own.

Not all...but most are. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yeah I might have severely underestimated.

Yep. I think I have. 

[coalman]

It's getting published tonight. I'm nearly 1% sure of that fact.

[Midfield_General]

26 minutes ago, coalman said:

#KarenFCForumWatch

TeessideAcko's post has led to scenes of jubilation among the faithful. Posters were metaphorically dancing in the streets until some wet blanket pointed out the poster is a wind up merchant known for talking bullshit. You join us as the scenes of joy slowly die out and the forum reverts to it's previous steady state of expecting Gibbo to go and sort them.

Please keep this going.

Actually no hang on - can you get done for spying on another team's forum more than 72 hours before the verdict of an EFL's independent panel is announced?

We don't need Gibbo coming after us for that as well, he's so scary

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Yep - fair.  The sub the EFL for panel in that 🙂 

A combination of logistics and the rules / law will make this hard for it to be bigger than the initial charge unless Boro found a ridiculous amount of evidence and / or something that was highly incriminating that couldn't be dismissed with doubt or reason.

One chink in their approach was already exposed in the last 24hrs when the clubs their media puppets felt comfortable naming as witnesses to spying came out and firmly dismissed it.  Now we're down to a club thinking Saints knew their set pieces and it sounds like an ex-employee (who also worked for Boro) being mentioned.  Neither would stand up as serious evidence in front of a panel aware of all legal ramifications.  So the unknown is...do Boro have more evidence?  And is there more evidence?  There wasn't too long to gather it all but you never know what is shared in public and what is kept behind.

Doesn't this "whistle-blower" and ex employee now work for Karenbrough?

[Saint_clark]

Talk sport have the audacity to blame Saints for "this poor analyst having his face plastered over the papers", it wasn't us that leaked it FFS. 

[Saintinnot]

On the Boro Forum they even think it may be ' Lallana - the Whistle Blower '  😂

 I'm thinking in the case of the sacked analyst, or even if it is Lallana, it's been reported that he doesn't get on with Eckert.

 

[CanadaSaint]

10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Shall we do a sweepstake on how many pages this thread will reach before the final ruling is published? 

Put me down for 112.

Boro’s is at 120 and clearly gathering momentum - with this nugget of well informed legalese from SmoggyParmo:

“I'm just clutching at straws and sharing rumours I stumble across on tw@tter”

 

[RedArmy]

Lallana 

 

These lot live on a different planet. 

[Appy]

2 minutes ago, Saintinnot said:

On the Boro Forum they even think it may be ' Lallana - the Whistle Blower '  😂

 I'm thinking in the case of the sacked analyst, or even if it is Lallana, it's been reported that he doesn't get on with Eckert.

 

They’ve done their research there, our current under 21s manager being the whistleblower. 
 

More genius from the Smoggy Karens

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Saintinnot said:

On the Boro Forum they even think it may be ' Lallana - the Whistle Blower '  😂

 I'm thinking in the case of the sacked analyst, or even if it is Lallana, it's been reported that he doesn't get on with Eckert.

 

That would be pretty funny and would make him back to being hated again! 

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Please keep this going.

Actually no hang on - can you get done for spying on another team's forum more than 72 hours before the verdict of an EFL's independent panel is announced?

We don't need Gibbo coming after us for that as well, he's so scary

It's actually harder than you think. Though between our two fora and reddit it's possible to see all the insane conspiracy theories in near real time. Watching two groups of people oscillate in and out of certainty is a fascinating process and possibly the clearest example I've found as to why the Internet messes people up.

As for Gibbo, I'll take my chances. Usually I only piss off billionaires so it's a nice change of pace.

Edited 39 minutes ago by coalman

[6ft8saint]

3 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Club should have sent @6ft8saint instead - he’d have had a panoramic view of their training pitch.

Went to Middlesbrough many years ago shit hole on the docks. Only good thing was the strip club in the old car ferry before the match 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, 6ft8saint said:

Went to Middlesbrough many years ago shit hole on the docks. Only good thing was the strip club in the old car ferry before the match 

Were you the pole? 

[Midfield_General]

2 minutes ago, coalman said:

It's actually harder than you think. Though between our two fora and reddit it's possible to see all the insane conspiracy theories in near real time. Watching two groups of people oscillate in and out of certainty is a fascinating process and possibly the clearest example I've found as to why the Internet messes people up.

As for Gibbo, I'll take my chances. Usually I only piss of billionaires so it's a nice change of pace.

'Fora'

Lovely stuff

[coalman]

#KarenFCForumWatch

The unspeakable has happened. After a brief period of who watches the watchers things have taken a dark turn. In the middle of some harmless witch hunting of former Southampton and Middlesborough player, Neil Maddison, it has been proposed that a suitable replacement would be James Corden. Has the moral argument been lost? One would hope saner voices will prevail and pull them back from the brink. Some things are just a step too far.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

What was our longest thread ever? In 20 years this forum has existed this must have a chance of breaking the record. 

In 20 years, the mods have finally found a post they can recommend. 🙂

[whelk]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Henry Winter is a sycophantic wet wipe

The most pompous of all journalists. Doesn’t have a paper now and apparently waffles on on x - loathed him for decades

[Midfield_General]

6 minutes ago, 6ft8saint said:

Went to Middlesbrough many years ago shit hole on the docks. Only good thing was the strip club in the old car ferry before the match 

I've been to that strip club in the car ferry!

Didn't think much of the talent though

Edited 38 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

'Fora'

Lovely stuff

I didn’t realise at the time that Stephen Mangan was sex people

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

I've been to that strip club!

Didn't think much of the talent though

Oh look, she's recreating your visit with a size accurate digit!