Leicestersaint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I do not think Les reed comes out of any of this terribly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 IF (big if) we get Long and Hull get Welbeck then the club have officially gone mad. Looking forward to seeing the "name someone better" gang explain that one away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Looking forward to seeing the "name someone better" gang explain that one away. First, let's see if they can actually get Wellbeck. After all, he was not on the list of supposedly disposable MU players. If both Hernandez and Wellbeck move, isn't MU down to two strikers in a two striker formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Considering the only facts people on this thread were using to rusbbish Long was his goalscoring record, how does Welbeck's 12, 2, 10 goals and 29 goals in 139 appearances over the last three years stack up against Long's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Welbeck is far better than Long. Welbeck won't be going to Hull. Both of the above are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 First, let's see if they can actually get Wellbeck. Hull? let's assume they can't, it will save everyone time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Welbeck is far better than Long. Welbeck won't be going to Hull. Both of the above are true. Absolutely. But would show a complete balls up by SFC if it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all. You may have a good point but there is no way I am going through at 50 page slideshow at 2am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 24 hours ago, it was long or no one. no one else was available or would come here How much do you think Welbeck will be demanding in wages compared to Long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastadon Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all. Drmic moved to Leverkusen in May this year, so good luck with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all. Or google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I stopped posting on the football side of this forum as I was so angry with many of the posting I might have posted something out of character and not only lose credibility but also regret it after. However things have cooled now so I am back for occasional posts. I can understand the many expressions of disappointment on here but you need to take into account the reality of the situation we are in. We finished 8th, were being lauded as playing attractive effective football but with a wage limit. Suddenly we lose our drive and ambition when Cortese departed. A Manager who was also credited with the style and drive then left along with the best players that had got us to that level. If you were outside the club you would immediately think something was very wrong. The club may still be ambitious with their targets but such targets will likely say some thing along the lines of "if I am good enough and of the standard of those departing why would I want to go to that club if they cannot keep their players" So we then move down to the second choices and find most of them have options to go to other clubs who are more stable. So now we are at the level we are now. While we may not be as strong, collectively, as we were last season there are plenty of teams in the division with equal or worse squads. What I saw on Saturday suggests we can compete and the additions like Long will help. We need to stabilize, rebuild our reputation, expand our commercial arm and show the world we are club worth watching and playing for. We have done it before. I am sure the club will give it ago again. I was a "glass half empty" until I saw the team on Saturday. Now I am a "glass half full" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I stopped posting on the football side of this forum as I was so angry with many of the posting I might have posted something out of character and not only lose credibility but also regret it after. However things have cooled now so I am back for occasional posts. I can understand the many expressions of disappointment on here but you need to take into account the reality of the situation we are in. We finished 8th, were being lauded as playing attractive effective football but with a wage limit. Suddenly we lose our drive and ambition when Cortese departed. A Manager who was also credited with the style and drive then left along with the best players that had got us to that level. If you were outside the club you would immediately think something was very wrong. The club may still be ambitious with their targets but such targets will likely say some thing along the lines of "if I am good enough and of the standard of those departing why would I want to go to that club if they cannot keep their players" So we then move down to the second choices and find most of them have options to go to other clubs who are more stable. So now we are at the level we are now. While we may not be as strong, collectively, as we were last season there are plenty of teams in the division with equal or worse squads. What I saw on Saturday suggests we can compete and the additions like Long will help. We need to stabilize, rebuild our reputation, expand our commercial arm and show the world we are club worth watching and playing for. We have done it before. I am sure the club will give it ago again. I was a "glass half empty" until I saw the team on Saturday. Now I am a "glass half full" Good balanced post, welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all. What people continuously ignore here is that we have overpaid for premier league experience. By selling the entire team and all of our premiership experience, the board couldn't risk another foreign gamble - we have 1 already in Pelle, and obviously were burnt pretty badly by Osvaldo. We needed a striker who had played in the premier league and had done it before, although his goal tally doesn't excite, he has performed in the league we are in and offers much less of a risk in terms of him being a success. That almost instantly adds ££££ to his price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Drmic moved to Leverkusen in May this year, so good luck with that one. Yes, seen that damn unfortunate as his folks live in my hometown as well. Damn shame our agents don't have the nouse to use Google and see who the best performing strikers in Europe are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I stopped posting on the football side of this forum as I was so angry with many of the posting I might have posted something out of character and not only lose credibility but also regret it after. However things have cooled now so I am back for occasional posts. I can understand the many expressions of disappointment on here but you need to take into account the reality of the situation we are in. We finished 8th, were being lauded as playing attractive effective football but with a wage limit. Suddenly we lose our drive and ambition when Cortese departed. A Manager who was also credited with the style and drive then left along with the best players that had got us to that level. If you were outside the club you would immediately think something was very wrong. The club may still be ambitious with their targets but such targets will likely say some thing along the lines of "if I am good enough and of the standard of those departing why would I want to go to that club if they cannot keep their players" So we then move down to the second choices and find most of them have options to go to other clubs who are more stable. So now we are at the level we are now. While we may not be as strong, collectively, as we were last season there are plenty of teams in the division with equal or worse squads. What I saw on Saturday suggests we can compete and the additions like Long will help. We need to stabilize, rebuild our reputation, expand our commercial arm and show the world we are club worth watching and playing for. We have done it before. I am sure the club will give it ago again. I was a "glass half empty" until I saw the team on Saturday. Now I am a "glass half full" Well said Ron, sensible posts don't get accepted well here, but mirrored my thoughts very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 FWIW, I think Shane Long will turn out to be a cracking buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Hull spending £14m on welbeck. Ditch the long deal and get him in instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 FWIW, I think Shane Long will turn out to be a cracking buy Same, I think he's a perfect fit in terms of his attributes. Have to ignore the fee as it's way too much! But it adds depth and options up front for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Good player, shocking price. I'd rather we spent the money more wisely in January than pay £4m over the odds now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I think we should wait and see how we get on with our new players before writing the team off like a lot of you are doing. We are investing the funds we've received but we're not a champs league team and some of the players we've apparently approached want champs league football or/and wages. I think our buying window has been decent for a team of our stature and I for one am looking forward to the start of the season where everyone can whinge about the on field performance instead of the of field antics. I'd like to think if we wrap up Long and Gardos in the next 24 hours, with perhaps one more wide/attacking player before deadline, our buying period has been tremendous. Unfortunately our selling period has also been highly effective which is the big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 What people continuously ignore here is that we have overpaid for premier league experience. By selling the entire team and all of our premiership experience, the board couldn't risk another foreign gamble - we have 1 already in Pelle, and obviously were burnt pretty badly by Osvaldo. We needed a striker who had played in the premier league and had done it before, although his goal tally doesn't excite, he has performed in the league we are in and offers much less of a risk in terms of him being a success. That almost instantly adds ££££ to his price tag. I understand your point that we will be bent over for buying domestic players, I think the management team at SFC are a little more skeptical about the coming season than I am. They are playing safe with this transfer and buying 10 goals. I think we will get 53 goals with Long on board which is close to last season. I would have preferred to see us push for 60. Meh, we are where we are and if we don't play Gazza or Jos we shouldn't ship so many, hopefully conceed less than 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I understand your point that we will be bent over for buying domestic players, I think the management team at SFC are a little more skeptical about the coming season than I am. They are playing safe with this transfer and buying 10 goals. I think we will get 53 goals with Long on board which is close to last season. I would have preferred to see us push for 60. Meh, we are where we are and if we don't play Gazza or Jos we shouldn't ship so many, hopefully conceed less than 40. If you're right a goal difference of +13 could have seen us in 6th last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Good player, shocking price. I'd rather we spent the money more wisely in January than pay £4m over the odds now. Could be a bit late by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 (edited) Suddenly we lose our drive and ambition when Cortese departed How much of that "drive and ambition" was built on shallow foundations? (aka 'false hope') Welcome back btw Edited 14 August, 2014 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I think we should wait and see how we get on "Wait and see"? Before jumping to conclusions? On the SaintsWeb Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 How much of that "drive and ambition" was built on shallow foundations? Welcome back btw Agree, there was never going to be the money available. To reach the level he wished you needed to sprinkle the team with a few outstanding internationals at £100m per week wages. FFP and the owners would never have allowed that to become reality. We all knew that but I cannot understand how the players did not see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Welcome back Weston, always enjoyed your posts and insights about football...which is what this is all about at the end of the day! Glad to be heading back to the season where we can talk about tactics, shape....chances created etc. Not bloody money, finances and board issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Agree, there was never going to be the money available. To reach the level he wished you needed to sprinkle the team with a few outstanding internationals at £100m per week wages. FFP and the owners would never have allowed that to become reality. We all knew that but I cannot understand how the players did not see it. That's the crux for me too WS. The "drive and ambition" didn't really leave when Cortese left....it was actually impossible for that level of drive and ambition to ever be fulfilled in the first place....(in Cortese's timescales at least). I guess it all comes down to footballers not being the brightest breed in the world and hence being suckered in by Cortese's sales patter. I even started to believe some of it myself but always had my doubts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Welcome back Weston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbenny Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Cant remember another player who has dived opinion so much on this forum. 19 pages and counting dedicated to Shane Long...I never thought I would see the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Hull spending £14m on welbeck. Ditch the long deal and get him in instead We could probably get SRL back for 14 million ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 (edited) That's the crux for me too WS. The "drive and ambition" didn't really leave when Cortese left....it was actually impossible for that level of drive and ambition to ever be fulfilled in the first place....(in Cortese's timescales at least). I guess it all comes down to footballers not being the brightest breed in the world and hence being suckered in by Cortese's sales patter. I even started to believe some of it myself but always had my doubts... How much had we spent over previous summers - how many £100K pw players did we have on our wage bill? Players were under no illusions about what they were signing up to or the constraints we would be operating under - your daft, unprovable 'footballers aren't the brightest bunch" doesn't change the fact that they know what side their bread is buttered on. Edited 14 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynoldson!! Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I really like Shane Long! I think he will be a great fit. He doesn't have an exotic name but I guarantee he will cause teams problems. I agree the fee is a bit much, but it isn't my money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Is this actually happening or is it like the Romanian defender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 FWIW, I think Shane Long will turn out to be a cracking buy Same here but it fee makes me feel ill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Is this actually happening or is it like the Romanian defender? What do you want, minute by minute updates? Our interest was first broke 48 hours ago, I'd suggest this is well on the natural course to being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Hull spending £14m on welbeck. Ditch the long deal and get him in instead Are you serious? Have you ever seen Welbeck play? For info: Premier League Welbeck 116 games, 26 goals Long 146 games, 28 goals However, Long has played those games for West Brom, Hull, and Reading. I agree £12m is a lot but not when compared to £14m for Welbeck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Sorry, but Welbeck is better than Long. Plus, he barely ever has played up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I'd put good money on Long scoring twice as many goals playing for United as Welbeck has. Hopefully this one will be tied up soon, he's already been written off by most on here so has nothing to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Are you serious? Have you ever seen Welbeck play? For info: Premier League Welbeck 116 games, 26 goals Long 146 games, 28 goals However, Long has played those games for West Brom, Hull, and Reading. I agree £12m is a lot but not when compared to £14m for Welbeck. Welbeck earns 75k a week at United. I doubt Hull can/will offer him that and I'm pretty sure the same posters suggesting him now as a good signing wouldn't be saying the same if we paid 14 million for him and matched those wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 What do you want, minute by minute updates? Our interest was first broke 48 hours ago, I'd suggest this is well on the natural course to being done. No I'm just trying to work out which deals are real and which are not this seems no more concrete than the Romanian chap who at last count has had 6 medicals, it seems things might be getting a sticky a little early on the board lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Sorry, but Welbeck is better than Long. Plus, he barely ever has played up front. In your opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Is this actually happening or is it like the Romanian defender? Well, if you are to believe the sports hounds re: Hull doshing out £14m on Wellbeck then yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Bertrand comment already qualified as you well know so irrelevant. Have praised the club for signing Tadic this summer who looks promising and Forster too looks a good addition as long as we don't lose Boruc so trying to make out that I rubbish every signing or potential signing we make is utter bilge as per usual from you. Welbeck would be an excellent signing for us and someone I have wanted for a while. Your comments regarding Bertrand establish you as being somebody capable of opening your mouth before engaging your brain, so as you have previous, who is to know whether your comments on Long are your knee-jerk thoughts on him, or your carefully considered opinion? It really isn't for you to say whether any crass remarks you made are irrelevant in hindsight, as they are evidence of your scatter-gun opinions on players who have not yet kicked a ball for us. Suggesting that Welbeck would be a better signing than Long is all very well, but as Long is already overpriced apparently, Wellbeck is fine for a couple of million more, regardless of you not having the faintest idea of what his wage demands might be. Neither do you know whether he would be prepared to come here, any more than you know whether he would go to Hull. You don't even know whether we might not have made discrete enquiries over his availability and willingness to sign for us, so making comparisons between the two of them is the bilge unless Hull sign him for a comparable fee to Long's. Following on logically from that, any opinions about the mental state of the Club's management is churlish to say the least. No doubt you think that you could do a better job of it. Wellbeck, one of the most over-rated strikers to have played for England these past several years, the modern day equivalent of Heskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 (edited) I don't particularly rate Welbeck -at least in terms of being international class- but he is better than Long. His performance last season against us at SMS was Jrodesque and would have fitted very nicely into a front three with or without Jrod. Anyway, it's all academic - hull are unlikely to get him, though wonder if we would have stood a better chance. Probably not right now. Edited 14 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Sorry, but Welbeck is better than Long. Plus, he barely ever has played up front. We dont need anymore midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 I'd put good money on Long scoring twice as many goals playing for United as Welbeck has. Hopefully this one will be tied up soon, he's already been written off by most on here so has nothing to lose Don't make stuff up, it's probably 50/50, I'm quite happy to have him, I can't be bothered to dig it out but I would have had him in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 14 August, 2014 Share Posted 14 August, 2014 Welbeck is not leaving Man Utd so no point discussing which we would prefer out of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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