Portvliet speaks out....

[saint_stevo]

The following is a transcripted part of a larger interview from Voetbal International (Dutch Football Mag) with Jan Poortvliet.

 

Part of the article is about his time at St. Mary's. He blasts the role Mark Wotte played during his tenure with Southampton and expresses his views of his unsuccessful spell.

 

How do you look back at your adventure in England?

JP: It was a horrible spell. At the start it sounded wonderful. I had always dreamed of coaching in England. But as of day one I arrived in a tricky situation. It started with that arbitration against Helmond Sport, where I was working at the time. I"m very sad that things went that way. I have always enjoyed working there and had hoped they'd allow me to take on this opportunity to go to England, but unfortunately they did not. Nevertheless I decided to continue my case since Southampton really wanted me. I had expected them to support me in this case regardless of the outcome of the arbitration. In the end Helmond Sport were allowed a fee of 75.000e. When I signed my contract in Southamption later, it turned out, in a small addendum, that I had to pay this on my own. It's not a sum of money I have waiting on the shelves so it put me into a difficult situation. Also the contract didn't look like I expected. It was a roll-over contract, with an option for another year, after each season. While we had agreed on a three-year deal earlier.

 

Then why did you sign?

JP: It was an unexpected blow. I was there all alone in England. I didn't have a manager or agent with me. I didn't know better, so I put my signature there.

 

What else went wrong after that?

JP: I soon discovered Southmapton is a snakepit. It's a club with a lot of different movements inside. The past few years there have been a lot of people in control and they still have influence in the current organisation. The chairman at the time, Rupert Lowe, was hated by everyone within the organisation. He got me on board, but was almost instantly pressured to get rid of me. Lowe became nervous. He started to interfere with everything. Then he started to moan about our keeper Kelvin Davies couldn't handle the ball well enough. I then told him that this lad has been between the pipes for twenty years. We got into all kind of such useless discussions. All sorts of games were begin played. In the end I was there on my own. An assistant coach and goalkeeper coach were fired, both without any reason. It was one big madhouse. Nobody at Southampton ever seemed to know the word cooperation, everybody wanted to sit on the throne himself. It drove me crazy.

 

You would partner up with Mark Wotte who was presented at the same time as you as Chief Academy. What role did he play in all this?

JP: He never did anything to support me. He was only after one thing: my job.

 

Story is he already criticized you within the board after just the first exhibition game

JP: That’s what I heard too. And so I also found out stories that he constantly was trying to get my job. Officially he was assigned as head of the Academy, but he was never at youth games on Saturday. Then he was always watching the first team from the director’s box. Both home and away. That’s typically of Wotte. Already when you notice his presence it’s clear. Wearing a nice suit, chest and chin up. He felt he was higher ranked than me and felt he had was entitled the job of head coach more than I was. And he succeeded in that as well! After my dismissal he immediately took over. His mission was accomplished.

 

The combination Poortvliet-Wotte seemed impossible from the start.

JP: Well, it was a mistake to put us together. We’re totally different people, but I really did my best to make something from it. I wanted to involve him in everything and had no problem in working on an equal basis. But that wasn’t enough for Wotte. He had his own agenda. After some time our cooperation was that bad that somebody had to go. Him or me. I then also tried to get him out, I’m honest about that. But the club didn’t want to let him go and later I got fired myself. Initially that gave me a hard time but soon I felt enormously relieved. For half a year I had lived with immense stress. I was glad to be home again.

 

Southampton’s results were disappointing under your command. When you were fired, the team were second last in the Championship.

JP: The squad was extremely young, almost all players were between seventeen and early twenty. Physically we didn’t produce enough and we also lacked in experience and attack. But I did what I was asked. The talents developed nicely and at times we played mouthwatering football. In the end I was judged on the lack of results, that’s it. Wotte thought he’d do better. In the end he got relegated with Southampton. Very sorry for the club, but I was glad they went down. I felt screwed by Wotte, that he was relegated gave me peace. Under his command the team started to play kick and rush again. He replaced the promising youngsters with veteran players. The transfer value of the players that had carefully gone up during the season were now minimized again. He demolished all my work and I find that quite painful.

 

Has your spell in England be a success financially?

JP: Stop it, I only had a minimal wage and also had to pay my former team Helmond Sport. In the end all this cost me money rather than earning me. It has been one huge disaster.

 

Mark Wotte was asked to respond on this article.

“I have always supported Jan Poortvliet at Southampton. I’m surprised he now reacts in this fashion. He probably left frustrated, but then he shouldn’t pass it over to me. If he had a problem with me, he should have told me to my face. It’s nonsense that I was after his job, since I preferred my position outside the spotlight. Other than that, it’s not that great to take charge of a team that is in 23rd position. Poortvliet knew why I was in the director’s box during games. This was on request of the chairman who wanted to talk football with me during the games. At times I even defended Poortvliet during those meetings. After his departure I took care of the financial settlement with him. It’s sad that he is now expressing these things about me.”

[saint_stevo]

its a few days old, may be a duplicate, sorry if so

[Suhari]

So who would win in a proper dust up: Wotte of Poortvliet?

[unionhotel]

Wow! It all sounds very sinister and quite sad the way he appears to have been treated. However, nothing surprises me at all with the previous regime. Intresting comments!

[Saint_clark]

"Very sorry for the club, but I was glad they went down. I felt screwed by Wotte, that he was relegated gave me peace. Under his command the team started to play kick and rush again. He replaced the promising youngsters with veteran players. The transfer value of the players that had carefully gone up during the season were now minimized again. He demolished all my work and I find that quite painful."

 

Whilst there's a lot of interesting points in there, I do not like JP for these reasons. Wanting a club to go down to spite one man? Thinking that playing pretty ineffective football whilst trying to sell your best players is more important than doing whatever it takes to stay up?

Him and Lowe were made for each other.

[Mr Saints]

Now even more delighted that Dutch farce is all over.

[lordswoodsaints]

The whole thing was a complete **** up from the start,you cannot blame a man for taking a job and I do feel a bit sorry for JP but he had a choice and if he had achieved good things here he would have gladly accepted the applause.

[Bearsy]

Do you know what Lowe did? He appointed JP and gave him one target for the season.

 

"Maximise the transfer value of our young players."

[Bearsy]

JP's a nice chap, but clearly not too smart.

[glkdcdes]

Nothing in the article is any surprise. The only thing its clarified in my mind is how lucky Pearson was to get out.

Feel sorry for the man,[J.P] he was well and truely screwed by Lowe. I wonder if Lowe can sleep at night? Any way , all in the past now so onwards and upwards, as they say......

[Alain Perrin]

"Very sorry for the club, but I was glad they went down. I felt screwed by Wotte, that he was relegated gave me peace. Under his command the team started to play kick and rush again. He replaced the promising youngsters with veteran players. The transfer value of the players that had carefully gone up during the season were now minimized again. He demolished all my work and I find that quite painful."

 

Whilst there's a lot of interesting points in there, I do not like JP for these reasons. Wanting a club to go down to spite one man? Thinking that playing pretty ineffective football whilst trying to sell your best players is more important than doing whatever it takes to stay up?

Him and Lowe were made for each other.

 

Hmmm let's see.

 

Imagine there is a club, let's call them Sewthumpten, they offer you a contract that dicks you out of £50K. You then get caught in the middle of a civil war and are back stabbed by someone else at the club to get your job.

 

I'd say that he's justified in feeling that way. He wasn't born in Southampton, all he's got is 12 months wages.

 

Even the most blinkered fan could see that last year was a strategy aimed at cutting costs to the bone to stave off relegation AND administration. It failed.

 

If you want to blame someone for the mess blame the infighting *****s on the board, who seemed happy to fight it out in the Echo than settle their differences and work together.

 

Personally I liked JP. Out of his depth but at times (particularly early on), Saints played some great football. Certainly a million times better than the ******** at Swindon on Tuesday.

 

But JP is history, the future in AP and, given time, I am hopefully that the quality can be regained, but this time with results.

Edited 20 August, 2009 by Alain Perrin

[Glasgow_Saint]

all sounds very weird and atmosphere must have been terrible. no doubt the players were effected.

 

Lowe is a strange guy - lets hope he keeps away from football now and doesnt let lightning strike twice

[Alain Perrin]

Do you know what Lowe did? He appointed JP and gave him one target for the season.

 

"Maximise the transfer value of our young players."

 

Hmmm, why would he do that?

[kpturner]

I thought we covered it here: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15864

[Viking Warrior]

sound ike somebody has distorted the facts of what he actually said.

 

Im not sure this is a factually correct article but altered by someone on here that despises lowe

 

I was interested in this comment "The past few years there have been a lot of people in control and they still have influence in the current organisation.

 

But than I see who posted this.none other than tic tacs mate Saint Stevo

 

Heres a tip for you Mr I am the perfect saints fan (***t), Sant Stevo let it go mate we are in a new era now stop living inthe past FFS

[saint_stevo]

LOL

 

I'm not living in the past, just saw it and thought it interesting and Saints related.

 

I copy and pasted it, so keep your abuse to yourself, and if you got a problem, PM me.

[Verbal]

sound ike somebody has distorted the facts of what he actually said.

 

Evidence? Really - I'm curious.

[Viking Warrior]

Verbal

 

I doubt very much its JP speaking like that to a football mag. the second paragraph is particularly worrying , his comments re KD etc, slagging off lowe

 

After all it was lowe that took him to SMS. Given lowes ability to sue people for slander etc and succeed then I would have thought JP would have been subject to a compromise agreement as part of his severence package.

and certainly not spouting off the way he is.

 

If it is JP then he is certainly acting like a spoil brat and will have done himself no favours in going back into football management.

[dubai_phil]

Wow fantastic, we already have nearly 4 pages on this

[Viking Warrior]

I hadnt realised that Phil. but as you have reminded me there are four pages, I will not exercise my keyboard skills looking for the other three pages.

 

Its time to move on , The futures bright the futures red and white

 

Oh and have we signed Skacel yet? or is that on another thread:cool:

[saint_stevo]

Wow fantastic, we already have nearly 4 pages on this

 

I couldnt see it.......

[ART]

I don't believe that he was glad that Saints were relegated, more that Wotte failed to save us. I believe he thinks he could have saved us from relegation and that Wotte got his just desserts. I believe that Jan was an excellent coach but not made out for management, especially in this country. He was backstabbed and sold down the river from day one. I never liked Wotte and even during the close season he was a conniving, calculating chancer. Give me Jan any day and Steve Coppel doesn't say he considers him one of the top coaches for nothing. He was a top coach and the youngsters did play attractive football.

[benjii]

I don't believe that he was glad that Saints were relegated, more that Wotte failed to save us. I believe he thinks he could have saved us from relegation and that Wotte got his just desserts. I believe that Jan was an excellent coach but not made out for management, especially in this country. He was backstabbed and sold down the river from day one. I never liked Wotte and even during the close season he was a conniving, calculating chancer. Give me Jan any day and Steve Coppel doesn't say he considers him one of the top coaches for nothing. He was a top coach and the youngsters did play attractive football.

 

I agree with that.

 

Good coach, useless manager.

 

Shafted by the biggest piece of **** to ever darken the doorstep of SFC.

[sotonjoe]

repost

[Psycrow]

"Very sorry for the club, but I was glad they went down. I felt screwed by Wotte, that he was relegated gave me peace. Under his command the team started to play kick and rush again. He replaced the promising youngsters with veteran players. The transfer value of the players that had carefully gone up during the season were now minimized again. He demolished all my work and I find that quite painful."

 

Whilst there's a lot of interesting points in there, I do not like JP for these reasons. Wanting a club to go down to spite one man? Thinking that playing pretty ineffective football whilst trying to sell your best players is more important than doing whatever it takes to stay up?

Him and Lowe were made for each other.

 

Remember it was translated from (presumably) Dutch, this mightn't be exactly what he said. I reckon the second point in bold above was probably what came across best in the original language

[oxfordshire_saint]

Whatever happened last season, I will treasure the memory of us taking a huge following to the Madejski and turning over the in-form Reading on their own patch.

 

Cheers Jan!

[Viking Warrior]

I also liked JP

 

and the younsgters did play some superb football but were a bit niave.

 

Who can forget the game at reading , we played them off the park and they were riding high in the league at the time.

[S-Clarke]

I also liked JP

 

and the younsgters did play some superb football but were a bit niave.

 

Who can forget the game at reading , we played them off the park and they were riding high in the league at the time.

 

and derby away, that was an awesome performance

 

we took the **** out of them at times...but derby were v poor.

[Deanovski]

yawn ..

[shurlock]

There were some good times -we outplayed Wolves and Brum for long periods; we had Reading and Derby chasing shadows; there was the comeback against Preston and we created chances galore. It was let down by alot of naievity - how many goals did we throw away in the last 5 mins (Reading, Sheff Wed, Cardiff etc)? How did we not bury those pens against Watford? Why did he think Lancashire could do a job? Why didn't he combine youth with more experience instead of bringing in one youngster on loan after another.

 

Still, I would like to know what JP did to get the best out of Lallana etc and make us play a bit of football. Some of that wouldnt go amiss now.

[master]

He's a ****, end of.

Seems like he was always looking to point the finger elsewhere when really he was at fault. Yeah we all know Lowe was an interfering tosspot but he was only to a certain extent.

[Wes Tender]

Whether the football was superb on occasion is a total irrelevance. It didn't take long for our rival to suss out how one dimensional we were and they just let us play the ball around until the final third where we played a lone young striker, took the ball off us and scored on the break.

 

Ultimately, if the football was truly any good, we wouldn't have been relegated.

 

Thank God that the two Dutch incompetents are gone, along with the nutter who brought them here. In a few years when we are back in the promised land, we might be able to have a good laugh at the whole sorry episode.

[eelpie]

There were some good times -we outplayed Wolves and Brum for long periods; we had Reading and Derby chasing shadows; there was the comeback against Preston and we created chances galore. It was let down by alot of naievity - how many goals did we throw away in the last 5 mins (Reading, Sheff Wed, Cardiff etc)? How did we not bury those pens against Watford? Why did he think Lancashire could do a job? Why didn't he combine youth with more experience instead of bringing in one youngster on loan after another.

 

Still, I would like to know what JP did to get the best out of Lallana etc and make us play a bit of football. Some of that wouldnt go amiss now.

 

It will be interesting to compare the best of his teams with the best of Pards. Just think what JP might have achieved with AP's recent signings. For his teams certainly did play mouth watering football at times. Just couldn't score. Same like now 'xcept we are playing **** football now.

[Redondo Saint]

So did JP really move jobs and country without having a thorough look at his contract?

What a dope.

 

I don't blame RL for making him cover any moving costs - this is good business and something any chairman would do. I am sure JP had all sorts of bonuses based on results knowing how RL works. The fact he didn't get many good results now reflects his financial position.

 

How many people on here would be glad he walked away with a huge wedge?

 

He shouldn't have had the job in the first place - this was RL's error.

[DT]

Rupert lowe was always moaning about how KD couldn't handle a football, eh? Sounds like me! Maybe he wasn't quite so clueless! Portvliet, however, sounds like a bit of a goon here. I reckon the wotte stuff rings true though.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

all sounds very weird and atmosphere must have been terrible. no doubt the players were effected.

 

Lowe is a strange guy - lets hope he keeps away from football now and doesnt let lightning strike twice

 

Unless, of course, he's the mystery man with Jackanory Storrie in the Poopey takeover!

[saint_bert]

Lowe got nervous and started saying our GK couldn't handle the ball properly

 

Says it all really

[saint_mears]

Sums up Lowe and how HE created another relegation.

[miserableoldgit]

sound ike somebody has distorted the facts of what he actually said.

 

Im not sure this is a factually correct article but altered by someone on here that despises lowe

 

I was interested in this comment "The past few years there have been a lot of people in control and they still have influence in the current organisation.

 

But than I see who posted this.none other than tic tacs mate Saint Stevo

 

Heres a tip for you Mr I am the perfect saints fan (***t), Sant Stevo let it go mate we are in a new era now stop living inthe past FFS

 

But if the interview was recent it`s hardly living in the past is it and it is Saints related isn`t it? I actually found it interesting, if accurately reported.

[Topcat]

JP is a very naive business manager. He trusted Lowe. He agreed to a job without the contract details being sorted out.

 

Above all else he thought he was a better coach than he really is.

[SaintRobbie]

Sums up Lowe and how HE created another relegation.

 

Yes it does. All the old traits come out in a year of disaster all over again don't they? Thank goodness he's gone forever. Once the final clear out of his poor players is complete this club gets back to successful times.

[glkdcdes]

So did JP really move jobs and country without having a thorough look at his contract?

What a dope.

 

I don't blame RL for making him cover any moving costs - this is good business and something any chairman would do. I am sure JP had all sorts of bonuses based on results knowing how RL works. The fact he didn't get many good results now reflects his financial position.

 

How many people on here would be glad he walked away with a huge wedge?

 

He shouldn't have had the job in the first place - this was RL's error.

 

your right it was lowes error, one of numerous errors the pompous ..... made. Do you have no awareness of the fact his errors have had so much effect on other peoples lives.

 

Lowes ok, after all nothing in his mind was his fault so hes happy in the putrid little bubble he lives in................

[CB Fry]

Poor JP, he was taken for a ride big time.

 

The bit about lowe wanting to talk football in the directors box with wotte while JP was in the dug out would give wotte the perfect opportunity to undermine JP.

 

Glad its all over, just need to win games now!

 

Someone who says they didn't realise the standard of the league they had taken a job in has not been taken for a ride. Especially when that league is the fifth most popular league in Europe. Ignorance is not an adequate defence and Jan is clearly an idiot.

[ottery st mary]

We had idiots run by idiots....It was a shambles everytime Rupes got in the chair.

The man had no idea and nor did the peeps he put in charge of the team....Wotte was a snake and had less idea than Rupes or JP. and FOR pHIL dE wHALE..wHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON...About time someone told the truth about this farce......Have we moved on yet....Let these idiots be a lesson to us.....How Rupes was allowed to get away with the mess he organised.....Muppets supporting him ....

 

COYRs...Onwards and upwards...eventually.....Rupert good riddance. Sorry.JP and Wotte..

you'll never make it in football coaching/management

[VectisSaint]

I'd say that he's justified in feeling that way. He wasn't born in Southampton, all he's got is 12 months wages.

Read the article again and you'll see that he hasn't even got that, he actually lost money. As I always referred to him, Nice but Dim, and now I'm not even sure about Nice.

[alpine_saint]

So many of our greatest fears about what was going on has been confirmed by this interview.

 

I feel sorry for JP; he was screwed by Lowe from the very beginning...

[miserableoldgit]

So many of our greatest fears about what was going on has been confirmed by this interview.

 

I feel sorry for JP; he was screwed by Lowe from the very beginning...

He was doing that as well???:shock:

[SaintRichmond]

Nothing in the article is any surprise. The only thing its clarified in my mind is how lucky Pearson was to get out.

Feel sorry for the man,[J.P] he was well and truely screwed by Lowe. I wonder if Lowe can sleep at night? Any way , all in the past now so onwards and upwards, as they say......

 

..... If Lowe decides to take Poortvliet to Court over his revelations ...... do you think his Lawyers will "Go Dutch" ......

[Saint Fan CaM]

I come across very poor CEO's in my line of work and Lowe fits the bill hand in glove. He had no idea how to properly manage a modern multi-million £ business with so many staff, let alone a football club.

 

Portvliet sounds like a typical "victim" in that interview - he self-perpetuated this character attribute while with SFC. And that also made him a loser too unfortunately. I think he lost the plot under Lowe while Lowe groomed Wotte, but of course its clear Lowe also did not empower JP or support him with the tools to do the job at hand (other than to big-up and sell the youth).

 

Wotte is your typical snake-in-the-grass opportunist. Cuddles up to the CEO and tells him all the things he wants to hear. He waits for his boss to fail - waits in the shadows and does nothing to support the business - then steps up to the plate to receive his chance. He has typical "bully" character attributes. The problem with these people is they tend to be all mouth and no substance - the THINK they have the nouse to sort things out, but when the chips are down they're actually no better and sometimes worse.

 

Oh yes, Lowe ran a VERY disfunctional ship. And he has nobody else to blame except himself. JP and Wotte were just the pawns. The one question I cannot reconcile is, why the hell are some of the old Directors still in situ???

[Frank's cousin]

Certainly raised a few eyebrows - For me it highlights one of the biggest problems/paradoxs in football. That of style v results, or entertainment v success. It was clear to most that the early periods of decent football were never going to be maintained by youngsters as the results started to ebb away at confidence. The presure the kids and JP were under to get results versus the desire to play a passing game in a league that providess no rewards for entertainment - only the end result.

 

YES Lowe carries the can for the appointment and ultimately the failure of the approach. Whether this decsion was based purely on finance or based on his desire to follow the commercial model so successful at Ajax ( a conveyor belt of talent that can be sold to help fund the first team and the next generation) or a combination of both its frankly irrelevent as it did not work, but from a purists perspective, the idea of watching a young exciting team of mostly home grown talent is far more appealing than TBH what we saw at Swindon and what we are likely to see for the most part this season.

 

I have no problem with being a 'lower league' side, never had that 'Freudian' need be associated with a so called 'big' club, and I would argue that for most fans the things we remember most are those moments of pure footballing genius, when it just works - from Channon v Liverpool to the magic of Le Tiss's goals, so I wanted the whole passing 'dutch thing' to work not as some endorsement of Lowe's decision (although thats is always how these things are perceived) but because I feel its the right way to play the game.

 

So much bull is spread about about teams 'playing to their strengths' justifying stiffling boring agressive tactics because coaches and managers know know different and are either too ignorant of anything else or believe its teh only option to get RESULTS - that big bogeyman intensified through the desperation to secure ever greater financial rewards. The ART of coaching and getting a bunch of average players to pass teh ball and be better than the sum of their parts is discouraged as it takes longer and endangers club status within the division.

 

It may sound like romantic dillusional bollo x, but when you consider that we pay to be 'entertained' and no one forces us to support a club, should our pride not be elevated by supporting a club that desires to stand against the tide of mediocrity and put style and entertainment first even if it means a low points tally whilst the system is being developed? Eachto their own I guess, but I just think its a shame that we are so quickly dismissive of someone who 'lacked CCC Experience' and was 'clueless of the ENGLISH' game' because either the results were crap or in some cases no doubt because of who appointed him... mY point is that comentators can come out with as much rhetoric as they like about how the prem is the best league in the world or that the depth of the game is second to none in England, but the quality below the few elite clubs is distinctly average and often miserable in style. Survival and maintaining revenue has become far more important than playing a style that captures the imagination of fans.

 

When will be more appreciative of those that coach a game that is pleasing on the eye rather than coach to minimise defeat as we so so often with away sides - especially in the prem?

 

Idealistic for sure, naive? nope because I fully understand tehcommercial drivers behind this, but it does not make it any more paletable.