The very right reverend Posted May 18 Posted May 18 3 hours ago, 2Morrow said: Top three in the Championship had the most money, that's why they did well. The only easily identifiable metric to estimate success is paying the most wages - the rest is circumstance. This, it's not rocket science, you pay the most you invariably win, it is as simple as that unless you're lucky or have skill, we have neither and that is proven so take the safe bet, spend the money. 1
trousers Posted May 18 Posted May 18 2 minutes ago, Forester said: I remember the white handkerchief protest at newly appointed “Mauricio Who?” when we sacked Adkins… If I remember correctly, that was more to do with the way the outgoing manager was treated rather than a critique of the incoming manager (?) 7
Lighthouse Posted May 18 Posted May 18 1 hour ago, trousers said: The word "almost" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, given both those teams have got double our points total (thereabouts).... It’s not doing any heaving lifting at all, we’ve all been comfortably relegated with multiple fixtures still to play. Nobody is going into a final day relegation nail biter on 35 point. Leicester are officially the best of the three and they went through three Saints managers and two Popes without a goal at home. For context, we went down on 25 points two years ago and many people were going through the nauseating, "it’s hopeless we’ll be lucky not to drop straight through to League 1, " drama queen routine. Now all three teams are that bad but only Saints will be talked about as struggling next year. 4 1
hypochondriac Posted May 18 Posted May 18 3 hours ago, 2Morrow said: Top three in the Championship had the most money, that's why they did well. The only easily identifiable metric to estimate success is paying the most wages - the rest is circumstance. How does that explain Luton then? Or Birmingham's relegation the season before?
hypochondriac Posted May 18 Posted May 18 3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: It’s not doing any heaving lifting at all, we’ve all been comfortably relegated with multiple fixtures still to play. Nobody is going into a final day relegation nail biter on 35 point. Leicester are officially the best of the three and they went through three Saints managers and two Popes without a goal at home. For context, we went down on 25 points two years ago and many people were going through the nauseating, "it’s hopeless we’ll be lucky not to drop straight through to League 1, " drama queen routine. Now all three teams are that bad but only Saints will be talked about as struggling next year. 100% agree. Given our financial advantage playoffs should be an absolute minimum and probably top 4. 3
Miltonaggro Posted May 18 Posted May 18 30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: I'd say Pardew was a decebt manager for league one prior to seeing what he'd do with us. Agree. Punching well above at that point. Gave the club a boost.
Willo of Whiteley Posted May 18 Posted May 18 We should be gunning to actually win the league, not just be in with a shout. 12
2Morrow Posted May 18 Posted May 18 22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: How does that explain Luton then? Or Birmingham's relegation the season before? They didn't have the most money this year? Maybe fluking a playoff campaign can be done, but there double relegation owes as much to the first miraculous promotion. Reversion to the mean. Birmingham spent £15m on a ST in league one and lo and behold they smashed the league. Wrexham have commercial revenue that is on par with top 4 championship. Zoom out enough and eventually money talks. There will always be outliers, we had a good few years giving the big spenders a bloody nose ourselves, but unless you can get a cash injection (City, Newcastle, Villa) the average ceiling over 10 years will be top 10 prem. Look at us, Leicester (champions league and a title win), Leeds, Burnley, Sheffield Utd. PSR compliance is an issue, as all the teams in the prem gave had a guaranteed 3 years at 105m losses whilst we have the championship year that guts the squad and caps our spend. It's not impossible, but will take a bit of luck, good investment and a set of tactics to maximise what we have. RUSSBALL could work for a mid table team, but our lack of quality showed up. Reduce the game to smaller margins, outwork the opposition and run further than them. Whether that's high press, low block or whatever. 1
Saint Gifford Posted May 18 Posted May 18 Genuine question, was there ever any outcome to the White, Jordan thing on Talksport when it was suggested that we are up for sale. I can’t see many proper managers queuing up to take the job with a potential new owner yet again.
Ed Rooney Posted May 18 Posted May 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said: You just don’t get it. That’s fine, but there’s no need to be a dick about it. 😂😂😂 no need for the language, nothing to get, you basically said no because his uncle managed Pompey, yet you probably bashed one out over Pompey born James Ward Prowse Edited May 18 by Ed Rooney 1
Harry_SFC Posted May 18 Posted May 18 1 minute ago, CSA96 said: Clearly not overly keen on us then. No doubt he is/was first choice but if he's going to mess around waiting for something better then it's good that we've seemingly moved on.
CSA96 Posted May 18 Posted May 18 (edited) Sounds a bit like Rohl is stalling to see if the Bundesliga musical chairs - Leverkusen, Leipzig, Wolfsburg jobs are open + whoever else might have a vacancy if they lose their coach to one of those three teams - gives him a chance to work back home, close to his family and in a top division If it's true that Johannes Spors wants to have plans in place by this time next week, which Alfie House says is the case, then perhaps we are getting restless and are now progressing with an alternative(s), hence the other names starting to pop up Edited May 18 by CSA96
Turkish Posted May 18 Posted May 18 15 minutes ago, CSA96 said: Sounds a bit like Rohl is stalling to see if the Bundesliga musical chairs - Leverkusen, Leipzig, Wolfsburg jobs are open + whoever else might have a vacancy if they lose their coach to one of those three teams - gives him a chance to work back home, close to his family and in a top division If it's true that Johannes Spors wants to have plans in place by this time next week, which Alfie House says is the case, then perhaps we are getting restless and are now progressing with an alternative(s), hence the other names starting to pop up Exactly what’s happened. Loose lips sinks ships but don’t think it’s giving too much info away to confirm the “current” status. I will caveat this by saying these situations are incredibly fluid and we are dealing with humans not computers so change of mind/stance can happen 2 2
Pilchards Posted May 18 Posted May 18 Only a guess as I’ve not spoken to my source for a week now. Reckon the latest names being linked to the Saint’s job is to force Rohl’s hand to make up his mind. He has certainly been offered the job a couple of weeks ago and it’s been agreed he can bring 2 coaching staff with him. 7
Lard Posted May 18 Posted May 18 23 minutes ago, Turkish said: Exactly what’s happened. Loose lips sinks ships but don’t think it’s giving too much info away to confirm the “current” status. I will caveat this by saying these situations are incredibly fluid and we are dealing with humans not computers so change of mind/stance can happen So basically you know nothing as per the norm. And your circle of twats (COT) are just guessing too. who knew. 🤦🏻 3
Pilchards Posted May 18 Posted May 18 We are also interested in a player from Wednesday whether Rohl comes or not.
Smirking_Saint Posted May 18 Posted May 18 2 hours ago, hypochondriac said: I'd say getting derby and especially Coventry into the playoffs was not easy. He has a better championship record than Martin for me prior to us getting him in. Derby literally got into the playoffs the year before abd narrowly missed out the year before that Coventry… ok, but again they’re a good side at this level, did well turning them around though But he’s not achieved anything, Id put him roughly on the same level as martin was really, purely because martin was highly regarded as a coach
Willo of Whiteley Posted May 18 Posted May 18 Sounds like Rohl is stalling. That should be a red flag in itself. You want someone that is keen and hungry. Not someone who is umming and arring, and is then going to be potentially downbeat if someone better comes in a month later. 1 1
Willo of Whiteley Posted May 18 Posted May 18 Anyone listen to Sean Dyche’s interview recently. Talks sense, not a favourable style of play but it would be good to see even an ounce of physicality from our players. 1 1
Smirking_Saint Posted May 18 Posted May 18 3 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said: Anyone listen to Sean Dyche’s interview recently. Talks sense, not a favourable style of play but it would be good to see even an ounce of physicality from our players. We don’t have the squad for a Dyche appointment even if we wanted him, which thankfully we don’t 2
Turkish Posted May 18 Posted May 18 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Lard said: So basically you know nothing as per the norm. And your circle of twats (COT) are just guessing too. who knew. 🤦🏻 Check the threads hun it’s all there the CoT never been wrong Edited May 18 by Turkish 1
Saint Fan CaM Posted May 18 Posted May 18 2 hours ago, Ed Rooney said: 😂😂😂 no need for the language, nothing to get, you basically said no because his uncle managed Pompey, yet you probably bashed one out over Pompey born James Ward Prowse Thanks for the unwanted insight into your perverse mind. 😂😂😂 1
hypochondriac Posted May 18 Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said: Derby literally got into the playoffs the year before abd narrowly missed out the year before that Coventry… ok, but again they’re a good side at this level, did well turning them around though But he’s not achieved anything, Id put him roughly on the same level as martin was really, purely because martin was highly regarded as a coach That's fine. Martin got us promoted so if Lampard did the same you could say he was a success.
manji Posted May 19 Posted May 19 2 hours ago, CSA96 said: Sounds a bit like Rohl is stalling to see if the Bundesliga musical chairs - Leverkusen, Leipzig, Wolfsburg jobs are open + whoever else might have a vacancy if they lose their coach to one of those three teams - gives him a chance to work back home, close to his family and in a top division If it's true that Johannes Spors wants to have plans in place by this time next week, which Alfie House says is the case, then perhaps we are getting restless and are now progressing with an alternative(s), hence the other names starting to pop up Spors has been here three months. Plans are in place already. 1
Fitzhugh Fella Posted May 19 Posted May 19 10 hours ago, Lighthouse said: It’s not doing any heaving lifting at all, we’ve all been comfortably relegated with multiple fixtures still to play. Nobody is going into a final day relegation nail biter on 35 point. Leicester are officially the best of the three and they went through three Saints managers and two Popes without a goal at home. For context, we went down on 25 points two years ago and many people were going through the nauseating, "it’s hopeless we’ll be lucky not to drop straight through to League 1, " drama queen routine. Now all three teams are that bad but only Saints will be talked about as struggling next year. I'm not saying we will do a Luton but I do think the fallout from the damage inflicted by this season's debacle is much more serious than it was two years ago. Also the mentality of those players that remain will take a fair bit of mending. Not being a drama queen at all - how about my £50 against your £50 that we will still be in the same division this time in 12 months?
waylander Posted May 19 Posted May 19 https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/will-still-next-southampton-manager-talks-b2753171.html
SW11_Saint Posted May 19 Posted May 19 14 hours ago, Lighthouse said: You can if you like, but I'd like to think most fans aren't that much of a drama queen. I can absolutely guarantee that nobody is saying the same about Ipswich and Leicester, who've both been almost as bad as use this season. In fact I'd wager most Saints fans would have them as odds on for the automatic promotion spots. Why is it being a ‘drama Queen’ to suggest we might not bounce back at the first time of asking? To be honest, I’d rather have two seasons in the Championship to complete the much needed ‘reset’ and go up better equipped than we did this year. As for Leicester and Ipswich being almost as bad as us - they are 13 and 10 points respectively above us. That’s a pretty significant improvement on our return, albeit with the same end result. 1
gio1saints Posted May 19 Posted May 19 14 hours ago, HarvSFC said: I don't get the animosity towards Still. They won’t say it but the unspoken reason for some of the posters here disliking him is he’s less than half their age and ginger. 5 1
E_H_Saints Posted May 19 Posted May 19 6 minutes ago, gio1saints said: They won’t say it but the unspoken reason for some of the posters here disliking him is he’s less than half their age and ginger. I don't understand why people are against him. He's proven in other leagues (although not the championship or premier league) new ideas need to start from somewhere (Crystal Palace just won the FA cup on a gamble manager). He has to be decent if Reims were willing to pay 22,000 each time he managed a match. People are stuck on the same names that have stories of being successful in the league but all those managers have also been relegated or been sacked not to mention who knows if they want to come to a crumbling team like us at the moment. I just think it would be nice to be the team that takes a gamble and potentially pays off. People would likely give him a bit more time. Whereas a manager who has been there and done that will not get the time needed and people will be very quick to turn. To be fair I'm surprised Leicester aren't linked. I don't think there is a right or wrong as we are shyte and it needs to get a lot right if we have any chance regardless of manger. Being able to trim the squad down and add quality without bloating the squad again is just as big of a job as hiring a manager. However, the inside has been a overhaul of changes so why not go with a wild card manager. As always IMO. 1
Fabrice29 Posted May 19 Posted May 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said: Why is it being a ‘drama Queen’ to suggest we might not bounce back at the first time of asking? To be honest, I’d rather have two seasons in the Championship to complete the much needed ‘reset’ and go up better equipped than we did this year. As for Leicester and Ipswich being almost as bad as us - they are 13 and 10 points respectively above us. That’s a pretty significant improvement on our return, albeit with the same end result. It’s not about predicting we won’t go up. That’s a reasonable prediction. Its comments like ‘I would rather we have two seasons in the Championship’ and ‘can afford a grace period’ etc. It’s all well and good you saying that now but for that to happen we’ll lose circa 15 plus games next season. (WBA the only side outside the play offs this year to lose less than 16 btw). Or we’ll lose in a big play off tie somewhere along the line. So when those things happen, when we go a month without winning or we lose a few games in a row, I do not expect to see you, FF or anyone else suggesting now that we need to rebuild or rest moaning that we conceded to Callum Paterson or bottled it in the play offs. Edited May 19 by Fabrice29 1 1
gio1saints Posted May 19 Posted May 19 If Rohl has not made up his mind by midweek it’s not as simple as oh- don’t worry, Will Still will take the job. One has to bear in mind the career trajectory of these guys. For both Rohl and Still Saints are about the right and realistic level, imo, but they may feel that, especially for Rohl, that (another) season in the Championship is a bit meh. As is managing a team that’s so utterly shit that just got relegated into it for Still. We could well be in third fourth or even just some rando choice territory- much like how player recruitment has been for too long. Im beginning to feel that this lack of decisiveness once a target has been identified is endemic and a key infrastructure weakness at SR- and for SFC. 1
ErwinK1961 Posted May 19 Posted May 19 Do wonder if the Will Still bits in the press at the weekend are to give one last hurry up to Rohl to accept or we move on. TBH if he wants to hold out for a better offer then got to ask whether his heart will be in it. 2
Teamsaint1 Posted May 19 Posted May 19 9 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: It’s not about predicting we won’t go up. That’s a reasonable prediction. Its comments like ‘I would rather we have two seasons in the Championship’ and ‘can afford a grace period’ etc. It’s all well and good you saying that now but for that to happen we’ll lose circa 15 plus games next season. (WBA the only side outside the play offs this year to lose less than 16 btw). Or we’ll lose in a big play off tie somewhere along the line. So when those things happen, when we go a month without winning or we lose a few games in a row, I do not expect to see you, FF or anyone else suggesting now that we need to rebuild or rest moaning that we conceded to Callum Paterson or bottled it in the play offs. The lesson of this season is surely that in order to get back to and thrive in the PL we have to win promotion with a much stronger structure and squad in place. We can't afford to gamble next season away, and in any case , who knows how the league will shape up next season. ( could be another 2X 100 point teams other than us) but if getting things restructured from the current shambles takes more than one year, then that is how it needs to be. Some decisions will need to be taken with a two year view, EG getting some younger players experience at top end Championship level
tdmickey3 Posted May 19 Posted May 19 (edited) 42 minutes ago, gio1saints said: They won’t say it but the unspoken reason for some of the posters here disliking him is he’s less than half their age and ginger. You post some utter horseshit Posts like yours make me think you are the one with the issues Edited May 19 by tdmickey3 2 1
DT Posted May 19 Posted May 19 20 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said: Do wonder if the Will Still bits in the press at the weekend are to give one last hurry up to Rohl to accept or we move on. TBH if he wants to hold out for a better offer then got to ask whether his heart will be in it. God I do hope so. Rohl has his pick of lots of clubs, Still - not so much. Tells you something. 1 1
Appy Posted May 19 Posted May 19 2 minutes ago, DT said: God I do hope so. Rohl has his pick of lots of clubs, Still - not so much. Tells you something. Tells you we won’t be getting Rohl?
sockeye Posted May 19 Posted May 19 (edited) Rather be decisive and appoint quickly even if it means telling Rohl “sorry but we can’t wait for your decision”. In regards to the potential Bundesliga jobs, could be weeks before those positions are shortlisted. SR have a history of dawdling and missing out on an appointment long summer of recruitment ahead, need to start shaping the team to the manager soon Edited May 19 by sockeye 1
Fitzhugh Fella Posted May 19 Posted May 19 28 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: It’s not about predicting we won’t go up. That’s a reasonable prediction. Its comments like ‘I would rather we have two seasons in the Championship’ and ‘can afford a grace period’ etc. It’s all well and good you saying that now but for that to happen we’ll lose circa 15 plus games next season. (WBA the only side outside the play offs this year to lose less than 16 btw). Or we’ll lose in a big play off tie somewhere along the line. So when those things happen, when we go a month without winning or we lose a few games in a row, I do not expect to see you, FF or anyone else suggesting now that we need to rebuild or rest moaning that we conceded to Callum Paterson or bottled it in the play offs. You won't. Everyone knows we have to "regroup or reset". Some of us appreaciate that's not going to happen overnight. Tbh - I have learned one lesson from this season's shambles and that is there's no point going up to the PL until you are really ready. We certainly weren't a year ago and got found out from Day 1. Next time we need to do it with a much clearer vision, a settled Board who carry the support of the fanbase and back room staff who know their onions. Right now none of those criteria are in place - hence my attempts to add a bit of common sense to the debate. 4
Appy Posted May 19 Posted May 19 1 minute ago, sockeye said: Rather be decisive and appoint quickly even if it means telling Rohl “sorry but we can’t wait for your decision”. In regards to the potential Bundesliga jobs, could be weeks before those positions are shortlisted. SR have a history of dawdling and missing out on an appointment long summer of recruitment ahead, need to start shaping the team to the manager soon Completely agree. If Rohl is messing us about by trying to get himself a Bundesliga job, move on, if Still wants it now, get it done, don’t get to the stage where Leicester get rid of Ruud and swoop in and pinch our first choice. 1
saint michael Posted May 19 Posted May 19 11 hours ago, Pilchards said: We are also interested in a player from Wednesday whether Rohl comes or not. Hopefully not the keeper
hypochondriac Posted May 19 Posted May 19 2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said: Why is it being a ‘drama Queen’ to suggest we might not bounce back at the first time of asking? To be honest, I’d rather have two seasons in the Championship to complete the much needed ‘reset’ and go up better equipped than we did this year. As for Leicester and Ipswich being almost as bad as us - they are 13 and 10 points respectively above us. That’s a pretty significant improvement on our return, albeit with the same end result. I don't think we will go up but I have heard this a lot and can't stand it. Failing to win promotion more likely than not will mean that the following season will be more of a challenge. We will be forced to sell some more promising players, have less money and will be competing for promotion with more teams with parachute payments. Sure another season down might be a positive but I will never understand someone wanting it to happen. If we don't go up after two years then there's every chance that we stay down permanently. 10
hypochondriac Posted May 19 Posted May 19 50 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said: You post some utter horseshit Posts like yours make me think you are the one with the issues Whilst I don't disagree, if Still starts to do badly 100% he will get dogs abuse for being young and ginger.
skintsaint Posted May 19 Posted May 19 Either Still or Rohl I would be happy with, don't play boring possession football and identified by Spors as the type of manager we are after. Brighton put in Hurzeler as a young manager from the German 2nd division, and has not been a disaster so there is some hope that age is but a number when it comes to management! 1
Forester Posted May 19 Posted May 19 1 hour ago, DT said: God I do hope so. Rohl has his pick of lots of clubs, Still - not so much. Tells you something. How do you know? Can you post the short list you have access to for Leicester, Rangers, West Brom and Norwich, along with Bundesliga clubs? Or is this a guess?
Wade Garrett Posted May 19 Posted May 19 13 minutes ago, skintsaint said: Either Still or Rohl I would be happy with, don't play boring possession football and identified by Spors as the type of manager we are after. Brighton put in Hurzeler as a young manager from the German 2nd division, and has not been a disaster so there is some hope that age is but a number when it comes to management! Fair point regarding Hurzeler. However, he is in more minding the shop mode. Our next boss is going to have to tear the whole shop down and rebuild it. 1
wild-saint Posted May 19 Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said: You won't. Everyone knows we have to "regroup or reset". Some of us appreaciate that's not going to happen overnight. Tbh - I have learned one lesson from this season's shambles and that is there's no point going up to the PL until you are really ready. We certainly weren't a year ago and got found out from Day 1. Next time we need to do it with a much clearer vision, a settled Board who carry the support of the fanbase and back room staff who know their onions. Right now none of those criteria are in place - hence my attempts to add a bit of common sense to the debate. Why didn't Burnley or Sheffield United need to reset this season?
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