West Ham 2-3 Saints - Match Thread

[Saint Garrett]

On 21/10/2026 at 23:47, Saint Fan CaM said:

Completely agree that Bowen will have Manning on toast. Hoping Tonda will do the right thing and start with Welington, bringing on Manning later particularly if we’re behind.

Welington was awful against Bowen in the cup game at St Marys.  Obviously Bowen is far too good for this league so anyone we put out there will struggle, but not sure there is much between Welington and Manning tbh

[sadoldgit]

15 hours ago, John B said:

Why do you always try to be Billy Big Bollix and bully posters

The point I was making is that in our last four league games (currently)we have only scored three League goals I think which is contributing possibly to a flat feeling and a lack of true confidence within the fan base which includes me.

If we get some good luck we may well score a few goals and there will be more confidence on here

 

 

I’m not sure that stating the obvious can be equated to someone being Billy Big Bollix or bullying. We all know that MLG is a pedant (but he is factually correct). He could also have said that we have kept 3 clean sheets on the bounce so arguably we should have more confidence that we won’t concede! 

[skintsaint]

[Football Special]

10 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Perhaps trying to keep West Ham guessing but I think its very unlikely either Downes or Larin will feature , neither have trained so far this week , who knows though perhaps theyve been doing off-pitch recovery work 

[LiberalCommunist]

Yeah, or we might have a key player harshly sent off in the first few minutes because the ref has failed to account for the slippery conditions and... 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Oh god. Your version feels far more likely now in the cold light of day. Damn it. 

Edited yesterday at 08:55 by LiberalCommunist

[Teamsaint1]

Azaz/Dobbin up top in blustery conditions might work well ?

[BARCELONASAINT]

I can't see anything but a loss unfortunately. I cannot see Larin or Flynn playing and we are woeful up front without Larin. We nee Flynns bite and without it i can see us being over run in midfield. 

[Pamplemousse]

Stupid decision by whoever made it to think we could rely on just Larin for the entire season.

[Patches O Houlihan]

16 hours ago, John B said:

Why do you always try to be Billy Big Bollix and bully posters

The point I was making is that in our last four league games (currently)we have only scored three League goals I think which is contributing possibly to a flat feeling and a lack of true confidence within the fan base which includes me.

If we get some good luck we may well score a few goals and there will be more confidence on here

According to Tonda whilst we have only scored 2 in our last three games, we have made more chances than any other team in the league. It is the quality of finishing that has been missing. (We could have put 3 or 4 past Bolton of course)
 

 

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Stupid decision by whoever made it to think we could rely on just Larin for the entire season.

We didn't, we signed Mubama and Dobbin.

[Saint86]

43 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Stupid decision by whoever made it to think we could rely on just Larin for the entire season.

That wasn't the decision though was it. Aston Villa delayed and signed THB right at the end of the window after we'd missed out on preferred targets - and the club decided to keep their powder dry until January (rather than panic spend it on the wrong players) 🤷‍♂️

Edited yesterday at 11:01 by Saint86

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

That wasn't the decision though was it. Aston Villa delayed and signed THB right at the end of the window after we'd missed out on preferred targets - and the club decided to keep their powder dry until January (rather than panic spend it on the wrong players) 🤷‍♂️

how do you know that is the case at all?

We tried for Lankshear, so clearly had the pennies to go. Anyway, Mubama was supposed to be that man....Tonda is obviously not having him (yet)....which is a shame as we needed someone good to go from the off.

I mean, it should have been obvious to all that Larin was never able to play so many minutes in such a time. He was in/out of the team (brilliantly) from Jan, and even his national team manager calls him 'Old Man'.....

 

Edited yesterday at 11:08 by AlexLaw76

[James]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

We didn't, we signed Mubama and Dobbin.

Stupid decision by whoever made it that an inexperienced loanee from Man City would be an appropriate back up to Larin for a team trying for autos. Re Dobbin, clearly it wasn’t part of the plan for him to be ahead of Mubama in the pecking order, he was an alternate for Azaz/Leo. 

[Saint Marky]

We’re gonna smash these ‘fick, muvva, pearly queens’ with their knees up mother brown and shit flat caps. Perv Sullivan is gonna choke on his jellied eels, when our fifth is smashed in, he’ll be blowing bubbles out of his arsehole….don’t know what just happened,I’ve just come all over Wade Garrett… tissues please…

[LGTL]

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

You didn't go to Reading in 2008 or Leeds in 2009 then.

Wigan away in the FA Cup quarter final knocks all these out the park. That’s the most cold I’ve ever been in my life, let alone football 😂

[AlexLaw76]

52 minutes ago, James said:

Stupid decision by whoever made it that an inexperienced loanee from Man City would be an appropriate back up to Larin for a team trying for autos. Re Dobbin, clearly it wasn’t part of the plan for him to be ahead of Mubama in the pecking order, he was an alternate for Azaz/Leo. 

we did not need a back up to Larin, we needed someone to challenge him 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

we did not need a back up to Larin, we needed someone to challenge him 

However you put it, we needed an alternative, but as has been said a million times, nobody decent is coming to play second fiddle in the championship. On paper Mubama looked decent enough, although on the pitch, he doesn't. 

[Graffito]

28 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Wigan away in the FA Cup quarter final knocks all these out the park. That’s the most cold I’ve ever been in my life, let alone football 😂

That was cold but colder was Norwich away, might have been 2013, when a cold front hit at halftime exactly as forecast. Coldest I’ve ever been at a football match.

[Midfield_General]

11 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

At least it's a modern covered stadium so the fans will be dry. I don't think I've ever been so cold at a game than a couple of years ago at Villa Park during a storm. Awful.

Southampton 4-1 Norwich at the Dell, evening kick off, February 1990. Le Tiss lit it up with beautiful goals but I was at the top of the uncovered family stand and my god, I have never been so cold in any scenario before or since then, including when I was forced to jump in the North Sea on new year's day a few years back. It was extraordinary.

Edited 21 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Midfield_General]

Edit: should have read the rest of the thread first. 

Edited yesterday at 12:48 by Midfield_General

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

You didn't go to Reading in 2008 or Leeds in 2009 then.

Yep, Reading away was a bit parky that night. Coldest I remember was a couple of games against Sheff Utd, early 90s at Brammall Lane, fine when we set off but all changed around Leicester and hit a blizzard. We had a full transit van and drove straight to the ground to see if still on, which it was, and then found a decent pub for a few hours. Went back there again after, left Sheffield late. Great day out other than losing 4-1.

We also had a December game with them at St Mary's years later that was arctic.

Tough call for tomorrow, both sides capable of beating anyone in this division but both having off days early season. Personnel available will dictate.

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I’m not sure that stating the obvious can be equated to someone being Billy Big Bollix or bullying.

Not necessarily here but it's odd. Many years ago, before handy smartphones, in a group I was in someone asked about how many litres in a gallon and there was a bit of umming and erring. So I piped up with the rough answer (1 decimal place!) and then got grief for being so positive about it. I really did'nt understand that attitude for such a simple fact.

[swedish dave]

Larin ?.maybe not, and not Downes either, so now we are down to Tonda's Plan B.

Mubama isn't a first choice, and only gets a minutes off the bench in the last quarter

so why aren'r we considering the club's leading scorer with  12 goals in 9 starts.

It's  Princewill Ehibhatiomhan.  (a nightmare for most commentators to keep repeating) 

but the lad seems to be scoring for fun in the U21's , and even if this might be a tough ask

v. WHam away ...why not see how he faces up to a good class opposition?. 

Right now there are lots of fans who would settle for one point -even before the kick-off, but if

we don't take the chance to try our best talents , I don't know when the lad will get any game time.

[sadoldgit]

18 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Not necessarily here but it's odd. Many years ago, before handy smartphones, in a group I was in someone asked about how many litres in a gallon and there was a bit of umming and erring. So I piped up with the rough answer (1 decimal place!) and then got grief for being so positive about it. I really did'nt understand that attitude for such a simple fact.

For as long as I can remember MLG has been the self-proclaimed fact checker on this forum, something I find quite endearing. I appreciate that he can, sometimes, be over zealous when carrying out his duties. On this particular occasion I don’t think he overstepped the mark. For those of us who aren’t pedantic, I quite understand that this need to be so precise about facts is puzzling, but given what we are seeing in the White House and with many politicians over here, perhaps we need more MLGs in our lives?

What particularly caught my eye was the accusation of bullying given that, due to his pedantry, MLG is one of the most bullied posters on the forum.

Edited yesterday at 13:27 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Saint Fan CaM]

5 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Welington was awful against Bowen in the cup game at St Marys.  Obviously Bowen is far too good for this league so anyone we put out there will struggle, but not sure there is much between Welington and Manning tbh

Nothing different between them accept that Manning too often gets caught out on walkabout upfield in a dereliction of defending duty and even when he manages to get back he generally fails to close down an attacker, letting numerous crosses into the box. Welington at least tries to defend properly. Agree though that Bowen is a cut-above. Perhaps the answer is to put Welington at LB, Manning at LW and either give Scienza a rest or move him inside (unlikely).

[BarberSaint]

31 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Not necessarily here but it's odd. Many years ago, before handy smartphones, in a group I was in someone asked about how many litres in a gallon and there was a bit of umming and erring. So I piped up with the rough answer (1 decimal place!) and then got grief for being so positive about it. I really did'nt understand that attitude for such a simple fact.

I imagine in your case it was a form of solidarity of stupidity and the fact that someone knew put them out because they chose to feel stupid and got defensive. 

While I can appreciate that a certain poster does look for facts rather than just spout off (rubbish, particularly when it's something that was/should have been/could have been readily known), albeit I suppose that's part of the make-up of what constitutes a modern forum in that it's quite close to face to face speech, there is a bit more to it than that.

The question of 'bullying' is also interesting, but far more complex. To a degree, my mind is  'if you ask for it, you have to take it' but, again, there's more to that than that.

Anyway, let's beat West Ham (or come away with a 0-0) and I think we can then look at other results more positively. The league looks as though it could actually be quite tight for a lot of teams. 

[O_B]

Surprised that this wasn't one of the 3 kickoffs moved for lunchtime TV.  Portsmouth v Millwall was.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

Wigan away in the FA Cup quarter final knocks all these out the park. That’s the most cold I’ve ever been in my life, let alone football 😂

I'll see your Wigan away and raise you an Oxford midweek away some ten or twenty years ago.

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Southampton 4-1 Norwich at the Dell, evening kick off, February 1990. Le Tiss lit it up with two beautiful goals but I was at the top of the uncovered family stand and my god, I have never been so cold in any scenario before or since then, including when I was forced to jump in the North Sea on new year's day a few years back. It was extraordinary.

You thinking of WHU at home?  MLT scored after about 30 seconds .... was snowing & a pipe burst under the East Stand stand to make things worse!

[qwertyell]

Suspect we're going to get a reality check of where we stand in the promotion shake up across this next run of nine games, taking in West Ham, QPR, WBA, Sheffield Utd, Middlesbrough, and Wolves. 

Not an ideal time to lose our only striker.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

59 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

You thinking of WHU at home?  MLT scored after about 30 seconds .... was snowing & a pipe burst under the East Stand stand to make things worse!

I remember a game against Liverpool in February. Think it wa Valentine's Day, Craig Maskell's second debut. Think he might have scored twice? It started snowing either pre-game or during it, and it was bitterly cold on the Milton that night. 

[Midfield_General]

26 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I remember a game against Liverpool in February. Think it wa Valentine's Day, Craig Maskell's second debut. Think he might have scored twice? It started snowing either pre-game or during it, and it was bitterly cold on the Milton that night. 

Yeah that was another good one. 1994.  Smashed them 4-2 after being 4-0 up at one point. Started off alright then turned into a blizzard half way through the second half. That was a strong Liverpool team and we played them off the park that night. Le Tiss got a hat trick and Maskell got the other one. Absolutely baltic, but worth it 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, warsash saint said:

You thinking of WHU at home?  MLT scored after about 30 seconds .... was snowing & a pipe burst under the East Stand stand to make things worse!

Nah it was definitely Norwich. 1-0 down at half time then Le Tiss was unplayable second half, scored another hat trick for a 4-1 win. Think Kevin Moore got the other one. So, so cold. 

[Badger]

3 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

Yep, Reading away was a bit parky that night. Coldest I remember was a couple of games against Sheff Utd, early 90s at Brammall Lane, fine when we set off but all changed around Leicester and hit a blizzard. We had a full transit van and drove straight to the ground to see if still on, which it was, and then found a decent pub for a few hours. Went back there again after, left Sheffield late. Great day out other than losing 4-1.

We also had a December game with them at St Mary's years later that was arctic.

Tough call for tomorrow, both sides capable of beating anyone in this division but both having off days early season. Personnel available will dictate.

Reading away in FA Cup 3rd round, January 1996 was bitterly cold. It was questionable if the match would go ahead, the pitch seemed frozen when they kicked off and Souness was moaning about it after the game (which we lost).

Some years before that Bristol City at Ashton Gate on the Friday night, something like 19th December. Terrace fairly empty so it was real Brass Monkey weather 

[Badger]

3 hours ago, egg said:

However you put it, we needed an alternative, but as has been said a million times, nobody decent is coming to play second fiddle in the championship. On paper Mubama looked decent enough, although on the pitch, he doesn't. 

Did he ? Don’t recall reading anythIng about being a target man type of CF to hold the ball up or link up play as with Larin. 

[Draino76]

3 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Nothing different between them accept that Manning too often gets caught out on walkabout upfield in a dereliction of defending duty and even when he manages to get back he generally fails to close down an attacker, letting numerous crosses into the box. Welington at least tries to defend properly. Agree though that Bowen is a cut-above. Perhaps the answer is to put Welington at LB, Manning at LW and either give Scienza a rest or move him inside (unlikely).

Not bad.  Welly at LB, Manning LW, and Scienza to come on later. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Some years before that Bristol City at Ashton Gate on the Friday night, something like 19th December. Terrace fairly empty so it was real Brass Monkey weather 

Guess you're on about a 1-0 win a few days before Christmas, there was a bit of snow about and remember going on a coach from outside The Warrens. Think we had a decent turnout that night but is was on a big open terrace back then so a bit exposed to the elements. Just had a Google and it was 21st December 1979 and saw this...

 

[BarberSaint]

5 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

Guess you're on about a 1-0 win a few days before Christmas, there was a bit of snow about and remember going on a coach from outside The Warrens. Think we had a decent turnout that night but is was on a big open terrace back then so a bit exposed to the elements. Just had a Google and it was 21st December 1979 and saw this...

 

Was that published before the game and within 72 hours of it?

[egg]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Did he ? Don’t recall reading anythIng about being a target man type of CF to hold the ball up or link up play as with Larin. 

I said we needed an alternative to Larin. That doesn't mean a clone. 

[Paul_B]

10 hours ago, Teamsaint1 said:

Azaz/Dobbin up top in blustery conditions might work well ?

What so Dobbins wayward shots might get blown in by the wind?

[Tommy Mulgrew]

“Coldest I’ve ever been at a football match.”

Almost every match between Christmas 1962 and the beginning of March 1963 on the raised terrace box at the Milton Road end.  My monkeys have never been as brassed off ever since.

If I remember right, the sea froze over down at the Weston Shore.

I’ll probably not see the like ever again: not in this country, at least.

Those were the days, my friend; I thought they’d never end.

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Did he ? Don’t recall reading anythIng about being a target man type of CF to hold the ball up or link up play as with Larin. 

You’re not going to get a big player who can hold the ball up well and score goals to come and sit on the bench for 2/3 of the match in the Championship. There’s going to be a compromise somewhere. Mubama, Downs and Mara are the level of players you’re going to get. Even in 2012 we didn’t have anyone with Lambert’s physical presence on the bench.

 

It’s a squad game, you need players with different attributes. It’s up to Tonda to get something out of LD and DM.

[Britannia]

Start Dobbin. Terrified about Larin getting a long term injury if rushed back.

[saintant]

Important that we give a good account of ourselves here win, lose or draw. Injuries to key players make this a game where Tonda needs to have a good tactical game plan in place much like when we went to Coventry and beat them last season. I hope our ball retention is better than it has been lately because it will need to be to get anything here.

[JSpeake]

1 hour ago, Britannia said:

Start Dobbin. Terrified about Larin getting a long term injury if rushed back.

Yep - getting a win at West Ham is going to be difficult even with a fit Larin. There are plenty of other games coming up where we are more likely to get points with a fit Larin and Downes - don’t rush them back and risk long term injuries for one game.

[Teamsaint1]

The optimist in me thinks it could be a bit like the game at Tottenham in late 1977. IIRC we had a depleted team ( Nicholl and Peach injured perhaps, Ossie had departed I think ) but got a vital 0-0 draw in what was a really big game.  Spurs had a very decent side out that day including Hoddle, Perryman, Peter Taylor etc. 
same again would be fine. 
 

[Disco Stu]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

You’re not going to get a big player who can hold the ball up well and score goals to come and sit on the bench for 2/3 of the match in the Championship. There’s going to be a compromise somewhere. Mubama, Downs and Mara are the level of players you’re going to get. Even in 2012 we didn’t have anyone with Lambert’s physical presence on the bench.

 

It’s a squad game, you need players with different attributes. It’s up to Tonda to get something out of LD and DM.

And nobody expected us to. Just a centre forward that could be a focal point and bring others into play. Without Larin, we have no focal point up front. That's the profile we need.

I recall Guly do Prado being a capable centre forward in the 2012-13 season. Not prolific but a physical presence that could at least win the odd header.

Edited 17 hours ago by Disco Stu

[St. Ciervo]

Brain says 3-1 WH. Heart says 1-0 Saints with a JWP winner.

With Larin and Downes out, park the bus and go for the tie or snatch-n-grab.

I hate the bed wetting on this forum sometimes. Rough Bowen up a little bit like teams do to Scienza. Everyone works to earn a yellow today. I welcome the weather to help muddy this affair. 

[bubblyone1976]

14 hours ago, Badger said:

Reading away in FA Cup 3rd round, January 1996 was bitterly cold. It was questionable if the match would go ahead, the pitch seemed frozen when they kicked off and Souness was moaning about it after the game (which we lost).

Some years before that Bristol City at Ashton Gate on the Friday night, something like 19th December. Terrace fairly empty so it was real Brass Monkey weather 

I was at Elm Park in 96, a young Graham Poll was refereeing and Souness was quoted as saying any other ref would have called it off.

Most definitely the coldest I've ever been at  a match.

[obelisk]

11 minutes ago, bubblyone1976 said:

I was at Elm Park in 96, a young Graham Poll was refereeing and Souness was quoted as saying any other ref would have called it off.

Most definitely the coldest I've ever been at  a match.

Graham Poll used to live in Reading so I was surprised to see him get the game. That pitch was freezing and unplayable as were some of the streets nearby.