Turkish Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So he admitted we never received any offers for our players, so his 100% bid to sale ratio stands firm. Based on his record how can he claim the players would still be here if he was in charge given the fact that he's sold every player he's had a bid for? Lots of self promoting clap trap designed to unsettle the board and fan base. It's also proof if any were needed that the dwarf loved the limelight and the only best interest he had at heart are his, not the clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I have on open mind. What does that mean? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 The loss of Cortese could prove to be the turning point. The club were relentlessly improving under his watch. Since he departed the detractors have come out of the woodwork to try to re-write history. "Financially reckless" seems to be the favoured stick to beat down the ghost of Nicola, that or "only spent Leibherr's money". Cortese took c. £55m worth of investment and converted it into what, c. £150m worth of assets. He left the club with easily manageable, short term 'debts' that are tiny when compared to our direct competitors. He promoted a clear vision that bonded the players, making them reluctant to leave while the project was ongoing. He picked excellent managers. He renewed contracts in a timely and proactive fashion. Yes he "only spent Leibherr's money", that is exactly what a chairman does when given cash to spend by an owner. No idea why people see this as a negative. All in all, I find the current 'anti-Cortese' vibe somewhat baffling. I feel he was stubborn, and probably a bastard to be around, but he was a bastard who moved us in the right direction. Right now I'd be far, far happier were he back at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I have on open mind. Just want to hear what stories Hypo is certain and as a fact are made up by NC? I never said I knew precisely which exact ones, I said that some of them were which was my entire point. It doesn't matter which ones were, the point is that any were linked to destabilise clubs in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I never said I knew precisely which exact ones, I said that some of them were which was my entire point. It doesn't matter which ones were, the point is that any were linked to destabilise clubs in the first place. you are so certain. so which ones? unless you are just not really certain and just hold that opinion for no other reason than you just dont like the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 you are so certain. so which ones? unless you are just not really certain and just hold that opinion for no other reason than you just dont like the guy What are you on about? Are you suggesting that a number of journalists have just invented the idea that he has been leaking things to the press? Why would they do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 What are you on about? Are you suggesting that a number of journalists have just invented the idea that he has been leaking things to the press? Why would they do that? journo's say all sorts of things who knows what is true and what isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 What does that mean? What do you think? As usual its "Brett" sitting on the fence, not holding an opinion of his own but slamming every one elses. Typical Dulldrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 The loss of Cortese could prove to be the turning point. The club were relentlessly improving under his watch. Since he departed the detractors have come out of the woodwork to try to re-write history. "Financially reckless" seems to be the favoured stick to beat down the ghost of Nicola, that or "only spent Leibherr's money". Cortese took c. £55m worth of investment and converted it into what, c. £150m worth of assets. He left the club with easily manageable, short term 'debts' that are tiny when compared to our direct competitors. He promoted a clear vision that bonded the players, making them reluctant to leave while the project was ongoing. He picked excellent managers. He renewed contracts in a timely and proactive fashion. Yes he "only spent Leibherr's money", that is exactly what a chairman does when given cash to spend by an owner. No idea why people see this as a negative. All in all, I find the current 'anti-Cortese' vibe somewhat baffling. I feel he was stubborn, and probably a bastard to be around, but he was a bastard who moved us in the right direction. Right now I'd be far, far happier were he back at the helm. What grips my sh*t is that we walked away when the money tap was turned off. I don't, not nor a nano second, doubt all the great things he did for the club but he quit. Perhaps if he'd agreed to work on a new projest with the backing of KL, instead of just insisting his was the only way, then we wouldn't be in the unstable position we find ourselves in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 why is the money tap all of a sudden off? was it ever on? I have been away this year, where has all this come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Spending some elses fortune. Dont all CEO's in the private sector and heads of departments in the Public sector use other peoples money? I would rather have an NC dealing with my cash than the majority of public sector and private people. He saw an opportunity. put it to ML who saw the asset. It is amusing how quickly so many are turning on him. To a lot of people he has helped have 5 good years of supporting our team, to now turn on him whilst being hypocritical how we enjoyed the fruits is pretty sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Ralph Kreuger has said that none of our top players will be sold, are you a believer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 What grips my sh*t is that we walked away when the money tap was turned off. I don't, not nor a nano second, doubt all the great things he did for the club but he quit. Perhaps if he'd agreed to work on a new projest with the backing of KL, instead of just insisting his was the only way, then we wouldn't be in the unstable position we find ourselves in now. Did he quit? i thought he was pushed, perhaps a bit of both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 If we sell 9 players this summer then I will accept that all the reports are true and that none have been planted with the frequency they have been to destabilise the club. This keeps getting trotted out unchallenged. Who are you talking about? Who is trying to destabilise the club and to what end? Other teams, agents? Are you suggesting Cortese and his so-called PR team are behind this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Ralph Kreuger has said that none of our top players will be sold, are you a believer? and people thought NC talked shyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Ralph Kreuger has said that none of our top players will be sold, are you a believer?when did he say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 when did he say that? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27058403 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 'Would he ever go back? "Never." ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 The loss of Cortese could prove to be the turning point. The club were relentlessly improving under his watch. Since he departed the detractors have come out of the woodwork to try to re-write history. "Financially reckless" seems to be the favoured stick to beat down the ghost of Nicola, that or "only spent Leibherr's money". Cortese took c. £55m worth of investment and converted it into what, c. £150m worth of assets. He left the club with easily manageable, short term 'debts' that are tiny when compared to our direct competitors. He promoted a clear vision that bonded the players, making them reluctant to leave while the project was ongoing. He picked excellent managers. He renewed contracts in a timely and proactive fashion. Yes he "only spent Leibherr's money", that is exactly what a chairman does when given cash to spend by an owner. No idea why people see this as a negative. All in all, I find the current 'anti-Cortese' vibe somewhat baffling. I feel he was stubborn, and probably a bastard to be around, but he was a bastard who moved us in the right direction. Right now I'd be far, far happier were he back at the helm. Cortese did a good job but I think the only really important issue is the funding from KL. It looks like Cortese left because KL didn't want to fund a Champions League dream, if the owner doesn't want to waste millions chasing a dream that is totally up to her. Our current chairman could be just as good or better than Cortese but it is irrelevant if the money isn't there to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 What grips my sh*t is that we walked away when the money tap was turned off. I don't, not nor a nano second, doubt all the great things he did for the club but he quit. Perhaps if he'd agreed to work on a new projest with the backing of KL, instead of just insisting his was the only way, then we wouldn't be in the unstable position we find ourselves in now. Have we ever confirmed whether Cortese walked or was pushed? I can't see him having walked just because the tap was being turned off. I can, however, see him threatening to walk if the cash were turned off, and then having his bluff called by KL having to decide whether to back-down, or walk. From what we know of Cortese, he'd probably have never considered the former. All I know is that right now we'd almost certainly be in a much better state with the Don than we are without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 why is the money tap all of a sudden off? was it ever on? I have been away this year, where has all this come from? Well I did suggest that the owner has run out of spending money, got heartily slagged off for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 This keeps getting trotted out unchallenged. Who are you talking about? Who is trying to destabilise the club and to what end? Other teams, agents? Are you suggesting Cortese and his so-called PR team are behind this? Yes. By leaking stories and releasing this piece today he is destabilising the club and making himself look better by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 journo's say all sorts of things who knows what is true and what isnt OK Brett whatever you say . Being deliberately obtuse to prolong an argument is asinine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 OK Brett whatever you say . Being deliberately obtuse to prolong an argument is asinine im not the one stating something as 'FACT' without actually pointing out any facts. I think there is an element of what you say, but destabilising? umm, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27058403 He didn't say none of our top players will be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 im not the one stating something as 'FACT' without actually pointing out any facts. I think there is an element of what you say, but destabilising? umm, no So you believe that these newspaper articles and numerous pieces about all our players leaving have not had a destabilising effect? I don't think it could have helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 So you believe that these newspaper articles have not had a destabilising effect? I don't think it could have helped! i think they have gone to him for a few lines to back up their stories. He clearly has an idea what is going on, as would anyone at that level just after leaving. however, it is not beyond this crazy world of football that after a brilliant season with so many great players that they get linked away. Much like good players get linked to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 He didn't say none of our top players will be sold. "Southampton's new chairman says that key players will not be sold to pay off club debts" whats that in your language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Ralph Kreuger has said that none of our top players will be sold, are you a believer? No he didn't, he said no-one would be sold that the manager wants to keep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 "Southampton's new chairman says that key players will not be sold to pay off club debts" whats that in your language? So he doesn't say they won't be sold then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Yet despite all of that we have some how ended up with at least 4-5 players by my count who would be wanted by Champions League sides today where he haven't had to spend anywhere near the sums you are mentioning. We have obviously been doing plenty right. I'm not disputing that we have done plenty right. Far from it. My point is despite doing plenty right we still finished 23 points behind the top 4. That is a huge gap to fill if the ambition is Champions League football. Inevitably, when a club has a season like that then bigger clubs become interested in your players and regardless of what NC says I find it impossible to believe that every player that attracts attention from the biggest clubs will simply say 'you know what, Nicola is right, I can achieve my ambitions here' Sadly, out of those 'at least' 4-5 players that attract the attention of big clubs, I would say that at least half would want to leave and maybe more because we cannot a) provide immediate access to trophy winning potential, and b) match the insane wages that come with playing for the big clubs. I would be astonished, but delighted, if AL and LS stay at Saints given the interest in them, even if MP stays at the club. Unfortunately, I doubt they will though. Just have a look at the Premier League sides that have won the Champions League or won the Premier League and then tell me if those sides have not spent vast amounts (almost certainly beyond £200m net) to achieve those goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I'm not disputing that we have done plenty right. Far from it. My point is despite doing plenty right we still finished 23 points behind the top 4. That is a huge gap to fill if the ambition is Champions League football. Inevitably, when a club has a season like that then bigger clubs become interested in your players and regardless of what NC says I find it impossible to believe that every player that attracts attention from the biggest clubs will simply say 'you know what, Nicola is right, I can achieve my ambitions here' Sadly, out of those 'at least' 4-5 players that attract the attention of big clubs, I would say that at least half would want to leave and maybe more because we cannot a) provide immediate access to trophy winning potential, and b) match the insane wages that come with playing for the big clubs. I would be astonished, but delighted, if AL and LS stay at Saints given the interest in them, even if MP stays at the club. Unfortunately, I doubt they will though. Just have a look at the Premier League sides that have won the Champions League or won the Premier League and then tell me if those sides have not spent vast amounts (almost certainly beyond £200m net) to achieve those goals. Not disputing that those at the top have spent a lot to get there at all. I think the situation we find ourselves is quite unique. We have a number of international standard players who can and want to play in the Champions League and compete for titles. The gap between us and those above can be attributed to a lack of depth and having the likes of Gazza, Fox and Jos playing in runs of games, plus the dissapointment of Osvaldo. I don't think we need to spend a fortune on improving that as long as we try and keep what we have. Whilst we have these players here, I am sure we coukd give European qualification a decent crack like Everton did this year as long as we strengthened in the obvious places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Not disputing that those at the top have spent a lot to get there at all. I think the situation we find ourselves is quite unique. We have a number of international standard players who can and want to play in the Champions League and compete for titles. The gap between us and those above can be attributed to a lack of depth and having the likes of Gazza, Fox and Jos playing in runs of games, plus the dissapointment of Osvaldo. I don't think we need to spend a fortune on improving that as long as we try and keep what we have. Whilst we have these players here, I am sure we coukd give European qualification a decent crack like Everton did this year as long as we strengthened in the obvious places. but Poch said he doesn't want Europa league, all the talk is of the Champions League, so if we want to give the top 4 "decent crack" it will take a lot more than just holding on to players, it would need millions invested, and a huge increase in the wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 (edited) Edit: Moved the comment to Crab Lung' thread. Edited 21 May, 2014 by CanadaSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I can't see what all the fuss is about Cortese basically said that by selling off the "prize" assets, the Club would be sacrificing AMBITION So, it shouldn't be hard foe anyone with half a brain to realise that THAT was the reason why Cortese left He still had the Ambition to push on further It is painfully obvious surely that Katharina does NOT share that ambition, now that she has Honoured Markus's Five Year Plan I sincerely hope that Cortese manages to get some Mega Rich Middle East Magnates interested, because many of the Rose Tinted Brigade on here are in for a nasty shock very very soon IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I can't see what all the fuss is about Cortese basically said that by selling off the "prize" assets, the Club would be sacrificing AMBITION So, it shouldn't be hard foe anyone with half a brain to realise that THAT was the reason why Cortese left He still had the Ambition to push on further It is painfully obvious surely that Katharina does NOT share that ambition, now that she has Honoured Markus's Five Year Plan I sincerely hope that Cortese manages to get some Mega Rich Middle East Magnates interested, because many of the Rose Tinted Brigade on here are in for a nasty shock very very soon IMHO Yep. But never mind, we will still have our tradition, and hopefully our stripes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Just read the BBC article, and feel saddened. We've definitely lost somethng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I think the problem is that whilst accepting that we cannot compete with the biggest teams financially and concentrating on small gains, the sum of those small gains on the pitch is never going to bridge the huge gap required between them and a club of our size to make it into the Champions League. This is where Cortese's 'vision' fails dramatically. After all, people have largely accepted this season as being our best ever in the Premier League yet we are still a monstrous 23 points behind the 4th placed team. Do we believe that we could bridge that gap over the next couple of seasons by keeping all of our players and spending £30m per season? It is a lovely idea but is pure fantasy. Spurs lost their best player and spent £100m and didn't achieve it despite buying some players considered very good at the time of purchase. Who is to say we can spend better than them? At some point players like Shaw and Lallana would realise that the 'vision' is more of a dream and an unlikely reality so would go if they want to play for a club capable of challenging for premier league and european titles. Nicola Cortese can speak all he likes about trying to win the Premier League and making the Champions League as a by-product of that 'shoot for the stars' mentality but the reality is very different and I suspect he realised that and probably asked the owners to fund something more than was viable from operating a sustainable business model. Make no mistake, the only way a club of our size makes the Champions League or wins the Premier League is if the owner wants to splash sums of say £200-500m, maybe more, to have a tilt at it. Small gains on or off the pitch will never be enough to make it happen. Only serious money that the owner is willing to lose will and rarely is that available for a club of our stature. Personally, if players want to go then sell them for top dollar and reinvest that money in the playing squad by buying quality and not quantity. Keep producing the quality through the academy, it makes sense to do so. But lets be realistic and not believe Cortese when he says all players would have stayed had he been at the club. He would have had no say in that if the owner wanted to sell players and to be honest bar getting top dollar if the player wants to go he has little say either when a big club comes calling. And yet, the difference between us and Arsenal is 19 goals (less than that if you consider games where they've won by more than 1 goal)... That equates approximately to less than half a goal more per match. Also, Lovren, lallana, shaw, chambers, Morgan, Wanyama, osvaldo, ramirez, clyne are all wanted by champions league level teams... Reading that BBC article and comparing cortese to the new board, it is abundantly clear how every new board member is inferior to him in every way shape and form. The irony is that the new board is probably on at least as much as him as well. They are on the verge of destroying our golden chance to break into something else. Where are the deals and contracts etc etc that were said to be taking place immediately after the season ended? All we've seen is a blind organisation with ambition far below what we had previously and lacking in the nuance to implement even that without jeopardising the clubs potential. They are slowly undoing everything Cortese created, and Kruger's major concern from chatting to the fanbase is that, "we want stripes"... I frankly would be far happier if the team played in pink and yellow stripes next season if we kept hold of the manager and players for another season and made a few more additions. Instead we have this ridiculous and weak worded PR war where they have been more intent on appeasing the fans with empty words, signing a new sponsor who can't afford to pay more than the last (calling it a perfect match for our ambition ), failing utterly on the kit front, and declaring the club have financial troubles despite the complete absence of truth in that statement, just to get one over on Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Also, Lovren, lallana, shaw, chambers, Morgan, Wanyama, osvaldo, ramirez, clyne are all wanted by champions league level teams... You think Wanyama, Osvaldo, Ramirez Clyne and Chambers are being chased by Champons League teams? Which teams and for how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Just heard it over here on the World Service. Interesting that he still referred to Southampton throughout as 'we'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Just heard it over here on the World Service. Interesting that he still referred to Southampton throughout as 'we'. I thought that too. Still think he wants to come back, but unfortunately dont think it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Just read the BBC article, and feel saddened. We've definitely lost somethng. Yep, an ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 On 5live in a mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 You think Wanyama, Osvaldo, Ramirez Clyne and Chambers are being chased by Champons League teams? Which teams and for how much? There have been stories about Wanyama to City/Arsenal, Clyne to Chelsea/Arsenal and Chambers to Arsenal in the past year. Whether you believe them is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 There have been stories about Wanyama to City/Arsenal, Clyne to Chelsea/Arsenal and Chambers to Arsenal in the past year. Whether you believe them is something else. So no serious stories or speculation on any of those five as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 How did he propose keeping all the players together with no financial support from Katherina? And that is why he walked. Read between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Perhaps he is lining up a skate takeover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Seems totally reasonable to me. Fair play and thanks for what he contributed to getting us back in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 And that is why he walked. Read between the lines. So really his statement that if he was here the players would not be leaving is rubbish then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Yep, an ego. So what ? So what if it was a vanity project for him ? He brought us 5 years of unrivalled success in our clubs history. Its downhill from here. Anyone who dismisses his success is a prize tw*t. Other clubs have had owners come in and sploshed the dosh and achieved a fraction of what he achieved. Yes, I described a period early last summer as being run like a seaside B & B, but at the end of the summer he delivered a team that surpassed our best ever previous PL performance. He delivered. This lot are doing jack sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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