verlaine1979 Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 How can we compete? Over 10, 20 years or more? Rather than everyone explaining how stupid we all are, does anyone have any views on how clubs, saints or otherwise, can improve and compete eventually? I know logic and football supporting don't go hand in hand, but surely some hope is required that clubs can grow, otherwise what's the point? Do all football fans that don't support the top 5 or 6 just accept that the most successful clubs in the first century of football will always be in charge? We can't compete, no one can these days without the assistance of an owner prepared to sink hundreds of millions into the playing squad. Then again, that's been the case pretty much since the advent of the Premier League - when was the last time a club won the premier league (or equivalent) without either being an historically huge club (i.e. previously being a Champion of Europe) or the sudden appearance of an owner prepared to radically outspend everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 The players let us down as much as the manager in that match. Disagree with that. MP set the tone with his selections even if Rickie missed a sitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 We can't compete, no one can these days without the assistance of an owner prepared to sink hundreds of millions into the playing squad. Then again, that's been the case pretty much since the advent of the Premier League - when was the last time a club won the premier league (or equivalent) without either being an historically huge club (i.e. previously being a Champion of Europe) or the sudden appearance of an owner prepared to radically outspend everyone else? People keep on about the prem But in the 20-odd years before the prem, almost the same amour of different clubs won England's major honours as what has happened since the prem started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Disagree with that. MP set the tone with his selections even if Rickie missed a sitter. Fair enough, agree to disagree then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 No, I'm not over simplifying it as it's very simple to begin with. If the manager or players choose to leave for some of the biggest clubs in world football it in no way at all shows a lack of ambition from the board. We simply cannot compete with the glamour, kudos, money and potential of them and only a fool thinks we can or tries to compete. The rest of your post is simply your opinion on how players feel which you know no better than I. No...what you do is create an environment where the players fancy their chances of success at the club they're already comfortable with and don't see moving as a necessity....Kinda like what Nasty Nick did during his time at Saints. A self fulfilling prophesy if you like. But having spent most your life blinded by bitter hatred for one thing or another, I wouldn't expect you to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Disagree with that. MP set the tone with his selections even if Rickie missed a sitter. Fair enough, agree to disagree then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoPints Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Has he signed yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Fair enough, agree to disagree then. I disagree with you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 No...what you do is create an environment where the players fancy their chances of success at the club they're already comfortable with and don't see moving as a necessity....Kinda like what Nasty Nick did during his time at Saints. A self fulfilling prophesy if you like. But having spent most your life blinded by bitter hatred for one thing or another, I wouldn't expect you to see that. What like Alex Oxlade-Chamberlin? The truth is no-one was paying that much attention to our players until this season it was pretty easy for Nasty Nick to hold on to our players when few real offers ever materialized. This season created a whole new ball game for saints one Nicky never had to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 People keep on about the prem But in the 20-odd years before the prem, almost the same amour of different clubs won England's major honours as what has happened since the prem started Indeed they did - Derby County; Nottingham Forest; Liverpool; Everton; Leeds United - all outstandingly successsful in the Premiership years with their 0? Premiership titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Indeed they did - Derby County; Nottingham Forest; Liverpool; Everton; Leeds United - all outstandingly successsful in the Premiership years with their 0? Premiership titles. How did Wigan and Swansea get on in the 80's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 No...what you do is create an environment where the players fancy their chances of success at the club they're already comfortable with and don't see moving as a necessity....Kinda like what Nasty Nick did during his time at Saints. A self fulfilling prophesy if you like. But having spent most your life blinded by bitter hatred for one thing or another, I wouldn't expect you to see that. What do you think would be happening over the next couple of years if "Nasty Nic" was still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 That's the point which I think people are missing. Absolutely no reason at all for someone like Cork to be left in limbo and signs like that don't bode well. We are lucky that our big players are all on good contracts, at least that's one thing. It's a disgrace that Cork hasn't been offered a new deal yet. We'd be a worse team if he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manji Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Which is quite interesting because MP let us down big time at Sunderland in the cup. Has everyone forgotten that? Impossible to with whingers going on about it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 People keep on about the prem But in the 20-odd years before the prem, almost the same amount of different clubs won England's major honours as what has happened since the prem started After the start of the premier league, the only clubs to win the title without having a minimum of 8 league titles already in the bag were Blackburn, Chelsea & Man City, and I don't really need to labour the point about what those three clubs had in common at the time of their rise to dominance. Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you, looking back at league winners and runners up you have to go back to the late 60s and early 70s to find names that aren't still there or there-abouts at the top of the league. All I'm saying is that it's become even more expensive to break into the clique, to the point where in a couple of years you'll probably need to be backed by a sovereign wealth fund from an oil-rich state to compete in the CL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 What do you think would be happening over the next couple of years if "Nasty Nic" was still here? What does it matter? Your crystal ball says one thing, his will say another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 If MP was expecting 100mil investment to 'push on' and buy big names on big contracts, I would agree with you. However, looks pretty clear that this is about assurances that we keep players - SOMETHING WE CAN AFFORD from our normal Turnover, but needs the board to ensure they dont just want to capitalise player assets. You are over simplifying it - We DO NOT need to let these players or MP go from a financial perspective. I odnt believe those players would push for a move but are open to it... so it IS down to teh bboard whether they want to cash in - but if they do so they are a) likely to see others want to go including MP, b) see a squad which has not yet peaked and is fiull of potential, never realise it, and c) not see any progress, if anything may even see us struggle. One of teh biggest contributers to our progress and success has been the stabilty, not wholesale changes in playing staff... something w eswould see this summer if half the side is poached... and that always spells a struggle... WE CAN AFFORD to pay Lallana and Shaw £100k a week on five year contracts can we? And WE CAN AFFORD to then peg other players salaries to that benchmark, including the inevitable request from a new £15m centre forward to be paid as much as the 19 year old left back. I'm glad you put WE CAN AFFORD it in capitals, otherwise I'd think you were talking utter s hi t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 What does it matter? Your crystal ball says one thing, his will say another. Because his suggestion is things would some how be different if NC was still here, I'm simply asking how and why. I'm sure it's an easy enough question for him to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 (edited) Because his suggestion is things would some how be different if NC was still here, I'm simply asking how and why. I'm sure it's an easy enough question for him to answer. He'd probably tell the players that they are not for sale. These players are not going on strike are they, they shouldn't have signed a 5 year contract a year ago if they have plans to do so. Edited 13 May, 2014 by Dig Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 (edited) What do you think would be happening over the next couple of years if "Nasty Nic" was still here? What about your 'vision' you set out a few months ago when discussing our realistic targets for the summer window. Keeping as much of the squad together, selling Osvaldo and possibly Ramirez and pooling those proceeds with a kitty of £20m or so. At the time, you didn't think it was unrealistic. Have no doubt that some players will want to leave -though none are begging to leave- but I think it could be managed in a way that avoids any snowball effect. With a more explicit plan, I also think we could keep hold the likes of Shaw for another couple of seasons. Despite their desire to see Shaw play for them, the united mongboards are pretty clear why the lad might want to stay for a little longer. The same goes for the other players under 25. Lallana's the exception as he's reaching an age where it's increasingly now or never. However time is on the side of the rest of the squad. Who knows with incremental improvement each season, perhaps by the time the others reach the crossroads Lallana has, we might be a more attractive proposition -maybe not for the world beaters like Shaw but players of the calibre of Lovren/Morgan etc. Edited 13 May, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 What happened to the rumours he signed at the weekend . Were they just red flag events ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 What happened to the rumours he signed at the weekend . Were they just red flag events ? Probably just another happy clap fest. He's probably holding out for some serious squad improvement, certainly if there are outgoings. Managers do do this, Remi Garde has just quit on Lyon because he was just fed up with having to try to make silk purses out of sows ears. That's a club who sell anything that's saleable and try to fill the gaps with their "academy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Heard today from someone reliable, ie they got the info from the club that poch has signed a long term deal. Unfortunately the flip side is the deals are done for Shaw to United and lallana to Liverpool, expect announcements before the England team meet up at the weekend. That's all I've been told, I'm assuming the funds are being made available to poch if he's signed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Heard today from someone reliable, ie they got the info from the club that poch has signed a long term deal. Unfortunately the flip side is the deals are done for Shaw to United and lallana to Liverpool, expect announcements before the England team meet up at the weekend. That's all I've been told, I'm assuming the funds are being made available to poch if he's signed up. It's all just made up bollax probably. If Mauricio had signed on the club would announce it, if deals have been agreed for players their agents would be trumpeting it to the press. No-one who's saying owt knows anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Hope so, but they were pretty adamant it's actually already happened. Hopefully be proved wrong, but going to be an interesting week ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Heard today from someone reliable, ie they got the info from the club that poch has signed a long term deal. Unfortunately the flip side is the deals are done for Shaw to United and lallana to Liverpool, expect announcements before the England team meet up at the weekend. That's all I've been told, I'm assuming the funds are being made available to poch if he's signed up. That wouldn't be an end of the world scenario IMO. Poch stays with a c.£50m kitty to spend. Yep, I could live with that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 That wouldn't be an end of the world scenario IMO. Poch stays with a c.£50m kitty to spend. Yep, I could live with that.... I kind've agree but would have this feeling we've been done on Lallana's fee. Selling prior to a world cup, and Utd literally frothing at the mouth to sign players.... We should've thoroughly rinsed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I kind've agree but would have this feeling we've been done on Lallana's fee. Selling prior to a world cup, and Utd literally frothing at the mouth to sign players.... We should've thoroughly rinsed them. OMG, that's some scoop you've got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Pretty darn sure he hasn't signed a new contract, for a start, he has a year left on old one! The key is whether the ambition of board matches Poch's, as it stands it doesn't from what I hear! TBF if the club has decided to run the club within its means for a stable future etc, Poch will more than likely leave because his ambitions wouldn't be fulfilled. That's not to say that we couldn't then bring in a young manager who signs up to new project whatever scale it is on, who then does what it takes for us to survive in Prem. Feel weirdly pragmatic as I think Poch has done a great job, but think the board have their own survival strategy. It is KL's money and NC was very brazen with it, she took control. Bottom line is, I will still support Saints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 i have decided now, if Man Utd are dumb enough to bid £30m+ for a left back then I will accept it. Liverpool can go suck it tho! I'm not selling Lallana cos he's too difficult to replace. I will tell Ponch he's got to stay also even if he don't want to sign new contract. He has got thickest hair in prem league and that is v.important to me. Can someone let Katharina know bout this pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Ash did you hear that from wage Garrett by any chance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 He'd probably tell the players that they are not for sale. These players are not going on strike are they, they shouldn't have signed a 5 year contract a year ago if they have plans to do so. Awww. That is quite sweet really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Ash did you hear that from wage Garrett by any chance ? No, they work at saints as well as other places but that's it, I very much doubt they are aware of this forum, definitely wouldn't post on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 No, they work at saints as well as other places but that's it, I very much doubt they are aware of this forum, definitely wouldn't post on here. I trust them more already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Can't wait for Friday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 As it's the weekend again but what will I have todo to keep myself occupied now the season has ended ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneysaint17 Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 If Poch stays, Im not worried at all - means he's happy with how we'll reinvest/spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csh398 Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I've heard, a while ago admittedly, that MP will sign a new deal, Lallana will stay, Shaw is happy to stay (but parents agitating for him to move) and Schneiderlin is keen to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 If poch goes it's the translator I feel most sorry for, will he get a new gig with mopo or will he back to teach mere plebs english. Hope Tottenham get what they deserve and have a **** **** season, they are utter mugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 What the FCK are some people on? We have to run the club within the boundaries of what is affordable. If MP wants us to spend what we haven't got, then he can **** off as far as I'm concerned. I'll drive him up the seven sisters road myself. Managers can't start hold a gun to the finance people's heads, he won't be able to do it at spurs and he shouldn't be able to do it to us.Have the past 10 years not taught us anything? For all we know Nicola was a Swiss Peter Risdale who was driving us over the edge of a cliff. If clubs like Aston Villa and Everton cut their cloth accordingly, why is it such a bad thing for us to be doing so? There will always be clubs come knocking for our players just as we pinched clyne and José from palace and jrod from Burnley. That unfortunately is a fact of footballing life and if people can't deal with it, they'll always be disappointed Excellent Post Extremely Realistic Players and Managers will come and go but Fans will be here for ever in my case 52 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Which is quite interesting because MP let us down big time at Sunderland in the cup. Has everyone forgotten that? Forgotten what ? It was a non event really, arguably yes he could've fielded a stronger team. But then Sunderland beat us twice, once with our full squads and one when both of us rang the changes. We arent going to know the reasons why, was it to challenge top 6 ? To prove to players to stay ? Was it because Poch hated cups ? Regardless he is a very very able manager that we'd find hard to replace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 If MP gets an offer and decides to go, why would that be such a huge failure from the board. They obviously want to keep him, it'd be his choice to leave. It depends where he goes, between us or spurs I reckon its as simple as us offering ambition and guarantees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I've heard, a while ago admittedly, that MP will sign a new deal, Lallana will stay, Shaw is happy to stay (but parents agitating for him to move) and Schneiderlin is keen to leave. Thanks for the snippets of info. I see you don't post very often, and when you do its informative and pragmatic, which is usually a good sign that the info is of a decent pedigree. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Ash did you hear that from wage Garrett by any chance ? My source said only Lallana was going. From inside the club, but as I said, I'm not 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I can only refer you to some of Ranieri's interviews in French for Monaco, they were excruciatingly bad and in the end journalists got the better of him. There's nothing more savage than a journalist twisting an error of phrase or grammar into what he thinks (or wants) to be true. Because what we most definitely wouldn't want to happen would be people redwing into what he was saying, speculating as to what he might have meant and what he did or didn't say and also as to what his body language might infer. Thank god he only speaks in Spanish and none of that goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Have also heard that Poch is likely to stay. If he does, Shaw is more than happy to stay. Lallana at 26 is more likely to go. Nothing new from the others really, but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I love how people have "heard" so much. Seeing as its a 50/50 choice its an outlandish claim to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I love how people have "heard" so much. Seeing as its a 50/50 choice its an outlandish claim to make... Sounds like a poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Hang about I've just read Leicester's owners say they want to be in the top 5 and may spend 180m pounds to get there, surely got to be lip service for the local Bangkok papers or has he not heard of FFP. Every man and his dog wants to be top 5 nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Which is quite interesting because MP let us down big time at Sunderland in the cup. Has everyone forgotten that? He didn't do it for his enjoyment, he was making a point to the board IMO. If you recall he wanted to sign 2 players in Jan & they give him the raspberry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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