Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[kitch]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It’s literally their business so they probably do have an interest in it I would say. That’s me done for today ffs 🤣

It is, but they're submitting to an independant committee. They should present their case; explain their rules; explain how they believe SFC have broken those rules, and leave them to it.
It's literally the point of using an independant board to determine an outcome to show that no bias or prejudice has been taken into account. Otherwise they'd just do it themselves.

If the EFL have leaned on the board heavily, it's almost akin to influencing a witness. 

[Saint Scott]

What time did the hearing start yesterday? I'm expecting we won't get an EFL statement tonight due it not starting until 18:00

[jamesfp1]

Conspiracy time. It's going to come out that all clubs have been doing it, nobody gets promoted meaning no one goes down from the prem and Spurs are saved. 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Saint Scott said:

What time did the hearing start yesterday? I'm expecting we won't get an EFL statement tonight due it not starting until 18:00

There's no way they don't announce the outcome tonight, it's already getting tight enough to game day.

[Midfield_General]

9 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

That’s me done for today ffs 🤣

At last, some good news 

[kitch]

4 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

It doesn’t matter who you have as a defence lawyer when your CEO admits guilt in front of a room full of people to the person who is prosecuting them. 

The cheating is on the management/ analytics team (specifics tbc), but the way Parsons has handled it has been absolutely inept.

He fucked us before our defence could get off the ground or the panel had even sat down. 

In fairness we do know how 'bang to rights' we really are, or how deep this is. It could be damage-limitation on his part.

Or ineptitude.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

At last, some good news 

An outcome nobody will be appealing.

[kitch]

1 minute ago, jamesfp1 said:

Conspiracy time. It's going to come out that all clubs have been doing it, nobody gets promoted meaning no one goes down from the prem and Spurs are saved. 

I knew they'd survive somehow! 😒

[saintant]

1 minute ago, kitch said:

It is, but they're submitting to an independant committee. They should present their case; explain their rules; explain how they believe SFC have broken those rules, and leave them to it.
It's literally the point of using an independant board to determine an outcome to show that no bias or prejudice has been taken into account. Otherwise they'd just do it themselves.

If the EFL have leaned on the board heavily, it's almost akin to influencing a witness. 

You can't tell him I'm afraid, he lives in his own little bubble 🙂

[Saint Scott]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

There's no way they don't announce the outcome tonight, it's already getting tight enough to game day.

I agree on the timeframe. Just interested to know how long the hearing ran yesterday as this isn't going to be wrapped up in an hour is it

[Pamplemousse]

I'm going for an announcement at 7.20pm, just to rub salt into the wounds

[Midfield_General]

4 minutes ago, kitch said:

In fairness we do know how 'bang to rights' we really are, or how deep this is. It could be damage-limitation on his part.

Or ineptitude.

That’s not how legal defences work though. You pay top whack to get the best possible lawyer who gets paid millions to convince people that black is white and then shut the fuck up and let them try and dig you out of trouble. 

Hence why the first thing they always tell you to do is say ‘no comment’ to everything, however much evidence there might be that you did something. Just shut up and let them handle it. 

Honestly, has no-one else seen 24 hours in police custody? 

Edited 1 hour ago by Midfield_General

[sockeye]

Just redo the playoffs during the world cup in the yanks' stadia. Just scrap some pointless matches like Uzbekistan vs Tunisia and jobs a good'un.

[kitch]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

That’s not how legal defences work though. You pay top whack to get the best possible lawyer who gets paid millions to convince people that black is white and then shut the fuck up and let them try and dig you out of trouble. 

Fair. I'm just trying to be positive, I don't want to hate every senior member of SFC staff 😆

[AlexLaw76]

Anyone really believe who ever is hearing this out is going to say their colleagues got it drastically wrong 24 hours ago?

not going to happen. At best a few points back, probably as as a suspended sanction 

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Anyone really believe who ever is hearing this out is going to say their colleagues got it drastically wrong 24 hours ago?

not going to happen. At best a few points back, probably as as a suspended sanction 

Will end up with 2 point deduction and remain expelled like the naughty kid.

One point deduction for each league game spied on.

[LegalEagle]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Anyone really believe who ever is hearing this out is going to say their colleagues got it drastically wrong 24 hours ago?

not going to happen. At best a few points back, probably as as a suspended sanction 

I think you will be proved to be right unfortunately.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

First post for ages and the point may have previously been made before but : 

 

We get kicked out of the chance to win promotion for spying offences ( multiple) yet the punishment  for say, a Boro player simulating a foul in the penalty area in the last minute at SMS which means they win that game 2-1 via a cheated penalty and go to the final itself is….if caught, a yellow card. That’s it. Outcone of both types of cheating is the same - the punishment in a completely different scale.

If the equivalent of four points and potentially £200m lost revenue plus a staggering g loss of goodwill and reputational harm is appropriate for 3 cases of amateur spying then the EFL should revise the penalties for players cheating on the pitch - when it’s blatantly obvious that this is more likely to influence the result of any game. 
If Boro win and go up - then the next time Hackney falls over clutching his head from a fake punch Middlesborough should receive a massive fine and points deductions. Over and over again for each bit of on pitch cheating. 
 

That is not what will happen though. The pearl clutching do gooders who are crowing about how they abhor cheats will carry on - they abhor cheats as long as it’s off the pitch - ON THE PITCH - which is in fact gamesmanship is apparently not cheating not serious and wrist slap material. Double standards exposed by our punishment basically. 

Good to see you post again, Gio.

All the on field cheating have rules in place around them already. So, don't apply here, as blatant as they can be.

The panel are not being swayed by the reward at stake. They are seeing it as a straight rule breach. Since the punishment is open, they've removed us from it.

Double standards and various forms of cheating/ gamesmanship are rife. The EFL could argue that this rule was helping to remove one aspect of it. Shame they didn't get round to setting out punishments at the time.

4 hours ago, trousers said:

As I mentioned the other day, when coming up with a predicted outcome in a situation like this, it's always best to go for a realistic 'worst case scenario ', as it means you either get to play your "ner ner ner ner ner, told you so" card, or your "phew, glad I was proven wrong" card. You can't really lose when predicting the worst outcome... We should all try it sometime, rather than being so blimin' optimistic!

(Or, better still, go with what is known as the 'Glasgow' methodology and post different predicted outcomes but only quote yourself on the one that ended up happening... You get awarded an extra special medal for that one... ) 

This was a very rare occasion I decided to be optimistic. That's not happening again.

3 hours ago, Saint_lambden said:

Snippet from the POC I used to get info from (left in August) but still knows people at the club: 

Players held a meeting with Phil Parsons this morning upon arrival to training. It got pretty heated, some them accusing him of a cover-up and putting their careers in jeopardy.  He said he took the view, to not reveal full extent of the spying to them so they could concentrate on the semi-final/final. Said he didn't want them to find out the verdict at the same time as everyone else but the club had no control over the announcement from the EFL. 

Players wanted to know who would lead the team if (in the unlikely instance) we are reinstated and play on Saturday. He wasn't able to answer that. One player (no mention of who) made the point that it shouldn't be the case that Tonda takes the team if we're reinstated as if it's all okay then. 

Stephens has tried to calm tensions and be mediator. Even some of the training ground staff (not in Tonda's direct team) made their voices heard. 

No mention of if the manager was there and took training. What a clusterf--*k. 

Parsons change will be happing part of his statement, p,us the player reaction really means Tonda is gone.

The potential wage increases, bonuses, sponsorship deals and career progression that's just come to a screeching halt, mean there's little chance of them supporting Tonda going forward.

Parsons being the lightning rod for their frustrations, and his chat with Gibson should see him depart too. Spors, who brought Tonda in, will potentially be another one. Especially, if he knew.

 

3 hours ago, trousers said:

 

 

A statement from Phil Parsons, Chief Executive, Southampton Football Club.

 

We have appealed yesterday's decision by the Independent Disciplinary Commission to expel Southampton Football Club from the Sky Bet Championship Play-Offs, and to impose a four-point deduction for the 2026/27 season. Before turning to that appeal, I want to address our supporters, our players, and the wider football community directly and without equivocation.

 

What happened was wrong. The club has admitted breaches of EFL Regulations 3.4 and 127. We are sorry to the other clubs involved, and most of all to the Southampton supporters whose extraordinary loyalty and support this season deserved better from the club.

 

We have provided our full co-operation to the EFL's investigation and disciplinary process. Following the appeal, we will also be writing to the EFL to volunteer our participation in a working group on the practical application and enforcement of Regulation 127 across the Championship. Contrition without change is hollow, and we intend to demonstrate change.

 

On the appeal itself: we accept that there should be a sanction. What we cannot accept is a sanction which bears no proportion to the offence. Whereas Leeds United was fined £200,000 for a similar offence, Southampton has been denied the opportunity to compete in a game worth more than £200 million and one which means so much to our staff, players and supporters.

 

We believe the financial consequence of yesterday's ruling makes it, by a very considerable distance, the largest penalty ever imposed on an English football club. Luton Town's 30-point deduction in 2008/09 — to date the most severe sporting sanction in the English game — was levied against a club already in League Two, with no comparable revenue at stake. Derby County's 21-point deduction in 2021 cost them their Championship status. Everton's eventual six-point deduction in 2023/24 followed losses of £124.5 million, a figure dwarfed by what has been taken from Southampton in a single afternoon. The largest financial penalty ever levied by the Premier League, against Chelsea in March of this year, was £10.75 million, and was accompanied by no sporting sanction whatsoever despite involving £47.5 million in undisclosed payments over seven years.

 

We say this not to minimise what occurred at this club, which we have accepted was wrong. We say it because proportionality is itself a principle of natural justice. The Commission was entitled to impose a sanction. It was not, we will argue, entitled to impose one that is manifestly disproportionate to every previous sanction in the history of the English game.

 

Our appeal will be heard today, and we will provide a further update in due course.

The £200 million is potential revenue. 

The panel deemed we were trying to unfairly influence and outcome against the rules.

The other examples are whataboutery.

Parsons is toast.

 

1 hour ago, Maury Dyer said:

First decent manager / team I n years. Knew it was too good to be true. 

more years in the doldrums now. 

I hear Russ Martin's looking for a job......

fuck ne.....

Sorry, but I think Watford now have him. Proven promotion-getting manager with no cheating involved. 

57 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

I understand that Leicester think that Southampton spied on them at their training ground prior to beating them 4-3 on Feb 10th. They feel that those points represent the reason for their relegation & are demanding that Southampton should be relegated instead of them.

😂🤣😂

By the time Parsons is through, we'll have fessed up to enough to ensure our relegation.

45 minutes ago, trousers said:

"Perverting the course of justice" then....?

And does "The EFL" include the Boro CEO geezer...?

There's definitely a stink in the air....

Yup. Looks as though all sides were using whatever leverage they could get. Fingers crossed Boro have over extended themselves. But, I doubt it will help us.

37 minutes ago, MB said:

Can we have a sweepstake? Y or N on appeal. I actually think we will be reinstated. Call it gut feeling or whatever, but can see another twist and turn yet. 

Dont get me wrong have zero faith in our legal team and had we appointed that Di Marco chap like Gibbocunt did we probably wouldn’t be in this mess. That said the decision is farcical and I think there is hope with a reasonable counter argument 

N

17 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Darren Bent is so dumb, how did he get that gig?

Clinton Morrison can only do so much. 🙂

[Willo of Whiteley]

I think it’ll be after 22:00.

Statements will have to be written.

Tears will have to be wiped etc.

Best outcome for everyone is Hull go up automatically, they deserve it.

It would feel uncomfortable for us to go up, legal proceedings will go on for ages.

[DellBlockH]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Anyone really believe who ever is hearing this out is going to say their colleagues got it drastically wrong 24 hours ago?

not going to happen. At best a few points back, probably as as a suspended sanction 

I think it is very unlikely. The threat of legal action outside the EFL procedure might have a bearing though.

[sockeye]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

It would feel uncomfortable for us to go up

Well I for one would fucking love it

[kwsaint]

Could we loan our entire squad to Hull for one game? That way, we beat them (again), Hull go up and they are no legal issues…

[SNSUN]

I'm off the loo. Hope nothing happens in the next few minutes...

[Saint_clark]

Just now, SNSUN said:

I'm off the loo. Hope nothing happens in the next few minutes...

You're only off the loo for a few minutes? How strong was the curry?

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Anyone really believe who ever is hearing this out is going to say their colleagues got it drastically wrong 24 hours ago?

not going to happen. At best a few points back, probably as as a suspended sanction 

I've been asking this all day... Do we know if today's judge / panel is from the same company as yesterday's panel, or completely different? If the former then, yes, I agree with you 

(FWIW, I don't think there's any chance of us winning the appeal either way)

Edited 55 minutes ago by trousers

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

That’s not how legal defences work though. You pay top whack to get the best possible lawyer who gets paid millions to convince people that black is white and then shut the fuck up and let them try and dig you out of trouble. 

Hence why the first thing they always tell you to do is say ‘no comment’ to everything, however much evidence there might be that you did something. Just shut up and let them handle it. 

Honestly, has no-one else seen 24 hours in police custody? 

I've seen 48 hours and Police Academy, if that helps.

Actually, I might be Parsons successor, with that kind of knowledge. 🙂

[Miltonaggro]

11 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

That’s not how legal defences work though. You pay top whack to get the best possible lawyer who gets paid millions to convince people that black is white and then shut the fuck up and let them try and dig you out of trouble. 

Hence why the first thing they always tell you to do is say ‘no comment’ to everything, however much evidence there might be that you did something. Just shut up and let them handle it. 

Honestly, has no-one else seen 24 hours in police custody? 

Rather base, but true

[Suhari]

1 minute ago, SNSUN said:

I'm off the loo. Hope nothing happens in the next few minutes...

You should be hoping something DOES happen. If not, try a strong curry.

[Miltonaggro]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I've seen 48 hours and Police Academy, if that helps.

Actually, I might be Parsons successor, with that kind of knowledge. 🙂

About time we had that level of gravitas in the Boardroom:

[Harry_SFC]

Interesting that Spors wasn't implicated yesterday. Would that help an appeal? I.e the spying not being ok'd from a director, just the manager? 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

About time we had that level of gravitas in the Boardroom:

I miss that jacket of mine. 🙂

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

Interesting that Spors wasn't implicated yesterday. Would that help an appeal? I.e the spying not being ok'd from a director, just the manager? 

Nope. 

[lambtiss]

We are toast. Appeal, shhmeal

[trousers]

[Saint Scott]

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Saint Scott said:

 

Fuck Off

[SaintsLoyal]

2 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

Hope not as that’s going to send @SaintsLoyal over the edge !!

Full blown traitor to the club, telling players to leave , rewarded with a frontpage in the sun newspaper.

 You can also add on he and his agend shafted us financially.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

 

Not a chance is that true. If by some miracle we won the appeal he wouldn't be anywhere near it.

[ChrisPY]

1 minute ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Full blown traitor to the club, telling players to leave , rewarded with a frontpage in the sun newspaper.

 You can also add on he and his agend shafted us financially.

Do you reckon he’d be alright as an interim?

[sockeye]

An innocent (and remaining in post) Spors would be positive at least. Would give some confidence that we could adequately replace outgoings

[RedArmy]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Not a chance is that true. If by some miracle we won the appeal he wouldn't be anywhere near it.

Should be down to the players to decide in my opinion. 
 

Not that it matters, we aren’t winning this appeal. 

[Football Special]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Who is feeding him this info ? 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Spors knew nothing about it. Despite it being his team, about whom he said "I’ve built a small team with different people around me with different skillsets; analytics, classical scouting, but also people with different skills who see the same thing from different angles.”

 

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, sockeye said:

An innocent (and remaining in post) Spors would be positive at least. Would give some confidence that we could adequately replace outgoings

Isn't it his job to have oversight, though? Seems like, if it isn't, there is a real organisational gap somewhere.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Who is feeding him this info ? 

Probably Boro.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, benjii said:

Isn't it his job to have oversight, though? Seems like, if it isn't, there is a real organisational gap somewhere.

It is but he isn't omnipresent. 

[The Wyvern]

Just now, Football Special said:

Who is feeding him this info ? 

Yeah, why would anyone from Saints leak such a bit of information? 

[SW5 SAINT]

32 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Just redo the playoffs during the world cup in the yanks' stadia. Just scrap some pointless matches like Uzbekistan vs Tunisia and jobs a good'un.

They then certainly would have to bring Wrexham in just to garner the yanks interest….

[sockeye]

Just now, SW5 SAINT said:

They then certainly would have to bring Wrexham in just to garner the yanks interest….

Just call it an exclusive preview of the new 3rd to 8th system and there you go

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

It is but he isn't omnipresent. 

Does he need to be omnipresent to know there's loads of chatter throughout the analysis team about spying? That seems like a cop out.