Radio Solent Fans Forum

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Exactly that. Why are people changing what he said to make him sound worse, it's doing my head in.

I'm not changing what he said just stating that that's not how he comes across to me in most of his post match interviews.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think they'll go back to 4222 once we get these "tougher" fixtures out the way.

despite getting players in early, not shifting anyone of note, seems like we are firefighting

why?

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think they'll go back to 4222 once we get these "tougher" fixtures out the way.

Tough games it is not as if we are playing Man City, Liverpool & chelsea in the next 3.

We are playing a Leeds side that struggled last season, a leicester side that struggled last season(& have lost players), a Man U side that look to be struggling still under a new manager. Don't see why we should cower against them?

[S-Clarke]

10 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

His answer made pretty clear 5-3-2 is now the default formation. Had a whole blather of a justification of why 5-3-2 was better and that new players couldn't really adopt 4-2-2-2. The mention of 4-2-2-2 was extremely throwaway.

So he didn't say he'd abandoned 4-2-2-2 then.

If you listen back the explanation from the horses mouth was quite clear. 4-2-2-2 is difficult for new players to adjust to, providing a 5-3-2 structure makes it a little easier for them to ease into the team. I know some fans are looking at just the number 4-2-2-2 and saying ''any player should have been playing that as a kid'' - but it's not just about the tactical number, it's what you do on the ball and off the ball in that system which makes it unique. Things like pressing triggers are much more apparent in a 4-2-2-2 which take time to learn. 

As we all know, if you don't press together in an aggressive press such as 4-2-2-2 then you are destroyed, so everyone needs to buy into it and be ready for it. I know it's a bit weird saying that as we went 5-3-2 at the weekend and still got thumped, but that wasn't due to an over aggressive press it was us being too passive in the wide full back positions and allowing way too many crosses into the box.

Edited 10 August, 2022 by S-Clarke

[The Kraken]

I hope Ralph knows that 3-5-2/5-3-2 and 4-2-2-2 are not the only formations allowed in football.

[suewhistle]

On 09/08/2022 at 19:52, AlexLaw76 said:

If from the MET he’ll be taking the knee and dancing  with rainbow face paint on in no time

You don't keep up with the news much, do you? They'd probably be strip searching you after having tasered you.

Anyway, having read most of the thread with the usual unrealistic expectations ("yes, I agree Bednarek is utter sh*te") and misrepresentation, I've yet to read what the situation is on a new striker. We all (club/fans) know we need one, so what were the responses and vibes regarding that? Were there any specific questions as to when we will see ABK or Mara, and how far are they off being up to speed, etc.? Much as I'm interested in beer, women's football and JWP's testimonial there needs to be more time to address those issues.

 

[saint michael]

I got the impression he is doing what he believes in, high press, working with people he believes in.  Came across strongly that it’s about being in this league then doing best possible from there… so seems clear on the “what”. I didn’t walk away with any more confidence in the “how”. He was as clearly shocked by the poor run as we are but also not able to influence a change in that run..interesting that he mentioned Broja and younger ones looking around after having a few good games and mentioned their values. 
 

All in all my view hasn’t dramatically changed that he seems like a nice bloke doing what he believes to be the best…I’m just not sure I believe he is the right man to make  a sustainable change to make this group good enough and organised enough to cope with prem league. 

[Baird of the land]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

So he didn't say he'd abandoned 4-2-2-2 then.

If you listen back the explanation from the horses mouth was quite clear. 4-2-2-2 is difficult for new players to adjust to, providing a 5-3-2 structure makes it a little easier for them to ease into the team. I know some fans are looking at just the number 4-2-2-2 and saying ''any player should have been playing that as a kid'' - but it's not just about the tactical number, it's what you do on the ball and off the ball in that system which makes it unique. Things like pressing triggers are much more apparent in a 4-2-2-2 which take time to learn. 

As we all know, if you don't press together in an aggressive press such as 4-2-2-2 then you are destroyed, so everyone needs to buy into it and be ready for it. I know it's a bit weird saying that as we went 5-3-2 at the weekend and still got thumped, but that wasn't due to an over aggressive press it was us being too passive in the wide full back positions and allowing way too many crosses into the box.

If the players can pick up 5-3-2 so easily & effectively why did they fail abysmally to play it despite playing it all pre-season and the end of last season. Why not blood new players slowly if it takes time to adjust to 4-2-2-2

 

[Saint Garrett]

Just now, Baird of the land said:

If the players can pick up 5-3-2 so easily & effectively why did they fail abysmally to play it despite playing it all pre-season and the end of last season. Why not blood new players slowly if it takes time to adjust to 4-2-2-2

 

Because we clearly had issues last season, especially in the last 3 months of last season. If we'd gone 4222 with the players from last season, and got tonked 4-1 you'd be saying why did we not change the players, or why did we go so open against a top side.

[Baird of the land]

Just now, Saint Garrett said:

Because we clearly had issues last season, especially in the last 3 months of last season. If we'd gone 4222 with the players from last season, and got tonked 4-1 you'd be saying why did we not change the players, or why did we go so open against a top side.

We also won lots of games with those players playing 4-2-2-2 last season. We lost games playing 5 at the back last season too, one rather fortunate win against Arsenal aside.

 

 

[trousers]

I'm not sure what to make of tonight's Solent forum. I'm usually one of the positive gang on here (and often slated for being so by certain Saintsweb forum intelligentsia) but something about the vibe tonight didn't feel right. Can't put my finger on it but I just have a gut feel that 'things' are happening in the background. Don't ask me to justify these gut feelings as I won't be able to... they are just that... Gut feelings. 

Edited 10 August, 2022 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

If the players can pick up 5-3-2 so easily & effectively why did they fail abysmally to play it despite playing it all pre-season and the end of last season. Why not blood new players slowly if it takes time to adjust to 4-2-2-2

 

One of the criticisms fairly labelled towards Ralph has been his stubbornness to change the formation, notably his stubbornness to move from a 4-2-2-2. He's looked at last season and has clearly decided things need to change, so he's trying to create a more stable structure first and foremost which should allow for a better structure in both defending and attacking situations, but as with all these formational talks it does ultimately boil down to the quality of player you have in the positions across the pitch.

The weekend was a frustrating one, there were things in the 5-3-2 which showed why we tried it. For example I don't think Lavia would have had such an impressive game in a 4-2-2-2 for example, so that 5-3-2 allowed him to show up as well as he did. Our problem, in my opinion, was our wing backs and the passive nature of both the wing backs and the centre backs to come towards the ball when we were defending. We let too many crosses into the box, didn't defend them well enough when they did and sadly a player like Moussa (who isn't a defender) was ripped to pieces by a very, very good wide right player. 

I don't think one game is a reason to rip up every blue print and try all over again, but there will still be tweaks along the way with the overall aim of trying to combine the best of both worlds, and there will still be games where we feel 4-2-2-2 is the best fit for the opposition we're playing - we'll probably even change mid-game in some weeks. Fan's can't moan about his lack of change one week and then criticise him for changing the next.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

Everyone here was saying we should play Armstrong over Adams last week...

They really weren’t 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'm not sure what to make of tonight's forum. I'm usually one of the positive gang on here (and often slated for being so by certain forum intelligentsia) but something about the vibe tonight didn't feel right. Can't put my finger on it but I just have a gut feel that 'things' are happening in the background. Don't ask me to justify these guys feelings as I won't be able to... they are just that... Gut feelings. 

It was a strange vibe, but I think maybe negativity from the fan base fed those feelings? There was a genuine defensiveness from Martin though and I hadn't seen that before.

I also don't think an hour is long enough if they're going to merge the women's game into it. They either make it a longer forum or split the women into a dedicated one, as I think we didn't have enough really pressing questions on the ownership and their long-term plans of the 'group' project.

[SNSUN]

5-3-2 or whatever it is is all very good if coached well AND we have the players to play it. We need 3 good CBs, which we don't have. It also stunts the attack more because we lose a player in attack. Even if you cement ABK and Salisu in the back 3, you're still having to pick a third CB between Bednarek, Stephens, Lyanco and Valery. Or Simeu unless he goes back out on loan. 

 

I seem to remember we had this issue around the time we first got smashed 9-0. We were playing 3 at the back for a while and then got tonked, before Ralph started playing 4-2-2-2 and results picked up.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Sorry but Ralph never had to face

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'm not sure what to make of tonight's forum. I'm usually one of the positive gang on here (and often slated for being so by certain forum intelligentsia) but something about the vibe tonight didn't feel right. Can't put my finger on it but I just have a gut feel that 'things' are happening in the background. Don't ask me to justify these guys feelings as I won't be able to... they are just that... Gut feelings. 

I agree. Ralph looked very defensive and if you look at his eyes, he has been taking some shit I would suggest.

Didn't like the other two guys - just politician talk, not answering or allowing the hard questions.

 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

5-3-2 or whatever it is is all very good if coached well AND we have the players to play it. We need 3 good CBs, which we don't have. It also stunts the attack more because we lose a player in attack. Even if you cement ABK and Salisu in the back 3, you're still having to pick a third CB between Bednarek, Stephens, Lyanco and Valery. Or Simeu unless he goes back out on loan. 

 

I seem to remember we had this issue around the time we first got smashed 9-0. We were playing 3 at the back for a while and then got tonked, before Ralph started playing 4-2-2-2 and results picked up.

This is why I think we'll see ABK come into the team this weekend, he's perfect as a third CB in this formation just on his attributes alone.

But the lack of threat up top kinda echo's what Ralph was saying - we need that player up front who can make the difference, which we don't have at the moment. Everyone at the club has been pretty certain on the chances of that happening, we're obviously looking at the right level of players if 40-50-60m is being quoted (As in we can't pay that), so we'll just have to see how sit on the 2nd and I have full confidence that we'll look much better.

Whether that confidence is misguided, we'll have to wait and see!

Edited 10 August, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Baird of the land]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

The weekend was a frustrating one, there were things in the 5-3-2 which showed why we tried it. For example I don't think Lavia would have had such an impressive game in a 4-2-2-2 for example, so that 5-3-2 allowed him to show up as well as he did. Our problem, in my opinion, was our wing backs and the passive nature of both the wing backs and the centre backs to come towards the ball when we were defending. We let too many crosses into the box, didn't defend them well enough when they did and sadly a player like Moussa (who isn't a defender) was ripped to pieces by a very, very good wide right player.

But playing Lavia there meant we ended up with one of our most impressive players(in the first half of last season) Romeu looked like a fish up a tree in a bizarre role.

Wingbacks get exposed in the formation, it's not just djenepo. In the 4 they get support. We were just as bad in a 5 getting humbled by Burnley at the end of last season. So I don't see any progress in the formation.

 

[saintant]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It was a strange vibe, but I think maybe negativity from the fan base fed those feelings? There was a genuine defensiveness from Martin though and I hadn't seen that before.

I also don't think an hour is long enough if they're going to merge the women's game into it. They either make it a longer forum or split the women into a dedicated one, as I think we didn't have enough really pressing questions on the ownership and their long-term plans of the 'group' project.

But shouldn't a person in such a senior position as Semmens conduct himself in such a way as to not get sucked in by negativity from fans? He should be rising above that, selling the club and what they are doing and reassuring the fans not getting into petty spats with them.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

But shouldn't a person in such a senior position as Semmens conduct himself in such a way as to not get sucked in by negativity from fans? He should be rising above that, selling the club and what they are doing and reassuring the fans not getting into petty spats with them.

Yep exactly this. It was almost like he knew the negativity was justified and he is out of ideas and doesn't have a credible answer to it..

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

But shouldn't a person in such a senior position as Semmens conduct himself in such a way as to not get sucked in by negativity from fans? He should be rising above that, selling the club and what they are doing and reassuring the fans not getting into petty spats with them.

I agree, I don't think he came across particularly well at all to be honest. I'm sure he'll look back at that tomorrow and have some regrets!

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

But playing Lavia there meant we ended up with one of our most impressive players(in the first half of last season) Romeu looked like a fish up a tree in a bizarre role.

Wingbacks get exposed in the formation, it's not just djenepo. In the 4 they get support. We were just as bad in a 5 getting humbled by Burnley at the end of last season. So I don't see any progress in the formation.

 

I believe Ralph said in pre-season he likes Romeu further forward - fair enough then play 4-1-4-1 with Lavia in the DM role that he's natural in - heck Lavia could even drop back more defensively if the full backs get forward and almost make a third CB and BOSH there's the 5-3-2 Ralph wants to play. (Sorry too much FM). 

[S-Clarke]

8 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

But playing Lavia there meant we ended up with one of our most impressive players(in the first half of last season) Romeu looked like a fish up a tree in a bizarre role.

Wingbacks get exposed in the formation, it's not just djenepo. In the 4 they get support. We were just as bad in a 5 getting humbled by Burnley at the end of last season. So I don't see any progress in the formation.

 

It's a fair point, it does make you stretched down the flanks, but it doesn't help when one of the sides in particular is covered by someone who can't defend. Valery didn't help KWP at all either. It only takes a couple of players being a bit shit to show up all the flaws in any system to be honest.

I can see ABK and Perraud coming in at the weekend, might be wrong but I can see us going with it again.

[Baird of the land]

3 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I believe Ralph said in pre-season he likes Romeu further forward - fair enough then play 4-1-4-1 with Lavia in the DM role that he's natural in - heck Lavia could even drop back more defensively if the full backs get forward and almost make a third CB and BOSH there's the 5-3-2 Ralph wants to play. (Sorry too much FM). 

I find ralph's summer pronouncements insane. A 30yr old Stu Armstrong who has always been a midfielder is now a striker, a Dm is no longer an ideal DM but is now a roving AM.

Edited 10 August, 2022 by Baird of the land

[MarkSFC]

Listening to the forum was interesting and probably some of the best questions we've heard at these things. 

I am still of the opinion the Ralph should move on but I cannot question his dedication and passion for our club. 

I am hopeful but less convinced than I was before this forum that we will get players good enough despite the fact they alluded to "still being in the market". 

There seemed to be a strange tension at least to start with between Ralph and Martin and Ralph looked quite uncomfortable for much of it. 

Confidence lowered. 

[trousers]

20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It was a strange vibe, but I think maybe negativity from the fan base fed those feelings? There was a genuine defensiveness from Martin though and I hadn't seen that before.

I also don't think an hour is long enough if they're going to merge the women's game into it. They either make it a longer forum or split the women into a dedicated one, as I think we didn't have enough really pressing questions on the ownership and their long-term plans of the 'group' project.

Yep, it's all very noble expanding it to cover other teams at the club but they need to increase the duration accordingly. My preference would be for separate, more focused forums, for each team.

[nta786]

1 minute ago, MarkSFC said:

I am still of the opinion the Ralph should move on but I cannot question his dedication and passion for our club. 

There seemed to be a strange tension at least to start with between Ralph and Martin and Ralph looked quite uncomfortable for much of it. 

Confidence lowered. 

I’d be passionate as well if I’m earning £6m+ a year, where else is he going to get that.

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

So Ralph still blaming the players and taking zero responsibility while collecting a big fat wad for the privilege.

Liverpool away last year RH took the blame.

[FarehamSaintJames]

32 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It was a strange vibe, but I think maybe negativity from the fan base fed those feelings? There was a genuine defensiveness from Martin though and I hadn't seen that before.

I also don't think an hour is long enough if they're going to merge the women's game into it. They either make it a longer forum or split the women into a dedicated one, as I think we didn't have enough really pressing questions on the ownership and their long-term plans of the 'group' project.

Hit the nail on the head there.

I think something is happening behind the scenes. There was definitely an atmosphere with some of those answers given and a firm, politicians defence.

[Alan Sugarfree]

10 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Liverpool away last year RH took the blame.

That was in November last year. Pretty sure he should have shouldered some of the blame from March onwards.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

1 hour ago, Greenridge said:

We have an unhealthy amount of manic depressive bedwetters. That was what we learned from tonight’s forum. 

You can add biased, agenda-driven, unable to listen, with a startling lack of awareness of reality to the list too.

 

Embarrassing. 

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Liverpool away last year RH took the blame.

I'll give you that one.

[revolution saint]

Just watched it on YouTube. Bit boring, not very insightful but they never really are.

Only things I took from it is Broja definitely ain’t coming back. Second was Semmens wasn’t very clever with his comments on fans. Whenever I see players, managers or senior people at clubs talk in any way that might be critical of their fans it looks bad and they’re normally on their way out. Whatever you might think, you don’t say anything that could be critical of your customers. Not a good look.

Thought Ralph did OK considering everything. Still think time is up for him but don’t doubt his commitment or passion.

[Streaky]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Poor fans forum.

the tone was set about how grateful we should be just playing in the league. We can’t defend so need to play 5 at the back, and we have signed young players who need time to learn how to play 4222. However, being young is not a limiting factor, more about quality rather than experience. 
 

Ralph a little rattled and said it is not easy being saints manager, and the team have been a bit shit. Also, Broja just stopped being good from about March.

We are going down IMO. The stage was set about just being grateful to be playing in the league.

I though Big Adam was going to start crying at the start. Jesus wept!

Yeah we are going down with Ralph in charge. If he looks that broken when pocketing 6 million a year then it must be shit managing saints.

He's fell out with so many players no wonder they don't wanna play for him. Never felt this doomed since he's been here.

[Saint Garrett]

I'm not convinced he's on £6m a year tbh. Where has that come from apart from some random article in the sun, which they wouldnt know anyway.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Just watched it on YouTube. Bit boring, not very insightful but they never really are.

Only things I took from it is Broja definitely ain’t coming back. Second was Semmens wasn’t very clever with his comments on fans. Whenever I see players, managers or senior people at clubs talk in any way that might be critical of their fans it looks bad and they’re normally on their way out. Whatever you might think, you don’t say anything that could be critical of your customers. Not a good look.

Thought Ralph did OK considering everything. Still think time is up for him but don’t doubt his commitment or passion.

I think he was OK at points but I'd like to have seen him have slightly higher standards. 

[gammon cheeks]

Thought Semmens and that Toby bloke came across very arrogant to be honest .....dare i say it Semmens was a bit Rupert Lowe !

[Streaky]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

I'm not convinced he's on £6m a year tbh. Where has that come from apart from some random article in the sun, which they wouldnt know anyway.

More than 1 article I've seen it in. Dont really care if he's on 2m, that would be too much for him. He lost the dressing room along time ago. The longer we don't act the more doomed we will be.

[LGTL]

They clearly didn’t like being questioned and got on the defensive early. Apart from that it was a complete and utter waste of time as expected. We are in deep, deep shit this season. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, LGTL said:

They clearly didn’t like being questioned and got on the defensive early. Apart from that it was a complete and utter waste of time as expected. We are in deep, deep shit this season. 

It started terribly. A few mins of Adam waffling on, pushing back the tears (it seemed a tad gushing), before telling us all how grateful we should be even playing in this league.

acting like we really do not belong in the top flight, before blaming the fans for crowd trouble and performances.

It will be weeks before Adam manages to crawl out of their arseholes

Edited 10 August, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think they'll go back to 4222 once we get these "tougher" fixtures out the way.

But we got absolutely hammered playing another way. Why not just play the way we have done when we've been successful? 

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

Thought Semmens and that Toby bloke came across very arrogant to be honest .....dare i say it Semmens was a bit Rupert Lowe !

Yeah that Toby made himself look a right Toby with his comments on fans behaviour. There are regularly away fans on the boxes above the itchen north giving it large and they never get ejected, but the saints fans do who give it back. You’d solve half the supposed issues by not allowing them in that area 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It started of terribly. A few mins of Adam waffling on, pushing back the tears (it seemed a tad gushing), before telling us all how grateful we should be even playing in this league.

acting like we really do not belong in the top flight, before blaming the fans for crowd trouble and performances.

It will be weeks before Adam manages to crawl out of their arseholes

In fairness there were a few sedentary questions but some shite ones too. I thought Ralph came across alright, thought semmens sounded smug and Steele a bit clueless 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Turkish said:

In fairness there were a few sedentary questions but some shite ones too. I thought Ralph came across alright, thought semmens sounded smug and Steele a bit clueless 

The first question was from a right whopper

how patronising to tell the room to give a round of applause to the ladies team. Cheers mate

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

 thought semmens sounded smug and Steele a bit clueless 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Here he goes again, for ironed out earlier today once again and coming back for more. You’re like the over the hill boxer who doesn’t know when you quit, the Danny Williams of football forums aren’t you petal

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The first question was from a right whopper

how patronising to tell the room to give a round of applause to the ladies team. Cheers mate

The last ten minutes taken up talking about Prowses testimonial and encouraging the fans to watch the womens team during the World Cup break 🤦

[Lord Duckhunter]

Where does this “grateful to be in the league” pony come from. I’m 50 fucking 7 and we’ve been in it most of my supporting life. I don’t take it for granted, and I’ve been lucky, but stop with this noddy mentality. We’re a top 25 club, we’re not particularly overachieving by being in the top 20. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Roger said:

Agree terrible completely out of touch. Thought it was rubbish tbh tonight. 

I don't think that was a bad comment. His poibt was that he can relate to what it's like to go around the country to watch the team. Yes he gets paid but that wasn't an unreasonable comment. 

[Saint Garrett]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

But we got absolutely hammered playing another way. Why not just play the way we have done when we've been successful? 

Because we have got results playing 3 at the back last season. Against city home and away for example. Arsenal home. It’s not like we have never played well in that system.