Summer Transfer Window 2023

[Smirking_Saint]

25 minutes ago, saintant said:

Can I ask then why only clubs in the Championship take it seriously? That seems a weird conception to me. Surely either every club has to stick by FFP rules or we agree it's a free for all for everyone.

Its the league not clubs, basically the prem seems to just pay lip service to it

[S-Clarke]

On one had you have a group of fans saying we need to spend all £100m+ now, we need to invest tomorrow etc.

and on the other hand you have a group of fans saying that we're skint, we can't spend any money etc etc.

Neither are true, the truth is likely to be somewhere firmly in the middle. We can spend money and we will do on the right players (PL loans aren't free by the way, so loans shouldn't be seen as a cheap option), but equally we're not going to be spending £30-40m on players in the Championship.

We are also not skint. The ownership have been fairly clear that financially they will continue to support us, you have all seen the numerous raises of shares to pump more cash into the club - so we're not skint by any means.

We're never going to be a club that flashes cash like Newcastle, West Ham etc. We sit firmly in the Brighton and Brentford bracket and you get much more satisfaction over those sorts of signings imo. All our big money signings have been total fails, bar Ings.

[gio1saints]

I am confident we will not repeat historical mistake of being striker-lite or wrong type striker in at close of window.

If the signings of Holgate and Fraser are anything to go by even a Loan striker rather than a purchase would not surprise either. RM has repeatedly said if Che leaves he will be replaced- and I don’t think he meant Mara. But he might have done. Don’t think he was being disingenuous there. Straight talking so far and refreshing to boot! 
 

[The Kraken]

24 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

I think where Hypo is coming from is the critical positions, like CF last year. That still needs to happen if Adams is off. Need that goals scorer to help push for promotion. 

I think we all know this. Including the manager, who has said that he wants to keep Che, but if he leaves he will be replaced. I’d say pessimism comes from stating as fact/expectation that a replacement will not be up to scratch, or that the performances of the newbies so far haven’t been that good. As egg points out, the players in so far have all made a very positive impression so far. Signings so far have been very good and very promising, it’s early days of course but a world away from last season where we started with a whimper and just fizzled out from there.

Edited 28 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[egg]

21 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

I think where Hypo is coming from is the critical positions, like CF last year. That still needs to happen if Adams is off. Need that goals scorer to help push for promotion. 

I was talking about the signings so far. 

[The Kraken]

.

Edited 28 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[manji]

16 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I just don't get this love for Ings - he's injury prone and hasn't really been prolific since he left us. Surely we can be a little more imaginative....

I may be wrong but didn’t he make derogatory comments about Saints as well.

[Challenger]

16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

On one had you have a group of fans saying we need to spend all £100m+ now, we need to invest tomorrow etc.

and on the other hand you have a group of fans saying that we're skint, we can't spend any money etc etc.

Neither are true, the truth is likely to be somewhere firmly in the middle. We can spend money and we will do on the right players (PL loans aren't free by the way, so loans shouldn't be seen as a cheap option), but equally we're not going to be spending £30-40m on players in the Championship.

We are also not skint. The ownership have been fairly clear that financially they will continue to support us, you have all seen the numerous raises of shares to pump more cash into the club - so we're not skint by any means.

We're never going to be a club that flashes cash like Newcastle, West Ham etc. We sit firmly in the Brighton and Brentford bracket and you get much more satisfaction over those sorts of signings imo. All our big money signings have been total fails, bar Ings.

Would be interesting to know what percentage of " the big money fails" were late window panic buys.

Sure someone on here has the stats.

[SNSUN]

6 minutes ago, Challenger said:

Would be interesting to know what percentage of " the big money fails" were late window panic buys.

Sure someone on here has the stats.

I don't think January windows have been particularly kind to us without looking at the facts.

[coalman]

4 minutes ago, Challenger said:

Would be interesting to know what percentage of " the big money fails" were late window panic buys.

Sure someone on here has the stats.

Fairer to say all our expensive last minute panic buys have been fails. The only one who might break that sequence is Sulemana and the jury is still out there.

[hypochondriac]

59 minutes ago, egg said:

I suppose it might be if you're a pessimist. Personally, I like what I've seen so far of Manning, Charles, Fraser and Downes and can only imagine they'll etc better. Holgate will be decent too imo. 

It's all for naught if we don't effectively replace our attack. 

[miserableoldgit]

Just now, coalman said:

Fairer to say all our expensive last minute panic buys have been fails. The only one who might break that sequence is Sulemana and the jury is still out there.

Weren't VVD and Mane last minute?

[manji]

1 hour ago, SaintsFan86 said:

This was said exactly at the Fans Forum too, and yet people just don't listen.

That was the ex Dyson fella Phil Parsons. Was impressed with him , explained it very clearly. Either some don’t pay attention or are too feeble to understand these statements.

[Saint_Ash]

We are also not privvy to the payment structures of our player sales. Lavia, for example, has signed a 7 year contract at Chelsea, this could mean we get the initial £53m  over 7 years, I hope not but I think that is how some of these deals work, especially to get around FFP rules. Hardly means we have a war chest. Yes it's also relative and we'll be doing similar structures but we don't want to be putting players on long contracts that we don't know will be able to perform in the Prem. 

We won't see us spending much over the next week compared to the inlay but I'd be surprised if we don't spend £15m - £20m combined on 2 to 3 players. 

 

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Weren't VVD and Mane last minute?

VVD had been lined up for ages.

Mane joined on 1st September though not sure how much of a panic buy it was because Koeman clearly had a list of targets in mind when he joined.

[The Kraken]

11 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I don't think January windows have been particularly kind to us without looking at the facts.

Just been looking at it, confirmed my memory that (last season aside) Saints haven’t been very big at all in January window incomings. Last season saw the Tall Pall fiasco et al but then you’re back to the Guido Carillo debacle for much else before that. Then going backwards Manillo Gabbiadini (good), Charlie Austin (meh), Ryan Bertrand (very decent), and Vegard Forren (anonymous) are the main signings we’ve made since promotion to the PL in 2012.

So, a mixed bag, I’d say punctuated by how few players we brought in especially the 4 years post 2017-18 when we brought nobody of note in.

 

Edited 28 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, coalman said:

VVD had been lined up for ages.

Mane joined on 1st September though not sure how much of a panic buy it was because Koeman clearly had a list of targets in mind when he joined.

Ahh ok, but obviously that doesn’t apply to this window if we buy late because clearly Koeman was all knowing and these lot are chancers

[Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, Saint_Ash said:

We are also not privvy to the payment structures of our player sales. Lavia, for example, has signed a 7 year contract at Chelsea, this could mean we get the initial £53m  over 7 years, I hope not but I think that is how some of these deals work, especially to get around FFP rules. Hardly means we have a war chest. Yes it's also relative and we'll be doing similar structures but we don't want to be putting players on long contracts that we don't know will be able to perform in the Prem. 

We won't see us spending much over the next week compared to the inlay but I'd be surprised if we don't spend £15m - £20m combined on 2 to 3 players. 

 

The cost of a fee is spread over the number of years of a contract, irrespective of cashflow profile.

Whether Chelsea paid cash £53m upfront, or over seven years, would have no bearing on how the £53m is reflected at ~£7.5m p.a. in Chelsea's P&L / FFP calcs.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Jimbo said:

The cost of a fee is spread over the number of years of a contract, irrespective of cashflow profile.

Whether Chelsea paid cash £53m upfront, or over seven years, would have no bearing on how the £53m is reflected at ~£7.5m p.a. in Chelsea's P&L / FFP calcs.

FFP can only be amortised over 5 years, that particular loophole was closed fairly recently (after Chelsea started giving out hyper extended contracts).

[Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

FFP can only be amortised over 5 years, that particular loophole was closed fairly recently (after Chelsea started giving out hyper extended contracts).

from next year, not this year.

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Ahh ok, but obviously that doesn’t apply to this window if we buy late because clearly Koeman was all knowing and these lot are chancers

I guess it depends on your definition of panic buy. How would you describe it?

[The Kraken]

👍

Edited 28 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[S-Clarke]

One name linked with us -

Quote

 

Leeds in talks with Spurs over Spence loan deal

Leeds are in talks with Tottenham over a potential loan deal for Djed Spence. 

 

This could equal a domino though, as we are keen on Leeds right back Cody Drameh.

[davefizzy14]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

One name linked with us -

This could equal a domino though, as we are keen on Leeds right back Cody Drameh.

I reckon we will bring in either Djed Spence or Ben Johnson on loan to cover at fullback with Perraud departing. I could see Larios going out on loan to regain full fitness too. 

Edited 28 August, 2023 by davefizzy14

[davefizzy14]

[The Kraken]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

One name linked with us -

This could equal a domino though, as we are keen on Leeds right back Cody Drameh.

I thought I’d read before that Drameh was a bit more of a long term prospect rather than this season, and we were happy to wait for him until January or next summer. Think I read that somewhere.

Edit: here it is, supposedly from Fabrizio Romano, says Drameh is out of contract next year and we may be happy to wait.

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/cody-drameh-news-daniel-farke-on-players-future-at-leeds-united-southampton-interest-emerges/

Edited 28 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[S-Clarke]

Just now, davefizzy14 said:

I reckon we will bring in either Djed Spence or Ben Johnson on loan to cover at fullback.

I don't think we'll be signing a fullback unless KWP goes - we do have Manning, KWP, Bree, Larios, Meghoma and Holgate who can play there atm.

So whoever is our full back signing will be our first choice right back - I think we see Cody as that guy.

[Appy]

7 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Not sure where @Im_Jammmyyy gets his valuations from 

[Chez]

30 minutes ago, coalman said:

VVD had been lined up for ages.

Mane joined on 1st September though not sure how much of a panic buy it was because Koeman clearly had a list of targets in mind when he joined.

could you not say that about the majority, if not all of last minute signings that they were `lined up' or `on our list of targets'? There will be the odd late opportunity that we hadn't been considering/bidding for, but deadline day doesn't always mean unscouted/unplanned/last car on the lot etc.

[saintant]

49 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

One name linked with us -

This could equal a domino though, as we are keen on Leeds right back Cody Drameh.

Why don't we just go for Jed Spence who looks the much better option. Leeds have already possibly stolen a march on us with Piroe, we need to be getting in ahead of our competitors not standing back. I get that a lot of this is just football gossip but I hope we are not freeing up a player Leeds maybe don't want so they can go after Spence who should be on our radar.

Edited 28 August, 2023 by saintant

[Baird of the land]

23 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think we'll be signing a fullback unless KWP goes - we do have Manning, KWP, Bree, Larios, Meghoma and Holgate who can play there atm.

So whoever is our full back signing will be our first choice right back - I think we see Cody as that guy.

Would be bizarre to me to flog our quality RB and replace with a Leeds fringe player who at the weekend was hauled off at HT for his performance, after only coming on in 24th minute. If we're after him it should only be as a bree replacement.

[revolution saint]

10 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Would be bizarre to me to flog our quality RB and replace with a Leeds fringe player who at the weekend was hauled off at HT for his performance, after only coming on in 24th minute. If we're after him it should only be as a bree replacement.

TBF Leeds played Drameh at left back instead of right back but I agree - he had a reasonable spell at Luton last season but nothing spectacular.  I'd be very surprised if we considered him a first choice right back.

[Saint_clark]

14 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Does that say loan with option to buy? Would have been good to get a fee for him this summer as we would have upgraded signing Manning and made some money doing so.

Not sure why people are reacting with confused faces to this. Letting him go on loan doesn't benefit us at all. Our squad is weaker and we have no funds to reinvest. 

[Winchester Red]

Most Loans involve fees as well.  Some might only be wages but not many.  

They're really no different to buying someone on a one year contract before giving them back to the parent club after.  If there's a compulsory purchase tied in (DCC?) then it's simply a way of structuring cash flow rather than amortising over the true contract length.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Letting him go on loan doesn't benefit us at all. Our squad is weaker and we have no funds to reinvest. 

Nice will know him inside and out. Not sure why we agreed to a loan - I guess we had no other offers. If they wanted him, make them buy him. Losing him off the wage bill is still good as you can reinvest those wages, which might be £30k a week.

I doubt we will bring another left back in, but if we intend to then we should try for Omar Richards at Forrest. Another player like Downes that was too good for the championship but hasn't pinned a Prem place down yet. Was injured all last season, but I think may be fit now. Very good technically and would suit our style or having an attacking left back.

[Chez]

44 minutes ago, saintant said:

Why don't we just go for Jed Spence who looks the much better option. Leeds have already possibly stolen a march on us with Piroe, we need to be getting in ahead of our competitors not standing back. I get that a lot of this is just football gossip but I hope we are not freeing up a player Leeds maybe don't want so they can go after Spence who should be on our radar.

mentioned it a couple of times on here, the only concern with Spence is that he played so well at Forrest as a wing back and not a right back in a four man defence.

Edited 28 August, 2023 by Chez

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, manji said:

That was the ex Dyson fella Phil Parsons. Was impressed with him , explained it very clearly. Either some don’t pay attention or are too feeble to understand these statements.

Am loving this new Manji, you went through the explanation phase now your in the insult phase 🤣

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

I thought I’d read before that Drameh was a bit more of a long term prospect rather than this season, and we were happy to wait for him until January or next summer. Think I read that somewhere.

Edit: here it is, supposedly from Fabrizio Romano, says Drameh is out of contract next year and we may be happy to wait.

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/cody-drameh-news-daniel-farke-on-players-future-at-leeds-united-southampton-interest-emerges/

Didnt drameh last like 25mins v Ipswich before Farke substituted him ?

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Why don't we just go for Jed Spence who looks the much better option. Leeds have already possibly stolen a march on us with Piroe, we need to be getting in ahead of our competitors not standing back. I get that a lot of this is just football gossip but I hope we are not freeing up a player Leeds maybe don't want so they can go after Spence who should be on our radar.

We won’t sign Spence unless we sell KWP, and he won’t come here if KWP is here.. so it is what it is

Edit - Id also be stunned if they get him for any sort of respectable fee, Id imagine it’ll be a loan and in Sours case Levy would rather die then sanction a deal that isn’t 99% in Spurs favour

Edited 28 August, 2023 by Smirking_Saint

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

I guess it depends on your definition of panic buy. How would you describe it?

Its not my explanation, you clearly stated that the Mane/VVD buys were defined and monitored for a while but any other signings probably were not

The only real panic buys are probably Onuachu and Carillo, which funilly enough were both bought in to try to prop up a failing manager.. I just cant see that being the case this time

[Smirking_Saint]

40 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Not sure why people are reacting with confused faces to this. Letting him go on loan doesn't benefit us at all. Our squad is weaker and we have no funds to reinvest. 

There will be a fee to it, they’re subsidising wages and as already stated we’ve already signed Manning as his replacement

Genuinely not sure how some of you survive day to day life if you flap this much about our football team, and in this case one of our 4 LBs (5 if you include KWP)

[SNSUN]

If KWP does go (and he's the one I've wanted to keep all summer but I can understand bigger clubs wanting him) then the acquisition I'd like in his place is Ben Johnson. Defensively he's very good from the little I've seen of him, not as attacking as KWP though. More of a Wan Bissaka than a Trent as right backs go. But he's been West Ham's young player of the year twice and I think he'd be very good here. Versatile too, like KWP.

Of course ultimately I hope we keep KWP!

[david in sweden]

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people still think that because a player cost little - or nothing at all - he is automatically... sh*t.

Historically ..The vast majority of our best players cost us no more than the player's salary.  This list is endless. Paine, Sydenham, Chivers, Channon ...etc.

and many of " big money " signings in the last 30 years weren't worth the ink in the pen on their contracts. .Ramirez, Osvaldo, Hoedt, Carrillo, Onuacho? ..et al...

whilst others who came as free transfers / Bosman signings included Dean Richards, and Hassan Katchloul... (who walked in off the street - and asked for trial).

 

The list of our own youth players has been well-publicised and probably begun (before Walcott and Bale) with young Wayne Bridge ..(later 6 million to Chelsea)

MLT is in their somewhere along with Alan Shearer, the Wallace's and ....and more recently; Shaw, Targett, Chambers, Reed...... and " that Ward-Prowse fellow ".

Some who were rejected by other clubs and came to Saints included Cork and Bertrand (both were loaned out by Chelsea 5-6 times) before finally signing for us. 

I guess Tino and Lavia (both signed for relatively small fees ) and now even Nathan Tella  are examples of the latest crop.

 

Many of those we are selling now initially cost very little, but need to be sold to cover (the debts) incurred in buying expensive misfits not worth their salt.

Spending BIG money on players guarantees NOTHING...as Spurs and Chelsea have found to their cost, whilst those like Rickie Lambert cost a mere one million 

(RL - a one time non-league player promoted to L1 ) before coming to us ...grew into his role over time, and later ended up as an England striker. 

The proof of a players true value is shown in every 90+ minutes he plays, and if he cost a small fee, or even nothing at all, it is a bonus for the club.

 

In all honesty ....after 60+ years as a Saints fan....the larger the fee we pay out for someone.. .the more I anticipate inevitable failure. 

Edited 28 August, 2023 by david in sweden

[Saint Scott]

Paintsil back on?

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

7 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Paintsil back on?

"When I saw how many forwards Leeds have and Tella had left Southampton, I thought I'd rather go somewhere where I might get a game..."

[FarehamSaintJames]

8 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Paintsil back on?

Probably his agent putting his name out there

[WALK DMC]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

TBF Leeds played Drameh at left back instead of right back but I agree - he had a reasonable spell at Luton last season but nothing spectacular.  I'd be very surprised if we considered him a first choice right back.

The season before he spent half a season at Cardiff and was voted their player of the year (only played 22 games ...).  Would be nice to get him as cover for KWP this season, so he could step up next summer if KWP departs. 

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people still think that because a player cost little - or nothing at all - he is automatically... sh*t.

Historically ..The vast majority of our best players cost us no more than the player's salary.  This list is endless. Paine, Sydenham, Chivers, Channon ...etc.

and many of " big money " signings in the last 30 years weren't worth the ink in the pen on their contracts. .Ramirez, Osvaldo, Hoedt, Carrillo, Onuacho? ..et al...

whilst others who came as free transfers / Bosman signings included Dean Richards, and Hassan Katchloul... (who walked in off the street - and asked for trial).

 

The list of our own youth players has been well-publicised and probably begun (before Walcott and Bale) with young Wayne Bridge ..(later 6 million to Chelsea)

MLT is in their somewhere along with Alan Shearer, the Wallace's and ....and more recently; Shaw, Targett, Chambers, Reed...... and " that Ward-Prowse fellow ".

Some who were rejected by other clubs and came to Saints included Cork and Bertrand (both were loaned out by Chelsea 5-6 times) before finally signing for us. 

I guess Tino and Lavia (both signed for relatively small fees ) and now even Nathan Tella  are examples of the latest crop.

 

Many of those we are selling now initially cost very little, but need to be sold to cover (the debts) incurred in buying expensive misfits not worth their salt.

Spending BIG money on players guarantees NOTHING...as Spurs and Chelsea have found to their cost, whilst those like Rickie Lambert cost a mere one million 

(RL - a one time non-league player promoted to L1 ) before coming to us ...grew into his role over time, and later ended up as an England striker. 

The proof of a players true value is shown in every 90+ minutes he plays, and if he cost a small fee, or even nothing at all, it is a bonus for the club.

 

In all honesty ....after 60+ years as a Saints fan....the larger the fee we pay out for someone.. .the more I anticipate inevitable failure. 

Almost makes you wonder why Man City spent all that money building a treble winning side when they could have been shopping in the bargain basement bin 🙂

[S-Clarke]

Ah, silly season well and truly on.

Translated - UPDATE Paintsil: Winger has announced that he

@KRCGenkofficial

don't want to leave this summer. Not for Leeds and not for any other club.

[Saint Matty 76]

Can't say I care either way for Paintsil, but if it's a deal where we get him in place of Onuachu then it literally can't go wrong.