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20 years ago today ....


Dark Munster

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... Chris Nicholl was sacked, replaced by the football genius Br*nf**t. Saints only had 3 managers in previous 36 years before Nicholl's sacking, but since then they've sacked and hired God knows how many managers over the last 20 years.

 

A lot of fans were happy to see him go, but I thought he did a pretty decent job, and we had a bloody exciting team under him (albeit with a very dodgy defence).

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Things already seemed to be drifting under Nicholl. Started with a great legacy but frittered it slowly away. Having said that, it would have been better to keep him than unleash the mayhem that followed. Good old hindsight.

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Things already seemed to be drifting under Nicholl. Started with a great legacy but frittered it slowly away. Having said that, it would have been better to keep him than unleash the mayhem that followed. Good old hindsight.

 

Agreed. I really thought - at the time - that Saints under Nicholl were stagnating,and he showed insufficient drive or motivational skills. Had I known what was round the corner I'd have settled for a few more seasons of Nicholl's mediocrity than what followed.

 

The worst part of CN going though was put to me by someone at the time as Saints (having now sacked a manager ) "had let the genie out of the bottle" and hoped we would not become like every other club sacking managers every five minutes. Prophetic words.

 

In hindsight though CN's years were not that bad,he brought in a number of young players from Merrington's youth team and signed Flowers and Ruddock , and that autumn when we beat Liverpool 4-1 is a great memory. Little surprised that Nicholl did not make too much of a career after Saints.

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I still have the great Uglyinside fanzine with CN on the front to the words of 'Should I stay or should I go now' and all over the cover it says go go go go go go go go go go go go go with 1 stay. So it seems to me the fans had had enough, but we had some excellent games under his management, did we not play 4-2-4 formation home and away with Shearer, Rod Wallace and Le Tisser up front. We were the second top scorers with 71 goals.

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The worst thing about sacking CN is that we replaced him with someone with no experience in the top fight and a negative manager to say the least. We went from one extreme to the other!!

 

Even more ridiculous, again with the benefit of hindsight, is that the obvious choice to replace him,and an early favourite amongst fans was some up and coming bloke from Bournemouth.

 

The day the sacking was announced he was advertising his interest in the job with "whoever gets that job will be the luckiest man in football ", its a great job, blah,blah. A few weeks later - when realising he was not in the running - he announced his allegiance to AFCB. Just like Eddie did.

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... Chris Nicholl was sacked, replaced by the football genius Br*nf**t. Saints only had 3 managers in previous 36 years before Nicholl's sacking, but since then they've sacked and hired God knows how many managers over the last 20 years.

 

A lot of fans were happy to see him go, but I thought he did a pretty decent job, and we had a bloody exciting team under him (albeit with a very dodgy defence).

 

 

Nigel Adkins12 Sep, 2010 -PresentDean Wilkins30 Aug, 2010 -12 Sep, 2010Alan Pardew17 Jul, 2009 -30 Aug, 2010Mark Wotte23 Jan, 2009 -09 Jul, 2009Jan Poortvliet29 May, 2008 -23 Jan, 2009Nigel Pearson18 Feb, 2008 -29 May, 2008John Gorman24 Jan, 2008 -18 Feb, 2008George Burley23 Dec, 2005 -24 Jan, 2008Dave Bassett02 Dec, 2005 -23 Dec, 2005Harry Redknapp08 Dec, 2004 -02 Dec, 2005Steve Wigley23 Aug, 2004 -08 Dec, 2004Paul Sturrock04 Mar, 2004 -23 Aug, 2004Steve Wigley13 Feb, 2004 -04 Mar, 2004Gordon Strachan22 Oct, 2001 -13 Feb, 2004Stuart Gray30 Mar, 2001 -21 Oct, 2001Glenn Hoddle28 Jan, 2000 -28 Mar, 2001Dave Jones23 Jun, 1997 -27 Jan, 2000Graeme Souness03 Jul, 1996 -01 Jun, 1997Dave Merrington14 Jul, 1995 -14 Jun, 1996Lawrie McMenemy02 Jul, 1995 -14 Jul, 1995Alan Ball20 Jan, 1994 -02 Jul, 1995Ian Branfoot11 Jun, 1991 -10 Jan, 1994Chris Nicholl12 Jul, 1985 -22 May, 1991

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I've been trying to come up with the complete list of managers that we have had in those 20 years:

 

Ian Branfoot

Alan Ball

Dave Merrington

Graham Souness

Dave Jones

Glen Hoddle

Stuart Gray

Gordon Strachen

Steve Wigley

Harry Rednapp

Dave Bassett

George Burley

Jason Dodd / John Gorman

Nigel Pearson

Jan Poortvliet

Mark Woote

Alan Pardew

Nigel Adkins

 

I make that 18 in total (if you count Dodd/Gorman together). Did I forget anyone?

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The worst thing about sacking CN is that we replaced him with someone with no experience in the top fight and a negative manager to say the least. We went from one extreme to the other!!

 

We did that again in the Spring of 2004 when we put Wurzel in charge !

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I still have the great Uglyinside fanzine with CN on the front to the words of 'Should I stay or should I go now' and all over the cover it says go go go go go go go go go go go go go with 1 stay. So it seems to me the fans had had enough, but we had some excellent games under his management, did we not play 4-2-4 formation home and away with Shearer, Rod Wallace and Le Tisser up front. We were the second top scorers with 71 goals.

 

You are correct, add Paul Rideout to the front line supported by Cockerill and Case in Midlfield.

 

Chris Nicholl followed a legend and proceeded a procession. I still have a signed picture with him from 1986.

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I still have the great Uglyinside fanzine with CN on the front to the words of 'Should I stay or should I go now' and all over the cover it says go go go go go go go go go go go go go with 1 stay. So it seems to me the fans had had enough, but we had some excellent games under his management, did we not play 4-2-4 formation home and away with Shearer, Rod Wallace and Le Tisser up front. We were the second top scorers with 71 goals.

 

It wasnt The Ugly Inside with that cover, it was On The March - and of course, they did one or two other decent covers back then!!

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....................Ian Branfoot11 Jun, 1991 -10 Jan,1994...........

 

I can't believe that **** was in charge for that long. That period was (for me) the darkest and and most depressing of my 45 years watching saints.

 

(That is until that even bigger **** lowe brought in that outstandingly untalented manager poortvliet which really was the the end of saints as I knew them)

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I can't believe that **** was in charge for that long. That period was (for me) the darkest and and most depressing of my 45 years watching saints.

 

(That is until that even bigger **** lowe brought in that outstandingly untalented manager poortvliet which really was the the end of saints as I knew them)

 

Never got us relegated and took us to a Wembley Cup Final. That wasn't too bad an achievement considering his reign coincided with English football becoming even more money orientated, with saints being further left behind in that regard.

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Woodford was a decent chairman to work for. Askham and Lowe weren't and their judgement was very average. That's why we've been through so many managers, after a long period of stability.

 

One of my best days of supporting Saints was when Branfoot was sacked and Bally got the job.

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For me, his biggest sin was getting rid of Jimmy Case, one of our best ever midfielders. He told Jimmy that he wouldn't fit in to his style of football. How right that was.

 

Who did he replace him with? Terry Hurlock. We used to take bets on when in the match he'd get his yellow card.

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I'm guessing sour mashs post is just for a reaction.

 

In many ways we had be spolit by the years that preceeded branfoot's appointment in terms of the football we played.

 

There is split second of footage that sums up branfoot completely.

 

As Le Tissier dispatched his first worldee of his famous brace against Newcastle, the camera pans round to brantfoot who tells Paul moody to sit back down. The clueless clown was about to take MLT off for the mighty paul moody...... That tells you all you need to know about branfoot

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I still have the great Uglyinside fanzine with CN on the front to the words of 'Should I stay or should I go now' and all over the cover it says go go go go go go go go go go go go go with 1 stay. So it seems to me the fans had had enough, but we had some excellent games under his management, did we not play 4-2-4 formation home and away with Shearer, Rod Wallace and Le Tisser up front. We were the second top scorers with 71 goals.

 

We had the best attack in the first division at the time. But things did start to go stale. Fans patience became stretched and people vocally wanted change. The bran foot era was shocking although taken too far by one fanzine on the march who made a terrible mistake with one issue. The ugly back then was great and i still have most of mine. Hard to believe so long ago.

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Nicholl did well overall but had the hard task of following LM who had created our best years prior to that and also the immediate seasons after Heysel really hurt both Saints and English football. Astonishing to think that Souness hoovered up half the England squad for Rangers and also for a club like us the carrot of European football not being there removed much of our focus. Gates fell all around the country including Saints. When the good times came back round again, there had been an appalling lack of vision and drive at the boardroom level and we were stuck in a decaying Dell with Askham and assorted idiots. The place needed investment which it has only recently has with Markus and NC.

 

Branfoot was a disaster - think of the ageing players we paid up contracts on - Dixon, Speedie, Hurlock etc. Monkou was his only decent buy in 3 years. That ZDS Final was a good day out but I wish we hadn't had it as it kept Branfoot in the job much longer. Thank God Bally and Lawrie came back and lifted the place 100%.

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I remember at the time wanting Redknapp to get the job and couldnt understand why he didnt get it. He had done really well at Bournemouth and he had declared his interest in the position at Saints. Our history could have been so much different had we got Harry and not given the job to Branfoot.

 

Towards the end of Nicholl's reign in charge we did start to play some exciting football due to the talented youngsters coming through our youth system (Wallace, Shearer, Le Tissier). Expectation levels had been raised so high though by the Mcmenemy era that Saints fans had a genuine belief and desire that we should be challenging for major silverware. It is because of those expectations that nobody was really that upset when Nicholl left and we presumed better times would come.

 

Branfoot was not a popular choice from the beginning however and he went onto become the most hated manager in the history of the club........ with good reason

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We had the best attack in the first division at the time. But things did start to go stale. Fans patience became stretched and people vocally wanted change. The bran foot era was shocking although taken too far by one fanzine on the march who made a terrible mistake with one issue. The ugly back then was great and i still have most of mine. Hard to believe so long ago.

 

think it did the job though? After that publicity etc. his position became untenable, obviously along with the SISA action too.

Fanzines can never take it too far, thats their job!

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For me, his biggest sin was getting rid of Jimmy Case, one of our best ever midfielders. He told Jimmy that he wouldn't fit in to his style of football. How right that was.

 

Who did he replace him with? Terry Hurlock. We used to take bets on when in the match he'd get his yellow card.

 

Showing Jimmy Case the door was one of the first things Branfoot did and it went downhill from there. Even if Case was in his mid 30s he was still one of the best midfielders in the league at that time. Then he signed Dixon and Speedie for £1m (hell of a lot back then) and were both of them released on frees within a year? Ken Monkou was the only signing he got right.

 

It was also significant as this was a rare occasion when SISA got something right, I seem to remember they had a key role in starting the Branfoot protests that eventually ousted him

Edited by JackFrost
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... Chris Nicholl was sacked, replaced by the football genius Br*nf**t. Saints only had 3 managers in previous 36 years before Nicholl's sacking, but since then they've sacked and hired God knows how many managers over the last 20 years.

 

A lot of fans were happy to see him go, but I thought he did a pretty decent job, and we had a bloody exciting team under him (albeit with a very dodgy defence).

 

sad ..then we almost had 36 managers in 3 years ...!

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It is easy to be wise with hindsight. But a manager who came in to the club in say 2001 and produced anything like Nichol's record over 6 years - good cup runs, no serious relegation battles - would have been regarded as a god. Let's not forget either that he was our last manager to achieve league wins at Old Trafford and Highbury.

 

Nicholl's problem was that he was in charge at a time when football was changing profoundly. We had just seen the rules changed so that home teams kept all their gate receipts instead of sharing them with the away side. And even before the advent of SKY, live television was starting to concentrate the money into the hands of the chosen few. Saints were not picked for a single live league game, home or away, between 1984 and 2001. At the time I worked out that Liverpool, on TV all the time, were £1 million a season better off than use before a ball was kicked. That seems chickenfeed now. But in 85 a million could make a real difference - Everton signed Lineker from Leicester for £900,000 so in terms of spending power nowadats that's a Torres.

 

I wonder how McMenemy would have fared had he stayed on, working under the changing circumstances? My guess is better than Nicholl but still probably unable to recapture the glory of 80-84.

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It is easy to be wise with hindsight. But a manager who came in to the club in say 2001 and produced anything like Nichol's record over 6 years - good cup runs, no serious relegation battles - would have been regarded as a god. Let's not forget either that he was our last manager to achieve league wins at Old Trafford and Highbury.

 

Nicholl's problem was that he was in charge at a time when football was changing profoundly. We had just seen the rules changed so that home teams kept all their gate receipts instead of sharing them with the away side. And even before the advent of SKY, live television was starting to concentrate the money into the hands of the chosen few. Saints were not picked for a single live league game, home or away, between 1984 and 2001. At the time I worked out that Liverpool, on TV all the time, were £1 million a season better off than use before a ball was kicked. That seems chickenfeed now. But in 85 a million could make a real difference - Everton signed Lineker from Leicester for £900,000 so in terms of spending power nowadats that's a Torres.

 

I wonder how McMenemy would have fared had he stayed on, working under the changing circumstances? My guess is better than Nicholl but still probably unable to recapture the glory of 80-84.

 

Eh? Or do you mean 1991?

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Nicholl's biggest problem in the end was 89-90, a terrific entertaining season, which when followed by a disappointing 90-91 meant that most fans thought it was time for a change.

 

Having said that, they wouldn't have said it was time for a change if they'd known what that clown Askham would come up with next!

That was the start of the managerial instability and fan power, all kicked off by one appointment of Branfoot...

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After watching that Matt Le Tiss programme on ESPN the other day I was thinking that CN never gets the credit he deserves for giving Le Tiss a chance in the game at a time when many managers were long-ball, work ethic merchants who would have had him on the first boat back to Guernsey. Thinking about what football was like in the mid/late 80's it was extremely brave of CN to keep putting a skinny, somewhat lazy teenager in the team even when we were battling relegation. Granted Le Tiss was an exceptional talent of course but we would never have got to enjoy it without CN taking huge risks and going against the footballing ethos of the time.

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I've been trying to come up with the complete list of managers that we have had in those 20 years:

 

Ian Branfoot

Alan Ball

Dave Merrington

Graham Souness

Dave Jones

Glen Hoddle

Stuart Gray

Gordon Strachen

Steve Wigley

Harry Rednapp

Dave Bassett

George Burley

Jason Dodd / John Gorman

Nigel Pearson

Jan Poortvliet

Mark Woote

Alan Pardew

Nigel Adkins

 

I make that 18 in total (if you count Dodd/Gorman together). Did I forget anyone?

 

Didnt Dennis Wise co-caretake with Dave Bassett?

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Think the 19 odd managers in 20 years is symptomatic of a couple of things, including the boards mistakes... but we are not alone in 'panic' stakes - managers that are dumped early simply because the financial stakes have become so much higher - the cavern of top flight relegation and the potential loss of 50%+ of the revenues has everyone jumpy - depsite the cliches of 'stability, loyalty and time - personified by Ferguson at Man U, those clubs have the luxury of size/wealth to be able to afford a greater degree of stabilty (which is why Abramovic at Chelski seems to be making very odd decsions ) but for most its teh panic that drive it... and when clubs do stick it out and still get relegated (see Avram at West Ham), if simply adds fuel to the argument that its better to try something new quickly - if skirting with relegation by CHristmas, new manager etc becomes the mantra - divides fan opinion for sure. In Lawrie's day, teh club could afford to have the loyalty sown towards a bright young manager, even when relegated to div 2, simply because the finances were not that different, and couls afford the luxury of a long term investment in someone who had obvious potential. Not something any club does today, unless happy mid table in the lower leagues... real shame, as its no coincidence that our period of greatest success came with stabilty and by giving a young manager time to build his side even with a relegation thrown in..... that and the ability to attract players of higher quality as wage demands were more realistic.

 

I think Adkins probably has 2 seasons to get us promoted to the prem, maybe even included in his contract, with extra clauses on what resources will be availble in that time... but If he does not deliver, I suspect we would also see new blood... who knows, as we have not seen how NC will react if targets are not met yet (Pards sacking, had little to do witrh results IMHO, unless he had agreed to promotion/playoff target in that first season and failed...)

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I remember it well

 

I'm sure all old Saints fans will remember that Ron Atkinson, who had just won promotion and the League Cup with Sheffield Wednesday, was our Number 1 target

Good manager and played football that we loved to see, but he stayed at Wednesday

 

How we ended up with Branfoot instead is beyond me

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... Chris Nicholl was sacked, replaced by the football genius Br*nf**t. Saints only had 3 managers in previous 36 years before Nicholl's sacking, but since then they've sacked and hired God knows how many managers over the last 20 years.

 

A lot of fans were happy to see him go, but I thought he did a pretty decent job, and we had a bloody exciting team under him (albeit with a very dodgy defence).

 

yes that was a poor season, and we finished 14th . Our 58 league goals were better than some of the teams in the top 10

but conceding 69 gave us the second worse defence in the league.

 

MLT got 19 goals (thank goodness)..but the budding Alan Shearer managed only 4 (!) from 34 starts.

A year later he, and goalie Tim Flowers were on their way to Blackburn, and later Jeff Kenna, too.

 

Rod Wallace was sold to Leeds for £1 million (a lot then), but the saddest move was Branfoot's sacking of Jimmy Case (then ONLY 37) ..mainly I suspect because Jim was the only sensible voice in the dressing room and made Branfoot look the idi*t he was.

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I remember it well and cant believe it was 20 years ago.

 

CN suffered because he followed Lawrie, in hindsight he should not of gone.I wanted him to leave as I thought at the time (wrongly as it turned out) that he wasn't quite up to it. I was told by a local media man that my Dad knew well, that Lawrie had recommended Branfoot to the board, but dont know how true that was. My choice at the time was Harry Redknapp, who had done great things at Boscombe, and was yet to move to West Ham.

 

That said I wouldn't have missed the Branfoot era, in a strange sort of way I enjoyed it. Some of the football was dire, but the "Branfoot out" campaign brought some good banter and camaraderie amongst the support. Not to mention the Newcastle game and Barry Horne's Bolton double, but the best thing about the whole Branfoot era was when Bally walked back into the club, and built the side around Matt.

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I remember it well

 

I'm sure all old Saints fans will remember that Ron Atkinson, who had just won promotion and the League Cup with Sheffield Wednesday, was our Number 1 target

Good manager and played football that we loved to see, but he stayed at Wednesday

 

How we ended up with Branfoot instead is beyond me

 

Big Ron and Dalgleish were supposed to be in the frame. A fansweb at that time would have been. :scared:

 

I remember turning up at the County Ground and someone called out "Have you heard about Saints new manager?" When they told me who it was I was completely underwhelmed and agreed to resume playing Saturday footy again. I worked with a Reading fan who had told me how they had resorted to demonstrations and pitch invasions to get him sacked from there.

 

Sound familiar?

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I remember at the time wanting Redknapp to get the job and couldnt understand why he didnt get it. He had done really well at Bournemouth and he had declared his interest in the position at Saints. Our history could have been so much different had we got Harry and not given the job to Branfoot.

 

Towards the end of Nicholl's reign in charge we did start to play some exciting football due to the talented youngsters coming through our youth system (Wallace, Shearer, Le Tissier). Expectation levels had been raised so high though by the Mcmenemy era that Saints fans had a genuine belief and desire that we should be challenging for major silverware. It is because of those expectations that nobody was really that upset when Nicholl left and we presumed better times would come.

 

Branfoot was not a popular choice from the beginning however and he went onto become the most hated manager in the history of the club........ with good reason

 

I think you'll find he comes 2nd to Redkrap in most peoples eyes.

 

At least Branfart seemed to care - it's just his idea of how to play football didn't tally with 99.9% of the fans ideas.

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And didn't Lew Chatterley take control of one match between Branfoot leaving and Bally coming in ? Port Vale in an FA Cup replay from recollection.

 

That was the game tommy widdrington almost cut one of their players in half with a waist high challenge. Branfoots last game in the home leg v port vale was woefull..apart from dave beasant running to conrfont bernie slaven ( can't remember why) and slaven ran away with beasant giving chase , hilarious!

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