Millwall 3-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

He was a bit out muscled to be honest. 

I think we really missed Charles today. 

Most of the team were outmuscled today. Outfought and outrun as well.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

Subs killed that game, Romeu not really up to speed. Aribo a disaster. Conceded the midfield, very lucky to get to 2 2

There aren't many grounds you go to where the atmosphere is all around the ground - it's just annoying it's that pointless noise they do.

Poor subs today. Minus point to Tonda. Would go as far as to say Aribo cost us the game. Waste of space. And Manning did more bad than good. Surely Wellington isn't that poor. When Robinson was on we had someone prepared to go at the opposition so bring on Matsuki rather than Aribo.

Also felt Armstrong was too far forward when we were playing out from the back, so there were no chances to pass to him to flick on to another runner.

Most important, I felt towards the end they wanted it more than us - which is something we have to get out of the system. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I think we were just missing one player too many,

And yes they were missing players, but arguably we're missing our best two in Scienza and Charles and then with Downes out as well, we were very light in midfield.

[madge]

1 hour ago, Themotherfunky said:

Matsuki and Welington must be absolutely dogshit in training if they can't get ahead of Aribo and Manning. 

 Joe must only be on the pitch to get eyes on him for January. 

 Manning must have pictures of someone on the board. Has he ever stopped a cross, or made any defensive contributions? 

Quote

Yet manning and aribo adored and have their own song… manning has done a lot more than aribo has in a saints shirt. Aribo has been dogshit since he joined, totally overrated. 

 

[Themotherfunky]

7 minutes ago, madge said:

 

Probably the same people that clap the team off after utter dog shit performances. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

14 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And yes they were missing players, but arguably we're missing our best two in Scienza and Charles and then with Downes out as well, we were very light in midfield.

Please you can't compare Millwall's resources with ours? The money we have spent compared to them etc etc.

[Katalinic]

We don't cope well with physical teams, a few too many son-in-laws out there today, we were at no point comfortable, credit to Millwall. Special mention to Aribo who put in one the laziest, disinterested performances I can remember. I hope he never plays for us again.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, maysie said:

Based on 20 mins after 6 months out of competitive football. Seems like sound judgement.

He was bigged up on here before today ! I hope he brings some defensive stability. 

[Saint NL]

The annoying thing is, if we conceded in the 87th minute you'd back the opposition to crack on and win it. We never looked like getting a third and in fact did the opposite. 

[chownie20]

Real shame as the table would have looked very different.  

Downes and Charles were needed there. Or a three instead maybe.

[Wade Garrett]

Really poor substitutions today.  We were second best.  They have an experienced manager who tactically did a number on us today.

We were lucky to get on level terms.  They fully deserved the win.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

15 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

We were lucky to get on level terms.

And we were lucky to take the lead. All around us were whining about Manning's awful corner and didn't notice the ref had pointed to the penalty spot for a shirt pull and we were practically on top of the goal. That said, it was a well taken penalty.

[AlexLaw76]

21 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Really poor substitutions today.  We were second best.  They have an experienced manager who tactically did a number on us today.

We were lucky to get on level terms.  They fully deserved the win.

Alex Neil is no fool, and he schooled Tonda today.

[Pamplemousse]

We were shit today but 4 wins in 5 is still decent. Just have to chalk it off as a bad day at the office and go again. Ipswich were flying and lost at Oxford so this league is tough.

Eckert will have learnt not to rely on Aribo, who was useless. Sell him ASAP

[S-Clarke]

We were really, really poor today. As bad as we were at QPR in most aspects. We couldn't control the game, we couldn't manage the game.

Millwall deserved to win that game 2 times over, we were no where near. Fortunate to even be in the conversation.

In the games against Charlton, Wednesday etc we were given space - they stood off us, so we had time to quickly move and go. Teams aren't going to do that every week, so we need more to our repertoire than hoping THB can receive the ball in space and play infield - you'll get 1 or 2 games a season where we get the space we had against Charlton, but this league doesn't work like that.

Millwall pressed/pushed/harried us as and it was similar to under Still really, we wilted. Stephens, for being a captain and all, couldn't marshal a back line if his life depended on it. THB went back to his awfulness. 

Tactically we didn't have any answer to Millwall today, I felt inexperience showed - much in the same way as it showed against the likes of Hull and Blackburn in earlier games too. We need an experienced manager.

[BotleySaint]

Hopefully Tonda will learn from today and not put Aribo back in again. Willing to give him more time. Hope we won't jump the gun and give him the job after this tho.

[SaintsRoyalty]

3 hours ago, macca155 said:

Subs killed that game, Romeu not really up to speed. Aribo a disaster. Conceded the midfield, very lucky to get to 2 2.

Absolute worldy from their CB. Tonight Matthew I will be 'Roberto Carlos'.

4 4 2 at the end would have stopped their momentum. Wellington on for Robinson, Romeu for Stephens. It's so bloody obvious 

Bazunu kept us in that today , pretty much no chance on the goals.

You comment like someone that dresses their dog in human clothes. Utterly embarrassing comment.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We were really, really poor today. As bad as we were at QPR in most aspects. We couldn't control the game, we couldn't manage the game.

Millwall deserved to win that game 2 times over, we were no where near. Fortunate to even be in the conversation.

In the games against Charlton, Wednesday etc we were given space - they stood off us, so we had time to quickly move and go. Teams aren't going to do that every week, so we need more to our repertoire than hoping THB can receive the ball in space and play infield - you'll get 1 or 2 games a season where we get the space we had against Charlton, but this league doesn't work like that.

Millwall pressed/pushed/harried us as and it was similar to under Still really, we wilted. Stephens, for being a captain and all, couldn't marshal a back line if his life depended on it. THB went back to his awfulness. 

Tactically we didn't have any answer to Millwall today, I felt inexperience showed - much in the same way as it showed against the likes of Hull and Blackburn in earlier games too. We need an experienced manager.

Exactly that. Pack midfield and that is that (largely). THB, or any o the 3 CBs, are not fucking prime Koeman who are silky on the. ball ffs

[Wade Garrett]

29 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And we were lucky to take the lead. All around us were whining about Manning's awful corner and didn't notice the ref had pointed to the penalty spot for a shirt pull and we were practically on top of the goal. That said, it was a well taken penalty.

I was right behind it and thought he had given them a free-kick.

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Very disappointing after the hope we’d turned a corner and we deserved nothing out of it. Thought there were comparisons with that shambles at Blackburn unfortunately. Outfought, poor substitutions, a saveable goal (albeit a different keeper) and the inevitable happened. 
 

Obviously missed Leo and Downes,  which makes the challenge at 3 up on Tuesday for the yellow even more infuriating but think they had more missing than us. Same old questions about keeper situation, physicality up front and indeed in general and if that formation limits us rather than get the best out of key players like Fellows.

Best move manager wise, who knows after that 

[Mr X]

We were second best everyetgere today and Millwall simply wanted it more which ultimately got them across the line... We are a completely different team without leo.... The wheels were always going to come off the winning run.. Not sure tonda had any plan B today! 

[Toussaint]

34 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Alex Neil is no fool, and he schooled Tonda today.

He did, he knew exactly what we would try to do and for the most part nullified us and exploited our weaknesses. 

[Toussaint]

I felt some of the issues today were that we appeared a bit arrogant and complacent after our recent good form.

Edited 12 hours ago by Toussaint

[richardc]

3 hours ago, redandwhitey said:

It was clear watching that, the coach felt possession deep in our half may stretch the game and open up the spaces further up the pitch. It worked a few times but Millwall generally stayed tight in formation and wouldn’t be drawn. A tactical battle that they won today.

it looked worse than it was but it was possession with a plan I thought not possession for its own sake 

You are absolutely correct and seemed OK for 20 mins then they moved up a few yards and gave us no space and you could see it clearly wasnt working after that and thats what worries me, Tonda did nothing to change the situation just carried on going nowhere. We were also completely outmuscled in the game. Decent coaches would have tweaked something to change the situation but Tonda did nothing

[Football Special]

3 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Tough game next, it’s how we bounce back that will be a measure of how good an option Tonda is going forwards. Another abject performance against Brum and maybe he isn’t the messiah. Win and it shows he can change it up. It also highlights how important Scienza is to us.

Should have Scienza, Downes and perhaps even Charles back for it , another 3 game week so will need them all 

[Football Special]

18 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I felt o e of the issues today is we appeared a bit arrogant and complacent after our recent form.

I agree and to be honest I've not been impressed with the fannying about in the 2nd half at Charlton and against Leicester, allowed ourselves to lose all intensity and show no ruthless streak at all and it felt that carried into today

[Football Special]

48 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We were really, really poor today. As bad as we were at QPR in most aspects. We couldn't control the game, we couldn't manage the game.

Millwall deserved to win that game 2 times over, we were no where near. Fortunate to even be in the conversation.

In the games against Charlton, Wednesday etc we were given space - they stood off us, so we had time to quickly move and go. Teams aren't going to do that every week, so we need more to our repertoire than hoping THB can receive the ball in space and play infield - you'll get 1 or 2 games a season where we get the space we had against Charlton, but this league doesn't work like that.

Millwall pressed/pushed/harried us as and it was similar to under Still really, we wilted. Stephens, for being a captain and all, couldn't marshal a back line if his life depended on it. THB went back to his awfulness. 

Tactically we didn't have any answer to Millwall today, I felt inexperience showed - much in the same way as it showed against the likes of Hull and Blackburn in earlier games too. We need an experienced manager.

Completely agree mate, said after the game it reminded me of Hull where they were stronger than us and we struggled to compete , players and manager need to be more streetwise 

[SNSUN]

3 hours ago, Football Special said:

Should have Scienza, Downes and perhaps even Charles back for it , another 3 game week so will need them all 

Agree with the first two, but unless something has changed, Charles may be out until the new year according to the reports when he got injured. We'll see. Downes has a few knockers this season but he's still a good option for us and we can all see how much difference Scienza makes to us. Another Scienza-type signing in January would be nice.

[Football Special]

4 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Agree with the first two, but unless something has changed, Charles may be out until the new year according to the reports when he got injured. We'll see. Downes has a few knockers this season but he's still a good option for us and we can all see how much difference Scienza makes to us. Another Scienza-type signing in January would be nice.

Ah right I lose track of these, that's s shame 

[Football Special]

 

[coalman]

That was every bit as bad as we've been under Still, Juric, Rusk or Martin. No out ball from defence. Slow predictable sideways passing. Every cross looked threatening. Players not closed down. Lost first, second and third balls. Subs made us worse and players not seemingly bothered. We were lucky to score any. They were unlucky to score three.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

 

Was all a bit odd because I don't even think Millwall consider West Ham rivals.

And I would say, while I didn't do a Turkish and go in all guns blazing and instead took my scarf off, I went in to the Den chippy right outside their main entrance and had one of the best pre-match meals I've had for a long time.

[AlexLaw76]

24 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Was all a bit odd because I don't even think Millwall consider West Ham rivals.

 

Really?

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Wasn't their chant 'nobody likes us and we don't care'? They don't care about other clubs. If anything, Charlton is probably their closest opposition.

[StrangelyBrown]

13 hours ago, Saint86 said:

You can't blame bazunu for any of those goals. Bizzare narrative. He also made 2 very good saves and a great rush of his line to cover another awful back pass.

Did I blame him for the goals? It isn't just about goals. Having someone who is iffy a lot of time is going to undermine confidence and lead to us panicking. Did our defence panic yesterday???? Of course they did.

Having a supposed captain who displays no leadership and goes missing a lot also is going to undermine our confidence.

I stand by my point.

[Mr X]

10 hours ago, Toussaint said:

He did, he knew exactly what we would try to do and for the most part nullified us and exploited our weaknesses. 

This combined with not enough work rate Millwall simply worked harder and wanted it a lot more!.... Now we will see how tonda copes with this team after a loss and the honeymoon period is over 

[die Mannyschaft]

12 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Really poor substitutions today.  We were second best.  They have an experienced manager who tactically did a number on us today.

We were lucky to get on level terms.  They fully deserved the win.

We cant play the way for two halves which is another major issue. The subs always have us ease off the pace and implement more side and back stuff.

Saints need to stick to positive forward moving football all 97 mins. Otherwise half the games left this season will be like Millwall.  

Millwall played the same game why cant we do that even if its a cut down version. 

There will be more suspensions and injuries so how will we cope then? 

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Wasn't their chant 'nobody likes us and we don't care'? They don't care about other clubs. If anything, Charlton is probably their closest opposition.

West were their original rivals as West ham were not at the ground they are at now.

Great atmosphere as always in non bowl type grounds. The Dell used to be very good but now St Mary's has just dropped off the noise level. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

31 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

We cant play the way for two halves which is another major issue. The subs always have us ease off the pace and implement more side and back stuff.

Saints need to stick to positive forward moving football all 97 mins. Otherwise half the games left this season will be like Millwall.  

Millwall played the same game why cant we do that even if its a cut down version. 

There will be more suspensions and injuries so how will we cope then? 

I dont see why we cant play positive football for 90 minutes. 

Other teams do it.

Yes, will say, that Millwall worked extremely hard to contain Saints but despite run of play Saints went ahead and then got a goal back.

Mentally the team is weak and yesterday especially the subs made a poor situation worse.

As others have said the likes of Stephens should be stepping up, managing the on field situation. 

It doesn't help that the team resorted to hoofball in the end as the ball just coming back.

 

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I dont see why we cant play positive football for 90 minutes. 

Other teams do it.

Yes, will say, that Millwall worked extremely hard to contain Saints but despite run of play Saints went ahead and then got a goal back.

Mentally the team is weak and yesterday especially the subs made a poor situation worse.

As others have said the likes of Stephens should be stepping up, managing the on field situation. 

It doesn't help that the team resorted to hoofball in the end as the ball just coming back.

 

Whilst it was poor game management the manager has one arm tied behind his back as there's no one to hold the ball at the top end of the pitch when we are under the cosh. 

[Crab Lungs]

Had a few hours to reflect on it.

My very brief take: We were bullied, continuously and miscalculated tactically.

I think Tonda knew we were in for a tough game but considered using the Russball philosophy as a way to take the sting out of the game and that eventually, Millwall’s ferocity would settle down - yet it didn’t.

Obviously Leo would have helped and would have won us a few Greek kicks and helped with the transitions but Tonda obviously thought we could do it without him. 

We were the caught in between going toe-to-toe with Millwall or going all in with our starting tactics and seeing if it’ll settle down and allow us to impose ourselves and we persisted with the latter. 
 

I think a 4-2-3-1 would have given us better coverage defensively in the centre and wide but ultimately, Alex Neil got it right and we never really got it together. 
 

Better side won, though with a fit CDM and a better goalkeeper we’d have scraped something possibly.

A learning curve.

 

[Football Special]

3 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Whilst it was poor game management the manager has one arm tied behind his back as there's no one to hold the ball at the top end of the pitch when we are under the cosh. 

You'd hope we'll address this in January, a decent loan perhaps, but SR have neglected key positions for years so doubt that will change 

[markr27]

Robinson poor, Aribo poor, Romeu miles off it. Repeated long balls to no-one or to Armstrong.
Backwards, sideways, backwards, give ball away 90% of the time.

Otherwise, it was OK.

Edited 1 hour ago by markr27

[tdmickey3]

Game management at 1 nil and 2- 2 was poor by both players and manager.

Bringing on Aribo was up there with the most ridiculous.

How Tonda responds tactically along with players, will show if he is the right man long term,I have my doubts 

[Draino76]

5 hours ago, Football Special said:

 

I was in the Dockers stand and they found it amusing. They countered with 'were just a bus stop in Portsmouth'.

[spyinthesky]

13 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

Hopefully Tonda will learn from today and not put Aribo back in again. Willing to give him more time. Hope we won't jump the gun and give him the job after this tho.

Eckhert reckoned he was pleased with Aribo's performance yesterday according to his interview with The Echo!!

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, Crab Lungs said:

Had a few hours to reflect on it.

My very brief take: We were bullied, continuously and miscalculated tactically.

I think Tonda knew we were in for a tough game but considered using the Russball philosophy as a way to take the sting out of the game and that eventually, Millwall’s ferocity would settle down - yet it didn’t.

Obviously Leo would have helped and would have won us a few Greek kicks and helped with the transitions but Tonda obviously thought we could do it without him. 

We were the caught in between going toe-to-toe with Millwall or going all in with our starting tactics and seeing if it’ll settle down and allow us to impose ourselves and we persisted with the latter. 
 

I think a 4-2-3-1 would have given us better coverage defensively in the centre and wide but ultimately, Alex Neil got it right and we never really got it together. 
 

Better side won, though with a fit CDM and a better goalkeeper we’d have scraped something possibly.

A learning curve.

 

I suppose yesterday was indicative of the Championship.
Millwall won comfortably against a team in form and yet they were comfortably despatched last week by the team down the road who now sit in the relegation zone.
Unless Saints can manage to shore up their defence and find a robust target man and possibly a top rated 'keeper, then the team is destined for mid table this season and the possible loss of better players in the summer.
There is, of course, the possibility of sneaking into the play offs but even if we did go up there would have to be some inspired sourcing of Premiership ready players and the owners finding the money to finance the necessary purchases.

[Tamesaint]

In retrospect Fraser rather than Robinson would have been a better replacement for Scienza. His experience would have helped to withstand the hostile atmosphere. Robinson had a poor game but his fresh legs and direct running would have given us an outlet in the last few minutes if it had been him that came on to replace Fraser instead of vice versa. 

[Cabrone]

Dissappointing but Millwall are a decent outfit and Scienza was missing. What a player he is. It's not the end of the world.

Must get back on track for Birmingham.