Pompey Takeover Saga

[Dark Munster]

Just to please 'Ho...

 

I also find Cardiff's actions in signing Bellamy completely wrong and contrary to any sense of fair play.

 

However, a mitigant there might be that they have recompensed much of the outlay through increased ticket sales and merchandise.

 

It'll be poetic justice if they (Cardiff) go up at Bigger Cheats FC's expense.

 

Oh how we'll laugh.

[Dark Munster]

I read it. Like you lot it failed to mention just how much of our debt is owed to current and former owners who loaded the debt onto the club and are still making money out of it. An article that completely failed to even remotely dig beneath the surface of what's happened.

 

Saints fans have condemned Pompey fans for laying even part of the blame for our predicament but it's hard not to look at the way Chainrais taken over the club and not view it as a scam from start to finish. When Faraj initially tried to buy the club before Fahim the PL were informed that Chainrai was a backer, despite his statement that he'd had no involvement before his mystery loan last October. Would you be happy with the PL/ FL if they allowed someone to take over Saints without ever even meeting him but by just having a look at his passport? That's what they did with Faraj.

 

Chainrais plan is to strip the club of whatever he can (let's see if Kitson and Lawrence are still at the club by Feb) and then liquidate us. It's been the plan all along. If you doubt that look at the business record of our new finance chief John Redgate. 8 of his 11 companies have been liquidated.

 

That I actually agree with, as I've mentioned a number of times (and you have too, I know). But, he also is making a gamble on promotion. If your lot go up you may be lucky enough to have enough left over, after he sells and gets as much out as possible, to have a chance of surviving, especially if the new owner (if a stupid enough one can be found) has sufficient dosh and is suitably benevolent. If you don't go up, the shit really hits the fan for you, and it's almost certainly goodnight Vienna for Cheats FC.

 

Fingers crossed.

[Dark Munster]

The problem I have with you lot on here is how ****ing sanctimonious you are.

 

Truth hurts, eh?

 

You bang on now about us only winning the cup by "cheating" when at the time none of you mentioned it. In fact, at the time you were all telling me we only won it because we only had to play lower league opposition all the way through (conveniently forgetting our win at Old Trafford). Tell me if fans of another club said the same of you that you wouldn't say it just smacked of sour grapes?

 

You consistently bang on about us "running up" £120m of debt when over half that figure is owed to our beloved recent owners, not to other clubs for players.

 

As you're all so sickened by our failure to pay HMRC I assume anyone with a Vodafone contract has now cancelled it due to them avoiding tax conservatively estimated at £1bn but reaching as much as £6bn according to Private Eye.

 

You're a bunch of whining hypocrites. If it was any other club but Pompey you wouldn't give a flying one. That's why I find you such a pathetically funny bunch.

 

And you conveniently forget that ManUre were down to 10 men, with Rio in goal. Oh, and you won with a squad of players that you couldn't afford. Cheats!

[Dark Munster]

If you think we're so bland then why the hell are you posting on a saints forum? Why don't you just **** off and do one.

 

This forum would be so much better if each and every single skate was banned from it. I'd even cough up the fiver for full membership if the mods did this.

 

I have to disagree, it would ruin a lot of the fun. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Dark Munster]

I think you will find that the punishment may be a bit different, one would be 3 points and the other would probably lose your license. Try it sometime, but don't forget to unhitch your caravan first.

 

Well what do you call 3 Pompey fans standing together ? A thicket ...... or it could be a record crowd.......

 

 

Memo to self: don't read this thread while drinking coffee.

[sidthesquid]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Kushnir-in-frame-for-Pompey.6600789.jp

 

This is one of the reasons we love his thread so much. Nobody in Poopey can keep their gob shut. It's like Eastenders where every married couple have to have their rows in public. In 40 years of supporting Saints the club have only ever been guilty of 'washing their dirty linen in public' during the Redflapp regime. We never hear the little details from the boardroom, nor expect to. But in what other organisation but Poopey would the CEO publicly discuss who is or isn't going to be chairman. Weird, but keep it up, 'cos I'd miss my favourite soap.

[Dalek2003]

F u c k m e Dalek, quit with the hystericals eh...! What you going to do, exterminate the lot of them....!

 

The Daleks are moving in to Krap fart park

[rallyboy]

is that the ground that fits far less people in it than it should, and it's like travelling back in time?

[JackFrost]

I read it. Like you lot it failed to mention just how much of our debt is owed to current and former owners who loaded the debt onto the club and are still making money out of it. An article that completely failed to even remotely dig beneath the surface of what's happened.

 

Saints fans have condemned Pompey fans for laying even part of the blame for our predicament but it's hard not to look at the way Chainrais taken over the club and not view it as a scam from start to finish. When Faraj initially tried to buy the club before Fahim the PL were informed that Chainrai was a backer, despite his statement that he'd had no involvement before his mystery loan last October. Would you be happy with the PL/ FL if they allowed someone to take over Saints without ever even meeting him but by just having a look at his passport? That's what they did with Faraj.

 

Chainrais plan is to strip the club of whatever he can (let's see if Kitson and Lawrence are still at the club by Feb) and then liquidate us. It's been the plan all along. If you doubt that look at the business record of our new finance chief John Redgate. 8 of his 11 companies have been liquidated.

 

I genuinely find it refreshing to encounter a Pompey fan (outside of my own personal Pompey supporting friends) who recognises what is going on. This is a very good post.

 

Problem is the vast majority of fans just don't recognise the crisis you are in, although it is understandable because a lot of the media doesn't appear to either. A lot of the fans still don't have a clue that the club can nowhere near afford the players you have now, regardless of the debt you still owe and the £80-90 million that the creditors have been done out of. They still think Pompey have a right to field a team of PL players on PL money in the championship with massive debts, and they STILL don't see a problem with it even after what has happened in the last couple of years. On the pitch Pompey have had hardly any pain yet, 1 relegation is nowhere near to where the club will eventually fall if still run in its current state.

 

As for the creative accounting that has gone on, why liquidate the club when there is still value in it?

 

As has been pointed out the one thing I don't get is why pay the players obscene wages, the only thing I can think of is they are being funded directly by the gate receipts to merely keep them there, and when they are eventually sold the transfer money will go straight into the wallet of Chainrai. Although this doesn't explain why the loan players are on obscene money.

Edited 28 October, 2010 by JackFrost

[JackFrost]

I think he will sell it on corp. He has just dropped 100 million quids worth of debt, has secured status over the 18 million he is owed, he has already had 4 million back, so even if he sells it for 10 million that is pure profit and with a guarantee that the parchute payments have his secured debt covered.

 

In less than 4 months, that guy from hull will be in charge.

 

What was that quote from Mandaric about "financial suicide"?

 

They may have dropped £100 million of debt but don't forget they are still rapidly piling the debt up again.

[JackFrost]

An important moment in the history of this thread. Ho actually gets it.

 

Forget the standing up for The Few line he takes (he is a Supporter after all and why shouldn't he), forget some of the bluster, but he hits the nail on the head.

 

There is NO money to be made out of Newco PFC for Chanrai.

 

As the UK emerges from recession in the next 2-3 years there WILL be money to be made from Property Development. The value is the land, always has been and always will be. It is all about the politics of how to get the Council to accept a NEW form of "Sporting or Leisure Use".

 

Chanrai is simply hedging his bets. IF he gets it up to the PL then even as a worthless shell it would be worth 20 to 30 million even in this market (and likely nearer 50 to 60). As a development? It would be worth 80-120 in profit.

 

Whatever happens, Chanrai cannot lose. The fans can, but then they don't deserve sympathy, they gave their CEO & Manager the freedom of their City. We had boycotts protest marches and bitter rows - THAT is why they cannot claim to be the injured parties either

 

This is the only thing I disagree on. Even if they got promotion and even with all the TV money I still see them as being far from an attractive investment. All promotion would do IMO is prolong the fuse in the life support machine and cause Chainrai's wallet to eventually bulge twice as much.

[buctootim]

I can see how Ho's scenario would work - its plausible, but I dont think its the most likely option. Surely if you just wanted to cash money out of the club you would just cut all costs to the bone, play 20 trainees on £150pw and pocket the remaining parachute payments. When the parachute has gone and the club in Lg2 or lower then you could argue it is no longer viable and redevelop Fratton into offices / flats.

[JackFrost]

I can see how Ho's scenario would work - its plausible, but I dont think its the most likely option. Surely if you just wanted to cash money out of the club you would just cut all costs to the bone, play 20 trainees on £150pw and pocket the remaining parachute payments. When the parachute has gone and the club in Lg2 or lower then you could argue it is no longer viable and redevelop Fratton into offices / flats.

 

A good point, one potential reason is if they did that they would lose most of their games and be relegation certs, and it wouldn't be long until the attendances hurtled towards 4 figures

[benjii]

This is the only thing I disagree on. Even if they got promotion and even with all the TV money I still see them as being far from an attractive investment. All promotion would do IMO is prolong the fuse in the life support machine and cause Chainrai's wallet to eventually bulge twice as much.

 

Absolutely.

 

It would still only be a worthwhile investment for someone:

 

a) with a desperate need for publicity;

b) bottomless pockets;

c) some other "unconventional" reason.

 

There is no reason why (b) would buy them so they will either get (a) or © again which would not lead to a sustainable PFC in the Prem and they would be back to square one in no time.

 

Their best hope, and it would be a great outcome, is that someone sensible gets hold of them for a fairly modest amount and tries to run them like a West Brom or Wolves.

[Chez]

The Daleks are moving in to Krap fart park

 

that gravel car park must have caught a few

[Chopper71]

I've edited it for you

 

A good point, one potential reason is if they did that they would lose most of their games and be relegation certs, and it wouldn't be long until the attendances hurtled towards 4

[scotty]

I've edited it for you

 

[eurosaint]

The problem I have with you lot on here is how ****ing sanctimonious you are. You bang on now about us only winning the cup by "cheating" when at the time none of you mentioned it. In fact, at the time you were all telling me we only won it because we only had to play lower league opposition all the way through (conveniently forgetting our win at Old Trafford). Tell me if fans of another club said the same of you that you wouldn't say it just smacked of sour grapes?

 

You consistently bang on about us "running up" £120m of debt when over half that figure is owed to our beloved recent owners, not to other clubs for players.

 

As you're all so sickened by our failure to pay HMRC I assume anyone with a Vodafone contract has now cancelled it due to them avoiding tax conservatively estimated at £1bn but reaching as much as £6bn according to Private Eye.

 

You're a bunch of whining hypocrites. If it was any other club but Pompey you wouldn't give a flying one. That's why I find you such a pathetically funny bunch.

 

You are correct in your assertion that the accurate debt to 'real' creditors was nearer to £60 million than £120 million !

Given this fact, the HMRC figure of around £30 million is about 50%, therefore, the CVA manipulated by Android should have been invalid !

Even by your own twisted logic you surely have to accept that this is CHEATING, no ?

You can't have it all ways, you know, either you dumped £100 mil + worth of bad debts or you cheated the CVA, please take your pick !

[Tamesaint]

You are correct in your assertion that the accurate debt to 'real' creditors was nearer to £60 million than £120 million !

Given this fact, the HMRC figure of around £30 million is about 50%, therefore, the CVA manipulated by Android should have been invalid !

Even by your own twisted logic you surely have to accept that this is CHEATING, no ?

You can't have it all ways, you know, either you dumped £100 mil + worth of bad debts or you cheated the CVA, please take your pick !

 

Don't expect an answer from Corp on this one. There is more likelihood of Rednapp being declared Pope than Corp sensibly answering a direct question like this.

[suewhistle]

Yep, that's right. I'm from Portsmouth so I must be thick

 

I'll get me coat....

 

Well, we're only going on the evidence.

[aintforever]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Kushnir-in-frame-for-Pompey.6600789.jp

 

The Lampit thing makes sense now, get a respected FA person to take charge just to get the golden share, then one that's sorted put the Israeli property developer in control.

[suewhistle]

The thing that makes me think you might be wrong is that I can't see why Andronikou would have sanctioned your current bout of unaffordable, cheat signings, without Chanrai's approval.

 

Perish the thought that AA was working for Chanrai: wouldn't that be another censure by a High Court judge? We know that AA has previous form in acting preferentially when his legal remit, let's all remember, is to act for all the creditors. Any thoughts on this aspect?

[PES]

Bump

[Shrek]

Bump

 

:lol:

 

 

I see Chainrai has been named chairman...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Chainrai-named-Pompey-chairman.6603880.jp

[tony13579]

It's Friday, it's pay day. Today the CHEATS have to turn over a new leaf. They have to pay their wages. They have to pay their tax. HMRC will be all over their case and if they don't pay we will be back in the court in 3 months. Are they reformed characters? Or will they continue as "do as you likies" and make all the same mistakes again?

[JackFrost]

It's Friday, it's pay day. Today the CHEATS have to turn over a new leaf. They have to pay their wages. They have to pay their tax. HMRC will be all over their case and if they don't pay we will be back in the court in 3 months. Are they reformed characters? Or will they continue as "do as you likies" and make all the same mistakes again?

 

Well judging by their current squad. . .

[Minsk]

Did they ever get the money (1m?) owed them by that Italian club (Milan?) that they said was needed so that the wages could be paid?

 

I wonder if 20p in the pound was offered them, over 5 years of course.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

:lol:

 

 

I see Chainrai has been named chairman...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Chainrai-named-Pompey-chairman.6603880.jp

 

I don't know why but I'm still surprised about how gullible the majority of pompey fans seem to be. They really think that Chanrai is 100% genuine and has done no wrong in the past year.

[Corporate Ho]

You are correct in your assertion that the accurate debt to 'real' creditors was nearer to £60 million than £120 million !

Given this fact, the HMRC figure of around £30 million is about 50%, therefore, the CVA manipulated by Android should have been invalid !

Even by your own twisted logic you surely have to accept that this is CHEATING, no ?

You can't have it all ways, you know, either you dumped £100 mil + worth of bad debts or you cheated the CVA, please take your pick !

 

Don't expect an answer from Corp on this one. There is more likelihood of Rednapp being declared Pope than Corp sensibly answering a direct question like this.

 

You really are a bunch of 'tards sometimes. It just proves that you don't actually read what I post on here. Since the day Andronikou was appointed I've always said he was nothing that Chainrai's ***** and that no-one else would be allowed to buy the club but dear old BC. Plenty on here have used the £120m figure (it was actually £138m if I remember correctly) regarding the "debt" and I've constantly said that the figure was nowhere near that figure and in relity not even at that level as the amounts we "owe" Chainrai and Gaydamak are dubious to say the least. My opinion is that Andronikou conned the courts and look back at my posts and it was me that highlighted a piece in one of the broadsheets detailing his previous cons. My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there? There was a mention the other day that our Man U win wa only because they were down to 10 men and Ferdinand was in goal - but no mention that this was because their keeper had been sent off for bringing down Baros in front of an empty net. This is why I always accuse you of being bitter and jealous about our cup win because there was never even a tacit admission that we deserved it because we beat the teams put in front of us. And the tax and transfer fees were all being paid back then too so just let it drop because all it makes you look like a bunch of spoilt children.

 

Perish the thought that AA was working for Chanrai: wouldn't that be another censure by a High Court judge? We know that AA has previous form in acting preferentially when his legal remit, let's all remember, is to act for all the creditors. Any thoughts on this aspect?

 

See my post above and refer back to my post highlighting his previous slimey misdeeds. The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish, ever since al Faraj bought the club from Fahim.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

[sidthesquid]

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there?

 

I think, had the world known then what we know now, the word CHEAT would have been everywhere in relation to that cup win

[dubai_phil]

You really are a bunch of 'tards sometimes. It just proves that you don't actually read what I post on here. Since the day Andronikou was appointed I've always said he was nothing that Chainrai's ***** and that no-one else would be allowed to buy the club but dear old BC. Plenty on here have used the £120m figure (it was actually £138m if I remember correctly) regarding the "debt" and I've constantly said that the figure was nowhere near that figure and in relity not even at that level as the amounts we "owe" Chainrai and Gaydamak are dubious to say the least. My opinion is that Andronikou conned the courts and look back at my posts and it was me that highlighted a piece in one of the broadsheets detailing his previous cons. My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there? There was a mention the other day that our Man U win wa only because they were down to 10 men and Ferdinand was in goal - but no mention that this was because their keeper had been sent off for bringing down Baros in front of an empty net. This is why I always accuse you of being bitter and jealous about our cup win because there was never even a tacit admission that we deserved it because we beat the teams put in front of us. And the tax and transfer fees were all being paid back then too so just let it drop because all it makes you look like a bunch of spoilt children.

 

 

 

See my post above and refer back to my post highlighting his previous slimey misdeeds. The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish, ever since al Faraj bought the club from Fahim.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

 

Dear Ho.

 

Do you have acces to ANY independent confirmation or evidence to corroborate your statement, especially concerning the debt levels and collusion?

 

If you do, then I suggest that you may be able to qualify for several hundred years of extra tax benefits by passing that across to HMRC.

 

If you do NOT then you really should be a bit more careful and learn to type the word allegedly in your missives.

 

FWIW allegedly I agree with you. (But NOT on the Cheating Part)

 

Oh and the scam as you call it dates back to "Why did Storrie TRY and bring in Al Faraj? Why was Al Fahim suddenly rolled into view?"

 

A Kindergarten level of research would have revealed that something was wrong at that stage.

 

(Jeez - even our dear LLS managed to work that one out for himself, how come "Freedom of The City Supertsars" couldn't? Surely not? this would mean that LLS is a far better Businessman and expert in Football Club takeovers than your previously revered Leadership!)

 

And yet it did not stop the "We've been bought by billionaire" posting embarrassment of some of the Few on here

[OldNick]

You really are a bunch of 'tards sometimes. It just proves that you don't actually read what I post on here. Since the day Andronikou was appointed I've always said he was nothing that Chainrai's ***** and that no-one else would be allowed to buy the club but dear old BC. Plenty on here have used the £120m figure (it was actually £138m if I remember correctly) regarding the "debt" and I've constantly said that the figure was nowhere near that figure and in relity not even at that level as the amounts we "owe" Chainrai and Gaydamak are dubious to say the least. My opinion is that Andronikou conned the courts and look back at my posts and it was me that highlighted a piece in one of the broadsheets detailing his previous cons. My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there? There was a mention the other day that our Man U win wa only because they were down to 10 men and Ferdinand was in goal - but no mention that this was because their keeper had been sent off for bringing down Baros in front of an empty net. This is why I always accuse you of being bitter and jealous about our cup win because there was never even a tacit admission that we deserved it because we beat the teams put in front of us. And the tax and transfer fees were all being paid back then too so just let it drop because all it makes you look like a bunch of spoilt children.

 

 

 

See my post above and refer back to my post highlighting his previous slimey misdeeds. The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish, ever since al Faraj bought the club from Fahim.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

 

Ho, I had many tussles with you regarding the wages and debts you were running up at that time and well before that. I recall also when the papers came out and said you were 100m in debt and you came back and scoffed at it.

As for saying Pompey did not owe 138m but only half !!!! For the club to have the debt they had to take it on. It is obvious when you are paying Crouchs of the world (as reported at the time 90k pw) but even if it was 50k and he was only 1 , you dont have to go long before you have massive debts. Saints were losing 500k a month with decent gates and average squad. We cant even say Sky money was that high in that period to offset yours. Add to that all the transfer fees and interest you were stacking up and at i suggest high rates and the debt soon becomes a mountain.

As for blaming you as a fan for supporting the regime, i personally don't there is little i believe you could do to stop them, and anyway we all forget things during the good days. Under Lowe there were no protests as we went to Cardiff. I have as you know pulled you and your fans up for showing no remorse or shame that your club has stolen from small family businesses (twice) and you brushed that aside. This was before you went into Admin the 2nd time.

[rpb]

It's rather ironic tat AA claimed he would only sell to someone with the finance to move the club forward and that Chanrai's first words on taking over indicated that they would have to borrow money.

[eurosaint]

You really are a bunch of 'tards sometimes. It just proves that you don't actually read what I post on here. Since the day Andronikou was appointed I've always said he was nothing that Chainrai's ***** and that no-one else would be allowed to buy the club but dear old BC. Plenty on here have used the £120m figure (it was actually £138m if I remember correctly) regarding the "debt" and I've constantly said that the figure was nowhere near that figure and in relity not even at that level as the amounts we "owe" Chainrai and Gaydamak are dubious to say the least. My opinion is that Andronikou conned the courts and look back at my posts and it was me that highlighted a piece in one of the broadsheets detailing his previous cons. My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there? There was a mention the other day that our Man U win wa only because they were down to 10 men and Ferdinand was in goal - but no mention that this was because their keeper had been sent off for bringing down Baros in front of an empty net. This is why I always accuse you of being bitter and jealous about our cup win because there was never even a tacit admission that we deserved it because we beat the teams put in front of us. And the tax and transfer fees were all being paid back then too so just let it drop because all it makes you look like a bunch of spoilt children.

 

 

 

See my post above and refer back to my post highlighting his previous slimey misdeeds. The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish, ever since al Faraj bought the club from Fahim.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

 

Sorry Ho, but it has everything to do with the club !

You do not like to be associated with it (although many of your fellow fans seem oblivious to it !) but I'm afraid that the club and the owners/administrators are one and the same !

The falsely generated success was accepted, therefore the demise must also be accepted !

'Criminals or cheats', I don't mind which word you use but it does apply to Porstmouth City Football Club not just their most recent representatives !

[Frank's cousin]

You really are a bunch of 'tards sometimes. It just proves that you don't actually read what I post on here. Since the day Andronikou was appointed I've always said he was nothing that Chainrai's ***** and that no-one else would be allowed to buy the club but dear old BC. Plenty on here have used the £120m figure (it was actually £138m if I remember correctly) regarding the "debt" and I've constantly said that the figure was nowhere near that figure and in relity not even at that level as the amounts we "owe" Chainrai and Gaydamak are dubious to say the least. My opinion is that Andronikou conned the courts and look back at my posts and it was me that highlighted a piece in one of the broadsheets detailing his previous cons. My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

But onto the subject of us "cheating" to win the cup, tis is where you lot achieve world class distinction in revisionism. When we won there was no mention by you of us "cheating". Apparently 99% of you thought we won because we only had to play lower league opposition - so there was no need for us to cheat was there? There was a mention the other day that our Man U win wa only because they were down to 10 men and Ferdinand was in goal - but no mention that this was because their keeper had been sent off for bringing down Baros in front of an empty net. This is why I always accuse you of being bitter and jealous about our cup win because there was never even a tacit admission that we deserved it because we beat the teams put in front of us. And the tax and transfer fees were all being paid back then too so just let it drop because all it makes you look like a bunch of spoilt children.

 

 

 

See my post above and refer back to my post highlighting his previous slimey misdeeds. The whole thing has been a scam from start to finish, ever since al Faraj bought the club from Fahim.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

Think is HO

 

NO one whinged abolut you 'cheating' when you won the cup, because at that time, possibly like you it was a) no known that you had not been paying Mr Taxman, and in principle if can afford a loan, the the repayments etc than legally nothing wrong and you can spend it on what you wish... unfortunately, itb was in effect cheating which has come to light with the benefit of hindisght in that a) you could not actually afford any repyent, b) the club had no plan in place to repay it (even a Champions league 20 mil + extra revenue, would have left you with a debt mountain - which not being a brief, I cant comment on the legality of ) c) you had not been paying the taxman, and perhaps the most important point, this debt did not even go on decent infrastructure... just ****ed against a wall on the hope of transient success through rapidly depreciating player assets.

 

The 'cheat' tag as you probaly well know refere to the simple fact that prior to that cup win in at the start of that season, it was was reported in the media (and not challenged by the club) that you were close to 40 mil in debt already (unsecured) - what did the club do? Did it shed big earners, recognise it could not go that way, understand the footballing consequences? NO, it kept spending on players that the clubs around them on similar levels of standard revenue, could not afford creating an unfair competitive advantage... You will no doubt say 'so what you did it, you were 30 mil in debt in the prem... etc... to which teh response is obvious - this was the stadium mortgage, and there were plenty of our fans unhappy that as a results of the repaymenst of approx 2 mil a year, we were not spending on this extra on wages etc... and we DID NOT keep spending and borrowing to ramp this up to 100 mil or so in an effiort to stay in the top flight... we may still be their had we done so, as would plenty of other clubs... On relegation,to the CCC we cut our cloth as best we could under the conditions of the contracts... we sold prize assetss and youth and so built up a spare bit of cash... However, new board came in and in a push for popularity spent that rainy day cash on a promotion push...you may or not know, teh fan base was split at the time, with amny advocating this as a risky strategy and having concerns about this spend... it failed... as we know, we had a season of stupidity in the board room. Lowe came back and whatever else we think of him, he at least recognised we were in the shiete... his solution was to bring in some dutch coaches on the cheap, ship out as many older playesr and play kids - diasterous in football terms, but saw our overdraft slowly being reduced - we kept paying the stadium loan and we kept paying the taxman - notice the difference there? but the lower gates also impacted and the speed of teh overdraft reduction during a financial crisis meant it was called in... at that moment we were in fact insolvent and Lowe, did what was legally required and put teh club into administration which resulte din him personally loosing approx £800,000 in share value... so whatever we think of him, your various owners make him look like a true Saint.

 

Sure the club looked at teh legal issue around the -10 points with the football club being in effect a subsidary of the SLH and not in fact in debt itself, given that historically SLH also had several other businesses, SMS Ltd, Saints INsurance Ltd and Saints Radio Ltd... but it did not was we took our punishment... which HAD an impact in starting last season on -10 costing us a playoff place... so what impact has your 'punishment had despite no effort to cut your cloth, pay teh taxman, continue to trade whilst insolvent, ship out kids to plead a depleated squad and make big loan signings during admin? Feck all ... thats what and you still ask why some on here find that this stinks?

 

I am not saying you should have been liquidated, I dont want that for any club, but there needs to justice in terms of both an effective and appropriate punsihment, one that has an impact and one that is effective... Despite whatever pain the fans have gone through, you have in effect 'got away with it' and that only adds to teh cheats tag because what you are left with is an FA Cup triumph 80% of which was paid for by the taxpayer and the businesses that with get 20p in the ppound over the next 5 years... now had pompey fans bowed their heads in shame, apologised and understood this 'luck' - you may have had teh sympathy that normally follows football fans when clubs shaft them, but no we have the whooping of victory and the gloating of that success, built on nothing but other peoples money.

[holepuncture]

Looks like Ho is catching up with where we were around december. Fair play to him, and good luck exposing the launderers.

 

Hopefully you can muster up more than 30 odd protesters on a sunny afternoon, like last time.

 

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=9621

 

"The view was expressed that Portsmouth had bought success with borrowed money and should suffer the consequences if they couldn’t give that money back. But, of course, that was, literally, only half the story."

 

The view of the Non-League Paper/200%.

 

Everyone who is informed, or can read, can see what is going on. Those who cant, will find out eventually, everyone will know the Skates to be cheats, the fans to be retarded, the owners will be percieved as crooks. Or already are, either way, poopey are a troubled business, with a diseased brand name and with a shambolic identity.

 

The laughing stock of the footballing nation.

 

In fact, most people just s******, shake (sheik) there heads in utter disbelief, or say 'what the **** is going on down there'

[Frank's cousin]

To be fair... if there was criminal activity, then that needs to be investigated, and quite rightly this should not reflect on the fans... but whatever the source of the 'money' the fact remains that the club gained success on money they did NOT have or could not pay back... will pompey fans demand the Cup is returned and awarded to Millwall or think Millwall did not deserve to win it because they did not during taht January window borrow money they could not afford, but in a load of better players on huge wages, win a trophy, and then sit back whilst they ran out of money, went into admin and did not ahve to pay for it?

[Corporate Ho]

Dear Ho.

 

Do you have acces to ANY independent confirmation or evidence to corroborate your statement, especially concerning the debt levels and collusion?

 

If you do, then I suggest that you may be able to qualify for several hundred years of extra tax benefits by passing that across to HMRC.

 

If you do NOT then you really should be a bit more careful and learn to type the word allegedly in your missives.

 

FWIW allegedly I agree with you. (But NOT on the Cheating Part)

 

Oh and the scam as you call it dates back to "Why did Storrie TRY and bring in Al Faraj? Why was Al Fahim suddenly rolled into view?"

 

A Kindergarten level of research would have revealed that something was wrong at that stage.

 

(Jeez - even our dear LLS managed to work that one out for himself, how come "Freedom of The City Supertsars" couldn't? Surely not? this would mean that LLS is a far better Businessman and expert in Football Club takeovers than your previously revered Leadership!)

 

And yet it did not stop the "We've been bought by billionaire" posting embarrassment of some of the Few on here

 

Phil, for an intelligent guy you miss quite a lot (especially thinking that typing "allegedly" in front of something would protect you legally). There's been far worse posted on here about various things so if Granty and Baj want to delete it feel free. You mention our "previously revered leadership" but Storrie has never been revered by the majority of Pompey fans. He's been called Storrie Teller by most of our lot since he joined. But your point about the Faraj/ Fahim takeovers misses some key info. Gaydamak refused to sell to Faraj because of who his backers were - Chainrai and Kushnir. Their names were confirmed to the PL at the time which the PL admitted when they met with the Pompey fans. This makes a mockery of Chainrai's claim that he only got involved in October last year. Fahim had the money via his backers who assumed they'd get through the FAPPT but that went tits up so he sold to Faraj. Faraj did show proof of funds and I've been told by someone involved how much he was showing as available. Where that came from who knows (I have my suspicions) but of course it never materialised and that allowed Chainrai to step in seeing a "business opportunity" with his loan. A loan to Falcondrone (a company he was already involved with, not to PFC) which when Faraj defaulted on it meant he could seize the club. It's money the club never saw, gained no advantage from and was routed from the BVI to the BVI. So now Chainrai effectively has the club and because it was Portpin who loaned the money somehow also becomes a secured creditor for this mystery amount.

 

A scam or a brilliant manipulation of the law? You decide

 

Ho, I had many tussles with you regarding the wages and debts you were running up at that time and well before that. I recall also when the papers came out and said you were 100m in debt and you came back and scoffed at it.

As for saying Pompey did not owe 138m but only half !!!! For the club to have the debt they had to take it on. It is obvious when you are paying Crouchs of the world (as reported at the time 90k pw) but even if it was 50k and he was only 1 , you dont have to go long before you have massive debts. Saints were losing 500k a month with decent gates and average squad. We cant even say Sky money was that high in that period to offset yours. Add to that all the transfer fees and interest you were stacking up and at i suggest high rates and the debt soon becomes a mountain.

As for blaming you as a fan for supporting the regime, i personally don't there is little i believe you could do to stop them, and anyway we all forget things during the good days. Under Lowe there were no protests as we went to Cardiff. I have as you know pulled you and your fans up for showing no remorse or shame that your club has stolen from small family businesses (twice) and you brushed that aside. This was before you went into Admin the 2nd time.

 

Nick, pretty much all PL clubs are running at a loss (not just PL clubs I might add) so debt is not a surprise. You say here you were losing at least £6m a year (players you couldn't afford? CHEATS). Most businesses have debts or loans. We believed (as you lot did) that the money was coming from Gaydamak, not from loans, in the same way Chelsea or Man City are run. And the fact is that when we won the cup the debt was affordable because there wasn't an issue servicing the debt. Many of the players on high wages like Distin and Campbell were free transfers so while the wages were high if you factored in what we saved on transfers it probably evened out. I'll give you an example - we could have bought an average PL defender and paid £3m for him and paid him £30K a week for two years and it would have cost us £6m. Or we could sign Distin on a free and pay him £60K a week and it wouldn't have cost us any more. Buying the likes of Crouch and Defoe was a mistake and we paid them too much but neither was involved in the cup win.

 

As for going into administration twice, I've constantly told you that the first time was because Martin Gregory loaded debt onto the club. Someone on here disputes that it was to keep his other business running, that's what was reported at the time but he DID take out massive loans secured on the club for personal reasons of some sort and that's what drove us into admin. This time, it's pretty clear to see that whilst we had debts they could have been serviceable via PL money or parachute payments had the likes of Fahim or Faraj not been allowed to take over with either no hope or no intention of running the club legitamately which then saw the debt to HMRC etc escalate - deliberately so in my opinion

[teamsaint]

FWIW, I think that Ho has a pretty fair idea of the "real " situation" at poopey before the collapse last season.

However, its also fair to say that the administration has been an elegantly worked out sham that HAS cheated creditors, including the tax payer, very badly.

its also true that the CVA vote was rigged,if the true debt was nearer £60m....and that is cheating. the administration scam has also worked against the interests of poopeys football rivals. It cannot be right that a club in ( a rather dubious) administration is spending money on players that other clubs with similar income can only dream of.

Personally, I think its high time that strict limits were put on money that clubs can spend outside of that generated by football iE gate money, legitimate sponsorship, transfer income etc.

Firstly it would make the game more transparent financially, as well as better run.

Secondly , it would restore some much needed elements of real competition...and maybe make the game more interesting. Man citehs current success is of little real interest compared to their "real" success back in the Alison/ Mercer days.

THirdly. it might stop clubs being so much at the mercy of people like gaydamac and chanrai....and (dare i say it)our own owners.

And all this would need to be done with a proper, sensible and fair distribution of SKY money...a distribution that would stop insame gambles on promotion to the PL at any cost.

 

remember the days when chairmen were happier being top of div 2 than bottom of div 1? not such a bad thing really.

[dubai_phil]

[quote=Corporate Ho;880938.

 

Gaydamak refused to sell to Faraj because of who his backers were - Chainrai and Kushnir. Their names were confirmed to the PL at the time which the PL admitted when they met with the Pompey fans. This makes a mockery of Chainrai's claim that he only got involved in October last year.

 

Fahim had the money via his backers who assumed they'd get through the FAPPT but that went tits up so he sold to Faraj. Faraj did show proof of funds and I've been told by someone involved how much he was showing as available. Where that came from who knows (I have my suspicions) but of course it never materialised and that allowed Chainrai to step in seeing a "business opportunity" with his loan. A loan to Falcondrone (a company he was already involved with, not to PFC) which when Faraj defaulted on it meant he could seize the club. It's money the club never saw, gained no advantage from and was routed from the BVI to the BVI. So now Chainrai effectively has the club and because it was Portpin who loaned the money somehow also becomes a secured creditor for this mystery amount.

 

A scam or a brilliant manipulation of the law? You decide

 

 

This time, it's pretty clear to see that whilst we had debts they could have been serviceable via PL money or parachute payments had the likes of Fahim or Faraj not been allowed to take over with either no hope or no intention of running the club legitamately which then saw the debt to HMRC etc escalate - deliberately so in my opinion

 

The unknown unknown in the sorry tale as Cheney would say. Think you have a pretty good guess as to who was backing Fahim without taking anyone to taks

 

The key part of the Storrie is still why if that backer was so obvious (in a shrouded sort of way) did the "Leadership" enter into last season full guns blazing and not try and cut their cloth. The business model was unsustainable back then despite the protestations at the first court hearing, and yet they COULD have saved the club last season by tightening the belts early on.

 

Which means that it could be inferred that Storrie teller was in on the scam.

 

Hopefully your own detectives down there WILL get to the bottom of the mess. The BAD thing is, as seen with Luton, IF (yeah right) AS (allegedly) bad things may well have gone on, it won't protect the club.

 

Pretty sure Lampitt's role is (was) to avoid the cesspit overflowing. Will be interesting to see what happens now he has been pushed to one side.

 

Long way to go

[dubai_phil]

So, we enter the world of the 35,000 with the shock that the Few are simply hiding behind the bluster and deep down may well be as worried as the rest of football by the cesspit that was once a football club.

 

here's to the next 35,000

[Gemmel]

A scam or a brilliant manipulation of the law? You decide

 

And there you have it. A single sentance / question to sum up 700 pages, 35,000 posts and 1.5 million views.

A little disappointed it was one of our fishy friends that got there first, but that is ultimately what this whole thing boils down to.

[Colinjb]

And there you have it. A single sentance / question to sum up 700 pages, 35,000 posts and 1.5 million views.

A little disappointed it was one of our fishy friends that got there first, but that is ultimately what this whole thing boils down to.

 

Never mind it being a question. It could be both one and the same.

[stevegrant]

Hopefully your own detectives down there WILL get to the bottom of the mess.

The main problem is that the person overseeing this forensic investigation is one of the men central to it having played out in the way it has in the first place.

[Chez]

The main problem is that the person overseeing this forensic investigation is one of the men central to it having played out in the way it has in the first place.

 

there was talk that the HMRC would look over the books once the company is liquidated. Will that really happen?

[Saint Lindford]

but Storrie has never been revered by the majority of Pompey fans.

 

That is why his name was sung at FP on at least one occaision last season then??

[rallyboy]

Ho me old mucker, we all went from quietly saying to ourselves 'how did they win that cup?' to 'ah, now I see how they did it!.....'

 

The finances were heading off the rails for several years before the final crash - if we have got to that point yet....

 

The clumsy attempt to win it again this year at all costs didn't reflect well on the 2008 effort either.

If you still maintain that the victory over Cardiff was fair, surely you must accept that the last cup run was blatantly illegal?

[Lord Duckhunter]

That is why his name was sung at FP on at least one occaision last season then??

 

Didn't Storrie claim that the chants of "One Peter Storrie" convinced him to stay on.

[suewhistle]

My issue is you calling PFC cheats when what is actually being perpetrated by Chainrai, Kushnir and Andronikou is a crime, not cheating and it's nothing to do with the club.

 

Oh, and Sue, don't start mentioning thngs like Socratic dialogue on here, it makes you look desperate to impress and very, very needy, not to mention a pseud of the highest order

 

How many times do we have to point out that legally and from the point of the Football League it doesn't make any difference, as the case of Luton shows. The previous regime did the business, the new one was honest, but the club still suffered the points deduction. When people use the shorthand that the club are cheats they aren't apportioning blame on a percentage basis.

 

As for your personal jibe, I notice that nobody answered the simple questions and that there isn't a shred of humour in you, unlike the other Pompey posters on here. As for needy, who do you think I want to impress? As far as I know there aren't any other dykes on here, so I'll fulfill my needs with my local womens' football team ta very much.

[dubai_phil]

The main problem is that the person overseeing this forensic investigation is one of the men central to it having played out in the way it has in the first place.

 

True Steve, my bad, I meant the few fans who are independently digging around trying to find out WTF happened to them.

 

Of course, back in context, I doubt they will, it's very hard using a calculator or hacking computers with webbed fingers....