James Ward-Prowse

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

He started less than half our PL games over those 4 seasons, he only became a true regular under Hasenhuttl 

Flynn Downes is 25 and has started seven Premier League matches in his entire life.

[gio1saints]

Comparing JWP to FD is just silly as many of the posts above show in detail. 

Yes, FD has been fundamental  to everything good for us , this season, in the Championship, but comparisons casting shade on JWP’s career are so way off the mark as to be laughable. 
 

As for description of JWP as “ average” - think the word that should be used is exceptional. He is a far from an average baller - expect to see him in top line management one day when his excellent playing career in professional football is over. 

[david in sweden]

On 08/05/2024 at 23:27, Osvaldorama said:

l do agree with this, but I don’t think its that mental of an opinion. 

I actually do think Downes has the potential to be better than JWP if given a chance at PL. He is a “proper DM” that does his job well and understands his role deeply. Loves a tackle, fantastic touch. He really reminds me of Morgan Schneiderlin. 
 

Aside from his free kicks, JWP was a bit of a nothing player when he didn’t have Romeu next to him. I can barely think of any games that JWP directly dragged us through (without his free kicks).

Obviously Downes hasn’t proven himself at the highest level whatsoever, whereas JWP has many, many times. But in open play it feel like Downes has a bigger overall impact on the team than JWP. 

 

 

The whole team was the worse after Romeu's departure, although I didn't begrudge him the move, and his career in Spain has blossomed at a late age.

He and JWP had a good partnership but many people tend to devalue Prowsey's contribution, and for those who only credit him with the free kicks 

don't remember that in many cases his free kick goals got us valuable points. If free kicks like his can be easily disregarded , why aren't there

half a dozen other players just behind his tally. ?   

JWP's contribution to the club is unparalleled and not just because of the length of service the long run of uninterrupted, injury-free games .

Many times I 've watched his sweeper-type role and almost faultless passing skills.  His main fault was that he wasn't demonstrative enough in the

media and  (unlike a few others in the past ) wasn't all mouth and trousers, and understood the faults better than the players who committed them. 

On the rare occasions that he went on the attack, he showed good vision, and in emergencies was as good a full back as any we've had . 

 

Downes has good skill but his injury problems of late have become a little disturbing, but I'd sign him in a blink if WHam willingly let him go.

 

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

We finally sign a teenage apprentice to back him up

Lavia was not signing for us to sit on the bench as "back up" to Romeu.

Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Flynn Downes is 25 and has started seven Premier League matches in his entire life.

That's seven more than Rickie Lambert at the same age (for example)...

 

(if that comment doesn't warrant one of CB's scathing pithy retorts then I'll be highly disappointed... )

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

Uranus?

[Osvaldorama]

16 hours ago, CB Fry said:

But Flynn Downes would have been an irreplaceable lychpin in that team would he?

Even his biggest fan on here admits he wouldn't get regular game time at a team pushing for Europe. JWP did.

And where is JWP now? 
 

On the bench again, as West Ham slowly fall away from Europe... The gap between Prowsey and Downes is nowhere near as big as you’re making out. 
 

(To be clear - I love prowsey. I’m not trying to slate him at all. But you’re overrating him massively here. Downes could easily prove to be better if given a run at the PL. )

I’d happily take both of them back if we go up. 

Edited 10 May, 2024 by Osvaldorama

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

As for description of JWP as “ average” - think the word that should be used is exceptional. He is a far from an average baller - 

Fuck me, you’re easily pleased.

 

And what the fuck is a “baller”, some sort of gigolo? 

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

And where is JWP now? 
 

On the bench again, as West Ham slowly fall away from Europe... The gap between Prowsey and Downes is nowhere near as big as you’re making out. 
 

(To be clear - I love prowsey. I’m not trying to slate him at all. But you’re overrating him massively here. Downes could easily prove to be better if given a run at the PL. )

I’d happily take both of them back if we go up. 

I haven't rated him, over or under.

Just saying what has actually happened in reality (seasons and seasons of Premier League appearances vs seven entire Premier League starts and sent out on loan).

JWP on the bench for the exact same team the Downes got bombed out of completely is not quite the slamdunk you think it is.

[franniesTache]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, you’re easily pleased.

 

And what the fuck is a “baller”, some sort of gigolo? 

A baller is american slang for a basketball player, i had no idea Prowse played basketball (badly or well) but apparently he does.

Anyway he's a skate so fuck him. Served a purpose whilst he was here but he'll always be a skate so no love lost now he's gone

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Lavia was not signing for us to sit on the bench as "back up" to Romeu.

Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

I agree but the club still made a mistake not signing two midfielders instead of one when we'd suffered the previous couple seasons whenever Romeu was out.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I agree but the club still made a mistake not signing two midfielders instead of one when we'd suffered the previous couple seasons whenever Romeu was out.

We did, we signed AMN, he was just sh*t.

[Bad Wolf]

On 07/05/2024 at 20:28, Saint_clark said:

 

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. Instead he'll be a player not really regarded as much by anyone. 

Club legend until he had 3-4 bad games and he's called every name under the sun, questioned what dirt he must have on whoever our "clown manager" happened to be at the time and accused of stealing a living.

[Bad Wolf]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We did, we signed AMN, he was just sh*t.

There was no aspect of football that he was good at. I honestly don't get what his USP was meant to be.

[StrangelyBrown]

12 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Comparing JWP to FD is just silly as many of the posts above show in detail. 

Yes, FD has been fundamental  to everything good for us , this season, in the Championship, but comparisons casting shade on JWP’s career are so way off the mark as to be laughable. 
 

As for description of JWP as “ average” - think the word that should be used is exceptional. He is a far from an average baller - expect to see him in top line management one day when his excellent playing career in professional football is over. 

Just checking that you really mean "exceptional" as in the same level as Rodri or Rice or maybe Camavinga?

JWP is a better than average premier league player playing for a better than average premier league team. Nothing more, but still proven to be capable at a higher level than Downes.

Perhaps you should think before calling people silly or laughable?

[LeG]

On 09/05/2024 at 13:56, Turkish said:

Romeu wanted to go back to Spain pal. I know as fans we think the club should force players to stay because they're under contract etc but he had a new kid and wanted to go home, the club did right by him, he was replaced by Lavia which was a good signing. Of all the sticks to beat the club with this isn't one of them. 

Actually, this is incorrect. Romeu was happy to stay at Saints, even with the offer from Spain. JS also wanted to stay. Proper players who love Saints. Club was a mess.

[CB Fry]

13 hours ago, trousers said:

That's seven more than Rickie Lambert at the same age (for example)...

 

(if that comment doesn't warrant one of CB's scathing pithy retorts then I'll be highly disappointed... )

J W

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, LeG said:

Actually, this is incorrect. Romeu was happy to stay at Saints, even with the offer from Spain. JS also wanted to stay. Proper players who love Saints. Club was a mess.

Not what I heard, I was told he wanted to go back to Spain but would have stayed if the club refused to sell, as that’s the sort of guy he is. However we did right by him and let him go with our blessing and brought in Lavia. I loved Romeu one of my favourite players of recent times. Much better team with him In it.

[chiknsmack]

17 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Lavia was not signing for us to sit on the bench as "back up" to Romeu.

Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

A teenager was not signed for us to play every minute in the PL as our only option in the most important position on the park. Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

Lavia was signed to start the season as Romeu's backup/apprentice before taking over around mid-season as the main man once he had gotten up to speed with men's football. Perhaps Romeu could then be let leave in January, but more likely he sees out the last six months of his contract as Lavia's backup before leaving.

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

A teenager was not signed for us to play every minute in the PL as our only option in the most important position on the park. Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

 

You'll never belive the name of the planet in which Lavia played 30 odd times for us last season x x x

Signed to play, he played.

[The Kraken]

5 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

A teenager was not signed for us to play every minute in the PL as our only option in the most important position on the park. Honestly I don't understand what planet some of you live on.

Lavia was signed to start the season as Romeu's backup/apprentice before taking over around mid-season as the main man once he had gotten up to speed with men's football. Perhaps Romeu could then be let leave in January, but more likely he sees out the last six months of his contract as Lavia's backup before leaving.

Sorry but you’re talking complete bollocks. It was eminently clear from pre season and early season that Lavia was intended to be the main man. In that PL season he started all of our games in August; so right from the first game he was pitched into a starting first team role. Romeu started just one game in August and was on the bench in three more before his move to Girona was agreed.

[chiknsmack]

19 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Sorry but you’re talking complete bollocks. It was eminently clear from pre season and early season that Lavia was intended to be the main man. In that PL season he started all of our games in August; so right from the first game he was pitched into a starting first team role. Romeu started just one game in August and was on the bench in three more before his move to Girona was agreed.

It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players.

It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, chiknsmack said:

It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players.

It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed.

Literally nobody said that Lavia was bought to be the only DM. But he was very clearly identified as our primary starting CM that season, right from the very first pre season games the intention was clear that this lad was deemed something special.  Then all through pre season and then the league in August, he was absolutely front and centre. I remember watching the pre season games and commenting on here that I was surprised how Romeu wasn’t getting much action and Lavia seemed to be being favoured.

It’s a complete and utter fabrication to suggest, what was it you said? Ah yes, “Lavia was signed to start the season as Romeu's backup/apprentice before taking over around mid-season”. He didn’t start as backup to anybody, right from the very first pre season game he was massively prominent, then he started literally every single league game until Romeu left the club. SFC also signed Maitland-Niles, a terrible signing but quite clearly the intention was he’d be the support act in CM to Lavia’s main role.

 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, chiknsmack said:

It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players.

It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed.

I would argue that both Lavia and Tino were investments that the club envisaged huge return on in the near future, and that they'd play pretty much from day 1 - and they both did. They were both head and shoulders above everyone else which was pretty much expected by the club I'd have thought.

I agree that he wasn't bought as the only DM, sadly we brought in AMN who we thought could do that role - but he's not even a footballer, so that was a poor sight by the club.

Lavia and Tino were brought as first team players though, with a view to sell on for mega money within 12 months - which happened pretty much.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I thought there was a mix of things going on with Romeu's departure.

He was very happy at the club and the area. He had become our regular starter by then.

Later, and I read it as contract negotiations, there was a hint of a move somewhere else.

Livramento's success was the perfect example for SR (even if he was starting to look tired, before his injury)

They were also looking to significantly reduce the wage bill.

Lavia turned out to be another good fit.

Whether the club had told Romeo that his minutes would be more limited. Or if he could see SR's approach and saw he wasn't going to be first choice.

The club may have had to give Latvia some assurances to get him here too.

When the offer came in, it would have been a tough decision for Romeu. Some of it suited him. Some of it suited the club's goals. The deal needed some additional help to get over the line, even then.

It would have been perfect if the club had realised it was a position that already needed strengthening. That young players are not going to be able to consistently perform across a season, not to mention fatigue and injury.

There were plenty of minutes there for both of them. It's a shame that the club didn't find a way for that to be communicated to both enough, that they both wanted to stay. Had they both played, then there would perhaps been an issue elsewhere, but could have been resolved. We really needed both.

AMN, as others who knew much more than I did about him, commented on what a poor replacement he was for that position at the time.

There's a bit of me that thinks the club gets carried away with itself (not just SR). I'd hope it's mainly PR, but suspect they actually believe it. So cutting wages and bringing in young talent may have made them keener than they should have been to move some players on.

Throughout all this, and his career, Romeu was a consummate professional. One of my favourites in recent years. A mix of everything we want in a midfielder from breaking up play, technical ability and getting us organised and moving.

[East Kent Saint]

Scores from open play to start WHU revival , now 3-1 !

[CB Fry]

Just the fiftieth first team appearance for JWP for West Ham.

Such a shame he hasn't had any game time at all and has spent the whole season kicking his heels 😪😪😪😪😪

tHe gRaSs iS nOt aLwAyS gReEnER

[SaintTex]

10 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Just the fiftieth first team appearance for JWP for West Ham.

Such a shame he hasn't had any game time at all and has spent the whole season kicking his heels 😪😪😪😪😪

tHe gRaSs iS nOt aLwAyS gReEnER

 

Interestingly.. 

JWP 2,916 league minutes

the other 4 top players we sold have less league minutes combined : 2,356

• ABK 163
• Lavia 32
• Salisu 855
• Livramento 1306

Edited 12 May, 2024 by SaintTex

[JRM]

21 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I thought there was a mix of things going on with Romeu's departure.

He was very happy at the club and the area. He had become our regular starter by then.

Later, and I read it as contract negotiations, there was a hint of a move somewhere else.

Livramento's success was the perfect example for SR (even if he was starting to look tired, before his injury)

They were also looking to significantly reduce the wage bill.

Lavia turned out to be another good fit.

Whether the club had told Romeo that his minutes would be more limited. Or if he could see SR's approach and saw he wasn't going to be first choice.

The club may have had to give Latvia some assurances to get him here too.

When the offer came in, it would have been a tough decision for Romeu. Some of it suited him. Some of it suited the club's goals. The deal needed some additional help to get over the line, even then.

It would have been perfect if the club had realised it was a position that already needed strengthening. That young players are not going to be able to consistently perform across a season, not to mention fatigue and injury.

There were plenty of minutes there for both of them. It's a shame that the club didn't find a way for that to be communicated to both enough, that they both wanted to stay. Had they both played, then there would perhaps been an issue elsewhere, but could have been resolved. We really needed both.

AMN, as others who knew much more than I did about him, commented on what a poor replacement he was for that position at the time.

There's a bit of me that thinks the club gets carried away with itself (not just SR). I'd hope it's mainly PR, but suspect they actually believe it. So cutting wages and bringing in young talent may have made them keener than they should have been to move some players on.

Throughout all this, and his career, Romeu was a consummate professional. One of my favourites in recent years. A mix of everything we want in a midfielder from breaking up play, technical ability and getting us organised and moving.

At the time I recall talk that Romeu's departure was also linked somehow to our dealings with Man City, we were doing loads of business with them and Romeu moved to Girona owned by the same people.

[Guest]

James Ward-Prowse was on The Fozcast (Ben Foster podcast) recently. 

This episode was released today.

Was gutted to leave, pleased to see the club do so well, left to maximise his chances of returning to the England squad. Kind of sums it up.

 

Edited 13 June, 2024 by FarehamSaintJames

[sfc4prem]

36 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

James Ward-Prowse was on The Fozcast (Ben Foster podcast) recently. 

This episode was released today.

Was gutted to leave, pleased to see the club do so well, left to maximise his chances of returning to the England squad. Kind of sums it up.

 

Pretty much confirms everything we already knew, then!

 

Don't reckon we'll see him back, which is a fucking shame.

[Dusic]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24386526.james-ward-prowse-opens-heart-break-southampton-exit/?ref=twtrec

Thats the way to leave a club (minus the relegation bit).

Hope, and assume he would get a brilliant reception next season.

 

[Guest]

Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club.

Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

54 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club.

Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back.

To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. 

[stevy777_x]

56 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. 

He didn’t want to stay

[Convict Colony]

Nailed on JWP to score last minute free kick to win the game for west ham and break beckhams record at st marys this season.

[david in sweden]

6 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

He didn’t want to stay

I believe that ...but surely few would have denied him the (last) chance to play Prem. football and David Moyes gave him that opportunity.

West Ham's (fans / directors) demands were far above the overall quality of their squad, but Prowsey DAJF them in a poorly-balanced and 

inconsistent side.   In short, they lacked a number of players in key areas who (might) have made the difference.   (Saints know that problem).

 

I suspect that (in an ideal world) JWP might have  seen himself getting a shoe into the England squad before it's too late (even if not as a starter),

but Southgate continually ignored him in favour of the likes of Henderson and Phillips who were little more than a loud voice in the dressing room, 

and now the general standard of England's corners and free-kicks are appalling and provide few chances - even for the best of strikers. 

 

Now it appears Prowsey may become "surplus to requirements"  for the new manager who will want to sign some his own favourite targets.

It's difficult to see where JWP might go (other than returning to SMS ), but he may get a lifeline if maybe Tottenham could use his talents, but

no other London side would be a beneficial move for him as Fulham and Brentford look to be on a downward spiral, and Arsenal have bought Rice. 

 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

10 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. 

His own finances of course, not the club's.

[Dman]

12 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club.

Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back.

I'd say its a pretty safe bet to think that JWP wouldn't upset the dressing room... 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

His own finances of course, not the club's.

No the clubs, they could not afford his wages, its well documented he did not have a relegation clause in his contract.

Edited 14 June, 2024 by Toussaint

[Saint86]

Some of the gobshite fans that continue to slag him off are either stupid or incredibly immature imo. The reasons for his move are obvious, and by all accounts it was a very tough choice for him. All in all, he chose to let go of saints (which he very clearly cares deeply about) in a gamble to play for england in a major tournament. He backed himself, but he didn't wager on southgate continuing to shaft him - particularly with his frankly crazy early form at west ham and still getting overlooked for england. Its worth noting as well, that anything he says about saints and his move at the current time has to be tempered by the fact that he is a west ham player and has to not upset their fans either - but you can bet that what he really thinks is he wishes he'd never left to chase a call up from the fraud southgate and had instead led us to promotion.

I'd have him back if the right deal could be struck - and it strikes me we could well get one of downes or JWP this summer (stranger things have happened). But i don't think it would necessarily be the swansong some imagine. The reality is that he did leave the dressing room in the championship to go play prem football and chase england, they managed to get up without him, and it will not be the same for him coming back now - things have moved on. Similarly his bond with the fans will be weakened, and he'll obviously attract more flack if we go through periods of poor form etc. now.

Its a shame its all played out the way it has. But wish him well regardless, hope he gets a good reception when we play them, and hopefully we do get to see him again in a saints shirt (whilst he's still a good player).

Edited 14 June, 2024 by Saint86

[Bad Wolf]

The fans slagging him off for leaving are probably the same ones who were ready to bin him off to Watford for £5 Million and calling him every name under the sun when he misplaced a few passes.

This "loyalty" and respect for the club that tedious fans go on about only ever works one way.

[trousers]

F*** it... I know I've been banging on all window about signing a Lambert-esque centre forward but let's just get everyone's favourite son-in-law back into the fold instead, play him higher up the pitch, get him taking the free-kicks again and bag the c.10 goals per season we know he's capable of. Get it done SR, you cheeky rascals!

Are you with me @Lord Duckhunter or what...? 😁

Edited 29 August, 2024 by trousers

[Dman]

We dont need him, but hes an improvement on Aribo and Smallbone and on freekicks alone, will get us more goals that the 2 of those combined. 

If we can agree a loan deal for him, as long as its not at the detriment of us bringing in a number 9, I'd say its a no brainer. 

If anything, his leadership and experience of 'digging in' during a relegation battle will be worth the loan fee alone. 

[Polegategavin243]

34 minutes ago, trousers said:

F*** it... I know I've been banging on all window about signing a Lambert-esque centre forward but let's just get everyone's favourite son-in-law back into the fold instead, play him higher up the pitch, get him taking the free-kicks again and bag the c.10 goals per season we know he's capable of. Get it done SR, you cheeky rascals!

Are you with me @Lord Duckhunter or what...? 😁

My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder.
 

We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!!

Sound familiar.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said:

We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards

Isn't that more to do with us tending to play him as a holding midfielder rather than as a 'No.8', the latter of which I think he's far more suited to...?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

12 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said:

My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder.
 

We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!!

Sound familiar.

We also saw him score nine goals. I would recommend that you look for the positives in our players or you will be constantly be down. I would be absolutely delighted to resign a talisman like Prowsey! 

[BotleySaint]

Would be amazing and a great signing for us. But surely we'd need to loan/sell Aribo or Smallbone first.

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said:

My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder.
 

We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!!

Sound familiar.

I think we know the positives and negatives of jwp a fair bit more than a West ham fan. 

[pingpong]

Did he get the free kick record yet?