World Cup 2026

[SWLondon Saint]

At half time against Croatia, Tuchel got credit for saying stop playing scared, if we go out, we go out playing our way. That was what he needed to say and back up with positive subs today.

Playing with everyone on our 18 yard line is never and should never be our way even if we're down to 10.

[egg]

1 minute ago, OneMrsWallace said:

Not surprisingly he's coming out with utter BS to justify his awful substitutions. Why he just didn't let us carry on as we were is beyond me. Argentina looked a beaten side after we scored and bravery might have got us a second. Managers constantly talk about wanting their players to be brave when it counts, then Tuchel pulls the rug from under them in a desperate attempt to hold on. Somec are saying he should go. Might be a bit harsh with a home Euros to look forward to but fuck me he better show he's learned from this debacle if he stays.  

Yep. If he wanted to liven it up, Rashford on for Gordon was the change for me. Keep their right back deep, and give us a big lad as an outlet. 

I'd sack TT for that. We had the best chance of a world cup final as we'll ever get. Game management like that is unforgivable.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, Badger said:

 

 

There’s a recording in the song ‘footballs coming home’ of Jimmy Hill saying “and we’ll go on getting bad results “. I think he said this after another poor exit from a tournament and was criticised and ridiculed for it at the time, but he’s been proven right.

 

In the late 1970’s the French reorganised their game, the Germans have done something similar in the past, possibly more than once. How many trophies have they won since ? 
 

We reorganised didn’t we with the centre somewhere ? but have won fuck all. 
 

In that time we’ve gone through some world class players in the80’s, “the golden generation”, two Euro finals and a WC SF with Southgate, and tonight. But just don’t have the nous ,organisation, or nerve to see it through. 
 

 

It’s the same with the cricket team, should have won the last two Ashes series but English teams don’t manage phases in matches and adapt when the opposition change tack.

Obvious Argentina were going to repeat what they did v Egypt, and overload. The subs should have been Watkins and Saka to concern them on the counter attack and stretch the game out using pace but 3 defenders come on instead because they’re trying to fix what they see straight under their nose.

[influx]

Konsa was dogshit when he came on.  Knew we were fucked when he replaced Gordon.  

Edited 1 hour ago by influx

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. If he wanted to liven it up, Rashford on for Gordon was the change for me. Keep their right back deep, and give us a big lad as an outlet. 

I'd sack TT for that. We had the best chance of a world cup final as we'll ever get. Game management like that is unforgivable.

 

Also their CBs were both on yellows. Spineless fucker

[Saint NL]

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

 

 

There’s a recording in the song ‘footballs coming home’ of Jimmy Hill saying “and we’ll go on getting bad results “. I think he said this after another poor exit from a tournament and was criticised and ridiculed for it at the time, but he’s been proven right.

 

In the late 1970’s the French reorganised their game, the Germans have done something similar in the past, possibly more than once. How many trophies have they won since ? 
 

We reorganised didn’t we with the centre somewhere ? but have won fuck all. 
 

In that time we’ve gone through some world class players in the80’s, “the golden generation”, two Euro finals and a WC SF with Southgate, and tonight. But just don’t have the nous ,organisation, or nerve to see it through. 
 

 

I think there's a world of difference between the England of 1992 and 1994 that Jimmy Hill was talking about and the England of the last decade that have been in two finals and four semi finals.

There has been significant improvement across the piece.

If your assessment is "if we don’t win it, it's fuck all" then we might as well fuck off back to the Graham Taylor/Keegan/Hodgson/McClaren eras.

If everything just reduced to failure we might as well go out in the Group stage and fuck off home or maybe not qualify at all. If people are going to treat going out in finals and semis like that then why bother.

[gio1saints]

Agree with all the sentiments. Agent Tuchel lost us that match. When we took the game to Argentina we were a match for them and deserved our lead. 

But I’ve never seen such a disastrous management decision by an Eng Manager as what that cxxx Tuchel got up to with those subs and formation changes. England so clueless in defence those last twenty minutes. 
 

Ultimately he blinked and Argentina did not. An English Manager would have told team to fight to the death and keep going forward not concede all that space and possession. 
 

We could have beaten these. And effibg Spain too if Manager had a spine and some balls. This is on him not the players. SACK HIM 

[Osvaldorama]

Not read through yet; so I assume I’m echoing many thoughts:

 

Manager absolutely killed us tonight. 
 

Players were great. Manager let us down very badly. 

[saintant]

England clearly had no structured plan on how to manage the game after going one nil up. As a collective the team automatically retreated and all took up defensive duties to try to preserve the one goal lead. It's such a senseless thing to do because we just handed the whole initiative to Argentina and they didn't have to worry about defending themselves. It is baffling how so-called elite footballers can believe this is a tactic that will work. Spain didn't do it against France, they just carried on doing what had given them the lead and ended up scoring another. 

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Depends what you rate as good.

Compared to our performance from the 70s-2010s our recent tournament performances have been good, fallen short at the every end but a lot better 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Has Craig Hope slagged off Jude Bellingham yet?

Or blamed Saka for the goal despite not playing?

Daily Mail headline will be interesting tomorrow.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Argentina players showing political flags on the field. We need Gibbo to get at FIFA and get Argentina expelled and England reinstated. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Behind Enemy Lines

[Badger]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

If everything just reduced to failure we might as well go out in the Group stage and fuck off home or maybe not qualify at all. If people are going to treat going out in finals and semis like that then why bother.

Fair points, but to go out in a whimper and without a fight is the galling thing.

Losing a SF in 1990 or 96 where the team have gone toe to toe with quality opposition is different to the performance tonight in which we just retreated into our shell after scoring. 

 

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Ultimately he blinked and Argentina did not. An English Manager would have told team to fight to the death and keep going forward not concede all that space and possession. 

Gareth Southgate was an English manager. Basically Tuchel copied the Southgate playbook.

Utterly baffling and disastrous. And all of us could see it.

[Galway saint]

17 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I agree. They knew they weren't capable of hanging on, and were just hoping that every effort would miss.

Kane was a waste in the part I saw. Nothing useful came to him. He looked knacked, and no one else was capable of running off him. He'd have no options, even if it had got to him.

That shows how broken the game plan was by then. Couldn't strengthen the midfield, and couldn't get it out wide. So it all fell in on itself.

I'd caught the line up before I left. I noted James and Rice at the very edge of their fitness; Stones without a real season; Spence in off the back of a decent finish in the last game,  but weak in others and there because of Tuchel not wanting extra full backs; Rogers out of position because Saka isn't fit, and Madueke hasn't clicked.

As disjointed as it's been, that was likely to be even more so. Dropping back and back, just showed up those frailties more and more.

Rice not being fit was a big blow. Anderson doesn't do the same job, and has been passive. O'Reilly is another "versatile player" pitching in, but not the best in that role. A bit like TAA was, when he got put in there. Not having game changing Saka was probably the other big miss. He can change things regardless of how the others are doing.

Disappointing to go out in a muddled defensive whimper. But credit to Argentina for their relentless approach to turning games around. England were just the latest to not be able to cope with it.

Thought Anderson was very good 

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Thought Anderson was very good 

Has been all tournament. Him and Rice are a good midfield, shame Rice been shitting himself since the Mexico game and we suffered for it.

[SNSUN]

What can I say. Almost scored too early and went too defensive too early. 

Said it before... attack is the best form of defence.  We had that game tonight, we tried to protect a 1 nil win and it did not work. 

3rd place play off...

Give over. 

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

Fair points, but to go out in a whimper and without a fight is the galling thing.

Losing a SF in 1990 or 96 where the team have gone toe to toe with quality opposition is different to the performance tonight in which we just retreated into our shell after scoring. 

 

Venables won two entire games at Euro 96, one was against Scotland.

And then did not make one single substitution in 120 minutes vs Germany and allowed a situation where Ince and others bottled penalty taking so Southgate was forced to. Plenty of game management issues there as well. Great summer but Terry fucked up too.

 

I am gutted that the whole fucking point of Tuchel, the whole point was he had the nous to win tournaments. Absolutely pathetic from him today.

[SNSUN]

4 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Thought Anderson was very good 

I thought against Norway he was exceptional bearing in mind we lost Rice at half time. 

My biggest worry is who will be our striker in 4 years cos it won't be Kane. 

[Osvaldorama]

5 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Thought Anderson was very good 

I honestly think all our players were. I can’t look at one player that I thought played badly. We were better than them. 
 

And Tuchel killed us. What was he thinking. Fucking absurd 

[John B]

Just now, saintant said:

England clearly had no structured plan on how to manage the game after going one nil up. As a collective the team automatically retreated and all took up defensive duties to try to preserve the one goal lead. It's such a senseless thing to do because we just handed the whole initiative to Argentina and they didn't have to worry about defending themselves. It is baffling how so-called elite footballers can believe this is a tactic that will work. Spain didn't do it against France, they just carried on doing what had given them the lead and ended up scoring another. 

I think that is Tuchels point their collective mindset became passive which was impossible to change it was not the managers  decision to stop attacking according to Harry Kane 

In most of the games we were hardly world beaters so it was unsurprising that we lost especially has we no world class creative players 

[Teamsaint1]

29 minutes ago, Suhari said:

The first two unchallenged crosses from the right, in particular, should've been a wake up call.

How there was no adjustment after that is shocking.

Tuchel must have noted Saints getting away with the same thing v WBA last season and decided it was the way to go……the problem being that Saints had a  3 goal lead …..

Edited 1 hour ago by Teamsaint1

[John B]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Compared to our performance from the 70s-2010s our recent tournament performances have been good, fallen short at the every end but a lot better 

I agree and we have very few world class players who play regularly in the PL and are not carrying an injury 

[austsaint]

6 minutes ago, John B said:

I think that is Tuchels point their collective mindset became passive which was impossible to change it was not the managers  decision to stop attacking according to Harry Kane 

In most of the games we were hardly world beaters so it was unsurprising that we lost especially has we no world class creative players 

Yet Tuchel's reaction to the passive collective mindset was to consolidate it with defensive substitutions.    Tuchel was culpable and trashed his reputation tonight.

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, John B said:

I think that is Tuchels point their collective mindset became passive which was impossible to change it was not the managers  decision to stop attacking according to Harry Kane 

In most of the games we were hardly world beaters so it was unsurprising that we lost especially has we no world class creative players 

Nah, nonsense. Tuchel caused it with his negative subs. 
 

Could have brought on Rashford and saka  on the wings. Could have brought on Mainoo for legs in the middle. 
 

Loterally anything than what he did. Cowardly. Embarrassing. Killed us. 
 

Has to go. 

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I honestly think all our players were. I can’t look at one player that I thought played badly. We were better than them. 
 

And Tuchel killed us. What was he thinking. Fucking absurd 

We must have been watching a different game. Argentina have shown time and again that they are a machine. They clearly had a lot more in their locker than we did and were the better team on the night. Yes, the subs and the tactics didn’t help, but we couldn’t match them when they stepped up a gear, and that was clear before we scored.

[OneMrsWallace]

Tuchel kind of throwing the players under the bus. Suggesting we were already too passive and conceding chances after we scored, so he was forced to make defensive substitutions. Utter BS. They were bound to create more chances as had been forced to get a goal back. But that would leave holes and space to counter in to. Truth is, he blinked first and it cost us big time. 

[HarvSFC]

12% possession and he just kept throwing on defenders until they scored the winner. Then he brought on Rashford and Toney deep into stoppage time.

[Baird of the land]

Someone needs to arrange for tuchel to get an iron cross. That was a sublime effort of self sabotage from his tactical moves. If at first you don't succeed make a second negative double tactical move to ensure you lose.

Edited 49 minutes ago by Baird of the land

[CanadaSaint]

Tuechel got done like a kipper by Scaloni tonight, and then gave him a helping hand.

Our best chance was keeping full width, moving the ball quickly, getting an early ball into the area, and driving at the six yard box. It was working, and that's where the goal came from. But it seems that Tuechel's plan was to get ahead and hang on - for 60 minutes, if necessary, against that lot FFS.

Scaloni had a two-half plan - keep England contained and then strengthen, which he did by pushing two men onto our back four and bringing on de Paul; I couldn't believe de Paul didn't start and knew we were in trouble when he came on.

Taking Gordon off was "game over" madness - especially after the part he played when, one man short, we held off the Mexicans. Tuechel took off a wide man with pace and a willingness to track back, leaving us with no effective out ball. Gutless madness.

[warsash saint]

I thought I had seen the worse use of subs ever by Will Still at Blackburn last season ... until tonight!!!

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

I thought I had seen the worse use of subs ever by Will Still at Blackburn last season ... until tonight!!!

Yep. Pretty much sums it up. 
 

Been a big fan of football for over 30 years and I don’t remember worse management. 

[John B]

9 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Nah, nonsense. Tuchel caused it with his negative subs. 
 

Could have brought on Rashford and saka  on the wings. Could have brought on Mainoo for legs in the middle. 
 

Loterally anything than what he did. Cowardly. Embarrassing. Killed us. 
 

Has to go. 

Funny how we feel differently

I think the team panicked after going 1 0 up and stopped attacking and being aggressive and were not dealing with crosses so he put Konsa on,

It got worse so he put other defenders on hoping that we could survive

I think he was as surprised as us at the surrender as the plan was to attack not defend after the mid session break

We had 11 percent of the ball after we scored

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, John B said:

Funny how we feel differently

I think the team panicked after going 1 0 up and stopped attacking and being aggressive and were not dealing with crosses so he put Konsa on,

It got worse so he put other defenders on hoping that we could survive

I think he was as surprised as us at the surrender as the plan was to attack not defend after the mid session break

We had 11 percent of the ball after we scored

Players didn’t panic. 
 

We had no out ball. No midfield. 
 

Suicidal management 

[Micky]

O'Hara and Cundy not impressed...!

 

[James]

4 minutes ago, John B said:

Funny how we feel differently

I think the team panicked after going 1 0 up and stopped attacking and being aggressive and were not dealing with crosses so he put Konsa on,

It got worse so he put other defenders on hoping that we could survive

I think he was as surprised as us at the surrender as the plan was to attack not defend after the mid session break

We had 11 percent of the ball after we scored

It’s hard to attack when the entire team is made up of defenders. Tactics absolutely killed us, as soon as they scored we were totally done for. 

[Turkish]

46 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I think there's a world of difference between the England of 1992 and 1994 that Jimmy Hill was talking about and the England of the last decade that have been in two finals and four semi finals.

There has been significant improvement across the piece.

If your assessment is "if we don’t win it, it's fuck all" then we might as well fuck off back to the Graham Taylor/Keegan/Hodgson/McClaren eras.

If everything just reduced to failure we might as well go out in the Group stage and fuck off home or maybe not qualify at all. If people are going to treat going out in finals and semis like that then why bother.

Yep think back 88 euros lost every game, 92 euros went out at group stages didn’t win a game, 94 World Cup didn’t qualify. 2002-2012s “golden generation” never got past the quarter finals yet people are bleating on now like we have some divine right to win every tournament we enter anything less than that is abject failure and “not being very good at football” 

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, James said:

It’s hard to attack when the entire team is made up of defenders. Tactics absolutely killed us, as soon as they scored we were totally done for. 

Yeah just bizarre, 2 cb and a lb for a attacking rb, cm and a goalscoring lw.

[S-Clarke]

Tuchel was brought in to get this team over the line in big moments, in the big games against the big sides. And he spectacularly failed in ways that were actually worse than Southgate.

I know he has claimed he didn't want us to stop attacking, however the message being sent when you put on Konsa to replace Gordon is enough to change the momentum. It was a negative change, switching to 5 at the back. We were already struggling to get out and we just gave them the game at that point.

The additional subs thereafter, O'Riley in CM and Burn in as yet another CB were an absolute panicked mess. We couldn't get out, we needed legs, Saka, Rashford - but we got Burn and O'Riley. 

When you look at that Argentina team, Messi aside, they aren't a France. We didn't need to surrender as we did, and that's exactly what we did. It was the same against Spain when we equalised, it was the same against Croatia in 2018, it was the same against Italy in 2020. Big games, big moments, take your chance and then just stop playing. It's a mentality thing, but the coaching staff have to help with that - and bringing on Dan Burn and Konsa doesn't help with changing that mentality, as that screams ''protect what you have, don't go forward''.

The Mexico game will be one of my all time favourite world cup memories I think, but for a tournament as a whole we have been pretty poor I have to say. The Tuchel experiment has failed in my eyes.

Edited 24 minutes ago by S-Clarke

[James]

Just now, Baird of the land said:

Yeah just bizarre, 2 cb and a lb for an attacking rb, cm and a goalscoring lw.

Also, if you are going to bring on Konsa, why on earth would you take off Gordon, the one player whose pace was causing them issues. The substitutions were effectively self sabotage.

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Turkish said:

Yep think back 88 euros lost every game, 92 euros went out at group stages didn’t win a game, 94 World Cup didn’t qualify. 2002-2012s “golden generation” never got past the quarter finals yet people are bleating on now like we have some divine right to win every tournament we enter anything less than that is abject failure and “not being very good at football” 

I think this is somewhat valid, but I’d argue that tonight we had easily enough to win this game, in a way that we haven’t in previous generations. 
 

I question tuchels squad. I’d have taken palmer, shaw, Bowen & Trent over his picks. But that’s fine. He’s somewhat been vindicated by getting this far. 
 

But in isolation, we were way on top until we scored.. then his subs made us worse and worse, culminating in an 8-0-2 formation against a team who have a strong midfield and are scared of pacey counter attacks. 
 

For me this is the first time I can look at England and genuinely feel like the players all performed towards their top level. And yet the manager fucked it completely. 

Before I think the players have underperformed. Tonight the manager cost us. 

[skintsaint]