Greg Clarke - Racist or PC victim ?

[Weston Super Saint]

He's a fair dinkum, bona fide racist for sure.  He's slipped up a couple of times now and been caught out.  I imagine in private he's still referring to the 'coloureds' as 'mud people'.  

I can't imagine an institution like the FA is going to replace him with anyone significantly different to him though....

[Wes Tender]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Do you not know how to use Google?

Here you go. If you need any help with the big words let me know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54888197

The BBC, not exactly the best ones to provide an explanation of what is wrong with the terminology used by Greg Clarke, as demonstrated by their stupid warning about the content.

And you're becoming quite adept at patronising posters whose opinions don't agree with yours, aren't you?

[Saint_Jonny]

Fortunately the baby boomers of Saints Web don't get to decide what is offensive to a specific group of people. 

Clarke used a bunch of archaic terms and has been rightly put back in his box. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I wasn't outraged, I was just asking the question. But this time you have used it deliberately, without the slightest awareness of what a c*nt it makes you look, on this of all threads. 

Please educate yourself on the origin of the term so you can understand how inappropriate it is. 

Educate yourself 😆hysterical. 

I tried to educate myself by looking in the dictionary and it told me that the word "mong" is slang for "a foolish person." It's still funny that you jumped to outrage over a typo. Oh and Mings was acting incredibly foolish so it's not that out of place then going by that definition. 

Edited 11 November, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

42 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Do you not know how to use Google?

Here you go. If you need any help with the big words let me know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54888197

ah bless, going on the attack. I asked you what you thought, not what the BBC tells you to think. What's up, cant make up your own opinions?

[aintforever]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

ah bless, going on the attack. I asked you what you thought, not what the BBC tells you to think. What's up, cant make up your own opinions?

That article explains why some people find the word offensive, I'm not sure what more I can add.

Do I need to draw something in crayons for you?

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

That article explains why some people find the word offensive, I'm not sure what more I can add.

Do I need to draw something in crayons for you?

It's your opinion i asked for,, sorry if you that means you need to think for yourself instead of being told what you should think.

[aintforever]

Just now, Turkish said:

It's your opinion i asked for,, sorry if you that means you need to think for yourself instead of being told what you should think.

No you didn't you asked what's offensive about what he said?

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

No you didn't you asked what's offensive about what he said?

what part of "please explain" are you struggling to comprehend? And you've got the neck to say you need to get crayons out for me. 🤣

[igsey]

From what I understand this case was more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario rather than him losing his job over one poorly-worded phrase.

[Wes Tender]

A far less biased and more balanced debate than anything that anybody employed by the BBC would come up with. And I expect that it is what most normal, sensible people would think too.

[edprice1984]

He was on borrowed time for his handling of the recent Project Big Picture nonsense. 

The use of the word 'coloured' is at best clumsy, at worst offensive. His description on gay players making a 'life choice' is ridiculous and incredibly stupid too. The fact that he then went on to compound these statements with lazy stereotypes about Girls/Womens football and South Asians in the IT department is almost laughable. 

My experience of those in charge of my local FA is that it is almost entirely ran by old white men, who haven't got a clue about modern football. The total lack of investment in the local grassroots game in my area is only now slowly (and I mean painfully so) being rectified. There is huge demand for girls football in the area, but a total lack of facilities and very little effort on the part of the local FA to encourage it. Sunday Mens football is almost dead. Saturday football suffers from poor organisation, lack of facilities and bizarre decisions on scheduling. 

The problem is that in a normal setting, Government would probably come in and enforce change - but if that happened, FIFA would actually ban England from all competitions (I am not even joking!). 

The sooner that we get young, progressive, ex - players in charge of the FA the better. Of course this is just my personal opinion and fully expect to be shot-down. 

[Saint Billy]

Well it gave another carrot for Piers Morgan to munch on, and as for Talk Sport, we'll, that nice Scottish fellow in the morning must of thought he had died and gone to heaven. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, edprice1984 said:

He was on borrowed time for his handling of the recent Project Big Picture nonsense. 

The use of the word 'coloured' is at best clumsy, at worst offensive. His description on gay players making a 'life choice' is ridiculous and incredibly stupid too. The fact that he then went on to compound these statements with lazy stereotypes about Girls/Womens football and South Asians in the IT department is almost laughable. 

My experience of those in charge of my local FA is that it is almost entirely ran by old white men, who haven't got a clue about modern football. The total lack of investment in the local grassroots game in my area is only now slowly (and I mean painfully so) being rectified. There is huge demand for girls football in the area, but a total lack of facilities and very little effort on the part of the local FA to encourage it. Sunday Mens football is almost dead. Saturday football suffers from poor organisation, lack of facilities and bizarre decisions on scheduling. 

The problem is that in a normal setting, Government would probably come in and enforce change - but if that happened, FIFA would actually ban England from all competitions (I am not even joking!). 

The sooner that we get young, progressive, ex - players in charge of the FA the better. Of course this is just my personal opinion and fully expect to be shot-down. 

You refer to "lazy stereotypes". He was referring to what was said to him, and what he's seen. Why is it wrong to mention as a fact something that one sees and hears as a fact? I have daughters, when they were younger and did footy training. they hated having the ball booted at them. That's a statement of fact, not a stereotype. 

I'm with you completely on the gay point though. Describing sexuality as any kind of choice shows a complete lack of awareness. 

I have no idea of the make up of the FA. I agree though that ex players relatively fresh out of the game should be involved. You've not suggested that those players should be black. If you were implying that, we'd disagree - give the job to the best candidates regardless of race. Positive discrimination, for me, is discriminatory and should have no place. 

 

[Fan The Flames]

7 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

Who gets to dictate to everybody speaking the English language throughout the World what the "correct" terminology should be? Who gave them that right? 

No one. These things are organically self-declared, that's alright isn't it?

[whelk]

Whole fcking sports bulletin on bbc this morning was about this. So boring and the earnest sanctimonious bs spouted and didn’t talk about one other story.

Didn’t even show Rahm’s mental golf shot at Augusta. Never seen anything like it

if anyone’s interested a recent Sam Harris podcast about Trump’s popularity is interesting. 
 

[sadoldgit]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

You refer to "lazy stereotypes". He was referring to what was said to him, and what he's seen. Why is it wrong to mention as a fact something that one sees and hears as a fact? I have daughters, when they were younger and did footy training. they hated having the ball booted at them. That's a statement of fact, not a stereotype. 

I'm with you completely on the gay point though. Describing sexuality as any kind of choice shows a complete lack of awareness. 

I have no idea of the make up of the FA. I agree though that ex players relatively fresh out of the game should be involved. You've not suggested that those players should be black. If you were implying that, we'd disagree - give the job to the best candidates regardless of race. Positive discrimination, for me, is discriminatory and should have no place. 

 

I think he was referring to coming out as being gay as a life choice rather than the choice being gay.

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54888197

The article refers mainly to the US, which has a vastly different history regarding racism than the UK, so much so, there's no comparison. The word "coloured" harks back to a time when "coloreds" endured segregation, among other evils, and is rightly seen in that context as offensive. Conversely, in South Africa the term is used without offence apparently, despite the Aparteid history where blacks were seen as unfit to mix with the white minority in any way, about as bad as it could be.

So where does that leave the UK with term. We have never practiced slavery, segregation or state sponsored persecution of our non-white population. A handful of NF nutters and a few nasty coppers is no comparison to what's happened, and is happening, in the US.

I always thought the term "coloured" was more respectful than "black" for example in this country. Again, the same words in different order can give offence , or not . "Person of colour", fine - "Coloured Person", take him down. Who has decided this in our country and with what authority ? No one seems to know. Many people get "offended" because they're told to. The BLM movement was spawned on the back of police murdering black people at will, which is f*** all to do with this country.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I think he was referring to coming out as being gay as a life choice rather than the choice being gay.

That's not how I heard it, but regardless, the words gay and choice in the same breath aren't clever. 

 

[Fan The Flames]

23 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

The article refers mainly to the US, which has a vastly different history regarding racism than the UK, so much so, there's no comparison. The word "coloured" harks back to a time when "coloreds" endured segregation, among other evils, and is rightly seen in that context as offensive. Conversely, in South Africa the term is used without offence apparently, despite the Aparteid history where blacks were seen as unfit to mix with the white minority in any way, about as bad as it could be.

So where does that leave the UK with term. We have never practiced slavery, segregation or state sponsored persecution of our non-white population. A handful of NF nutters and a few nasty coppers is no comparison to what's happened, and is happening, in the US.

I always thought the term "coloured" was more respectful than "black" for example in this country. Again, the same words in different order can give offence , or not . "Person of colour", fine - "Coloured Person", take him down. Who has decided this in our country and with what authority ? No one seems to know. Many people get "offended" because they're told to. The BLM movement was spawned on the back of police murdering black people at will, which is f*** all to do with this country.

It's the same with the etymology of more benign words, their meanings change over time, it's just the way it is and really should be no big deal. 

Just like no one decided that cunt was going to be a high ranking swear word, it just became one. It's only an assemblage of four letters and means the same thing as it did when it was first used but because of the values loaded on to it, it's a word you can't use at work. But you wouldn't get told off calling someone a dick.

As far as I can see there is no reason for Paki to be offensive, but it is deemed so by many Pakistanis, so I wouldn't use it.

Edited 11 November, 2020 by Fan The Flames

[Manuel]

34 minutes ago, whelk said:

Whole fcking sports bulletin on bbc this morning was about this. So boring and the earnest sanctimonious bs spouted and didn’t talk about one other story.

Didn’t even show Rahm’s mental golf shot at Augusta. Never seen anything like it

if anyone’s interested a recent Sam Harris podcast about Trump’s popularity is interesting. 
 

That was something else, and I don't even like golf.  I even showed the missus, and she doesn't like golf either.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

You refer to "lazy stereotypes". He was referring to what was said to him, and what he's seen. Why is it wrong to mention as a fact something that one sees and hears as a fact? I have daughters, when they were younger and did footy training. they hated having the ball booted at them. That's a statement of fact, not a stereotype. 

I'm with you completely on the gay point though. Describing sexuality as any kind of choice shows a complete lack of awareness. 

I have no idea of the make up of the FA. I agree though that ex players relatively fresh out of the game should be involved. You've not suggested that those players should be black. If you were implying that, we'd disagree - give the job to the best candidates regardless of race. Positive discrimination, for me, is discriminatory and should have no place. 

 

Of course the alternative way of viewing it was he was talking about coming out being a lifestyle choice and if a player decides to do that and is comfortable with that then team mates should support that. Certainly that's how i would read the comment without hoping it would offend me (i'm not saying thats you but some would be)

 

The real issue is once you run out in front of 60,000 people and you decided on Monday that you wanted to disclose your sexuality – and I would never pressure anybody to disclose their sexuality – what I would want to do is to know that anybody who runs out onto the pitch and says, ‘I’m gay. I’m proud of it and I’m happy. It’s a life choice, and I’ve made it because my life is a better place’, I’d like to believe and I do believe they would have the support of their mates in the changing room.”

Edited 11 November, 2020 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

Reading this topic reminds me of that time some weirdo on here tried to persuade everyone that using the word "Chinaman" was terribly insulting and pointed to some obscure American article as proof. 

Edited 11 November, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, kyle04 said:

The article refers mainly to the US, which has a vastly different history regarding racism than the UK, so much so, there's no comparison. The word "coloured" harks back to a time when "coloreds" endured segregation, among other evils, and is rightly seen in that context as offensive. Conversely, in South Africa the term is used without offence apparently, despite the Aparteid history where blacks were seen as unfit to mix with the white minority in any way, about as bad as it could be.

So where does that leave the UK with term. We have never practiced slavery, segregation or state sponsored persecution of our non-white population. A handful of NF nutters and a few nasty coppers is no comparison to what's happened, and is happening, in the US.

I always thought the term "coloured" was more respectful than "black" for example in this country. Again, the same words in different order can give offence , or not . "Person of colour", fine - "Coloured Person", take him down. Who has decided this in our country and with what authority ? No one seems to know. Many people get "offended" because they're told to. The BLM movement was spawned on the back of police murdering black people at will, which is f*** all to do with this country.

Spot on, especially the bit in bold.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Of course the alternative way of viewing it was he was talking about coming out being a lifestyle choice and if a player decides to do that and is comfortable with that then team mates should support that. Certainly that's how i would read the comment without hoping it would offend me (i'm not saying thats you but some would be)

 

The real issue is once you run out in front of 60,000 people and you decided on Monday that you wanted to disclose your sexuality – and I would never pressure anybody to disclose their sexuality – what I would want to do is to know that anybody who runs out onto the pitch and says, ‘I’m gay. I’m proud of it and I’m happy. It’s a life choice, and I’ve made it because my life is a better place’, I’d like to believe and I do believe they would have the support of their mates in the changing room.”

Cheers, reading the whole quote you can see that his intentions were honourable. Where he fell down was the use of the word choice, which in the context of saying other things which seemingly cause offence, wasn't too clever. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

You can bet your life his replacement will be a chick or BAME. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Cheers, reading the whole quote you can see that his intentions were honourable. Where he fell down was the use of the word choice, which in the context of saying other things which seemingly cause offence, wasn't too clever. 

Its choice of words in the racism outrage too, his point was that black and female footballers get a lot of grief on social media, if he’d have said people of colour get a lot of grief on social media then Everyone would have applauded him. 

[Weston Super Saint]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You can bet your life his replacement will be a chick or BAME. 

Not a hope in hell at the FA.  It'll be a white bloke between 50 and 60.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not a hope in hell at the FA.  It'll be a white bloke between 50 and 60.

Nah, they'll go all BBC. It'll be a black ex player or e female ex player, which is fine if its on merit but I suspect that a white male candidate now has zero chance of getting the job on merit. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nah, they'll go all BBC. It'll be a black ex player or e female ex player, which is fine if its on merit but I suspect that a white male candidate now has zero chance of getting the job on merit. 

Agreed. Not a chance will it be an old white man regardless of their ability. 

[Verbal]

4 hours ago, igsey said:

From what I understand this case was more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario rather than him losing his job over one poorly-worded phrase.

This is the sum total of it.  Using the phrase 'coloured people' is a classic bumbling boomer mistake that in itself doesn't add up to that much - though he hardly qualifies for a pass given his position.  It's more that he's seemed recently to have managed to combine being devious and incompetent on an epic scale.  

[Hockey_saint]

8 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Fortunately the baby boomers of Saints Web don't get to decide what is offensive to a specific group of people. 

Clarke used a bunch of archaic terms and has been rightly put back in his box. 

That article was on the money but it reminded me of going to Graceland and hearing Elvis refer to the guy that sang "(your love is) lifting me higher" as the "coloured Elvis"....it was a bit awkward listening to it then but yeah, as I said, it was a classification and something someone like him should have known about.

[Jonnyboy]

Get Les Reed in. 

[skintsaint]

Slightly off topic this but in the last few days on my local Facebook Neighbourhood watch page someone said there was an Asian man in a red top and jeans looking in and out of car ports on one of the roads. Schoolboy error that. So many people raged into the poster stating why he couldn't just be described as a man and then even a few were saying you can't call him a man and just a person. I believe the original poster of this was eventually booted from the group when trying to defend his wording while just trying to help others keep a look out for some criminal activity. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Wait for that terminology to catch on and news features will be riveting!  "A person was shot today whilst walking on a brdige.  Police are currently looking for a different person".  That should help narrow it down 

[Wes Tender]

8 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

That article was on the money but it reminded me of going to Graceland and hearing Elvis refer to the guy that sang "(your love is) lifting me higher" as the "coloured Elvis"....it was a bit awkward listening to it then but yeah, as I said, it was a classification and something someone like him should have known about.

You just don't get this history thing, do you? Elvis died 44 years ago, and was raised in the South of the US, so a little understanding of historical context ought to be a mitigating factor to be taken into account by any sensible person. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wait for that terminology to catch on and news features will be riveting!  "A person was shot today whilst walking on a brdige.  Police are currently looking for a different person".  That should help narrow it down 

You are assuming they identify as a human.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Slightly off topic this but in the last few days on my local Facebook Neighbourhood watch page someone said there was an Asian man in a red top and jeans looking in and out of car ports on one of the roads. Schoolboy error that. So many people raged into the poster stating why he couldn't just be described as a man and then even a few were saying you can't call him a man and just a person. I believe the original poster of this was eventually booted from the group when trying to defend his wording while just trying to help others keep a look out for some criminal activity. 

How dare they assume his gender!

[kyle04]

10 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Slightly off topic this but in the last few days on my local Facebook Neighbourhood watch page someone said there was an Asian man in a red top and jeans looking in and out of car ports on one of the roads. Schoolboy error that. So many people raged into the poster stating why he couldn't just be described as a man and then even a few were saying you can't call him a man and just a person. I believe the original poster of this was eventually booted from the group when trying to defend his wording while just trying to help others keep a look out for some criminal activity. 

Sounds about right these days. You can imagine the police interviewing him as a witness :

"Can you describe the person you saw" - "A man"

"Can you remember anything about his appearance" - "Sidney Poitier's my favourite actor"

"You saw his face, can you describe his ethnicity" - "Can I go now ?"

Police are looking for a man in connection with the incident. If anyone has seen a man, please call ......

[suewhistle]

On 10/11/2020 at 21:30, rallyboy said:

Had to step down for being totally out of touch with society and thus unfit to do the job.

Not especially racist, but his job involves awareness of several subjects.

He displayed none.

 

Basically this, and too stupid to realise that language is important, and revealed his underlying attitudes. Being gay is a "life choice", really? He said a women’s coach had told him that the lack of women’s goalkeepers was due to girls not liking the ball being kicked at them. Why even mention that, even if it were true? About the only cliched attitude he didn't express was that most women footballers are lesbian.. 😀

[sadoldgit]

On 11/11/2020 at 19:22, Weston Super Saint said:

Not a hope in hell at the FA.  It'll be a white bloke between 50 and 60.

They have to be able to look good in a blazer.

[Turkish]

12 hours ago, suewhistle said:

Basically this, and too stupid to realise that language is important, and revealed his underlying attitudes. Being gay is a "life choice", really? He said a women’s coach had told him that the lack of women’s goalkeepers was due to girls not liking the ball being kicked at them. Why even mention that, even if it were true? About the only cliched attitude he didn't express was that most women footballers are lesbian.. 😀

That’s not what he said 

As for you other point, well if that's a reason why there aren't more female goalkeepers then of course it should be mentioned? Why shy away from the truth because a few people might get offended by it? Bizarre logic.

You should listen to this guy Sue, read his book, you'll learn a lot.  he's a hero of mine and an absolute legend, he believes we shouldn't hide from the truth because it might upset people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LQ1isMTDjY

Edited 13 November, 2020 by Turkish

[Jeremy]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:21, Hockey_saint said:

Apartheid South Africa never referred to anyone as "people of colour".....they were quite partial to the term "coloured" though.

Wasn't that kaffers?

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 hours ago, suewhistle said:

 He said a women’s coach had told him that the lack of women’s goalkeepers was due to girls not liking the ball being kicked at them. Why even mention that, even if it were true? . 

If it were true, why shouldn’t he mention it? 
 

 

[Turkish]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If it were true, why shouldn’t he mention it? 
 

 

Because people are scared of the truth in case it upsets them, if it's true we've got to pretend it's not.

[whelk]

I heard lots of women don’t want to play unless they can wear a pink dress. 

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

I heard lots of women don’t want to play unless they can wear a pink dress. 

I Heard a lot of girls are put off taking up football as they worried about coming out as straight and are worried they might get abuse from the fans and in the changing rooms from their team mates

[egg]

On 12/11/2020 at 21:49, suewhistle said:

 He said a women’s coach had told him that the lack of women’s goalkeepers was due to girls not liking the ball being kicked at them. Why even mention that, even if it were true? About the only cliched attitude he didn't express was that most women footballers are lesbian.. 😀

Because in the context of why girls don't come into the game and become goalkeepers, it's entirely correct to give an explanation as to why girls don't come into the game and become goalkeepers. 

When the truth offends and can't be spoken, there is a problem. 

I believe what he was told. I have 2 daughters and tried to get them into footy. They hated getting the ball booted at them. And getting muddy. And getting cold. They both quit. One went on to do dance, and the other trampolining. Very well in fact. 

In the real world, the reality often matches the stereotypes. 

Edited 14 November, 2020 by egg

[Fan The Flames]

My daughter played football for years and every match she played there were always two goalkeepers. A lot of them were shit and some only saved with their legs because they weren't natural keepers but they were happy to have balls hit at them. After all plenty of girls do martial arts, box, play rugby...

In my opinion it's a supply issue snd a coaching issue. My son plays and a lot of young boys become goalkeepers to get to into teams they couldn't out on pitch. It's a face saving move, they then get into it and get specific coaching. This doesn't happen in all girls football, yet. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

My daughter played football for years and every match she played there were always two goalkeepers. A lot of them were shit and some only saved with their legs because they weren't natural keepers but they were happy to have balls hit at them. After all plenty of girls do martial arts, box, play rugby...

In my opinion it's a supply issue snd a coaching issue. My son plays and a lot of young boys become goalkeepers to get to into teams they couldn't out on pitch. It's a face saving move, they then get into it and get specific coaching. This doesn't happen in all girls football, yet. 

All girls are different, I can only say what mine were like. Based on their experience, I can accept what Clarke was told, and in the context of the forum, why he raised it. People in authority cannot be fearful of giving anecdotes and explanations in case it breaches some unwritten social rules.