Will Still

[RedArmy]

Do we have to wait for FM26 to come out before he gets good? 

[Weston Super Saint]

Aren't we supposed to be winning at all costs now, or something?

[Saint_clark]

36 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Evidently, Will Still is a very poor communicator witnessed by his painful press conferences. Is there any reason to suppose that he is any better at communicating with his players especially the more stroppy and arrogant ones.

That could be part of his problem, players take little notice of him because he can't get clear messages across

Disagree completely, the footage I saw of him from his previous jobs where he was giving team talks and training in multiple languages simultaneously. I don't give a fuck about saying the right things in press conferences, Martin said a lot of good things when interviewed with us. 

[saintstowin]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Who was he talking to ? If he was consulting  Trollope that's one thing, conferring with Nivea another. 

Or was he just talking to himself in the Tech Area. ? That might mean deeper problems for both us and him.

I'm really not sure. It was to a fellow human though! But my overall concern is a slow reaction time to change things. Whether that's because he's new and lacking confidence in himself, or wants to seek counsel, I do not know.

[saints-til-i-die]

The more I reflect, the more concerned I am. We looked totally clueless yesterday as we have for most of the season. He bought wingers for crosses but we don’t have the forwards to get on the end of them. What on Earth is going on? I just can’t see how that will improve. Surely he won’t abandon wingers after insisting on needing them for ages. I am genuinely totally at a loss to understand what he’s trying to achieve.

[saints-til-i-die]

Strange that Danny Rohl never ended up anywhere. 

[The Wyvern]

My concern with Still and his poor start is that if we look through every manager we've had in say the last 20 years I think its safe to say we've known if they're going to be good or bad once we're 7 games in.  I can't think of any managers that have looked poor at the start and turned out well or vice versa.  What we got at the start, we got for the rest of the time with the club.  Not looking good for Still on that basis. 

[James]

1 hour ago, The Wyvern said:

My concern with Still and his poor start is that if we look through every manager we've had in say the last 20 years I think its safe to say we've known if they're going to be good or bad once we're 7 games in.  I can't think of any managers that have looked poor at the start and turned out well or vice versa.  What we got at the start, we got for the rest of the time with the club.  Not looking good for Still on that basis. 

Took Strachan quite a number of games to get his first win from memory and then we were patchy before an uptick. Not always the case that how we started with a manager was what we got longer term.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, The Wyvern said:

My concern with Still and his poor start is that if we look through every manager we've had in say the last 20 years I think its safe to say we've known if they're going to be good or bad once we're 7 games in.  I can't think of any managers that have looked poor at the start and turned out well or vice versa.  What we got at the start, we got for the rest of the time with the club.  Not looking good for Still on that basis. 

We've played one game with the final squad, and that was a derby game so is an outlier. Give it another 7 games and see where we're at.

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, James said:

Took Strachan quite a number of games to get his first win from memory and then we were patchy before an uptick. Not always the case that how we started with a manager was what we got longer term.

WGS and Lawrie slow starters. Pellegrino reasonable start and then became the worst Saints manager I’ve ever seen. Reed and Kruger must have on the lash most of that season to not sack him until March.

[CB Fry]

Pardew took a long time to get going and then finished his season on promotion form.

 

My worry is that, like Ralph in his last year, Still could fail in his first year because no one is scoring the goals.

[The Wyvern]

36 minutes ago, James said:

Took Strachan quite a number of games to get his first win from memory and then we were patchy before an uptick. Not always the case that how we started with a manager was what we got longer term.

I'm not suggesting its an exact science, or that I can remember the quality of performances from 25 years ago to be honest, but I am racking my brains to think of a manager that has shown so little first up and then turned it around.  I thought we were abysmal in the first half on Sunday, unacceptably so.  

25 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

We've played one game with the final squad, and that was a derby game so is an outlier. Give it another 7 games and see where we're at.

The "final squad"/"derby" is meaningless to me, every game and every manager works within some kind of constraint or other.  I don't expect us to win every game or even play well every game, I did expect much more from Still than we've seen to date though.  I want him to do well, I like the bloke, much more than Martin.  Got to see some significant improvement at Hull on Saturday. 

[vectraman]

My issue is he said he wants fast passing to get up field, but it’s so ponderous and slow.
Particularly from the back where tippy tippy wank football continues. Time to put his foot down and make it clear - quick forward looking passes or you’re out the team.

We still can’t shake off the LEGO head shit slow football, mainly because the central defence is unchanged. THB and Stephens ARE decent championship quality, but by fuck do they need a rocket up their arses to get the ball forward quicker. Downes ditto. 

We bought Downs as a pacey forward but he’s not even a starter - yet again we try to be clever and worry about ‘sell on value bollocks’ rather than buying the right player for the job. Keifer Moore, cheap, direct, a handful - job done. Not us. Let’s be clever. Bore off SR. It is about results now, not the future you melts.

We simply have to play two up front - Stewart and Archer play off each other, and go old school 4-4-2. Coz what we are doing with a midget up front is not and will never work in the championship,  please just sort it out. 

 

[saintant]

I think, with the players we have, Will Still could do worse than studying and copying the way Liverpool play. Not saying we'll do it anything like as well but we don't need to as we are in the Championship. The first big thing they do is play Salah a left footer on the right and Gekpo a right footer on the left so that they can cut in and get shots away on their preferred foot and lots of their goals come from this set up. These two also drive to the byline and cut dangerous balls back for onrushing team mates. So we could play Fellows on the left and Scienza or Robinson on the right as we need goals from these guys not floaty crosses to midget strikers. Archer to play up front and position himself and make runs in the area the width of the penalty box with Azaz operating just behind him also width of penalty area. Behind Azaz, Charles and Jander to play the two man pivot and get forward to support Azaz and attackers as much as possible. Probably controversial but the two centre backs I'd use would be THB and Quarshie. For Liverpool VVD often plays long diagonals to Salah or Gekpo when they hug the touchline and I think THB could do this as we've seen him do it in the past. I'd also make him captain and responsible for keeping all players doing what they are meant to. Quarshie is big, powerful and quick so good attributes to cover any balls over the top with Baz operating from a high starting point as a sweeper keeper - Quarshie is also a threat at corners and set pieces and has a decent long throw. A right footed full back on the right and left footed one on the left - probably Mads and Manning or Jelert. They'd be encouraged to get forward and provide crosses or hit the byline and cut the ball back. Archer and Azaz to play between the lines and pick up fizzed low balls on the half turn from the back and midfield. Charles and Jander to receive the ball on the half turn from centre backs or advancing full backs.  Still needs to find a formation and shape so probably easiest to copy one of the top Premier league sides - no need to reinvent the wheel but he must make us more fluid in transition with a solid shape and a team that creates and scores goals because currently we look toothless and bereft of ideas. 

Edited 17 hours ago by saintant

[Wade Garrett]

23 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Spot on. I've got no problem at all with using a big, strong centre forward as a focal point for headers, hold-up play and crosses, but it's pretty obvious you can't play those tactics with 5 foot 9 Cam Archer or 2 foot 1 Adam Armstrong, yet that appears to be what he's trying to do at the minute, which is really concerning because it's so screamingly obvious it's a complete waste of time. 

My worry though is that he thought he would be able to play like that with 6 foot 4 Damion Downs as the striker, but now he's had time to have a proper look at him, he's realised that he's nowhere near ready and is now trying to force fit that system to players completely unsuited to it. Though having said that, surely you'd start Stewart as the next one if that's how you want to play, as he does at least have height even if he looks like a strong breeze would knock him over. 

He's meant to be highly tactically adaptable and good at being pragmatic to get the best out of the attributes of the players available, so now we need to see that in action, starting at Hull. If Archer is starting, get the ball down and play through balls to him along the ground so he can run into space and play off the shoulder like he wants to. 

I think that was the plan, but the defence couldn't get the ball into midfield because they were being pressed, and the midfielders weren't showing for the ball.  From Still's post-match comments, this annoyed him immensely.  I think we may see a change in midfield next game.  There certainly has to be an improved performance.  Still has to get his message across to the squad.

Someone made the point earlier that the main crab football culprits all played under Martin.  If they can't adapt, and I'm talking about THB, Manning and Downes, then drop them.

[OldNick]

7 hours ago, vectraman said:

My issue is he said he wants fast passing to get up field, but it’s so ponderous and slow.
Particularly from the back where tippy tippy wank football continues. Time to put his foot down and make it clear - quick forward looking passes or you’re out the team.

We still can’t shake off the LEGO head shit slow football, mainly because the central defence is unchanged. THB and Stephens ARE decent championship quality, but by fuck do they need a rocket up their arses to get the ball forward quicker. Downes ditto. 

 

 

WS intimated something similar in his interview after the game, where he said something on the lines of getting the old ways out of the players system.

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I think that was the plan, but the defence couldn't get the ball into midfield because they were being pressed, and the midfielders weren't showing for the ball.  From Still's post-match comments, this annoyed him immensely.  I think we may see a change in midfield next game.  There certainly has to be an improved performance.  Still has to get his message across to the squad.

Someone made the point earlier that the main crab football culprits all played under Martin.  If they can't adapt, and I'm talking about THB, Manning and Downes, then drop them.

Yeah either Downes or Charles need to be more willing or able to carry the ball or make a forward pass, and Azaz in particular needs to be more willing to drop deeper and show for it more to give them an option. Hopefully Jander is more of a ball-carrier/ string puller from deep, and is shown to be good enough to replace one of Downes/Charles over the coming weeks - ideally Downes as he's been way off the pace for ages now. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I think that was the plan, but the defence couldn't get the ball into midfield because they were being pressed, and the midfielders weren't showing for the ball.  From Still's post-match comments, this annoyed him immensely.  I think we may see a change in midfield next game.  There certainly has to be an improved performance.  Still has to get his message across to the squad.

Someone made the point earlier that the main crab football culprits all played under Martin.  If they can't adapt, and I'm talking about THB, Manning and Downes, then drop them.

You left out Stephens. 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I think that was the plan, but the defence couldn't get the ball into midfield because they were being pressed, and the midfielders weren't showing for the ball.  From Still's post-match comments, this annoyed him immensely.  I think we may see a change in midfield next game.  There certainly has to be an improved performance.  Still has to get his message across to the squad.

Someone made the point earlier that the main crab football culprits all played under Martin.  If they can't adapt, and I'm talking about THB, Manning and Downes, then drop them.

It's basics and easy to put right although why professional footballers would need to be coached to show for the ball, make clever movements between the lines and find pockets of space is beyond me. Surely they all know how important this is in progressing up the field - it's fundamental stuff not something only elite players can do. Will Still needs to read the riot act to any players seen to be hiding rather than showing for the ball as it's either laziness or cowardice because they don't want to take any responsibility. It needs sorting because it was very evident on Sunday that we were well short on the pass and move aspect of the game.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, OldNick said:

WS intimated something similar in his interview after the game, where he said something on the lines of getting the old ways out of the players system.

FFS. More scar tissue. When will it end?

[DT]

5 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah either Downes or Charles need to be more willing or able to carry the ball or make a forward pass, and Azaz in particular needs to be more willing to drop deeper and show for it more to give them an option. Hopefully Jander is more of a ball-carrier/ string puller from deep, and is shown to be good enough to replace one of Downes/Charles over the coming weeks - ideally Downes as he's been way off the pace for ages now. 

I wouldn't mind Downes if he actually looked like he gave a shit, passed the ball forwards occasionally, played a game without getting a yellow card, didn't lose the ball in dangerous positions inviting counterattacks, and wasn't clearly pining for his 'fwend' Wussell. Otherwise he's ace. Wish he'd bog off.

[Maggie May]

7 hours ago, OldNick said:

WS intimated something similar in his interview after the game, where he said something on the lines of getting the old ways out of the players system.

He needs to bin the excuses. Straight out of the RM textbook. 

[Midfield_General]

31 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

He needs to bin the excuses. Straight out of the RM textbook. 

Yeah, Martin was 3 managers ago. For all his faults, there’s only so long you can blame the man. Time to move on. 

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah, Martin was 3 managers ago. For all his faults, there’s only so long you can blame the man. Time to move on. 

It was only 39 weeks ago to be fair... i.e. much less time than the incumbent government still blames the inheritance from the previous government....

[Miltonaggro]

20 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Pardew took a long time to get going and then finished his season on promotion form.

 

My worry is that, like Ralph in his last year, Still could fail in his first year because no one is scoring the goals.

Agree.  With the transfer business I was genuinely surprised we didn't loan in a proven keeper and centre forward. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

Agree.  With the transfer business I was genuinely surprised we didn't loan in a proven keeper and centre forward. 

Why would we do that when there are defenders and midfielders to sign that might one day turn a profit!