#Spygate

[benjii]

9 minutes ago, coalman said:

Except any offer or discussion is going to come with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" attached.

This isn't a court case yet.

[Dman]

11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

As others have said it may be worth sending this to the club. Middlesbrough are being totally misleading about where this guy was.

Does it matter though? it would still be a rule breach (much like only using an iphone is). 

I guess it helps our arguement for mitigation. 

[coalman]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

This isn't a court case yet.

But it could be. And knowing that you act appropriately 

[SWLondon Saint]

8 minutes ago, coalman said:

We've only seen one photo released. We don't know what other CCTV (or other footage) they have. Have to imagine that's not the sum total of the media Boro have for this.

Possibly, but if you're trying to fight it in the media like they are, you're always going to go with your best, most incriminating photo. And as numerous non-biased people have said about that photo, 'Is that it?'

[Leighsterrr]

9 minutes ago, coalman said:

We've only seen one photo released. We don't know what other CCTV (or other footage) they have. Have to imagine that's not the sum total of the media Boro have for this.

If he was caught on CCTV from Will's right (as the Sky reporter mentioned) then who took that photo of him that's in The Mail as that's pretty much a photo of him straight on...or am I missing something/being dumb?

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

Call me a pessimist but the surge in media pressure calling us “cheats” could have a massive impact.

The thing I find strange about all of this is that if that was a PL fixture, its not against the rules and we therefore aren't considered 'cheats'. 

That surely has to have some impact in the mitigation. 

[Toadhall Saint]

50 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

I agree with you their case is pathetic and certainly doesn't warrant us being expelled from the playoffs.
But they have created a media storm and the EFL may decide to cave in to the "popular" opinion.

It’s not the EFL it’s an independent board which is allegedly chaired by a KC so will deal with facts not hyperbole and conjecture. Looking at the picture supplied of the spot where the analyst was allegedly taking a video it’s debatable if the Boro 1st team trading pitch could actually be “observed”.

[Toadhall Saint]

23 minutes ago, coalman said:

We've only seen one photo released. We don't know what other CCTV (or other footage) they have. Have to imagine that's not the sum total of the media Boro have for this.

They’ll probably drip feed some in the next day or two.

[John Boy Saint]

As an aside - I saw my cousin from up north last night, he was heavily involved in trying to keep Bury FC going in their many attempts to stay in existence and ultimately the league. He had left the process before the curtain finally came down on them through exhaustion and nonsense from others hindering rather than helping.

He asked if we were going to the match, and I chipped in “what if we aren’t chucked out”, adding that if we were, surely that would be a nightmare on so many levels for the EFL. He said trust me they wouldn’t care, it’s their bat and their ball, and they will do what they want, I have enough experience of dealing with them to know that. 
Him saying that reminded me of when we were heading to the edge of the abyss and Lowe thought we had pulled off some clever chicanery within the rules and the knife man Malwhinney came on the TV smugly smiling detailing new rules and our 10 point deduction etc

[Channons orse]

Not sure how true this is but I’ve just read an up to date report from Nottingham Universally congratulating Will Salt in completing his year placement at SFC and that for the last two months has been working for Aston Villa.

[Weston Super Saint]

21 minutes ago, coalman said:

Except any offer or discussion is going to come with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" attached.

Just so I've got the timeline straight...

2019, Leeds get caught spying.  They admit they've done it for loads of games.  They get fined £200k.

The EFL then put rules in place to say you can spy, but not within 72 hours of a match!  Having put the rules in place, they decide they don't need to add a punishment for breaking the rules (probably because they know everyone is at it and if they said you would be expelled from the league then they may have no one left at the end of the season!).

On Friday last week, we were charged with breaking the rules by the EFL.  We have 14 days to respond to said charge.

During that 14 day period, despite the fact that THEY have charged us with breaking the rules, they are going to make us a 'without prejudice' offer to settle rule breaking AND include a term that is favourable to us!

And I thought Boro had some weird fans!

What will happen is :

We will respond at the end of the 14 day period, which I believe will be 17:00 / 16:59 on Friday 22nd May.  Not only is that the day before the Play off final, it's also the end of the working day before the bank holiday weekend.  Is an independent panel going to be set up and hear our response, deliberate and deliver their verdict before kick off the next day?  Not a fucking chance!  The match will go ahead and the panel will review the evidence sometime in June - probably near the end of June given summer holidays etc.  We will then get a slap on the wrists and a fine.  Any fine bigger than £200k + inflation since 2019 is likely to see us lodge an appeal.

That's it, that's the storm in the teacup.

Boro will whinge and bitch about it for a couple of weeks and the world will move on.

[Weston Super Saint]

18 minutes ago, Leighsterrr said:

If he was caught on CCTV from Will's right (as the Sky reporter mentioned) then who took that photo of him that's in The Mail as that's pretty much a photo of him straight on...or am I missing something/being dumb?

That's the thing with spygate, no one knows whose spies are watching their own spies.  It's an intriguing web of lies and spies.

[Kingsland Red]

I assume this has been covered:

https://www.derby.ac.uk/undergraduate/sport-exercise-science-courses/wills-placement-year-is-key-to-success/

[Toadhall Saint]

The reason for the 14 day period is so we can respond and for the EFL to get the independent panel together which, might not be that easy.

[dsrdorset]

5 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

I haven't been on SaintsWeb for ages, but felt it might be time for me to weigh in due to my particular insight into this story...

You see, as my username will tell you, I live in the village of Hurworth-on-Tees... which is significant because the Rockliffe training ground is not in Middlesbrough, but is actually in Hurworth-on-Tees. I live right opposite the Rockliffe grounds including Hotel, Golf Club, training ground, cricket club and woods.

I can tell you that there is a lot of rubbish being shared about the story and some of the pictures. Here is my take:

1. The Middlesbrough FC First Team training pitch is on the opposite side of the MFC training centre from the Rockliffe Hotel and golf club.

2. The picture of a boy stood behind a tree filming does not, as far as I can see, tally with anywhere around the first team training pitch.

3. The other picture of a tree beside a gate with training pitches in the background DOES appear to be taken from the gate near to the Rockliffe Golf clubhouse.

4. However, the pitches in the background of that picture are supplementary training pitches and, as stated above, that is not the First Team Training pitch. Those pitches are mainly used by the academy sides and women's sides for their training. However, it is possible that some training could have taken place there, but I'm not convinced any spy would have been able to see significant tactical input in that area.

5. If I were to spy on MFC's first team training, instead of trying to get to the first team training pitch from the golf course, I would walk along the public footpath around the perimeter of Rockliffe and slip through the woods where it is possible to spy on the training pitch. From there you could also stay out of sight of CCTV cameras.

6. I have downloaded an aerial view of Rockliffe using Google and based on my local knowledge I have edited the image to show:

• Where a lot of the rumours about the spying seem to be suggesting the spy was caught
• Where the first team training pitch is
• Where the other training and exhibition pitches are
• The footpaths around the training ground.
• The location of the clubhouse and training centre.
• The rough area where I think any decent spy would have positioned themselves to film training.

Here is the image:

Finally, here is a photo that I took on Friday of the gate near the golf clubhouse where the reports seem to be suggesting the spying took place (with the tree shown!):

You may also be interested with the following video that I took from the lawn of Rockliffe Hotel, which shoots over the top of the grassy roof of the clubhouse and scans around to the training centre: 

 

Fantastic work, well done. Thanks for sharing. I really hope the Saints lawyers have this info!! Boro are embarrassing themselves with their hysteria, and so have the sports media (TalkSport, Sky Sports, BBC) absolute disgrace. And don't even get me started on that prick Corden.....

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Kingsland Red said:

I assume this has been covered:

https://www.derby.ac.uk/undergraduate/sport-exercise-science-courses/wills-placement-year-is-key-to-success/

Only about a dozen times... 😁 

[Channons orse]

Just now, Kingsland Red said:

I assume this has been covered:

https://www.derby.ac.uk/undergraduate/sport-exercise-science-courses/wills-placement-year-is-key-to-success/

Yes that’s the bit I read but thought it was Nottingham, now if this is true then what’s it got to do with SFC?

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Channons orse said:

Yes that’s the bit I read but thought it was Nottingham, now if this is true then what’s it got to do with SFC?

It's from 2024 or possibly 2025 apparenlty, so is out of date.  Will will have moved on since then, not stuck in limbo.

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Channons orse said:

Yes that’s the bit I read but thought it was Nottingham, now if this is true then what’s it got to do with SFC?

It turns out that University of Derby article was published over a year ago (January 2025) and so it would appear that he returned to Saints after his stint at Villa (given he appears in Tonda's February 2026 manager of the month group photo). That said, it doesn't rule out him leave Saints again between March 2026 and 'now' of course (he didn't appear in the March and April MotM group photos... )

Edited 14 hours ago by trousers

[Saint NL]

Excited to see where this story goes today.

My prediction: someone finds Will Salt and we hear from him.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Excited to see where this story goes today.

My prediction: someone finds Will Salt and we hear from him.

 

Hiding in a cave in Tora Bora?

[Kingsland Red]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Only about a dozen times... 😁 

Apologies, I jump in and out of here these days. (Loved Saintsweb in the pre Liebherr days!!)

[Sarnia Cherie]

9 minutes ago, dsrdorset said:

Fantastic work, well done. Thanks for sharing. I really hope the Saints lawyers have this info!! Boro are embarrassing themselves with their hysteria, and so have the sports media (TalkSport, Sky Sports, BBC) absolute disgrace. And don't even get me started on that prick Corden.....

Would that be the same prick Corden who was barred from restaurants for his 'obnoxious behaviour' towards the waitresses? Perhaps he would like to dip into his money and get a security fence built around the training pitches. Odious git.

[Saint NL]

Just now, Sarnia Cherie said:

Would that be the same prick Corden who was barred from restaurants for his 'obnoxious behaviour' towards the waitresses? Perhaps he would like to dip into his money and get a security fence built around the training pitches. Odious git.

He's a west ham fan isn't he?

I'm guessing his big solution to this mess is to cancel the playoffs and only have two relegated and two promoted to the PL this year 

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

He's a west ham fan isn't he?

I'm guessing his big solution to this mess is to cancel the playoffs and only have two relegated and two promoted to the PL this year 

He has a World Cup football show with Rio Ferdinand coming up. He's trying to get attention so people think he has something to say about football.

[skintsaint]

4 minutes ago, coalman said:

He has a World Cup football show with Rio Ferdinand coming up.

Something to avoid, thanks for the heads up.

[saintant]

5 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

I haven't been on SaintsWeb for ages, but felt it might be time for me to weigh in due to my particular insight into this story...

You see, as my username will tell you, I live in the village of Hurworth-on-Tees... which is significant because the Rockliffe training ground is not in Middlesbrough, but is actually in Hurworth-on-Tees. I live right opposite the Rockliffe grounds including Hotel, Golf Club, training ground, cricket club and woods.

I can tell you that there is a lot of rubbish being shared about the story and some of the pictures. Here is my take:

1. The Middlesbrough FC First Team training pitch is on the opposite side of the MFC training centre from the Rockliffe Hotel and golf club.

2. The picture of a boy stood behind a tree filming does not, as far as I can see, tally with anywhere around the first team training pitch.

3. The other picture of a tree beside a gate with training pitches in the background DOES appear to be taken from the gate near to the Rockliffe Golf clubhouse.

4. However, the pitches in the background of that picture are supplementary training pitches and, as stated above, that is not the First Team Training pitch. Those pitches are mainly used by the academy sides and women's sides for their training. However, it is possible that some training could have taken place there, but I'm not convinced any spy would have been able to see significant tactical input in that area.

5. If I were to spy on MFC's first team training, instead of trying to get to the first team training pitch from the golf course, I would walk along the public footpath around the perimeter of Rockliffe and slip through the woods where it is possible to spy on the training pitch. From there you could also stay out of sight of CCTV cameras.

6. I have downloaded an aerial view of Rockliffe using Google and based on my local knowledge I have edited the image to show:

• Where a lot of the rumours about the spying seem to be suggesting the spy was caught
• Where the first team training pitch is
• Where the other training and exhibition pitches are
• The footpaths around the training ground.
• The location of the clubhouse and training centre.
• The rough area where I think any decent spy would have positioned themselves to film training.

Here is the image:

Finally, here is a photo that I took on Friday of the gate near the golf clubhouse where the reports seem to be suggesting the spying took place (with the tree shown!):

You may also be interested with the following video that I took from the lawn of Rockliffe Hotel, which shoots over the top of the grassy roof of the clubhouse and scans around to the training centre: 

 

Thanks for all this detailed information. My only question is, did you get caught?

[skintsaint]

5 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

I haven't been on SaintsWeb for ages, but felt it might be time for me to weigh in due to my particular insight into this story...

You see, as my username will tell you, I live in the village of Hurworth-on-Tees... which is significant because the Rockliffe training ground is not in Middlesbrough, but is actually in Hurworth-on-Tees. I live right opposite the Rockliffe grounds including Hotel, Golf Club, training ground, cricket club and woods.

I can tell you that there is a lot of rubbish being shared about the story and some of the pictures. Here is my take:

1. The Middlesbrough FC First Team training pitch is on the opposite side of the MFC training centre from the Rockliffe Hotel and golf club.

2. The picture of a boy stood behind a tree filming does not, as far as I can see, tally with anywhere around the first team training pitch.

3. The other picture of a tree beside a gate with training pitches in the background DOES appear to be taken from the gate near to the Rockliffe Golf clubhouse.

4. However, the pitches in the background of that picture are supplementary training pitches and, as stated above, that is not the First Team Training pitch. Those pitches are mainly used by the academy sides and women's sides for their training. However, it is possible that some training could have taken place there, but I'm not convinced any spy would have been able to see significant tactical input in that area.

5. If I were to spy on MFC's first team training, instead of trying to get to the first team training pitch from the golf course, I would walk along the public footpath around the perimeter of Rockliffe and slip through the woods where it is possible to spy on the training pitch. From there you could also stay out of sight of CCTV cameras.

6. I have downloaded an aerial view of Rockliffe using Google and based on my local knowledge I have edited the image to show:

• Where a lot of the rumours about the spying seem to be suggesting the spy was caught
• Where the first team training pitch is
• Where the other training and exhibition pitches are
• The footpaths around the training ground.
• The location of the clubhouse and training centre.
• The rough area where I think any decent spy would have positioned themselves to film training.

Here is the image:

Finally, here is a photo that I took on Friday of the gate near the golf clubhouse where the reports seem to be suggesting the spying took place (with the tree shown!):

You may also be interested with the following video that I took from the lawn of Rockliffe Hotel, which shoots over the top of the grassy roof of the clubhouse and scans around to the training centre: 

 

Good update, thanks Mr Salt.

[scumbag]

All set for another day of faux outrage and vomit inducing moralism from whoever has been lined up.  This is fast becoming the footballing equivalent of the reaction to the death of princess Diana.  The lows keep getting lower.

[Challenger]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

In the unlikley event of them replacing us in the PO final, please round up as many people as possible and spend the week 'spying on thier training sessions'

Extra points if you can get some footage and leak it online (or send to Hull). 

As a member of the public filming in a public place, there is nothing they can do about it 😃

Just tell Hull that Boro will be blowing out of their asses by 60 mins ,like a pensioner who's been on the Capstan Full Strengths all his life.

[Whitey Grandad]

I saw this and similar comments elsewhere:

How are Middlesbrough supposed to have obtained his name from a credit card transaction? The owner's name is never disclosed. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

As others have said it may be worth sending this to the club. Middlesbrough are being totally misleading about where this guy was.

Playing devil's advocate this is a single still photo and maybe Boro have evidence the guy was moving about and filming from various spots.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

We've only seen one photo released. We don't know what other CCTV (or other footage) they have. Have to imagine that's not the sum total of the media Boro have for this.

Yes, but the one photo released that supposedly shows him recording the first team isn't even at the first team training pitch.

[coalman]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Yes, but the one photo released that supposedly shows him recording the first team isn't even at the first team training pitch.

It's in the Mail. Their ability to accurately caption photos is legendarily poor for a reason.

If I were Boro I would release the least incriminating photo possible in the hopes of getting Southampton to overplay their hand.

At the moment they are drip feeding more information to the press daily (and also a fair bit of misinformation I imagine) plus allowing the Internet to do what it does and make up a bunch of shit. Then relying on the press to amplify that to keep the story in the spotlight.

[DT]

Saw something about ticket details being taken down from our site. Gulp.

Suspect this will blow over as footie journo resources are taken up with the Prem championship games this weekend and the VAR Scottish championship saga. Hope so. Some of the morons on Talksport yesterday were just a joke, outdoing themselves with their indignation and suggesting that the manager was 'omniscient' and therefore should go too. All while everyone says absolutely nothing about Man City. And to add to that conspiracy story, I was watching City yesterday. Palace had a goal ruled out for offside early on. No lines, no replays, pundits said nothing. Most odd. Think there is a battalion of lawyers in charge of football these days. Hope we have some lined up for this joke of a SpyGate, as am worried about the EFL just bowing to the wailers.

[Midfield_General]

28 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Would that be the same prick Corden who was barred from restaurants for his 'obnoxious behaviour' towards the waitresses? Perhaps he would like to dip into his money and get a security fence built around the training pitches. Odious git.

Can't remember where I read it now, but someone said that Corden weighing in has the vibe of that person in the office who never watches football and knows nothing about it but who suddenly develops an extremely strong opinion on one particular issue. 

For the record, the obese waitress-abuser's proposal was that if Saints go up, we should have to give 50% of next season's TV money to Middlesbrough. Or to put it another way, a fine equating to approximately £75,000,000. 

[Zorba]

40 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Hiding in a cave in Tora Bora?

Beats hiding in a bush in Middlesboro

[Draino76]

32 minutes ago, coalman said:

He has a World Cup football show with Rio Ferdinand coming up. He's trying to get attention so people think he has something to say about football.

I would rather watch some women talk about football. 

[EssEffCee]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I saw this and similar comments elsewhere:

How are Middlesbrough supposed to have obtained his name from a credit card transaction? The owner's name is never disclosed. 

They haven't. What the Mail means is they've got CCTV of him purchasing something using a card.

[Sold To The Man @ The Bar]

From the Hotel -

HOW WE KEEP YOUR INFORMATION SAFE All personal information we hold is stored on our secured servers in the UK and EU. Access to our information is strictly controlled. We may disclose your details to police, regulatory bodies or legal and professional advisors if so required.

DISCLOSURE OF YOUR INFORMATION We do not share your information with any third party without your agreement unless we are under a duty to disclose or share your personal data in order to comply with any legal or regulatory obligation, or in order to enforce or apply our terms of use or terms and conditions of purchase and other agreements; or to protect the rights, property, or safety of Rockliffe Hall, our staff, customers, or others. This includes exchanging information with other companies and organisations for the purposes of fraud protection and credit risk reduction.

[skintsaint]

5 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

For the record, the obese waitress-abuser's proposal was that if Saints go up, we should have to give 50% of next season's TV money to Middlesbrough. Or to put it another way, a fine equating to approximately £75,000,000. 

Pretty sure they couldn't prove for a fact they would be promoted if they had beat us, so that won't happen.

[disconnect]

43 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Would that be the same prick Corden who was barred from restaurants for his 'obnoxious behaviour' towards the waitresses? Perhaps he would like to dip into his money and get a security fence built around the training pitches. Odious git.

You can probably tell you're alright when West "free tourist trap stadium" Ham start spouting off about getting other teams massive financial penalties. They've had their really dodgy stadium deal giving them a massive commercial advantage over loads of clubs for a decade plus!

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

They haven't. What the Mail means is they've got CCTV of him purchasing something using a card.

which in itself is dodgy ground.

However, I would be asking - how did they get his name in the first place? There is no way anyone knew his name just from a photo or CCT. As far as I'm aware he wasn't on the clubs offical site. 

I'd be amazed if they (middlesbrough) haven't used his card details to positively identify him. 

[Graffito]

9 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Can't remember where I read it now, but someone said that Corden weighing in has the vibe of that person in the office who never watches football and knows nothing about it but who suddenly develops an extremely strong opinion on one particular issue. 

For the record, the obese waitress-abuser's proposal was that if Saints go up, we should have to give 50% of next season's TV money to Middlesbrough. Or to put it another way, a fine equating to approximately £75,000,000. 

The boy’s a fool.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, Graffito said:

The boy’s a fool.

You mis-spelled tool.

It's an easy typo to make though cos F is just below T on a standard keyboard.

[EssEffCee]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

which in itself is dodgy ground.

However, I would be asking - how did they get his name in the first place? There is no way anyone knew his name just from a photo or CCT. As far as I'm aware he wasn't on the clubs offical site. 

I'd be amazed if they (middlesbrough) haven't used his card details to positively identify him. 

He's pictured with Tonda and is (was?) on LinkedIn. Wouldn't have been difficult at all to identify him.

They won't have used the card, the merchant doesn't get that information.

Edited 13 hours ago by EssEffCee

[Secret Site Agent]

Is Will Salt still on the books?

Did he do this off his own back to endere hom with Saints in the hope of a full time job?

And if so, does the little snaek have enough honour to fall on his sword over this, take the blame, and exhonorate Southampton at least partially?

[Saint Pete]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

It is because Saints jumped the gun and it should have been announced at the same time Hull City publish it.

Although on Tuesday (before our match), Hull put article on their OS saying full ticket details would be released on Wednesday following conclusion of our semi final. So, it seems there has been a delay to both clubs putting the info out without a clear explanation. Seems odd, guess we will know soon enough if anything is going on. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, EssEffCee said:

He's pictured with Tonda and is (was?) on LinkedIn. Wouldn't have been difficult at all to identify him.

They won't have used the card, the merchant doesn't get that information.

Again, no identifiable information from that other than "oh, that looks like the same guy". 

Its possible that they found him onlinked in i suppose. 

[benjii]

45 minutes ago, saintant said:

Thanks for all this detailed information. My only question is, did you get caught?

I really hope he was wearing Saints gear on his walkabout.