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Liverpool 4-0 Saints - Match Thread


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1 minute ago, TWar said:

You have no evidence for this. Also why a 424 and not the 3412 we actually played? A defensive formation against bigger teams is a tale as old as time.

I think people might be suggesting that playing Adams Broja and Armstrong against Liverpool is not as defensive as you’re making it out to be, and there were other options that would have set us up better (or at least more defensively).

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Just now, captainchris said:

Oh dear….

Thanks for the tactics ‘lesson’ Ralph but I’m not buying your midfield/false 9/ 3 up front master class.

We were crap today and had no midfield, hence there were umpteen long balls in the general direction of the ‘front 3’

We also lose control of games as they wear on because we are having to cover so much ground to make up for lack of numbers in central areas. 

Your ‘very strong’ pairing of Romeu and JWP is not enough, not withstanding that neither are creative and both are defensive. ‘Very Strong’ is also a bit far fetched.

Too often we are tactically left wanting…. 


 

 

 


 

 

Yes, JWP and Romeu weren't enough to deal with liverpool. They are most likely have the 2nd or 3rd best starting 11 in the world. Yes, we played long ball football against a far superior side, like most teams would. They are a "very strong" pairing for our level. We have probably the 8th or 9th best midfield in the league. Liverpool is still way better. That's just how it is. They won a CL and a PL in the last few years with this team, what do you expect?

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52 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If Tella was the only player "up for it" I don't see your comment "it's not the end of the world" offering much comfort. The fact we went to Anfield and 10 of our players weren't "up for it" must surely be a real concern?

Fair point. I guess it depends why the majority of the team seemingly didn't seem "up for it".

The early goal would have knocked the stuffing out of the starting 11, so that probably have had a bearing. (Yes, I know, they're professional footballers, and shouldn't seemingly throw in the towel so early, but I'm no psychologist so can't shed any light on why).

These are the same players that played with esprit de corps during our recent decent run, so any concern I have with today's lacklustre performance is balanced by the belief that we can get our mojo back as quickly as we lost it.

When Tella came on, he would have been in "I've got something to prove here," mode, having been overlooked for so long, so he was on a different agenda to the rest of the team when he came on. 

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3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I think people might be suggesting that playing Adams Broja and Armstrong against Liverpool is not as defensive as you’re making it out to be, and there were other options that would have set us up better (or at least more defensively).

We still played with 3 CBs and 2 DMs and our wingbacks were pretty pinned back. That is a pretty defensive formation tbh. Having Che linking our midfield and attack instead of, for instance, Djenepo doesn't make it more attacking imo. He wasn't playing as a striker really.

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We've grown accustomed to Ralph fielding a decent starting line-up but failing to adjust properly or quickly enough at, or just after, half time.

Today was the complete reverse.

If Ralph wanted to play three up front, he had to use one of them to counter a side that uses a central defender to sweep and/or launch attacks - pushing one in on VVD and forcing him to mark rather than sweep and launch. As it was, the front three didn't dovetail together very well and didn't make things uncomfortable for VVD. That effectively took us down to 9 versus 11, which will never work against a side of Liverpool's quality.

If Ralph wanted to counter aggressive wing backs he should have played touchline-hugging midfielders to give them something to think about other than bombing forward with abandon. Risky? Sure, but so was playing three strikers. As it was, our width came from Livramento and Perraud, but it made us so vulnerable to the wide counter.

Ralph's changes were good, and he finally gave Tella a chance to prove his worth, which he did. Hopefully, it didn't pass unnoticed.

We have the capability to be a very decent team, but not if we don't get BOTH our starting line-up and adjustments right.

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1 minute ago, TWar said:

We still played with 3 CBs and 2 DMs and our wingbacks were pretty pinned back. That is a pretty defensive formation tbh. Having Che linking our midfield and attack instead of, for instance, Djenepo doesn't make it more attacking imo. He wasn't playing as a striker really.

Personally not suggesting Djnepo and I don’t think anyone else has.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fair play to Ralph, admits he made a mistake. 
 

Shame his fan club can’t see it, I guess that’s what a cult looks like.

 

 

Yep, fair play Ralph, he’s owned that one and he changed it at half time as it clearly was the wrong option.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fair play to Ralph, admits he made a mistake. 
 

Shame his fan club can’t see it, I guess that’s what a cult looks like.

 

 

Name 3 posters who think that Ralph didn't make any mistakes today. I've got all night so take as much time as you need. (Unless you're mistaking one poster for a 'cult' #chortle ?)

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6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Personally not suggesting Djnepo and I don’t think anyone else has.

I ment just as an example. Like if we play a 352 then we are basically parking the bus. We need a 10 to connect play. We chose a guy who is normally a striker but that's not any less defensive than picking one of our normal 10s imo. If we picked diallo it would have been, but that's far too negative imo

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Well that was tough. After tge first goal, I relaxed and saw today for what it was, a masterclass. 
To be frank we are never going to be near them in terms of players and periodically we can match these teams with tactics, luck and hard work. Today we didn’t have it.

 I stood back and enjoyed a thoroughly impressive team. I don’t think Ive seen such a dominant team since Arsenal had Henry, Pires and the rest.

oh and Anfield by far the worst food and drinks. Steak pie was atrocious and tea like I imagine dishwater to taste. 
 

As usual the Scousers were good craic and even they failed to muster much if an atmosphere after the first goal. A stroll in the park for them.

As for our team, Armstrong is always just a few inches away from latching onto balls. My Ormerod comparison gets truer each game

Theres a good player inside Lyanco somewhere. Salisu is our next Van Dyck. 
 

Livramento is going backwards. Not as much thrust there, maybe its a confidence thing. 
 

Overall, they let us off the hook. Could have been 10 if they wanted. Credit to the players for coming over at the end, must have been hard. Also credit to Alex too. Nice to see that these days.

Respect to the fans too for observing the 12 min applause for the little girl murdered in Liverpool this week.

Onwards and upwards.

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1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Interesting that Ralph says Diallo was injured so couldn’t play. I said before the game he would’ve been my choice to play so it looks like the lineup was really not one we planned for.

Wasn't Diallo named on the bench though? But, yep, sounds like a late injury forced his hand somewhat.

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25 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think Che was a false 9, personally, I'd say he was more like a 10. 3 at the back went badly, but thats because it was up against one of the best attacks in the world. I don't think formation was the issue when you have the likes of Salah and Mane who are up there in the best in the world conversation against the likes of Bednarek.

It wasn't a "tactical clusterfuck" in the same way Liverpool getting 4+ goals against teams like United, Arsenal, Porto, etc. wasn't a tactical clusterfuck. It was a world class attack performing at a world class standard.

Yet Ralph admitted he got it wrong. Still you know best dear.

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1 hour ago, 64saint said:

Merse giving us praise on Sky saying '...if we play like that against teams in bottom half we'll stay up definitely, not all doom and gloom'..... 

Dropped points against Newcastle, Norwich and Burnley - the bottom three - is at least a little doom and gloom-worthy.

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2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Wasn't Diallo named on the bench though? But, yep, sounds like a late injury forced his hand somewhat.

Yes he was hence why before the game I was surprised we didn’t have him in. But yeah, looks like a late forced decision to line up as we did. Smallbone was the only other CM option we had.

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26 minutes ago, TWar said:

To respond

  • Agreed
  • Championship level is harsh. They are nowhere near Liverpool level, but so are most prem players. There is a difference between championship level and midtable which is where most of our players are (JWP, Salisu, Livra are higher, Macca and Bednarek are relegations scrap level)
  • I think he does have a decent idea, but no matter how good his ideas are when you are playing with such a disparity in player quality then the best you can do is set up in a way most likely to win, even if that is still quite unlikely and I think he did that today

The club needs hundreds and hundreds of millions to be at a point where we can reliably compete with a side of the quality we faced today, but that isn't happening and likely isn't the goal. We are good enough right now to be midtable imo, avoid relegation, and maybe push top half. But we aren't a team that is fit to take on CL winners like we did today.

I don’t agree that the club needs hundreds of millions…we need to spend £30-40 million rather circa £10-15 million on two competent strikers that will present more of a goal threat than the present incumbents.

We need manager who knows how to play a system that works with the players available to him - Ralph hasn’t done this and all the evidence suggests he won’t. When a team of Norwich’s limited ability outplays us because they get a manager who knows how to set his limited team up, you start to understand why Ralph is more to get us relegated than maintain a mid table status.

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12 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Ralph trying to go toe to toe with Liverpool (with that formation )was always going to end in tears. I agree with Adrian Lord's post  -we should  have parked the bus.

you got it

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7 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Well that was tough. After tge first goal, I relaxed and saw today for what it was, a masterclass. 
To be frank we are never going to be near them in terms of players and periodically we can match these teams with tactics, luck and hard work. Today we didn’t have it.

 I stood back and enjoyed a thoroughly impressive team. I don’t think Ive seen such a dominant team since Arsenal had Henry, Pires and the rest.

oh and Anfield by far the worst food and drinks. Steak pie was atrocious and tea like I imagine dishwater to taste. 
 

As usual the Scousers were good craic and even they failed to muster much if an atmosphere after the first goal. A stroll in the park for them.

As for our team, Armstrong is always just a few inches away from latching onto balls. My Ormerod comparison gets truer each game

Theres a good player inside Lyanco somewhere. Salisu is our next Van Dyck. 
 

Livramento is going backwards. Not as much thrust there, maybe its a confidence thing. 
 

Overall, they let us off the hook. Could have been 10 if they wanted. Credit to the players for coming over at the end, must have been hard. Also credit to Alex too. Nice to see that these days.

Respect to the fans too for observing the 12 min applause for the little girl murdered in Liverpool this week.

Onwards and upwards.

It’s perfectly normal for a young player to go through a bit of a deep in form. We’ve seen it time and time again with other young players burst on the scene and then their form drops off. The best thing to do would be to take him out the firing line for a few weeks. The problem is our fans will be apoplectic  if that happens as for much of this season he’s been built up to be the new Cafu. He’s a quality young player but now is probably the right time to leave him out for a few weeks.

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1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It’s perfectly normal for a young player to go through a bit of a deep in form. We’ve seen it time and time again with other young players burst on the scene and then their form drops off. The best thing to do would be to take him out the firing line for a few weeks. The problem is our fans will be apologetic if that happens as for much of this season he’s been built up to be the new Cafu. He’s a quality young player but now is probably the right time to leave him out for a few weeks.

Especially with KWP in the squad. 

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1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

I think the main takeaway from this match is how much more knowledgeable you are compared to every other contributor on this forum. You, like, know everything.

Funny isn’t it, it makes you wonder why none of these football manager players have ever managed a real game of football. 

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1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It’s perfectly normal for a young player to go through a bit of a deep in form. We’ve seen it time and time again with other young players burst on the scene and then their form drops off. The best thing to do would be to take him out the firing line for a few weeks. The problem is our fans will be apologetic if that happens as for much of this season he’s been built up to be the new Cafu. He’s a quality young player but now is probably the right time to leave him out for a few weeks.

KWP deserves a chance too, he’s a really good right back.

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1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It’s perfectly normal for a young player to go through a bit of a deep in form. We’ve seen it time and time again with other young players burst on the scene and then their form drops off. The best thing to do would be to take him out the firing line for a few weeks. The problem is our fans will be apologetic if that happens as for much of this season he’s been built up to be the new Cafu. He’s a quality young player but now is probably the right time to leave him out for a few weeks.

I think Twar (maybe someone else) described Livramento as "world class" a few days back.  Madness!

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2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s perfectly normal for a young player to go through a bit of a deep in form. We’ve seen it time and time again with other young players burst on the scene and then their form drops off. The best thing to do would be to take him out the firing line for a few weeks. The problem is our fans will be apologetic if that happens as for much of this season he’s been built up to be the new Cafu. He’s a quality young player but now is probably the right time to leave him out for a few weeks.

Yep, agree. KWP and Perraud to start the next game please. 

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Liverpool named their strongest XI against us... and it showed. That shows respect for us from Klopp, he could have seen us as an easy fixture and rested a few players. I liked the formation and personnel before the game, they were just too much for us. Onwards we go.

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2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I think Twar (maybe someone else) described Livramento as "world class" a few days back.  Madness!

Yeah but he also reckons Armstrong has a higher ceiling then broja.  He’s does know all the fashionable acronyms and buzzwords though 👍

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1 hour ago, TWar said:

I don't think he did get the formation wrong, a 3412 had the best chance of success, but given Liverpool are an excellent side, that chance was still very low. It doesn't prove he made the wrong decision.

Ralph Hassenhuttl said:

“We did a mistake which you shouldn’t do against such a team, changing the shape and what you know very well, then try against this team and it didn’t work. We changed at half time…..to more oriented defending and what we always do.”

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5 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Ralph Hassenhuttl said:

“We did a mistake which you shouldn’t do against such a team, changing the shape and what you know very well, then try against this team and it didn’t work. We changed at half time…..to more oriented defending and what we always do.”

Devils Advocate Klaxon... 

Maybe he didn't really think that on the inside, but said those words out loud to take the flack in order to protect his players?

(No, I don't think so either but just playing the amateur philosopher... :) )

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Just now, trousers said:

Devils Advocate Klaxon... 

Maybe he didn't really think that on the inside, but said those words out loud to take the flack in order to protect his players?

(No, I don't think so either but just playing the amateur philosopher... :) )

I think he knows he made a mistake but sounds like Diallo injured threw a spanner in the works. I’ll claim my prescience medal from pre game when I thought 3 at the back was ok but 2 in the middle / 3 up top was dodgy, sounds like Ralph’s pre match plan was definitely Diallo in there to beef up midfield and that’s where the week of preparation has been heading (whether that was 2 at CB or 3, who knows).

Said it before, we’d have lost this game 99% of the time anyway so can’t complain too much, just disappointing to play right into their hands. And, to be fair, too many individual bad performances and errors anyway. 

I carry on saying ‘in Ralph we trust’.

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51 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think Che was a false 9, personally, I'd say he was more like a 10. 3 at the back went badly, but thats because it was up against one of the best attacks in the world. I don't think formation was the issue when you have the likes of Salah and Mane who are up there in the best in the world conversation against the likes of Bednarek.

It wasn't a "tactical clusterfuck" in the same way Liverpool getting 4+ goals against teams like United, Arsenal, Porto, etc. wasn't a tactical clusterfuck. It was a world class attack performing at a world class standard.

I thought the ralph cult would be out in force tonight, smoothing it all over. You're the guy a couple of weeks back who was saying Villa were dreadful, nailed on for relegation. I see in another thread you say we need 100s of millions to complete with Liverpool. That might be true if you mean finishing above them in the league (although a few years back we did achieve that), but its not true for a one off game. Tell you what would have given us a better chance? A manager who set the team up solid to defend but oh, Ralph seems to think we can compete toe for toe at Anfield. Woeful idea. 

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48 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Oh dear….

Thanks for the tactics ‘lesson’ Ralph but I’m not buying your midfield/false 9/ 3 up front master class.

We were crap today and had no midfield, hence there were umpteen long balls in the general direction of the ‘front 3’

We also lose control of games as they wear on because we are having to cover so much ground to make up for lack of numbers in central areas. 

Your ‘very strong’ pairing of Romeu and JWP is not enough, not withstanding that neither are creative and both are defensive. ‘Very Strong’ is also a bit far fetched.

Too often we are tactically left wanting…. 


 

 

 


 

 

Yep. I'm not sure how anyone can't see that today was a shocker tactically. 2 in midfield against their 3 was never going to end well. 

 

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5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Devils Advocate Klaxon... 

Maybe he didn't really think that on the inside, but said those words out loud to take the flack in order to protect his players?

(No, I don't think so either but just playing the amateur philosopher... :) )

the players made mistakes, the first goal is a complete shit show from front to back, but I think Ralph is genuinely taking the flack because he knows he deserves some of it.

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50 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Even at 4-0 that was a flattering scoreline.

Should have been six.

The only reason it wasn't was the chances on a plate they missed.

That game was a free hit so...

You are of course correct, however we missed some also and got into very dangerous positions. Yes we lost handsomely but we should have been on the scoresheet. 

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