Russia

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Tamesaint said:

Triggered. 🤗🤗🤗

Unlikely. Just taking the piss out of your (lame) piss poor attempt at piss taking (again).

 

[Tamesaint]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Unlikely. Just taking the piss out of your (lame) piss poor attempt at piss taking (again).

 

It got a reaction out of you didn't it. 😁😁

Remind us again. Why is your nickname Piggy??

[farawaysaint]

I don’t understand Russians. I spoke to someone yesterday who lives in Rostov when Wagner had occupied the city and they literally did not care.

I don’t think anyone in the West truly understands the Russian psyche, the general mood seems to be some form of apathetic serfdom.

It doesn’t matter who is on top as long as they don’t impact on the peasants daily lives too much. 

Edited 25 June, 2023 by farawaysaint

[Colinjb]

8 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

I don’t understand Russians. I spoke to someone yesterday who lives in Rostov when Wagner had occupied the city and they literally did not care.

I don’t think anyone in the West truly understands the Russian psyche, the general mood seems to be some form of apathetic serfdom.

It doesn’t matter who is on top as long as they don’t impact on the peasants daily lives too much. 

“The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are.”

[OldNick]

Putins agents threatened the family and so he decided to take a route out. As what happened with Rommel, Hitlers men told him to blow his head off or his family would be hurt

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Putins agents threatened the family and so he decided to take a route out. As what happened with Rommel, Hitlers men told him to blow his head off or his family would be hurt

German intelligence think he didnt get thee wider support he expected so withdrew. Still at risk though agree

[skintsaint]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/russia-holds-general-sergei-surovikin-over-wagner-mutiny-reports

[Jonnyboy]

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/prigozhins-folly?utm_medium=email

[Jonnyboy]

How's the march on Moscow going @Jimmy_D? 🤦

[Jimmy_D]

6 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

How's the march on Moscow going @Jimmy_D? 🤦

Resulted in the only fighters and leaders that have had any success from Russia in the last 12 months being exiled to Belarus and Africa.

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

How's the march on Moscow going @Jimmy_D? 🤦

Ever thought of signing up for Wagner pisspot?

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Ever thought of signing up for Wagner pisspot?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66060392

Its not too late.

[buctootim]

Besides the Wagner Group, Prigozhin is notorious for setting up the St Petersburg troll farm that has infested comments boards for years. This announcement is fascinating because it lays bear some of the true extent of the propaganda machine. For sure more dirt will end up in the public domain, maybe Trump, Brexit and Johnson...

  

 

[AlexLaw76]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-us-officials-secret-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&taid=64a694f74e4e2c000136289a&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-us-officials-secret-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&taid=64a694f74e4e2c000136289a&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

A lot has changed in 3 months since this meeting.

[Picard]

Good to see US taking moral high ground by sending cluster bombs to Ukraine.

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Picard said:

Good to see US taking moral high ground by sending cluster bombs to Ukraine.

I’m not sure that there is much moral high ground in war and Russia have used cluster bombs against Ukraine already. If you are going to get blown up does it really matter what does it unless it is a nuke? That seems to be where the line is drawn.

[revolution saint]

49 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I’m not sure that there is much moral high ground in war and Russia have used cluster bombs against Ukraine already. If you are going to get blown up does it really matter what does it unless it is a nuke? That seems to be where the line is drawn.

The issue is not so much killing soldiers but whether it poses threats (and lasting threats) to civilians.  It's much like mines in that respect.  Perfect world neither side would be using them but Russia already are and Ukraine have signed up to not use them near civilian populations and to document when and where they do use them.

I'm not particularly happy about it but from a pragmatic point of view it makes sense.  

[badgerx16]

Day 500 of the 3 day operation, President Zelensky visits Snake Island

[Lighthouse]

Day 502 of the SMO. NATO now controls the entirety of the Baltic, aside from two tiny Russian enclaves.

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Day 502 of the SMO. NATO now controls the entirety of the Baltic, aside from two tiny Russian enclaves.

Turkey doing its best to piss Russia off more in a matter of days, first the release of the Azov commanders and now backing Sweden into Nato.

[skintsaint]

So it looks like Ukraine has repeated the drone boat attack on the Kerch bridge. Would have through Russia would have beefed up defensives against that sort of attack happening again.

[Lighthouse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242446
 

If anyone needed reminding that negotiating with Russia and coming to some sort of agreement is ultimately pointless, here it is. Whenever they feel like it they’ll decide Ukraine hasn’t met the terms of the agreement and attack them again.

[egg]

47 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242446
 

If anyone needed reminding that negotiating with Russia and coming to some sort of agreement is ultimately pointless, here it is. Whenever they feel like it they’ll decide Ukraine hasn’t met the terms of the agreement and attack them again.

These attacks by Russia surely dispel the myth that they're all but out of weapons. 

[Whitey Grandad]

34 minutes ago, egg said:

These attacks by Russia surely dispel the myth that they're all but out of weapons. 

Why do you call it a myth? We have no way of knowing.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Why do you call it a myth? We have no way of knowing.

They keep throwing missiles around. Various people were suggesting they were on their last lot. They plainly aren't. 

[Lighthouse]

Christ, not this again. The point has always been that they lack the ability to produce smart munitions in anywhere near the numbers they’d need to maintain a sustained offensive. Given that they spend most of their time buying drones from Iran and sporadically smacking them aimlessly into the middle of Kyiv and Dnipro, I’d say that argument holds weight.

So they’ve attacked a port, big whoop, they’re doing a fraction of the damage we did to Hamburg with Lancasters, 80 years ago. This is a war of terror, they’re trying to give the illusion of force whilst really, tactically achieving very little.

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

They keep throwing missiles around. Various people were suggesting they were on their last lot. They plainly aren't. 

But they might be on their last lot. Without knowing their stocks we can infer nothing.

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

They keep throwing missiles around. Various people were suggesting they were on their last lot. They plainly aren't. 

They are thought to have just about exhausted pre-war stocks, and rumoured to be producing around 60 cruise and tactical ballistic missiles per month. Firing 30 in one attack in a fit of pique at (1) the Kerch bridge being attacked again and (2) nobody giving in to their attempted blackmail over the grain export deal, does not seem to make a great deal of sense.

If they repeat this level of attack daily for the next fortnight then the rumours are probably wrong.

[badgerx16]

According to President Zelensky the grain destroyed by the Russian attack was destined for China.

[egg]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

They are thought to have just about exhausted pre-war stocks, and rumoured to be producing around 60 cruise and tactical ballistic missiles per month. Firing 30 in one attack in a fit of pique at (1) the Kerch bridge being attacked again and (2) nobody giving in to their attempted blackmail over the grain export deal, does not seem to make a great deal of sense.

If they repeat this level of attack daily for the next fortnight then the rumours are probably wrong.

Regardless of the message issued by the west, firing off 30 huge missiles in one salvo plainly suggests that they have reserves. I'm in little doubt that they can support themselves with more than the west are supplying Ukraine, and I suspect that there'll be international production and supply from  foreign supporters. Iran won't give a monkeys about international sanctions, ditto North Korea, and Syria. You then have other countries who trade with Russia who may well be supplying them.

On the point (not yours) about attacks being aimless. The fact that they were able to hit very specific grain storage and supply infrastructure confirms that they have the ability to be very specific, amd accurate, in their targeting if they choose to. I don't doubt that they're scattergun as well though. 

[skintsaint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

and I suspect that there'll be international production and supply from  foreign supporters.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weapons-used-by-russia-in-ukraine-contain-parts-made-in-ireland-p32hfmx3g

Ireland for one.

[revolution saint]

3 hours ago, egg said:

 I'm in little doubt that they can support themselves with more than the west are supplying Ukraine, and I suspect that there'll be international production and supply from  foreign supporters. Iran won't give a monkeys about international sanctions, ditto North Korea, and Syria. You then have other countries who trade with Russia who may well be supplying them.

On the point (not yours) about attacks being aimless. The fact that they were able to hit very specific grain storage and supply infrastructure confirms that they have the ability to be very specific, amd accurate, in their targeting if they choose to. I don't doubt that they're scattergun as well though. 

That's just as speculative as anyone saying Russia is running out of missiles.

[egg]

47 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

That's just as speculative as anyone saying Russia is running out of missiles.

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

[revolution saint]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

That's entirely disputable.  Ukraine recently attacked the Kurch bridge (again), they've taken out many ammo depots, killed Russian generals in targeted strikes and appear to be causing havoc with further disruption to logistics.

That's beside the point though - you said, "I'm in little doubt that they can support themselves with more than the west are supplying Ukraine" and you simply don't know how much the west is willing to supply Ukraine.  There's no sign of it stopping and if anything the west is supplying even more.  Now you can speculate that it might stop but, as I pointed out, that's exactly the same as you moaning about the people speculating on Russia running out of missiles.

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

Increasingly they are adapting anti-air missiles for use as long range surface attack systems, which are much less accurate than specifically designed cruise missiles. The problem for Ukraine with naval launches against Odesa is that the incoming missiles can only be targeted by local defences, whereas attacks on Kyiv or Kharkiv might pass over hundreds of kilometres of defended territory, and multiple layers of AAA systems.

[Lighthouse]

All these precision missiles and they couldn’t stop a convoy of their own crappy tanks rolling towards Moscow.

[Baird of the land]

20 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242446
 

If anyone needed reminding that negotiating with Russia and coming to some sort of agreement is ultimately pointless, here it is. Whenever they feel like it they’ll decide Ukraine hasn’t met the terms of the agreement and attack them again.

Again, when did Russia stop attacking Ukraine?

They didn't attack Odessa and grain flowed freely whilst the deal was active so you could argue the agreement wasn't pointless. The UN have acknowledged there were obstacles to the Russian food/fertilizer elements that were a key part of the grain deal so Russia might be the one thinking any sort of agreement is pointless.

 

[Jimmy_D]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

Seemingly is correct. They’re targeting civilians infrastructure because it gets noticed and widely reported on. It’s useful to them to be able to claim they’re having success to the Russian people.

It also does nothing for them militarily against Ukraine, but because military targets are extremely well defended in Ukraine now, and they don’t have the stocks to overwhelm those defences,  it’s a way they can still get some use from their limited supply.

Anyone doing anything to disrupt that messaging to the Russian people are finding themselves in trouble.

Look back at when they started their terror attacks with missiles, numbers are tiny compared to then, they’re far more sporadic, and far less effective.
 

Meanwhile, Storm Shadows supplied by the UK have had a reported near 100% success rate, with huge numbers of high military value targets hit. They’re about to get some more from France too. Not to mention the success Ukraine have been having with new counter-battery radar against Russian artillery and MLRS targets the last few weeks, as well as constantly hitting Russian ammo dumps.

If Russia did have more in their arsenal, they’re not using it very well because Ukraine have been pressuring them back on all fronts for a while now.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

Have you sold Batman your account?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, egg said:

Russia are seemingly firing around more big explosives than Ukraine. What other conclusion is to be drawn than Russia have more in their arsenal? 

You can't conclude anything. All that you might be able to say is that they have less in their arsenal now than they did before they fired them.

[badgerx16]

Report on alleged casualty numbers for Wagner in Ukraine;

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/19639

 

In summary;

Wagner had 78,000 thousand fighters in total.

· 49,000 of these were convicts.

· 22,000 were killed.

· 40,000 wounded

Edited 20 July, 2023 by badgerx16

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Report on alleged casualty numbers for Wagner in Ukraine;

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/19639

 

In summary;

Wagner had 78,000 thousand fighters in total.

· 49,000 of these were convicts.

· 22,000 were killed.

· 40,000 wounded

79% either killed or wounded. Crazy if true.

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, skintsaint said:

79% either killed or wounded. Crazy if true.

And they still managed to march on Moscow unopposed.

[AlexLaw76]

16 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

All these precision missiles and they couldn’t stop a convoy of their own crappy tanks rolling towards Moscow.

The tanks did stop "rolling towards Moscow"

Edited 21 July, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The tanks did stop "rolling towards Moscow"

Of their own accord. How many Wagner troops were killed or wounded during that excursion ?

[skintsaint]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Of their own accord. How many Wagner troops were killed or wounded during that excursion ?

Not sure on losses, but a decent bit of equipment lost.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/06/chefs-special-documenting-equipment.html

 

[buctootim]

One of the most impassioned speeches on defence of freedom and democracy I've ever seen by Giorgia Moroni, Italin PM 

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

One of the most impassioned speeches on defence of freedom and democracy I've ever seen by Giorgia Moroni, Italin PM 

 

You either have gravitas or you don't. She does. 

[whelk]

And she is turning out to be nothing like the far right bogey woman she was billed as. Compare her with the vacuous looping bot Sunak