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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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StD

StD

Posted
Posted (edited)
would be more than happy for HMRC to get their hands on the books, think most of us would like to see that happen. String the buggers up lol !

 

whatever happens whether league 1 after this season coming or whatever if we still have a club without chainrai and any other suspect fooker I'll be happy. Rivalry as you know goes out the window in the situations like this, most important thing is survival, we'll resume the rivalry later !! ;)

 

Fingers crossed; I'm sure people at HMRC have a pretty good idea of what's been going on and with any luck they can put a case together for the courts. Hopefully the derby days can resume soon, it's what football's about.

Edited by StD
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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
The ONLY reason all the "dubious characters" are remotely interested in football at the moment is because it is a cash business. In the current global market, cash is King. If you can secure a cash flow in the future, you can borrow against that now, and buy assets at very depressed prices.

 

It's how the rich get richer. Unless, of course, you can't secure that future cash flow. And instead have a future cash flow deficit. In which case your lenders start to look very closely at your assets, and ask you to reduce your overdraft. We've been there before.

 

Hatch it wasnt a dig, you could well be right

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ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
would be more than happy for HMRC to get their hands on the books, think most of us would like to see that happen. String the buggers up lol !

 

whatever happens whether league 1 after this season coming or whatever if we still have a club without chainrai and any other suspect fooker I'll be happy. Rivalry as you know goes out the window in the situations like this, most important thing is survival, we'll resume the rivalry later !! ;)

 

Only in The Fa Cup .. we'll be passing like ships in the night at the end of this season (if you are still in existence till then ... which I hope you are in some shape or form ... just a mere shadow of the last few years.)

 

The cleansing won't be nice, and hopefully the guilty will be be punished.

 

Would love to see would clauses Spurs have put in to RedKrooks contract!!

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brightspark

brightspark

Posted
Posted

In the coming weeks all we have to look out for now is this 20 player con that AA is spouting on about. It seems their performance this season totally relies on how strict the FL will be. So over to you FL - do the right thing and punish the cheating bus turds!!!

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
The HMRC served a writ against the PL and the FL stopping the payment direct to the football creditors?? didn't they.....
Fair point, but I expect the league will hold the money "in escrow", rather than send it to Hong Kong.
So thier are broke, can't buy any players, the courts are full till Octobercant get the CVA approved and they havn't got any parrachute payments......

 

Woo Hoo

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
In the coming weeks all we have to look out for now is this 20 player con that AA is spouting on about. It seems their performance this season totally relies on how strict the FL will be. So over to you FL - do the right thing and punish the cheating bus turds!!!

Of course not. According to Pompeyscott on one of the phew boards:

 

There is a meeting this Monday coming, in London, between the administrators (Andronikou etc) and people connected with the Rob Lloyd interest, to discuss what can be done. HMRC will, of course, be under consultation as well. Things are moving along very quickly and, hopefully, this can focus a few minds.

 

Lots more fun to be had while we wait for the season proper to kick off.

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
But once he buys it out of admin it will be debt free. I expect there will still be some parachutes left after the footie debt is paid off. He will own a debt free club, the ground and I expect (after a deal with gaydamak) all the land round it. He will easly find a buyer.

 

Like view from the top says, the debt hasn't gone away and so no one can buy the club debt free at the moment. As things stand, the CVA isn't agreed, the debt owed is £130M or whatever it is this week, and there is no agreement to pay this at 20p in the £ over 5 years.

 

The only way the debt can be wiped AFAIK is for it to be paid off; for an agreement to pay off xp in the £ (This is the CVA), or; for the club to liqiudate - and even here, all assetts will presumably go towards paying off the debts.

 

This is where is gets interesting as to who actually owns what - I seem to remember back in the mists of this thread that the land and ground are owned by Gaydamak/Chanari respectively. Which leaves the club's assets as the players and the photocopier, which is why AA is saying that no one gets very much at all if the CVA isn't agreed.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted

Just a few links on the Blue Phew. Sorry if already posted.

 

http://www.portsmouth-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/hmrc_to_appeal_cva_537234/index.shtml

 

Funny how the C.V.A. will now pay APPROXIMATELY 20%!

 

http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2266529/hmrc-faces-millions-costs

 

So, to sum up, they dump players, at a cost, so they go below 20 and can get a dispensation to sign more?

 

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/07/15/2027094/hmrc-appeal-against-portsmouth-company-voluntary-agreement

 

They.just.don't.get.it.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

"The situation remains confusing for administrator Andrew Andronikou, who is adamant he has discovered the promise of an extension was nothing more than a verbal agreement."

 

I remember being taught at school that a verbal agreement was, legally, just as binding as a written contract, from what I recall of o'level economics. Obviously the former is more difficult to substantiate than the latter but purely in terms of law it's binding. I'm not sure where the burden of proof lies, but the fact that AA has admitted the verbal agreement existed he may well have shot himself in the foot (for once)

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Under Weststand

Under Weststand

Posted
Posted

They just continue to believe that they can do what they want, & ignore the rules. The Skates are under a transfer embargo & therefore cannot bring players in. But today they announce they've agreed a season long loan for Sonko from Stoke???? At present they have 20 players, how do they think the FL will ratify this deal??

Rules what rules, but when do Poopey ever worry about rules eh they are only there for other clubs. Cheats! AA is truly a comedy legend!

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ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
LOLAGE at this ... perfect for this fred .... just substitute the "yeah" with "they're" (and you will be!!)and Robert is your sisters husband (or if you are a skate probably your brother and your dad as well)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAfOUnYrtPQ&feature=related

 

And of course there is always this one ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzsbtTzIdI

 

ENJOY.

 

For anybody who missed these last night ..........here's how to have a perfect start to the morning ... TOAST. :lol:

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

A couple of thoughts this morning.

 

The concensus seems to be that the transfer embargo would be lifted if they exit administration, either with a points deduction if there is no CVA or without if there is a CVA. I doubt that. I would expect the embargo to stay until all the football creditors have been paid in full, which by my reckoning, using the full parachute payments, is at least eighteen months away.

 

and

 

Andy's threat to sue the Government for millions. There is abslutely no chance that he will win a consequential loss or damages claim against HMRC. Their right to challenge the CVA is enshrined in the law of the land. They, like anybody else, will not be faulted for simply excercising that right. Conversely, if HMRC win, and Andy is found to have been negligent, that same claim could be made against him, personally.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Andy's threat to sue the Government for millions. There is abslutely no chance that he will win a consequential loss or damages claim against HMRC. Their right to challenge the CVA is enshrined in the law of the land. They, like anybody else, will not be faulted for simply excercising that right. Conversely, if HMRC win, and Andy is found to have been negligent, that same claim could be made against him, personally.

 

One assumes AA will be keen for it not to get to court then! If he does withdraw the CVA and sell the club whilst it is in administration does that automatically mean the court case will be cancelled? One part of HMRC's appeal appears to be that they claim AA did not follow the rules and if so surely even if the CVA is withdrawn it should still be investigated?

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
They just continue to believe that they can do what they want, & ignore the rules. The Skates are under a transfer embargo & therefore cannot bring players in. But today they announce they've agreed a season long loan for Sonko from Stoke???? At present they have 20 players, how do they think the FL will ratify this deal??

Rules what rules, but when do Poopey ever worry about rules eh they are only there for other clubs. Cheats! AA is truly a comedy legend!

 

They may have agreed a deal but that doesn't mean sweet FA to the FL!

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
If he does withdraw the CVA and sell the club whilst it is in administration does that automatically mean the court case will be cancelled?

This one, yes, but it would no doubt be replaced by others.

 

 

One part of HMRC's appeal appears to be that they claim AA did not follow the rules and if so surely even if the CVA is withdrawn it should still be investigated?

It would be open to any creditor who lost out to take civil action against AA. But it would only be about money. I doubt if he would face any criminal charges.

 

 

Another thought occurred to me. In the appeal HMRC will no doubt fight hard to prove that they are owed what they say they are, not the lesser amount accepted by AA. But I would also expect them to argue that other creditors (the ones who voted in favour) are owed less than AA accepted for voting purposes. AA admitted as much himself at the time. So, with his professional duty hat on, does he fight to prove the smaller debts owed to the others, to save the club money, or the larger ones he has already accepted, but admitted they are too high. Difficult one, that.

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
This is where is gets interesting as to who actually owns what - I seem to remember back in the mists of this thread that the land and ground are owned by Gaydamak/Chanari respectively. Which leaves the club's assets as the players and the photocopier, which is why AA is saying that no one gets very much at all if the CVA isn't agreed.

 

The photocopier is probably leased and the players' registrations are cancelled and they become free agents if the club ceases to exist or they don't get paid, which is another risk.

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
The photocopier is probably leased and the players' registrations are cancelled and they become free agents if the club ceases to exist or they don't get paid, which is another risk.

 

There you go then. Debts £130m+ assets nil. Added to that outgoings exceeding income for the foreseeable future. Can't see anything but liquidation myself.

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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
fingers crossed

 

Im not sure I actually want them to be liquidated and gone for good. Punnished accordingly and maybe made an example of in the interest of getting other teams to play fairly sure but it would be nice for them to have some form of club left so we can hope for some derbys in the future.

 

Some of there fans are actually starting to see what we have been able to for ages and in a strange way I feel sorry for them as if it was our team going through this I would be devistated by the idea that our club had been ru so badly that it tried to f**k over so many.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

QUESTIONS ANSWERED

 

EXPERT Gerald Krasner, Insolvency Specialist

 

THE man who was chairman of Leeds United during one of the most troubled periods of the club's history speaks to The News about the challenges which now face Pompey.

 

What do you make of HMRC's objections?

They are standard objections. There are very few grounds on which you can object to a CVA and these are the standard ones.

 

What happens next?

There has been an appeal to the High Court on a technicality that the CVA is prejudicial in the way in which football creditors are dealt with.

Normally an appeal like this would go to the High Court in about two to three months and a judge would rule on it then.

But it doesn't work that way with football clubs.

They will have to get an early hearing because the new season is just weeks away.

In order to get things sorted out before the new season they have to get into court during the next couple of weeks.

It is in the administrator's interests to get that sorted out as quickly as possible.

 

What will the administrator be doing now?

The administrator will now be instructing his lawyers.

The lawyers will be earning more money from this.

It's up to the administrator to get his act together now.

They will be working out what to do in defence of the CVA.

The hearing will go into the realms of technicalities that will be beyond the understanding of a lot of people.

 

What happens if the appeal is successful?The administrator wouldn't have time to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new CVA. He would probably try for a quick sale of the club but would find that difficult.

If Pompey can't pay their football creditors in full then their 'golden share' (the right to play in the Football League) will not be transferred to them and the club will disappear.

 

How do you think the appeal will go?

My money is on the revenue losing, but with the High Court, who knows?

 

Will Pompey face a points deduction in the new season?Leeds had 15 points for not getting a CVA agreed. Bournemouth got 17.

It is at the Football League's discretion. They will look at the financial history of the club. In my view if they do get one it will be between 15 points and 20 points.

If the CVA does go through there will be no points deduction, if it doesn't there will.

 

How does Pompey's financial meltdown compare to that of other football clubs in recent history?

It is much bigger than Leeds and at the time, Leeds was the biggest. Portsmouth is the classic iceberg story, people are only seeing what is going on above the water line.

 

Can there be a further appeal to the court's decision at the appeal hearing?Yes. Whatever the decision is, whether it goes in favour of the administrator of the revenue, they can both appeal. Sometimes it is possible to hear an appeal like that at the Court of Appeal within four days. The problem is it will be August and during August much of the judiciary is away on holiday, which could slow things down.

Edited by Weston Saint
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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
Im not sure I actually want them to be liquidated and gone for good. Punnished accordingly and maybe made an example of in the interest of getting other teams to play fairly sure but it would be nice for them to have some form of club left so we can hope for some derbys in the future.

 

Some of there fans are actually starting to see what we have been able to for ages and in a strange way I feel sorry for them as if it was our team going through this I would be devistated by the idea that our club had been ru so badly that it tried to f**k over so many.

 

Nah. Their death will do perfectly.

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
In the cold light of day:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-upbeat-in-battle-with.6424045.jp

 

No real problem then. They're going to win, and it'll all be sorted before the end of July :lol:

 

Reading some of the comments made the penny seems to have dropped to the blue few at long last. Maybe the local rag should start listening to their readership rather than the bs that aa keeps spouting.

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angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted

I sort of see where AA is coming from. Why did HMRC wait the full 28 days? Admittedly AA tried to shaft them, so a little shafting back, but as he says it is brinkmanship. But I do love AA's opinion of HMRC - he seems to think that they should just go away and fall into line.

 

If he was working on the other side of the fence, he would realise that it really isn't about Pooey, it's about the Football Creditors Rule. As the SA Law article states, it does break the fundamental rules where all creditors are treated equally. Taking a step back and being objective, I really do side with HMRC. I know why the rule came about, in order to stop a dominoes effect. But maybe selling clubs should ensure that the money is safe and if they take risks selling to dodgy clubs, then they should suffer the consequences like everyone else.

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
I sort of see where AA is coming from. Why did HMRC wait the full 28 days? Admittedly AA tried to shaft them, so a little shafting back, but as he says it is brinkmanship. But I do love AA's opinion of HMRC - he seems to think that they should just go away and fall into line.

 

If he was working on the other side of the fence, he would realise that it really isn't about Pooey, it's about the Football Creditors Rule. As the SA Law article states, it does break the fundamental rules where all creditors are treated equally. Taking a step back and being objective, I really do side with HMRC. I know why the rule came about, in order to stop a dominoes effect. But maybe selling clubs should ensure that the money is safe and if they take risks selling to dodgy clubs, then they should suffer the consequences like everyone else.

 

Surely the 28 days applies to any creditor who wishes to appeal, so even if HMRC had decided to appeal earlier nothing material could have happened until the 28 days were up in case someone else chose to appeal on similar grounds. Therefore it made bugger all difference whether HMRC appealed after 1 day or 27 days. These comments are just another example of AA talking drivel to try to cover up his inadequacy or inappropriate behaviour in the role.

 

K.

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angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
Surely the 28 days applies to any creditor who wishes to appeal, so even if HMRC had decided to appeal earlier nothing material could have happened until the 28 days were up in case someone else chose to appeal on similar grounds. Therefore it made bugger all difference whether HMRC appealed after 1 day or 27 days. These comments are just another example of AA talking drivel to try to cover up his inadequacy or inappropriate behaviour in the role.

 

K.

 

Ah - yes. I think you are probably correct.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
So, when they are relegated to L1 do they still get the parachute payments from the PL or is that only paid to Champ teams?

 

Oh they'll still get the payments. Not that the football side of things will see any of it.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Surely the 28 days applies to any creditor who wishes to appeal, so even if HMRC had decided to appeal earlier nothing material could have happened until the 28 days were up in case someone else chose to appeal on similar grounds. Therefore it made bugger all difference whether HMRC appealed after 1 day or 27 days. These comments are just another example of AA talking drivel to try to cover up his inadequacy or inappropriate behaviour in the role.

 

K.

 

True, but I guess he's saying that having sight of HMRC's appeal earlier would have given PFC more time to look into the issues raised before the 28 days were up.

 

Sort of latches onto the post I made yesterday: "did HMRC delay until the last possible minute as a tit-for-tat measure (thus lowering themselves to AA's level), or did it genuinely take best part of 28 days for HMRC to prepare their case?"

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
Well, here's a great little read. Bought out before HMRC's challange, but spot on. Well worth a read folks.

 

http://www.salaw.com/publications/articles/beware-the-ides-of-july.html

 

Very interesting read as you say. It appears that, in addition to alienating all the creditors, taxpayers, clubs beaten by them whilst using illegally funded players & right thinking, fair minded citizens they will now become the pariah that caused the leagues to be investigated & clubs to become credible businesses.

 

The last point (from our position of being run by business people) is no bad thing...the bonus is that Poorsmyth will be hated by so many more for instigating it.

 

Great read!:D

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

Andy's threat to sue the Government for millions. There is abslutely no chance that he will win a consequential loss or damages claim against HMRC. Their right to challenge the CVA is enshrined in the law of the land. They, like anybody else, will not be faulted for simply excercising that right. Conversely, if HMRC win, and Andy is found to have been negligent, that same claim could be made against him, personally.

 

This is spot on.

 

Talk of recovering damages because a prospective purchaser walks away from the table is utterly ludicrous.

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slickmick

slickmick

Posted
Posted
QUESTIONS ANSWERED

 

EXPERT Gerald Krasner, Insolvency Specialist

 

THE man who was chairman of Leeds United during one of the most troubled periods of the club's history speaks to The News about the challenges which now face Pompey.

 

What do you make of HMRC's objections?

They are standard objections. There are very few grounds on which you can object to a CVA and these are the standard ones.

 

What happens next?

There has been an appeal to the High Court on a technicality that the CVA is prejudicial in the way in which football creditors are dealt with.

Normally an appeal like this would go to the High Court in about two to three months and a judge would rule on it then.

But it doesn't work that way with football clubs.

They will have to get an early hearing because the new season is just weeks away.

In order to get things sorted out before the new season they have to get into court during the next couple of weeks.

It is in the administrator's interests to get that sorted out as quickly as possible.

What will the administrator be doing now?

The administrator will now be instructing his lawyers.

The lawyers will be earning more money from this.

It's up to the administrator to get his act together now.

They will be working out what to do in defence of the CVA.

The hearing will go into the realms of technicalities that will be beyond the understanding of a lot of people.

 

What happens if the appeal is successful?The administrator wouldn't have time to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new CVA. He would probably try for a quick sale of the club but would find that difficult.

If Pompey can't pay their football creditors in full then their 'golden share' (the right to play in the Football League) will not be transferred to them and the club will disappear.

 

How do you think the appeal will go?

My money is on the revenue losing, but with the High Court, who knows?

Will Pompey face a points deduction in the new season?Leeds had 15 points for not getting a CVA agreed. Bournemouth got 17.

It is at the Football League's discretion. They will look at the financial history of the club. In my view if they do get one it will be between 15 points and 20 points.

If the CVA does go through there will be no points deduction, if it doesn't there will.

 

How does Pompey's financial meltdown compare to that of other football clubs in recent history?

It is much bigger than Leeds and at the time, Leeds was the biggest. Portsmouth is the classic iceberg story, people are only seeing what is going on above the water line.

 

Can there be a further appeal to the court's decision at the appeal hearing?Yes. Whatever the decision is, whether it goes in favour of the administrator of the revenue, they can both appeal. Sometimes it is possible to hear an appeal like that at the Court of Appeal within four days. The problem is it will be August and during August much of the judiciary is away on holiday, which could slow things down.

 

Suprised no one has responded to this. It suggests that it could be taken to the courts within the next couple of weeks. He also thinks the HMRC will lose.

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