Tonda Eckert

[The Wyvern]

Just now, CB Fry said:

A "knee jerk reaction" to getting kicked out of the richest match in world football and being the lead sports news story in the Uk?

Behave yourself.

Angry unhappy man being unhappy and angry I see. 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Angry unhappy man being unhappy and angry I see. 

You seem you be awfully upset about "the way of the world these days" where cheats get caught and punished. 

Chin up sweetheart x x

[pimpin4rizeal]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

A "knee jerk reaction" to getting kicked out of the richest match in world football and being the lead sports news story in the Uk?

Behave yourself.

Well you could argue without tonda we wouldn’t have been in the play offs anyway ? Look at how will still had us performing.  yet moronic supporters want to cry about this and spin the lottery wheel again  . 
 

get over it and let’s go again next season but it would be hundred times better if we have the man that has took us 20 games unbeaten .

[egg]

19 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Completely agree, spot on. Unfortunately the way of the world these days he’ll be either sacked or banned. 
 

Disappointing knee-jerk reaction from so many of our fans though. 

There's nothing knee jerk about it. His position is untenable, and I'm surprised the club didn't act after their investigation and before the 1st panel. He's been brilliant for us, but he can't stay, and I'd imagine the FA will impose a ban anyway. 

 

[Guan 2.0]

As I posted in the expelled thread: 
 

Quote

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 

I have no doubt Saints will be under huge pressure from the media and Rival clubs to Sack Tonda. I believe this is in no small part due to the fact that we only have to finish 8th next season to reach the play-offs.

If you are involved in any championship club, ensuring that Southampton jettisons a very good manager, while simultaneously being put in a position of trying to hire anyone while radioactive to the world at large would be a number one priority. 

Given this, unless he is banned, I hope we keep Tonda.  
 

[Green]

Siege mentality needed next year, including us fans, right the wrongs on the football pitch, keep Tonda because he’s the best manager we’ve had since Ralph, no more glorious failure, focus on winning games. 

[Morse]

If Tonda still has the backing and respect of the dressing room we would be stupid to sack him. But that's a big 'if'. He has let them down big time. 

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Green said:

Siege mentality needed next year, including us fans, right the wrongs on the football pitch, keep Tonda because he’s the best manager we’ve had since Ralph, no more glorious failure, focus on winning games. 

How can you say he is the best manager we have had when he is the ring leader is systemic cheating?

Will Still could have been the best manager since Ralph had he cheating to the same degree....

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Well you could argue without tonda we wouldn’t have been in the play offs anyway ? Look at how will still had us performing.  yet moronic supporters want to cry about this and spin the lottery wheel again  . 
 

 

In fairness I do argue that here, that's exactly what I'm saying:

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

On every level none of this would have happened without him so it is difficult.

 

 

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How can you say he is the best manager we have had when he is the ring leader is systemic cheating?

Will Still could have been the best manager since Ralph had he cheating to the same degree....

Meh, it's such a nothing way of cheating. A manager telling players to try to get others sent off has more material advantage from cheating. Stop being such a pussy.

[pimpin4rizeal]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

On every level none of this would have happened without him so it is difficult.

Unfortunately it boils down to the catastrophic decision to send someone to watch a team ahead of a knockout tournament. But that comes from the culture that was created that seemed to make spying a normal / needed way of prepping for matches. All on Tonda. 

What a way to wreck a reputation - his and ours.

The most disappointing thing for me is that the for the first time in a long time the football side of things has been really clicking , even when we made 5-6 changes for sone  games there was hardly any  difference in performance and results, tonda was getting the best out of everyone and sports too was doing sone excellant work in the market .

What’s happened has happened now But there’s no sensible reason to destroy all this good work and what we have at the club at the moment, if we stick with Tonda and spors we will be a big favourite to get promoted next season and like guan says 8th gets playoffs .. let’s not give the media abd the people who want blood a scapegoat and completely shoot ourselves im the foot now . I honestly couldn’t give a fuck what other teams fans think of us either we have had our punishment now , let’s not punish ourselves even more by sacking tonda 

[Willo of Whiteley]

49 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Completely agree, spot on. Unfortunately the way of the world these days he’ll be either sacked or banned. 
 

Disappointing knee-jerk reaction from so many of our fans though. 

Could not disagree more.

Knee-jerk reaction?

Reactionary reaction, yes. But completely and utterly justified.

If your business has been brought into disrepute you put distance between you and the problem, well this is a huge f****** problem.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Meh, it's such a nothing way of cheating. A manager telling players to try to get others sent off has more material advantage from cheating. Stop being such a pussy.

Either way, he wont be our manager for much longer, that is obvious 

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Either way, he wont be our manager for much longer, that is obvious 

Probably not, but if the players and the club can get over it, then I personally wouldn't care.

[Sarnia Cherie]

4 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

The most disappointing thing for me is that the for the first time in a long time the football side of things has been really clicking , even when we made 5-6 changes for sone  games there was hardly any  difference in performance and results, tonda was getting the best out of everyone and sports too was doing sone excellant work in the market .

What’s happened has happened now But there’s no sensible reason to destroy all this good work and what we have at the club at the moment, if we stick with Tonda and spors we will be a big favourite to get promoted next season and like guan says 8th gets playoffs .. let’s not give the media abd the people who want blood a scapegoat and completely shoot ourselves im the foot now . I honestly couldn’t give a fuck what other teams fans think of us either we have had our punishment now , let’s not punish ourselves even more by sacking tonda 

I think the FA will get involved now the EFL inquiry and appeal are over. Tonda's future may not be entirely in our hands. 

[LegalEagle]

Surely the FA are going to ban him anyway so he will have to go and this is a non-argument. The last thing we need is a summer of dispute with the FA and the uncertainty that goes with that. Anyone who is going to face an FA ban should be got rid of right now. We then move on quickly.

[LVSaint]

The club have to wash as much of spygate out of st Mary's as possible. As good as he's been, Tonda can't continue to command the respect of the players (that stay) anymore. Maybe the players can decide with any top brass (who weren't involved) if it'll work out next season. I don't know. He'll probably be banned anyway, taking this out of their hands.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Surely the FA are going to ban him anyway so he will have to go and this is a non-argument. The last thing we need is a summer of dispute with the FA and the uncertainty that goes with that. Anyone who is going to face an FA ban should be got rid of right now. We then move on quickly.

Given they thrown the book at us I expect they will at him as well. The Canada coach got a 12 month ban so expect he’ll get similar 

[Hawkswood]

7 hours ago, The Wyvern said:

If we'd just got a fine from the efl and were playing at Wembley in a couple of days time would you still be calling for him to be sacked? 

I think this is an interesting point. The fallout would obviously be a much more dampened affair and there would be nowhere near as much blowback. But that hasnt happened. He needs to go along with anyone else involved, no questions asked. The reputational damage is immense.

[Sheaf Saint]

Honestly, some of the mental gymnastics going on here 🤦

There is no reasonable scenario where Tonda is still our manager next season. None. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Whatever talent he might have, he has orchestrated a chain of events that has led to us suffering what is possibly the biggest ever humiliation in English football. And if the reports that came out yesterday about him bullying young interns to break the rules are true, that just makes it ten times worse.

He CANNOT stay. It's that simple.

[Dan Johnson]

Until we get the facts, we have to reserve judgement.

Although there are whisperings and rumors that he's been involved, we still don't have definitive proof, until we get that we cant be reactive.

The facts will determine the outcome, if he is involved he will be sacked or made to leave, that is inevitable as his position will be utterly untenable, regardless of feelings within the football club. 

I'd be gutted for the young man if so, he's obviously extremely talented and he's the first manager in a long time that has the universal backing of all the fans, which has gone a long long way to our on pitch recovery and performance.

 

[Pamplemousse]

From what we've heard, he's to blame. He's the instigator, the trouble maker, the fire starter, he might be Spors' prodigy but this is all self-inflicted and he's toast.

Edited 3 hours ago by Pamplemousse

[Tom & Gerry]

Tonda is a brilliant driven young coach, meticulous, focused totally on winning, and tries to give his players every detail and advantage. So driven that he lost sight of what was right or wrong. He is  inexperienced as a manager and someone at the club should have tapped him on the shoulder and told him it wasn't right. He will have to go away and hopefully he will learn from this and in time I'd love to have him back.

[Hawkswood]

2 minutes ago, Dan Johnson said:

Until we get the facts, we have to reserve judgement.

Although there are whisperings and rumors that he's been involved, we still don't have definitive proof, until we get that we cant be reactive.

The facts will determine the outcome, if he is involved he will be sacked or made to leave, that is inevitable as his position will be utterly untenable, regardless of feelings within the football club. 

I'd be gutted for the young man if so, he's obviously extremely talented and he's the first manager in a long time that has the universal backing of all the fans, which has gone a long long way to our on pitch recovery and performance.

 

This is fair.

[Morse]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Given they thrown the book at us I expect they will at him as well. The Canada coach got a 12 month ban so expect he’ll get similar 

Could work the other way. Most neutrals think our punishment was harsh, and in mitigation Tonda did put his hands up, so the FA make decide we've suffered enough. 12 month suspended penalty. 

(But who knows, I'm passed trying to second guess these kangaroo courts)

[Sussex_saint]

Looking at previous interviews with THB and Flynn Downes, both highlight the way he sets up the team, saying how they almost know how the opposition will play before they get on the pitch. “We know exactly what to do” etc.  On its own, a bloke with an iPhone watching training for a bit wouldn’t be too bad. The fact that this has obviously been widespread is completely different (and no way was it just those 3 games - conveniently we didn’t win any of them anyway!!), so it puts our amazing run into question. The annoying thing is, probably most of our recent form hasn’t been to do with the spying, however it tarnishes it. Add in the Eastleigh disguise, coaching staff spreading memes as early as December, allegations of “bullying “ all mean Tonda has to go imo - along with spors too. Clean slate needed - our club is the laughing stock of the county right now.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

if we ended up just getting a fine and the sanction didn’t go against us nobody would be saying a bad word against him .. 

Given everything that has come out, that was never going to happen. It's because of his actions that we got the sanction we did.

Surely you understand that?

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Honestly, some of the mental gymnastics going on here 🤦

There is no reasonable scenario where Tonda is still our manager next season. None. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Whatever talent he might have, he has orchestrated a chain of events that has led to us suffering what is possibly the biggest ever humiliation in English football. And if the reports that came out yesterday about him bullying young interns to break the rules are true, that just makes it ten times worse.

He CANNOT stay. It's that simple.

Alas, I think this is where we are, however....

Having said categorically yesterday that I think Tonda's position is untenable, I woke up this morning wondering if there was ANY scenario upon which Tonda could stay...

I then read Guan's post and thought: "hmm, ok, maybe there is such a scenario where he doesn't get the boot"....

I do get the train of thought that says: "who better to get us out of this mess than the man who has most to prove and rectify?"....

and then I start thinking: "what IF (big if) the FA don't ban him? Wouldn't that indicate that he didn't break the rules willfully and that he therefore deserves a chance to put things right?"

All that said, my gut feeling is that he still has to go.... And I suspect the FA will ban him anyway, so this is probably a moot discussion ... But...  there is also a small part of me that gets the argument to stick with him... (As you would expect from me, being fence-sitter-in-chief!)

So, is there any logic or merit in the club waiting for the FA's verdict or should they preempt that and get rid 'now', even if they think there a chance the FA might find him "not guilty" (of willfully breaking the rules)...?

 

[Hawkswood]

14 minutes ago, Sussex_saint said:

Looking at previous interviews with THB and Flynn Downes, both highlight the way he sets up the team, saying how they almost know how the opposition will play before they get on the pitch. “We know exactly what to do” etc.  On its own, a bloke with an iPhone watching training for a bit wouldn’t be too bad. The fact that this has obviously been widespread is completely different (and no way was it just those 3 games - conveniently we didn’t win any of them anyway!!), so it puts our amazing run into question. The annoying thing is, probably most of our recent form hasn’t been to do with the spying, however it tarnishes it. Add in the Eastleigh disguise, coaching staff spreading memes as early as December, allegations of “bullying “ all mean Tonda has to go imo - along with spors too. Clean slate needed - our club is the laughing stock of the county right now.

I live in London and am surrounded by fans of tonnes of different clubs and that includes my mates..... I know it feels more immediate to us but honestly, most people dont give a shit. Much like when bielsa did it, I didn't really care then. What most people have said to me is, why would they risk such massive reputation damage for such limited gains.

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Alas, I think this is where we are, however....

Having said categorically yesterday that I think Tonda's position is untenable, I woke up this morning wondering if there was ANY scenario upon which Tonda could stay...

I then read Guan's post and thought: "hmm, ok, maybe there is such a scenario where he doesn't get the boot"....

I do get the train of thought that says: "who better to get us out of this mess than the man who has most to prove and rectify?"....

and then I start thinking: "what IF (big if) the FA don't ban him? Wouldn't that indicate that he didn't break the rules willfully and that he therefore deserves a chance to put things right?"

All that said, my gut feeling is that he still has to go.... And I suspect the FA will ban him anyway, so this is probably a moot discussion ... But...  there is also a small part of me that gets the argument to stick with him... (As you would expect from me, being fence-sitter-in-chief!)

So, is there any logic or merit in the club waiting for the FA's verdict or should they preempt that and get rid 'now', even if they think there a chance the FA might find him "not guilty" (of willfully breaking the rules)...?

 

The biggest problem is who will pick the replacements of those sacked - the ones that chose Jones, Still etc

[Pamplemousse]

Even if the current players respect him, who from the outside would want to come in and play for him? Reluctantly maybe if we offer enough cash but it just seems like an extraordinary risk to keep him. 

And the media would want blood, he'd be under enormous pressure to succeed.

I can't see any scenario where he stays

[James G]

Given the magnitude of the ban, the FA will ban Tonda for at least a year and whoever else was involved 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, James G said:

Given the magnitude of the ban, the FA will ban Tonda for at least a year and whoever else was involved 

Hopefully, but it shouldn't matter to us as he has to go along with anyone complicit.

[LegalEagle]

Our new manager needs to unite the fan base. Some random unknown is not the answer. I’m not a fan of Scott Parker in terms of personality but his record at getting teams out of the championship at the first time of asking is extraordinary.

[sfc4prem]

Did Bielsa get banned? Sacked?

Similar offence, similar ethics involved. A new arbitrary rule from the EFL changes little in my mind.

The whole thing is embarrassing, silly and tinpot. Heads should roll.

However, in a dream land, if we could keep Tonda and players still respect him (i wonder if they buy into the demonisation the media and some fans have lapped up and regurgitated?), why not?

We've already been dragged through the mud. Why not stay dirty for a bit longer?

[UpweySaint]

26 minutes ago, Dan Johnson said:

Until we get the facts, we have to reserve judgement.

Although there are whisperings and rumors that he's been involved, we still don't have definitive proof, until we get that we cant be reactive.

The facts will determine the outcome, if he is involved he will be sacked or made to leave, that is inevitable as his position will be utterly untenable, regardless of feelings within the football club. 

I'd be gutted for the young man if so, he's obviously extremely talented and he's the first manager in a long time that has the universal backing of all the fans, which has gone a long long way to our on pitch recovery and performance.

 

Point well made. It all feels very raw right now but we still don’t truly know who did what and why. We also don’t know what individual punishments may look like. 
 

I expect Tonda will have to go one way or another. Even if it’s a genuine error on his part I think a ban is likely which would potentially make his position untenable even IF the club wanted him to stay. 
 

Clubs have done worse and got their act together again. 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, James G said:

Given the magnitude of the ban, the FA will ban Tonda for at least a year and whoever else was involved 

I expect they will impose a ban but this practice of spying is accepted in the highest league in the country. By the same token FIFA are unlikely to take any action. 

[James G]

Just now, tdmickey3 said:

Hopefully, but it shouldn't matter to us as he has to go along with anyone complicit.

I completely agree. I was shocked when I read about it. He needs to go

But then I thought, it was more playing four at the back that had the biggest positive affect and having a decent tall person up front. Once the confidence returned that was us

Tonda and spying probably had less impact than what we think because we had a decent team all along 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

42 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Given they thrown the book at us I expect they will at him as well. The Canada coach got a 12 month ban so expect he’ll get similar 

Yep, so a moot point anyway in regards to sacking or keeping him.

He will find a job in Germany soon enough. 

[UpweySaint]

1 minute ago, sfc4prem said:

Did Bielsa get banned? Sacked?

Similar offence, similar ethics involved. A new arbitrary rule from the EFL changes little in my mind.

The whole thing is embarrassing, silly and tinpot. Heads should roll.

However, in a dream land, if we could keep Tonda and players still respect him (i wonder if they buy into the demonisation the media and some fans have lapped up and regurgitated?), why not?

We've already been dragged through the mud. Why not stay dirty for a bit longer?

It is amazing just how different the response to the two has been. The Bielsa stuff was largely played as an idiosyncrasy of a football obsessive and most people moved on very quickly. 
 

The rules have changed and we’re guilty but some of the vilification from outside and in is OTT in my opinion. Is our offence worse than clubs trying to break/circumvent financial rules over multiple years? I would argue the images of Will Salt with his phone are easier to stoke flames than a balance sheet or an episode on a football finance podcast.

 

[James G]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I expect they will impose a ban but this practice of spying is accepted in the highest league in the country. By the same token FIFA are unlikely to take any action. 

I think the majority of teams in the Premier League are closed off

Alot of Championship teams are as well, which is why I think we didn't spy every week. There's only a few grounds where it's possible to spy

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, James G said:

I think the majority of teams in the Premier League are closed off

Alot of Championship teams are as well, which is why I think we didn't spy every week. There's only a few grounds where it's possible to spy

Namely, at Eastleigh

[S-Clarke]

Just now, UpweySaint said:

It is amazing just how different the response to the two has been. The Bielsa stuff was largely played as an idiosyncrasy of a football obsessive and most people moved on very quickly. 
 

The rules have changed and we’re guilty but some of the vilification from outside and in is OTT in my opinion. Is our offence worse than clubs trying to break/circumvent financial rules over multiple years? I would argue the images of Will Salt with his phone are easier to stoke flames than a balance sheet or an episode on a football finance podcast.

 

Leeds were bigger, Bielsa had a bigger reputation. 'Pep' and 'Poch' loved him, don't forget - he taught them football. Pulling Bielsa through the ringer wouldn't have been allowed, that's why it was all laughed off and giggled about by the media journos. God forbid the media upset Pep or any high profile EPL people.

Tonda, Southampton, who cares. What we've done is a disgrace, burn the whole place down.

[Hawkswood]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Leeds were bigger, Bielsa had a bigger reputation. 'Pep' and 'Poch' loved him, don't forget - he taught them football. Pulling Bielsa through the ringer wouldn't have been allowed, that's why it was all laughed off and giggled about by the media journos. God forbid the media upset Pep or any high profile EPL people.

Tonda, Southampton, who cares. What we've done is a disgrace, burn the whole place down.

Theres also the quite arbitrary 72 hours rule. Before that, fine, no problem. A minute after, kill them all.

[sfc4prem]

5 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

It is amazing just how different the response to the two has been. The Bielsa stuff was largely played as an idiosyncrasy of a football obsessive and most people moved on very quickly. 
 

The rules have changed and we’re guilty but some of the vilification from outside and in is OTT in my opinion. Is our offence worse than clubs trying to break/circumvent financial rules over multiple years? I would argue the images of Will Salt with his phone are easier to stoke flames than a balance sheet or an episode on a football finance podcast.

 

Agreed. This trial by media, if I'm honest, has fucking exhausted me. It reminds me of how woeful humanity can be, really.

[James G]

2 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

It is amazing just how different the response to the two has been. The Bielsa stuff was largely played as an idiosyncrasy of a football obsessive and most people moved on very quickly. 
 

The rules have changed and we’re guilty but some of the vilification from outside and in is OTT in my opinion. Is our offence worse than clubs trying to break/circumvent financial rules over multiple years? I would argue the images of Will Salt with his phone are easier to stoke flames than a balance sheet or an episode on a football finance podcast.

 

Leeds was worse, more frequent plus they trespassed, but Bielsa siezed the narrative straight away. We had a similar reaction at the beginning, but Middlesbrough seized the narrative this time and we played it totally wrong.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, James G said:

Leeds was worse, more frequent plus they trespassed, but Bielsa siezed the narrative straight away. We had a similar reaction at the beginning, but Middlesbrough seized the narrative this time and we played it totally wrong.

Bielsa straight away said yes I did it, so what?

Then immediately offered to pay any fine (or something like that)

 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Bielsa straight away said yes I did it, so what?

Then immediately offered to pay any fine (or something like that)

 

Yeah he took it on the chin, but....pulled the media with him, dragged them into a conference to explain tactics and how he did things. He seized the control of that situation from the outset and controlled the narrative, his reputation and the size of the Leeds media-cohort muted any negative pull from Derby.

Whilst we just sat back in silence, like stupid little school kids, went to the board room of the victim, tap them on the shoulder in secret and say 'sorry, we did it - but it's ok, it was a silly kid!'. That's how I describe it really, not much difference between both crimes, but one committed by adults, and the other committed by silly kids with no experience to deal with the aftermath.

But I do think we need to see this full report sooner rather than later, for everyone's sake. If this is worse than we imagine than everyone needs to know, if it truly has been blown out of all proportion as we all believe, then we need to know as it is tarnishing our reputation - we need to get our story out ASAP.

Edited 2 hours ago by S-Clarke

[Mr X]

Anyone who thinks tonda can stay and we can remain credible is completely deluded 

[Lighthouse]

37 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Theres also the quite arbitrary 72 hours rule. Before that, fine, no problem. A minute after, kill them all.

If it's arbritrary then why did we break it? Why not send people to spy on Boro three months ago, then we'd get away with it? It's quite straight forward, the closer it is to the date of the game, the more of an advantage you're likely to have it. That's why we did it and that's why there's a rule against it. A large number of rules are arbitrary, that doesn't make them wrong.

Drive at 31mph - you get fined

Want to buy alcohol aged 17 years and 364 days - Nope