Saints 2-1 Plymouth - Match Thread

[Sussex_saint]

2 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

17 unbeaten, another home win and people are still moaning. I'm glad most of this forum don't go to games, as the atmosphere is completely different amongst people that go, to those that don't.

I wouldn’t be surprised if most on this forum had never been to a game to be honest with their attitudes 

[Saint NL]

Leicester ahead already, they aren't slowing down (maybe that'll happen when they lose a few players at the ACON).

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Saint NL

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I don't think Baz lets that goal in if we don't have the two goal cushion

It shouldn't matter how big a lead we had - you do not do that and risk the 3 points which were in the bag at the time. No excuses.

[coalman]

Fuck-a-doodle-doo. Did not need the last five minutes. A totally dominant 2-1 win.

That linesman saved us there. Though at least he was shit for both teams.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

78% posession.
27 shots of which 7 on target.
A ton of build up play that created a lot of nearly moments and in which we were completely dominant.

Argyll will look at a potential offside. We also had a couple of contentious offsides in good areas.

We tried all sorts of attacks when in command of the first half. Our temp dropped a bit while we tried to come up with more. Perhaps a little loss of ideas when we didn;t go ahead. We were still creating, while Argyll looked to exploit us pushing forward, by getting in a few counters. We risked a little more than usual in a couple of those, reminding me of some earleir performances where we conceded. But we're nowhere near as panicked looking these days when it happens. Bednarek and THB are solid for us too, as well as others knowing where to get back to and when.

We were playing with a lot of experience rested on the bench. I thought that went well. Alcaraz and Edozie linked up well, had lots of energy and their decision making is only going in one direction, while they get minutes. Alcaraz was well wortth his goal.

Adams did a lot of good work. The missed chances stand out, as does Baz's clearance later on. But he took his goal well. He needs a few chances and does better with certain types than others. So, it's up to the rest of the team to create enough for him, when he's on. We've been doing that in recent games.It helps AA put his work rate in elsewhere, rahter than us depending on him.

The Subs all did well. With Smallbone's departure though, we lost a bit of that tempo and control in the middle. At 2 up, and so dominant, it's a reasonable enough decision with Charles, Stu and Aribo on the park. We just missed that certain skillset, while also not having AA to cover the ground.

Baz should have thumped that one clear. But it was a decision made while he was trying to figure out if he could pass it around a defender who had seemed to pick up a knock. As Holdgate found out earlier this season, it looks excruciating being caught figuring things out in Martin's system. Martin will have been pleased with his goalkeeper apart from that. He did everything else he was asked to do, getting a few attacks started crisply in a game where he hadn;t much to do.

In a game where we kept them to one effort on target, we'd be expecting to be well ahead at the other end. We had chances to put it to bed after they scored too. They had some possession late on. But I never felt we were hanging on.

Another win across a long run of games. Another dominant perfomance, with lots of attacking play and shots. We're keeping as much pressure as we can on Ipswich.
 

[VectisSaint]

14 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

3 points but no thanks to Baz for screwing the clean sheet and a better goal difference.

Terrible moments near the end from KWP and Charles (again) made that very nervous ending even without the Baz screw up. Charles is a terrific player but keeps making some really bad decisions. 

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I don't think Baz lets that goal in if we don't have the two goal cushion

Indeed. And also if Jack Stephens hadn't played a lofted / needless back pass in the first place...

Edited 29 December, 2023 by trousers

[saintant]

1 minute ago, coalman said:

Fuck-a-doodle-doo. Did not need the last five minutes. A totally dominant 2-1 win.

That linesman saved us there. Though at least he was shit for both teams.

Yeah and to be fair he cost us chances in the first half by wrongly flagging. Those in charge need to look at his performance tonight because he was awful.

[Chez]

Slightly surprised we haven't conceded more `over passing in our own box fuck up' type goals. It's something that is bound to happen, but opponents don't press like they do in the Prem, so we are hardly ever under great pressure. Under zero pressure and we finally fuck up. Great time for it to happen though, as it doesn't hurt us. 

Overall, I thought we were very good. We created some great situations. The movement was excellent.  Some of the dribbling from KWP was outstanding.  

[The Kraken]

5 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

17 unbeaten, another home win and people are still moaning. I'm glad most of this forum don't go to games, as the atmosphere is completely different amongst people that go, to those that don't.

 

3 minutes ago, Sussex_saint said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if most on this forum had never been to a game to be honest with their attitudes 

Winners’ badges for these two please trousers. These two go to games. Like actually, go. To games.

Forumming from the car back to Sussex, no doubt #committment

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Slightly surprised we haven't conceded more `over passing in our own box fuck up' type goals. It's something that is bound to happen, but opponents don't press like they do in the Prem, so we are hardly ever under great pressure. Under zero pressure and we finally fuck up. Great time for it to happen though, as it doesn't hurt us. 

Overall, I thought we were very good. We created some great situations. The movement was excellent.  Some of the dribbling from KWP was outstanding.  

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm filing it under "it was gonna happen sometime, let it happen in a match like this".

[badgerx16]

People commenting on their 'goal' ruled out for offside, but we probably had 3 attacks in the first half that the same lino incorrectly flagged and might have created something more.

If offside 'goals' counted we might have another League Cup in the trophy cabinet.

[Nemi]

23 minutes ago, DT said:

Bazunu reacquaints himself with brain farts. Utterly moronic. Ps their keeper is brilliant

Gonna happen sometimes when playing this style of football. Meanwhile, their keeper was completely static for our second goal - awful keeping and puts us out of sight.

[Saint Gifford]

Looking forward to watching the highlights on the tele. 

Can’t make my mind up if that was hard work or a walk in the park. 
 

 

[sfc4prem]

Just now, Saint Gifford said:

Looking forward to watching the highlights on the tele. 

Can’t make my mind up if that was hard work or a walk in the park. 
 

 

The latter. Hth.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Watch Adams' movement for the goal, terrific stuff 

https://x.com/SaintsExtra/status/1740816452402209157?s=20

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Gloucester Saint]

Another win, mixed bag of a display. Great first 20, did everything but score, hit the post, Che scuffs one that should go in, AA nearly a worldie. Could’ve been 3-0 early on.

Bit one dimensional after that and got caught on the counter 3 on 3 a couple of times, but they didn’t always have the final ball to hurt us.

Lino is the worst I’ve ever seen, really was, Saying Sunday League is offensive to that level. How you can reach that level and not know offside rules/see them with lines on the pitch is staggering. And dinosaurs still moan about VAR at PL level…it ain’t the technology…mind boggling. Edozie and Che both given off in the first half when a yard on and a portent to a shocking disallowed goal. Charly’s stunner 40 seconds later must have rubbed one of those big tubs of Saxa salt in the wound. In total control after that, get the second and close several times to the third. Finishing not quite at the levels of Blackburn or Swansea games but comfortable.

Horrible and needless blooper from Baz, who had little else to do all night. Shea then equally stupidly nearly gifted them an equaliser farting around with no idea what was around him. Plymouth had more offensive threat than the last two teams with forwards who press with pace and can score. Something to eliminate in training. 

Positives - Charly excellent, changes of pace and the most threatening offensive player. Close behind Edozie, also brilliant defensive intervention at the end of the first half. Mara - good, energetic cameo. KWP - classy although should have been booked. THB and JB good. 

Challenges - Smallbone mixed, Charles not one of his better nights, Manning absolutely terrible again and at fault for the goal that should’ve been. Stupid booking too caught out of position wrong side of the ball. Bree/new signing needed there. 

Argyle will be fine, hard run of away games they’ve had and with a new manager bounce they’ll be 12-16th no issues. Keeper was hit and miss, couple of great saves but kicking terrible and glue foot for Che’s goal.

Overall deserved the win, finishing more wayward than last two home games, and some things to work on in training. Hopefully QPR can nick something off Ipswich.

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Gloucester Saint

[david in sweden]

3 points.... but a bit of a damp squib after the trouncing of Swansea.

Comparative stats. are surprising   .v Swansea  60% possession,    11 shots   5 goals. 

                                                          v. Plymouth  78% possession      26 shots  2 goals.   

once again a commanding first half but no goals, and we had enough chances.

Plymouth's " disallowed goal " was ONSIDE in replay ...(what was that about VAR / no VAR.)

OK ...3rd game in 6 days, but despite stats. we really needed to convert more, but today we had the luck.

[The Kraken]

Big shout to THB and Janny B, absolutely superb for most of the game. KWP as good as you’d expect, a solid 3 of the back four.

Alcaraz’s goal was a great finish but not sure overall he was my MOTM like they gave on the telly. He did ok but not quite there in the first half, but his strike made all the difference so fair play.

The only lowlights were Baz having a brain fart and I’m still not a big fan of Smallwilly. Downes and Slowmo Joe a better midfield option imo, though I do like Shea Charles and hope he gets more chance to develop.

[The Kraken]

4 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

Looking forward to watching the highlights on the tele. 

Can’t make my mind up if that was hard work or a walk in the park. 
 

 

Both

[VectisSaint]

19 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Tbh…it should be 2-2. 
they had goal wrongly disallowed. 
bit of a huff and puff effort tonight against a pretty poor side with an appalling away record. 
we will need to be better than that display in upcoming fixtures. 

Rubbish, it should have been about 6-2. Their disallowed goal was offside (just), we had an offside that was wrongly called (not the Adams one). We had so many chances, no one can honestly say it should have been a draw. That said, Manning, Charles and KWP need to look at themselves for some of the stupid mistakes they made completely unnecessarily. Onwards and upwards. Pressure now on Leeds to keep up.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, VectisSaint said:

Rubbish, it should have been about 6-2. Their disallowed goal was offside (just), we had an offside that was wrongly called (not the Adams one). We had so many chances, no one can honestly say it should have been a draw. That said, Manning, Charles and KWP need to look at themselves for some of the stupid mistakes they made completely unnecessarily. Onwards and upwards. Pressure now on Leeds to keep up.

Why do fans get so biased? It was onside.....it should have stood. We got away with a howler from the lino

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm filing it under "it was gonna happen sometime, let it happen in a match like this".

Agree with that. I was saying the other week I was surprised it hasn't happened more often this season. At least it ultimately doesn't matter. 

[Saint86]

21 minutes ago, saintant said:

It shouldn't matter how big a lead we had - you do not do that and risk the 3 points which were in the bag at the time. No excuses.

There are excuses. He's a very young keeper learning his trade and he has to make these mistakes to learn... And yes, it's a bad error, but he's already shown he's cutting them out and getting better.

The whole performance was a bit weird - almost like they're getting too comfortable and believing the hype - We were very wasteful in front of goal and lacked a lot of killer instinct - the reality is we could and probably should have anywhere between 4 and 7 goals on a different day. Once the 2nd went the whole side went into 2nd gear and took their feet off the gas... Not just baz. Fraser's miss is as bad as that goal we conceded really, especially given relative experiences. I suspect Martin really wasn't very happy and let them know they need to be more professional and ruthless etc. In the dressing room. 

Anyway, saints have always been a side that develops young payers and tearing them down at every opportunity sn't part of that... A lot of fans forget this with baz. 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Saint86

[OttawaSaint]

5 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Their disallowed goal was offside (just).

Nope, was quite a bit onside, Janny Bs whole arse was playing him on!

Edited 29 December, 2023 by OttawaSaint

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Agree with that. I was saying the other week I was surprised it hasn't happened more often this season. At least it ultimately doesn't matter. 

Not wanting to sugar coat it too much as it was pretty awful, but the calculation is that playing out from the back gains us more goals than it concedes, even if it does look really stupid when it goes wrong

[saintant]

Just now, Saint86 said:

There are excuses. He's a very young keeper learning his trade and he has to make these mistakes to learn... And yes, it's a bad error, but he's already shown he's cutting them out and getting better. Saints have always been a side that develops young payers and tearing them down isn't part of that. 

No excuses for that even if a ten year old keeper did it. It's not acceptable and RM needs to have a quiet word.

[Vancouver Saint]

We should all be thankful to Che Adams for playing to his strength in holding off the defender to score what turned out to be the winner. Bazunu will hopefully learn from that to never lose concentration for a second - turned a completely comfortable, dominant victory into a tense, nail-biting finish. In the end no harm done.

Overall, I sat there watching, thinking we've change the personnel but they're playing the same way - brilliant. Smallbone not as good as Armstrong, and Aribo adds more than Shea Charles at this point IMHO, Manning seems to make some bad decisions...but otherwise we were really playing as a team. Alcaraz goal brilliant. Edozie excellent. Mara excellent when he cam on. Fraser should have made it three...though that was going to cost us too. Their goalkeeper stopped it from being five or six for us.

Oh yes, and we got lucky for their disallowed goal for once. A 2-goal shift in the space of a minute worked in our favour. 

Gotta keep this going.

[Saint86]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

No excuses for that even if a ten year old keeper did it. It's not acceptable and RM needs to have a quiet word.

Obviously they'll have a word, but they won't tear him down for it 🙄. It's how they want him to play and it's all about judgement and experience. 

"it's not acceptable" - so what, do some of you want to drop him and give him an absolute bollocking? even ederson has made howlers in recent seasons and he's one of the world's top goalkeepers and the finished product. 

The lad is going to make mistakes, be glad it was today. 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Saint86

[Greedyfly]

20 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Terrible moments near the end from KWP and Charles (again) made that very nervous ending even without the Baz screw up. Charles is a terrific player but keeps making some really bad decisions. 

In fairness to KWP, I think he was blowing out of his arse by that point having basically run the creativity from that wing. Was sloppy but I'll let the player of the season (for me) off on that one. Charles looked good but he needs the occasional kick up the arse on the concentration front

[Challenger]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed. And also if Jack Stephens hadn't played a lofted / needless back pass in the first place...

Exactly, if there wasn't so many needless backpasses, there would be less keeper fuck ups.

[Osvaldorama]

Absolutely buzzing. 
 

Got a bit complacent at the end but we look like a fantastic team now. 
 

credit to Martin & all the players. Excellent excellent stuff 

[saintant]

Just now, Saint86 said:

Obviously they'll have a word, but they won't tear him down for it 🙄. It's how they want him to play and it's all about judgement and experience. 

Agree, no need to rip into him which is why I suggested RM needs to have a quiet word.

[kitch]

Being lucky to win games when even you've made errors or not played well is the mark of a team that wins things. I'll take that all day long.

Thought Mara's cameo was hugely encouraging. He's looked good each time he's come on recently. Some lovely skill tonight, unlucky not to score. Still convinced there's a big player there. Lovely finish from Alcaraz too, and I've really been impressed with Bednarek recently. Hasn't put a foot wrong for ages now.

Baz? Bah, it happens. He's young, as long as he learns from it, no problem.

 

Onwards.

[Saint86]

1 minute ago, kitch said:

Being lucky to win games when even you've made errors or not played well is the mark of a team that wins things. I'll take that all day long.

Thought Mara's cameo was hugely encouraging. He's looked good each time he's come on recently. Some lovely skill tonight, unlucky not to score. Still convinced there's a big player there. Lovely finish from Alcaraz too, and I've really been impressed with Bednarek recently. Hasn't put a foot wrong for ages now.

Baz? Bah, it happens. He's young, as long as he learns from it, no problem.

 

Onwards.

Agree. Although we showed a lot of complacency today and I hope Martin calls them out on it and we see it being stamped out. Ruthless saints is what I want to see. People moaning about baz, but our attacker's missed about 3-4 guilt edged chances as well. Plymouth should have been dead, buried, and forgotten about long before baz's error. 

[woodsaint1]

Why are people getting worked up that their goal should have stood....it didnt and theres no VAR (which is great for the championship). There were a few offside decisions which didnt go our way. Such is football.

Even if it had've counted, we probably still would have found a way to win such is our confidence at the moment

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Not wanting to sugar coat it too much as it was pretty awful, but the calculation is that playing out from the back gains us more goals than it concedes, even if it does look really stupid when it goes wrong

Yep it was said many times when the season started that it would happen so not a surprise. If we do go up though I would really want us to get another keeper with Bazunu as backup. Expect we wouldn't though. 

[kitch]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Agree. Although we showed a lot of complacency today and I hope Martin calls them out on it and we see it being stamped out. Ruthless saints is what I want to see. People moaning about baz, but our attacker's missed about 3-4 guilt edged chances as well. Plymouth should have been dead, buried, and forgotten about long before baz's error. 

Deffo some complacency there. Probably hard to stay focused when you're so clearly dominating. I suggest they stop and look at the scoreboard every now and then, because like you say, they should have been out of sight if Adams could finish. (He did well with his goal, no doubts on that one).

Smallbone & Charles, however...don't want to see them in midfield at the same time again for a while. No creativity at all. Badly needed Aribo or Stuey to start with one or the other, but appreciate Downes was out so not an ideal lineup anyway.

More like Swansea, less like tonight, but keep it going Saints. 

[CB Fry]

We were absolutely sensational first half, battered them 0-0. Brilliant, but for a goal or two.

Thankfully the last five minutes brain fart was irrelevant in the end, but probably a useful lesson to keep feet on the ground.

 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by CB Fry

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Not wanting to sugar coat it too much as it was pretty awful, but the calculation is that playing out from the back gains us more goals than it concedes, even if it does look really stupid when it goes wrong

two minutes after the goal in the same situation Baz smacked it first time long - the co-commentator said "that's what he should have done before" and although obvious he was right, especially as going long immediately created a great attacking opportunity for us - the ball was not cleared by their CB and we were three on three.

 

 

[gammon cheeks]

Great football at times ...should have been 3 or 4  to be honest .

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

two minutes after the goal in the same situation Baz smacked it first time long - the co-commentator said "that's what he should have done before" and although obvious he was right, especially as going long immediately created a great attacking opportunity for us - the ball was not cleared by their CB and we were three on three.

 

 

Teams expecting us to play a certain way all game, can get caught out with a more direct approach.
If our passing game isn;t getting results and/or they are pushing up, even a little, it's a useful option, and we've got goals from such directness already this season.
Baz's weight and distribution are good enough to deliver accurate, useful attacks (he had one earlier tonight that 2 of our players got in each other's way over. He's doen it in the past too.)
It reminds Baz that hoofing is an option 🙂
 

[The Kraken]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

We were absolutely sensational first half, battered them 0-0. Brilliant, but for a goal or two.

Thankfully the last five minutes brain fart was irrelevant in the end, but probably a useful lesson to keep feet on the ground.

 

I’d have preferred he lifted his foot into the air and smashed the ball into row Z personally.

But agreed overall, a very dominant performance that was made far closer that it needed to be.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

14 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Agree. Although we showed a lot of complacency today and I hope Martin calls them out on it and we see it being stamped out. Ruthless saints is what I want to see. People moaning about baz, but our attacker's missed about 3-4 guilt edged chances as well. Plymouth should have been dead, buried, and forgotten about long before baz's error. 

Complancey came from the bench in my opinion. Absolutely no need to bring Stephens on. Effected the whole balance of the team.

[Chez]

21 minutes ago, kitch said:

Thought Mara's cameo was hugely encouraging. He's looked good each time he's come on recently. Some lovely skill tonight, unlucky not to score. Still convinced there's a big player there.

The thing that caught my eye was when he lost the ball he chased back, hard, and made a good tackle to get the ball back. That is something I would expect of professionals, but that isnt what you always get. Proper desire and graft from a sub. That is a sign hr want to be here, wants to play, wants to win, wants to get in this side.

[Wade Garrett]

A win’s a win.  Not easy playing against an 8 man defence.

 I think their goal was a bit of a kick up the arse for us.  Thankfully, it didn’t cost us points.  It might stop a bit of complacency though.

 

[sfc4prem]

7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Complancey came from the bench in my opinion. Absolutely no need to bring Stephens on. Effected the whole balance of the team.

Agreed.

[JustinR]

Any news on downes?

[Saint_clark]

55 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

17 unbeaten, another home win and people are still moaning. I'm glad most of this forum don't go to games, as the atmosphere is completely different amongst people that go, to those that don't.

Everyone here is happy too, unless you're telling me those at the stadium didn't think it was a monumental cock up by Bazunu for their goal? 

[SaintBobby]

I’m treating the Bazunu screw up like the Alcaraz penalty…if you’re going to fuck up, fuck up when it doesn’t matter….