Kamaldeen Sulemana

[sambosa75]

How much did this lad cost us?

Is there anything he’s offered us so far that Tella, Edozie, Walcott or even Djenepo couldn’t have done?  If there is, I haven’t seen it.

Him and Onuacho have got to go down as two of the most expensive, pointless panic buys in our history.  Absolutely dreadful.  Not necessarily their fault but as a club we don’t seem to have a clue what to do with them.

 

 

 

Edited 16 March, 2023 by sambosa75

[Archers Road Stand]

He's absolutely shocking. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

How much did this lad cost us?

Is there anything he’s offered us so far that Tella, Edozie, Walcott or even Djenepo couldn’t have done?  If there is, I haven’t seen it.

Him and Onuacho have got to go down as two of the most expensive, pointless panic buys in our history.  Absolutely dreadful.  Not necessarily their fault but as a club we don’t seem to have a clue what to do with them.

 

 

 

That’s because the coaching is not good enough. There’s some sort of policy clearly insisting on the same slow build up play, re-cycling the ball between the midfield and CB’s, hardly ever threading in a through ball or putting one over the top for Sulemana to run onto. It’s been like this for years and at least three managers. Why?

[Badger]

He’s a flair player, or so we expect. Probably all fancy footwork and  no end product.

You’d have hoped Les and Wilson took their recruitment guide and Black Box with them. If they have then the Rasmus name generator doesn’t seem any better. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Exciting but then panic and a wild slash at the ball as an end product.

[Mr Saints]

What a waste of time and money he looks. £20mil for a player that goes sideways and backwards and has zero end product, we already 7 or 8 of those!

[JRM]

The only "record signing" I ever remember being worth it was Ings, for some reason whenever Saints spend big (by our standards) we end up with a dud. 

[Pamplemousse]

He was brilliant in the first half against Wolves. Hasn't looked as good since, which makes me wonder what we've been doing in training. And we can't blame Nathan Jones

[gammon cheeks]

Should have kept Redmond to be honest not the greatest but better than wasting millions on Edozie , Sulemana , Orsic who are just worse .

[Wade Garrett]

His game is totally unsuited to the slow, safe, ponderous football we play under Ralph Selles.

Really not his fault.

[Millbrook Saint]

I thought he played well yesterday, made a few good interceptions due to his speed, always made himself available for the ball, ran at their defences, trouble is he had no one to pass to and we were so slow there was never any space available

Edited 16 March, 2023 by Millbrook Saint

[Ex Lion Tamer]

He was only a sub at Rennes. He may have potential but it was visible a mile off that he wasn't going to come in and improve our team

[Ex Lion Tamer]

A year in the Championship might be good for him though

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

He was brilliant in the first half against Wolves. Hasn't looked as good since, which makes me wonder what we've been doing in training. And we can't blame Nathan Jones

Doesn't this seem to be a reoccurring theme of every attacking player we've bought over the last few years?

Start well, look exciting and then become this scared risk adverse player unable to make an impact. (Moussa, Armstrong, Diallo, Aribo, Mara...the list goes on.)

[Appy]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Doesn't this seem to be a reoccurring theme of every attacking player we've bought over the last few years?

Start well, look exciting and then become this scared risk adverse player unable to make an impact. (Moussa, Armstrong, Diallo, Aribo, Mara...the list goes on.)

This lad seems to have skipped the start well stage. 

[S-Clarke]

14 minutes ago, Appy said:

This lad seems to have skipped the start well stage. 

Somewhat agreed, but I won't be going in on him anytime soon. I reckon he's got genuine talent but you have to appreciate that he's come into a totally dysfunctional group, it's not amazing environment for anyone to flourish right now.

People were burnt from writing off Mane too soon (I remember the comments after the Sheffield United cup game), so it would be daft to do similar here.

[OttawaSaint]

Never thought I'd say this but our current 10s aren't fit to lace Redmond's boots.

How utterly depressing.

[saintrich]

He has been fine so far.

The sideways and backwards comment applies to everyone in last night's game and that is a result of coming up against a robust, well organised side who aren't very adventurous in terms of deviating from position. The same applies to the Leeds game who were also set up more solid under their new manager than perhaps previous. That is a collective team/set up/mentality problem of us against sides that sit back, not a Sulemana problem. 

He looked good against Wolves and has shown glimpses in other games (having a decent chance early on vs Chelsea, playing a good through ball to Walcott vs Man Utd, absolutely skinning Perreira vs Leicester.)

His acceleration over short distance is frighteningly quick, clearly the jury is still out on end product, but there are far more problems to worry about in our side than him at this stage.

I would like to see him in the side with Stu or Aribo rather than Moi, Walcott etc.

 

 

[Halo Stickman]

I’m not particularly referring to Sulemana—I suppose it’s possible he might yet come good—but following another miserable result last night I was thinking about our recruitment record, not just over the last year but over the last several years. What is the ratio of our successful versus unsuccessful purchases, especially when it comes to our larger financial outlays? I don’t really take enough interest in what other clubs are doing to actually be able to judge how our recruitment compares, but right at this moment it feels like we must be pretty low down the success-rate scale.

[Micky]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

A year in the Championship might be good for him though

He'll be there a damn site longer than that if he stays with us! 

[Saintscummer]

14 minutes ago, saintrich said:

He has been fine so far.

The sideways and backwards comment applies to everyone in last night's game and that is a result of coming up against a robust, well organised side who aren't very adventurous in terms of deviating from position. The same applies to the Leeds game who were also set up more solid under their new manager than perhaps previous. That is a collective team/set up/mentality problem of us against sides that sit back, not a Sulemana problem. 

He looked good against Wolves and has shown glimpses in other games (having a decent chance early on vs Chelsea, playing a good through ball to Walcott vs Man Utd, absolutely skinning Perreira vs Leicester.)

His acceleration over short distance is frighteningly quick, clearly the jury is still out on end product, but there are far more problems to worry about in our side than him at this stage.

I would like to see him in the side with Stu or Aribo rather than Moi, Walcott etc.

 

 

Totally agree. I thought he looked our best player last night. Particularly from an attacking perspective. If his crossing improved he would be a star. But then there was rarely anybody in the box to pick out. 
 

for me, we were too defensive last night with two holding midfield players being one to many. Actually thought Diallo was good last night but himself and JWP were too deep. We don’t have runners from midfield and high we need as the forwards don’t score. 

[sambosa75]

I get extremely nervous when we spend north of £20m on a player.  For us to do so, that player has to improve the side significantly.  Not blend into the dirge that we already have, which is basically what he has done.  It then just becomes a valid excuse for the leadership not to invest any further in the squad. 

[John Boy Saint]

Personally think he is alright - it’s what’s around him being the problem - some comparing to Redmond, when he had the ball players were trying to guess what Nathan was going to do next with the ball next. Sat in the ground last night there were a few times when Sulemana was waiting for a ream mate to show for him.

[beatlesaint]

I dont think he's bad, ive seen worse.....one of them was wearing No. 24 shirt last night.

Its not the lads fault he's come into a squad where the only thing they do with a small degree of competence is pass the ball sideways and back. thats not great when you are a pacey forward looking to run past defenders.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Halo Stickman said:

I’m not particularly referring to Sulemana—I suppose it’s possible he might yet come good—but following another miserable result last night I was thinking about our recruitment record, not just over the last year but over the last several years. What is the ratio of our successful versus unsuccessful purchases, especially when it comes to our larger financial outlays? I don’t really take enough interest in what other clubs are doing to actually be able to judge how our recruitment compares, but right at this moment it feels like we must be pretty low down the success-rate scale.

The thing is, the nature of our model means we shouldn't really judge most of these players until they've been with us for a couple of seasons. The trouble is they're being thrown straight in and expected to get us out of a relegation battle 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, saintrich said:

He has been fine so far.

The sideways and backwards comment applies to everyone in last night's game and that is a result of coming up against a robust, well organised side who aren't very adventurous in terms of deviating from position. The same applies to the Leeds game who were also set up more solid under their new manager than perhaps previous. That is a collective team/set up/mentality problem of us against sides that sit back, not a Sulemana problem. 

He looked good against Wolves and has shown glimpses in other games (having a decent chance early on vs Chelsea, playing a good through ball to Walcott vs Man Utd, absolutely skinning Perreira vs Leicester.)

His acceleration over short distance is frighteningly quick, clearly the jury is still out on end product, but there are far more problems to worry about in our side than him at this stage.

I would like to see him in the side with Stu or Aribo rather than Moi, Walcott etc.

 

 

This was a problem under Ralph and its a problem for us again under Selles. The pressing game is great against a team that comes forward because you can disposess them quickly and break. 

Breaking down teams that come to St Mary's and sit back was a problem under Puel as well, come to think of it, although not in that case because he played a high press.

[Stu Man Do]

If Nathan Redmond put in these performances he’d be getting hammered. He’s been less than average bar a couple of take ons that have looked ok.

No better than Edozie and in less good form than Tella who we could have brought back and saved  ourselves 20million.

[Ed Rooney]

Fuckin hell it’s a Sadio Mane deja vu.

Early days ffs 

[Baird of the land]

Seems the sort of player we spent double the amount you’d pay in the summer.

he’s got pace but that’s about all that has impressed me about him. Impressed me more than edozie but that isn’t saying much.

mainly i’m Just annoyed we didn’t recall our own very pacey player from his impressive loan spell rather than overspend on sulemana.

[Saint_clark]

There is very obviously something there. Him and Onuachu are in the unenviable position of trying to perform whilst gelling and adapting in an underperforming side in a much more difficult league than they've ever played before. 

I think Sulemana specifically is suffering right now from wanting to prove himself so much that his first, second and third options are always to try and get a shot away before he even thinks about a pass. His left footed crossing is also terrible, i'd stick him out on the right. 

I hope we keep him if we go down as I think he'll come good for us in the end, and I think he'd absolutely destroy the championship.

[Whitey Grandad]

He seems to panic when he has a chance of a shot and takes a wild slash at the ball. That opportunity that he had late on Wednesday for a shot on goal ended up somewhere in the Kingsland. At least I think it did. I completely lost sight of it.

[ally_uk]

Djenepo Mk 2.0 all the tricks and no end product.... 

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Djenepo Mk 2.0 all the tricks and no end product.... 

Djenepo does score the occasional goal and should have had a penalty against Grimsby. At the moment I know which of the two I prefer.

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He seems to panic when he has a chance of a shot and takes a wild slash at the ball. That opportunity that he had late on Wednesday for a shot on goal ended up somewhere in the Kingsland. At least I think it did. I completely lost sight of it.

It didn't actually go out of play, think it fell for Bree (but I could be wrong) who put a dreadful cross back in. But it was a dreadful attempted strike.

[saintwbu]

6 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It didn't actually go out of play, think it fell for Bree (but I could be wrong) who put a dreadful cross back in. But it was a dreadful attempted strike.

Think it actually hit Che who was offside 

[saintant]

21 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

This was a problem under Ralph and its a problem for us again under Selles. The pressing game is great against a team that comes forward because you can disposess them quickly and break. 

Breaking down teams that come to St Mary's and sit back was a problem under Puel as well, come to think of it, although not in that case because he played a high press.

You think we play a pressing game? You're seeing something different from me. I would love us to play a proper pressing game but we don't - we play a slow build up that creates nothing. Get back to the high press.

[Ted Bates Statue]

23 hours ago, Halo Stickman said:

I’m not particularly referring to Sulemana—I suppose it’s possible he might yet come good—but following another miserable result last night I was thinking about our recruitment record, not just over the last year but over the last several years. What is the ratio of our successful versus unsuccessful purchases, especially when it comes to our larger financial outlays? I don’t really take enough interest in what other clubs are doing to actually be able to judge how our recruitment compares, but right at this moment it feels like we must be pretty low down the success-rate scale.

My personal rule of thumb is I reckon that for any team if 50% of the transfers work out, then it's a decent transfer window.

Definition of 'work out' is going to vary hugely according to individual interpretation but 'doing a job for us' would do for me. Extra points if it meant a sale for profit but it's not really the sole aim, is it. If it means we need to sign a Billy Sharp for 6 months to get promoted but he barely features in the league above, the ends justify the means. Same as Danny Fox to cover the 12 months before we decided Luke Shaw was ready. What it definitely doesn't mean is 'Moi is still here after 5 years and used by many different managers, so he has been good for us as we slide down the league'.

As long as there are enough decent signings over a sustained time period, that is what gets teams through tough times and fallow periods. Our problem as others have pointed out many times already is that the recent substantial investment has followed an extended period of existing on a relative shoestring. The fact that we've relied so long on defenders who get nowhere near the matchday XI at our competitors (Vest, Bertrand, Bednarek; Stephens the only exception) supports this.

As I said before, perceptions may vary but if we were to look back over the last 20 years, I reckon most of us would be unanimous on the successful windows where we beat the 50% rule comfortably. At a guess, maybe 3 times... when Liebherr took over and we signed Lambert et al, again when we got promoted to the PL and signed J-Rod and Clyne and then when Koeman joined and we signed Pelle, Tadic and co. We did sign plenty of forgettable players in that time, but the sheer number of good signings carried us through for years. Since then, however, it's been a bit of a slide with the occasional individual bright signings like KWP or Ings being seen as good business rather than transfer windows as a whole.

Even Fergie made signings that didn't work out, but there was sufficient quality over the years that the Djemba-Djembas get forgotten about. And I only have to look at the transfer spend of Everton or Villa to know that however much they have splurged over the years, it's not really been working for them. A manager may be responsible for moulding a team out of individual players, but it is coherent recruitment away from the touchlines and press conferences that will really determine the fate of a football club and not very much else. Now it's easy to say this while we're bottom of the league, but I'm not sure we've been doing that recently.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

Think it actually hit Che who was offside 

Really? I find that hard to believe

[davefizzy14]

Sulemana has got quality and for me has been fine so far. He will only get better as his lightning pace and skill will destroy fullbacks. 

Edited 17 March, 2023 by davefizzy14

[Forester]

6 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

My personal rule of thumb is I reckon that for any team if 50% of the transfers work out, then it's a decent transfer window.

Definition of 'work out' is going to vary hugely according to individual interpretation but 'doing a job for us' would do for me. Extra points if it meant a sale for profit but it's not really the sole aim, is it. If it means we need to sign a Billy Sharp for 6 months to get promoted but he barely features in the league above, the ends justify the means. Same as Danny Fox to cover the 12 months before we decided Luke Shaw was ready. What it definitely doesn't mean is 'Moi is still here after 5 years and used by many different managers, so he has been good for us as we slide down the league'.

As long as there are enough decent signings over a sustained time period, that is what gets teams through tough times and fallow periods. Our problem as others have pointed out many times already is that the recent substantial investment has followed an extended period of existing on a relative shoestring. The fact that we've relied so long on defenders who get nowhere near the matchday XI at our competitors (Vest, Bertrand, Bednarek; Stephens the only exception) supports this.

As I said before, perceptions may vary but if we were to look back over the last 20 years, I reckon most of us would be unanimous on the successful windows where we beat the 50% rule comfortably. At a guess, maybe 3 times... when Liebherr took over and we signed Lambert et al, again when we got promoted to the PL and signed J-Rod and Clyne and then when Koeman joined and we signed Pelle, Tadic and co. We did sign plenty of forgettable players in that time, but the sheer number of good signings carried us through for years. Since then, however, it's been a bit of a slide with the occasional individual bright signings like KWP or Ings being seen as good business rather than transfer windows as a whole.

Even Fergie made signings that didn't work out, but there was sufficient quality over the years that the Djemba-Djembas get forgotten about. And I only have to look at the transfer spend of Everton or Villa to know that however much they have splurged over the years, it's not really been working for them. A manager may be responsible for moulding a team out of individual players, but it is coherent recruitment away from the touchlines and press conferences that will really determine the fate of a football club and not very much else. Now it's easy to say this while we're bottom of the league, but I'm not sure we've been doing that recently.

Good post.  I think in addition a couple of general points:

- January is an awful window to bring in five players, you tend to have limited targets that are realistic and there is no pre-season to develop and prepare.  We all know why this happened, namely gross mismanagement last summer

- it is really difficult bedding in players new to the Premier League.  It takes time for almost all new signings.  But if you rock up to a team that is bottom of the league and really under pressure it’s even harder

[Toussaint]

On 16/03/2023 at 07:53, Saint Fan CaM said:

That’s because the coaching is not good enough. There’s some sort of policy clearly insisting on the same slow build up play, re-cycling the ball between the midfield and CB’s, hardly ever threading in a through ball or putting one over the top for Sulemana to run onto. It’s been like this for years and at least three managers. Why?

It’s the result of that god- forsaken playbook.

[Saint86]

21 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

Fuckin hell it’s a Sadio Mane deja vu.

Early days ffs 

This. He's going to be a good player provided he doesn't get injured and saints don't ruin him. Some of the comments on here, it's literally like reading the mane threads all over again. 

Edited 17 March, 2023 by Saint86

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

This. He's going to be a good player provided he doesn't get injured and saints don't ruin him. Some of the comments on here, it's literally like reading the mane threads all over again. 

I also agree. He's already shown he has potential. There's an obsession with speed nowadays but most the speed merchants have zero ball control (with Lavia the ball is practically stuck to his feet). Sule's control is very average but he can get past people. His assists/shots need practice...keep on saying, can't the players take a football to the training ground??

[verlaine1979]

Doesn't seem to have the strength for this league at the moment. Schade, the 21 year old winger Brentford signed under similar circumstances in January (on loan, but with a record fee agreed for summer) is 6'1 and appears much better suited to the league. Several times he made trouble on our right wing because he was strong enough to hold off KWP while sprinting.

[Chez]

22 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

Fuckin hell it’s a Sadio Mane deja vu.

Early days ffs 

Are you predicting he will be another `Mane' for us?

He's certainly got the pace.

[saintscottofthenortham]

He looked excellent against Wolves, told us after the game he can do better, and has been the definition of horseshit since.

[Bob76]

I think people's expectations of a 20 year old that had moved club and country are a bit weird. It's not his fault that he's not quite the finished article that our situation needed.

He deffo needs some work but has all the raw material needed. I know we don't have the time for that this year but again that's not his fault but at least he is prepared to try going past players, would be happy if some of the passess to him were into space behind the defence instead of behind him.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Bob76 said:

I think people's expectations of a 20 year old that had moved club and country are a bit weird. It's not his fault that he's not quite the finished article that our situation needed.

He deffo needs some work but has all the raw material needed. I know we don't have the time for that this year but again that's not his fault but at least he is prepared to try going past players, would be happy if some of the passess to him were into space behind the defence instead of behind him.

 

No, not his fault, but is an inexperienced prospect what we really need in our situation?

[Bob76]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No, not his fault, but is an inexperienced prospect what we really need in our situation?

No that's what I said probably not what we needed, but getting that finished article is expensive and then not guaranteed to work.

Edited 17 March, 2023 by Bob76

[madge]

I seem to recall the majority wrote off Sadio Mane when he first arrived… lad needs time. He’s got some talent.