Stadium Developments

[BristolSaint]

Are there any plans to expand SMS now that Saints are backing in the Championship. I am sure there will be a number of games that will sell-out this season and with the potential of getting back to the premiership it would be nice to think there are plans in the pipeline?

[saintscottofthenortham]

Are there any plans to expand SMS now that Saints are backing in the Championship. I am sure there will be a number of games that will sell-out this season and with the potential of getting back to the premiership it would be nice to think there are plans in the pipeline?

 

Average attendance of around 23,000 last year.

 

Probably average 26-28,000 this year, dependant on what sort of season we have.

 

Championship isn't premiership.

 

In short... No.

[Thedelldays]

Christ, really?

[BristolSaint]

I can see the potential for 9-10 homes games selling out. Correct Championship isnt premiership but it is in the plans to be back in the premiership in the next 2-5 years. I just wondered if the expansion of SMS was also in the plans

[Berkshire Saint]

Why are people so obsessed with expanding the stadium? 32,000 is about right for us, we never averaged above about 24,000 last time we were in the Championship with maybe one or two sell outs/near sell-outs a season.

[Hatch]

of course there are plans, I bet there are plans to reduce it as well, and plans to re-locate.

[BristolSaint]

not an obsession, just wondering. Anyway Saints last visit to the Championship was on the donward spiral from the glory days of premiership football, much darker days with Lowe still in charge, not an exciting squad with potential that could actually have a chance of getting to the playoffs!

[Mattio]

 

This is the plan if we go up it's going to increase St. Marys to 36,000 seats and cost €57M

Edited 21 June, 2011 by Mattio

[The9]

If there's no petting zoo I'm boycotting.

 

Every time I see that video my brain starts screaming "EXTENSION, FFS, and capitalise, and by all means use the apostrophe". But it's my burden.

[Third Division South Days]

 

This is the plan if we go up it's going to increase St. Marys to 36,000 seats and cost €57M

 

Based on those figures I wouldn't think an extention would be a goer. An increase of 3800 seats costing £57m works out at £15000 per seat. If you could generate income of £500 per seat per season it would take 30 years before breaking even. I think SMS was built at a cost of £1000 per seat.

[Mattio]

Yeh but it looks nice!

[Fowllyd]

If there's no petting zoo I'm boycotting.

 

Every time I see that video my brain starts screaming "EXTENSION, FFS, and capitalise, and by all means use the apostrophe". But it's my burden.

 

Believe me, I share your pain.

[niceandfriendly]

 

This is the plan if we go up it's going to increase St. Marys to 36,000 seats and cost €57M

 

Nah, that was made by a student as a project. They can't expand on the Itchen Stand anyway.

[Big Bad Bob]

Based on those figures I wouldn't think an extention would be a goer. An increase of 3800 seats costing £57m works out at £15000 per seat. If you could generate income of £500 per seat per season it would take 30 years before breaking even. I think SMS was built at a cost of £1000 per seat.

 

Exactly what I was thinking

 

Yeh but it looks nice!

 

Looks more like the Reebok than anything else

[The9]

I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be the figures now anyway, and lets face it, extending to anything under the 40k which would make the stadium eligible for hosting a Euros if England got one would be pretty pointless. You'll note I'm not suggesting a World Cup.

 

As for "you can't extend the Itchen", I'm sure Man U and Villa fans thought they couldn't extend their "office" stands with roads behind them at one point too. It's not near enough to the river (yet) for that to be a problem either, and Britannia Road isn't much of a thoroughfare anyway.

[aintforever]

I think we spent 4 years in the championship and only sold out once. Dumb thread.

[Scummer]

As for "you can't extend the Itchen", I'm sure Man U and Villa fans thought they couldn't extend their "office" stands with roads behind them at one point too. It's not near enough to the river (yet) for that to be a problem either, and Britannia Road isn't much of a thoroughfare anyway.

 

I think it's more to do with the weight on the foundations. When they built St Mary's the archeological dig showed lots of artifacts a short distance below the ground. Most of them are still there, and the depth of the foundations was reduced to avoid damaging them. Those foundations wouldn't be able to cope with additional weight on the Itchen Stand. That's how it was reported at the time, anyway.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

we hardly ever sold out in the championship before we were relegated. what makes you think we will now?

[Prince Jazzbo]

Being a little controversial. Even in the Premiership 32000 was and will be adequate in terms of capacity. We tended to average about 29-31k with the big games selling out, which is still very good compared to many others. Any increase would just result in empty seats in my opinion. Also, whilst a lot on here site the fact that we took 40k+ to Wembley, I reckon at least 10K of them went for the day out. I knew people that went to that game that never go to St Marys and one or two that don’t even like football! If we based any expansion of St Marys on that then why didn’t AFC Totton build their new ground to hold 10k, as they to something like that to Wembley when they played there.

 

In short 32k is and will be enough for many years to come, even in the Premiership.

[STEVEADAMS]

Think we could easily fill a bigger ground in PL. We sold out nearly every game when there and any empty seats were I believe only because of logistics and not unable to sell seats. With our rise back to the top we are again picking up new fans and also once again igniting the spark in the young ones. I would love to see us in a nice new 45 k stadium personally, the club IS big enough for it, if the will and the money is there to build or expand.

[Saints foreva]

Average attendance of around 23,000 last year.

 

Probably average 26-28,000 this year, dependant on what sort of season we have.

QUOTE]

 

Not a chance unless we walk the league.

 

If I remember correctly, our play off season our average attendance was something poor like 23,000.

[Avenue Saint]

If we make prem, we WILL fill a 45k stadium!

 

And if we have potential needed gor that why not future proof it and stick on an extra 5k and round it off to 50k!?

 

Mist of the current teams planning extensions and moves are targeting the 50k mark a la everton and co. We don't want to be left behind.

 

So to conclude we would sell out 50k in a successful season playing against the utds, arsenals and co and would top 40 for other games.

 

Watch this space

[Lighthouse]

If we make prem, we WILL fill a 45k stadium!

 

And if we have potential needed gor that why not future proof it and stick on an extra 5k and round it off to 50k!?

 

Mist of the current teams planning extensions and moves are targeting the 50k mark a la everton and co. We don't want to be left behind.

 

So to conclude we would sell out 50k in a successful season playing against the utds, arsenals and co and would top 40 for other games.

 

Watch this space

 

This!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is wrong.

[Turkish]

We will need around 80,000 when we get back to the PL so i think we'll probably need about 45-50k now, i think work will start next summer once we sell out every game this season had have a 10 year waiting list for sesaon tickets.

[ssaints]

This debate is had every two weeks in the closed season. Two points:

 

1) it is pointless and

2) nobody has a clue on likely premiership attendances

[Turkish]

This debate is had every two weeks in the closed season. Two points:

 

1) it is pointless and

2) nobody has a clue on likely premiership attendances

 

Except that we wont average 45k or get 50k for Man United and Chelsea etc, unless we give them 15k tickets.

[ssaints]

Except that we wont average 45k or get 50k for Man United and Chelsea etc, unless we give them 15k tickets.

 

Agreed.

[sambosa75]

Are there any plans to expand SMS now that Saints are backing in the Championship. I am sure there will be a number of games that will sell-out this season and with the potential of getting back to the premiership it would be nice to think there are plans in the pipeline?

 

Is that you Deppo?

[alehouseboys]

Why are people so obsessed with expanding the stadium? 32,000 is about right for us, we never averaged above about 24,000 last time we were in the Championship with maybe one or two sell outs/near sell-outs a season.

 

I think we spent 4 years in the championship and only sold out once. Dumb thread.

 

Difference being we were then on a rapid downward spiral, fans were generally disillussioned and Lowe returning compounded it.

 

If everything goes to plan and we can eventually re-establish ourselves in the Prem then I would say a capacity around 40k would be realistic.

Whether it's cost effective or not remains to be seen, the only way I could see it would be to build a tier above the Kingsland with more corporate/banqueting suites between. That would potentially generate more income than seats alone.

 

Something for 'down the line' but it's little secret that expansion of some sort has already been discussed in the boardroom.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Comparisons with our last seasons in the Championship are flawed. People were used to Premiership football, so it was a step down. People were ****ed off with Lowe and there was a dark cloud hanging over the club.

 

The club now has a feel good factor, is on the up and we'll soon be the South's top club again. With a sensible pricing policy, a large away contigent, 42,000 is realistic, IMHO.

[Avenue Saint]

Except that we wont average 45k or get 50k for Man United and Chelsea etc, unless we give them 15k tickets.

 

If we had it your way you would probably have us downsize when we get to the prem...

 

Twerp

[The Cat]

When we're winning countless Premiership titles and routinely hammering Barcelona in Champions League finals every year we'll need a stadium so big that it will be impossible to build one large enough to host all our fans.

 

Therefore I suggest we build two expandable 100,000 state of the art seater stadiums on the same site and play half in one before a quick nip across the car park to play the second half in the other. While the alternate halves are being played the supporters in the stadiums without 'live' football can watch the match on individual tv monitors that flip out from the back of the seat in front.

 

Season tickets would be hard to price, however I suggest the fans in the second half stadium would have to pay more because they get to see the end of the game and join in the celebrations as we march to another easy 3 points. The first-half stadium could be allocated to the people that bugger off on 80 minutes to beat the traffic because they clearly aren't bothered about seeing what happens at the end of the match as it is.

 

This two stadium idea would also solve the problem of people compaining about others going down early/coming back up late from half time food and drink.

 

The away fans could be transported from one stadium to the other by underground tunnel, although I doubt we'd see many of them as over the years they would have all got fed up with routinely seeing their teams get spanked 15-0 by us.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Average attendance of around 23,000 last year.

 

Probably average 26-28,000 this year, dependant on what sort of season we have.

QUOTE]

 

Not a chance unless we walk the league.

 

If I remember correctly, our play off season our average attendance was something poor like 23,000.

 

Yep, and we averaged that with a good season in League One! The point is, if we are doing well we will see higher attendances, hence my predictions.

[paris]

Any painting work going on this close season at SMS or ANY other works to that matter ??

[The9]

I think it's more to do with the weight on the foundations. When they built St Mary's the archeological dig showed lots of artifacts a short distance below the ground. Most of them are still there, and the depth of the foundations was reduced to avoid damaging them. Those foundations wouldn't be able to cope with additional weight on the Itchen Stand. That's how it was reported at the time, anyway.

 

Cheers, not being local at the time I had no idea about this.

 

Having reflected on it for about 5 minutes, I'm sure they could design something so that the Itchen was suspended by an extended Kingsland across the pitch where the foundations woudn't be an issue, more complex things have been achieved.

Edited 21 June, 2011 by The9

[Hatch]

Staplewood would need to be redeveloped for at least a 10k - 15k ground, so those who can't get to games can watch the training.

[Turkish]

Staplewood would need to be redeveloped for at least a 10k - 15k ground, so those who can't get to games can watch the training.

 

Why so small? Barcelona have been known get 50k watch training.

[Tamesaint]

This debate is had every two weeks in the closed season. Two points:

 

1) it is pointless and

2) nobody has a clue on likely premiership attendances

 

I have no idea why the antis on this thread are so vehement about this idea. The fact that this topic keeps coming up so often shows how real this issue is. Nowadays larger grounds and expansion are the name of the game. Even Wolves are expanding this summer.

 

The feel good factor is coming back to St Marys and I confidently expect crowds to average over 25k next season with a few games selling out completely. We cannot be content to sit back and assume that our 32k stadium is going to be big enough once we get back into the prem. If we do, we will find that in the same way as the Dell held us back in previous decades, SMS will impede our advancement in the future. We will need a stadium holding 40k+ and if SMS cannot be expanded (I was told that it could be enlarged relatively easily to 48k) we will need to find a stadium that will be big enough.

[Wes Tender]

Comparisons with our last seasons in the Championship are flawed. People were used to Premiership football, so it was a step down. People were ****ed off with Lowe and there was a dark cloud hanging over the club.

 

The club now has a feel good factor, is on the up and we'll soon be the South's top club again. With a sensible pricing policy, a large away contigent, 42,000 is realistic, IMHO.

 

I agree. Apart from the Lowe factor, the way that the club was run meant that every time we identified a rising talent, we had to sell them to keep afloat or pay a dividend. If we are capable of a Premiership position within the top eight, bringing through talented youngsters via our academy and able to keep them, bringing in the odd big name player, winning matches against the glory teams as often as we lose to them, then we could have the potential to attract the crowds from a good and increased catchment area.

[Junction 9]

Being a little controversial. Even in the Premiership 32000 was and will be adequate in terms of capacity. We tended to average about 29-31k with the big games selling out, which is still very good compared to many others. Any increase would just result in empty seats in my opinion. Also, whilst a lot on here site the fact that we took 40k+ to Wembley, I reckon at least 10K of them went for the day out. I knew people that went to that game that never go to St Marys and one or two that don’t even like football! If we based any expansion of St Marys on that then why didn’t AFC Totton build their new ground to hold 10k, as they to something like that to Wembley when they played there.

 

In short 32k is and will be enough for many years to come, even in the Premiership.

 

It's not controversial, it's exactly right. You can't tell people on here though as they are desperate to have the new Emirates built asap.

As for all this getting "left behind" nonsense. Even if we did fill 40K every week you'd be looking at around £5 million a season in extra revenue over and above a current sell out at the current capacity. Hardly a sum that pushes us on to Champions league status is it? It's one average PL player.

If the likes of Stoke, Fulham, Wigan, Blakburn can compete with their stadia then so can we, this all pie in the sky.

[70's Mike]

Good job alot of you were around in the 60's and 70's and there was no internet you would have had a field day with "was the Dell to small"

i did not like Rupert but he was right they built SMS now we have to fill it"

Unless we are near the top I cannot see us averaging more than 25K at Championship prices, even when the away side sales out 27k will be good.

Skates being exception

[RedAndWhite91]

This is the plan if we go up it's going to increase St. Marys to 36,000 seats and cost €57M

 

No it's not.

[Block 5]

I think it's more to do with the weight on the foundations. When they built St Mary's the archeological dig showed lots of artifacts a short distance below the ground. Most of them are still there, and the depth of the foundations was reduced to avoid damaging them. Those foundations wouldn't be able to cope with additional weight on the Itchen Stand. That's how it was reported at the time, anyway.

 

[CB Fry]

Difference being we were then on a rapid downward spiral, fans were generally disillussioned and Lowe returning compounded it.

 

If everything goes to plan and we can eventually re-establish ourselves in the Prem then I would say a capacity around 40k would be realistic.

Whether it's cost effective or not remains to be seen, the only way I could see it would be to build a tier above the Kingsland with more corporate/banqueting suites between. That would potentially generate more income than seats alone.

 

Something for 'down the line' but it's little secret that expansion of some sort has already been discussed in the boardroom.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but we didn't even sell out for our play off semi final. How is that a "downward spiral" exactly?

 

32,000 is perfectly adequate in the championship and in the Premier League no problem. As the sensible contributors have already saifd, everything else is pie in the sky.

[Dalek2003]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we didn't even sell out for our play off semi final. How is that a "downward spiral" exactly?

 

32,000 is perfectly adequate in the championship and in the Premier League no problem. As the sensible contributors have already saifd, everything else is pie in the sky.

 

I agree for once. In fact if we are really successful in the future it might be cheaper to move to a complete new stadium.

[Matthew Le God]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we didn't even sell out for our play off semi final. How is that a "downward spiral" exactly?

 

32,000 is perfectly adequate in the championship and in the Premier League no problem. As the sensible contributors have already saifd, everything else is pie in the sky.

 

Saints averaged 30k+ in all four seasons in the Premier League at St Mary's, including the relegation season.

 

In none of those seasons did the board do anything that would particularly captivate the fanbase to help raise attendances. If Cortese put the structures in place to provide the city with a strong team, Saints will need a much bigger stadium than 32k.

 

(p.s. I noticed Blackpool got relegated even though you were adamant that they wouldn't )

[Turkish]

Saints averaged 30k+ in all four seasons in the Premier League at St Mary's, including the relegation season.

 

In none of those seasons did the board do anything that would particularly captivate the fanbase to help raise attendances. If Cortese put the structures in place to provide the city with a strong team, Saints will need a much bigger stadium than 32k.

 

(p.s. I noticed Blackpool got relegated even though you were adamant that they wouldn't )

 

 

Apart from reach our first FA Cup final in 27 years and have our highest finish in top flight football since 1990.

[Matthew Le God]

Apart from reach our first FA Cup final in 27 years and have our highest finish in top flight football since 1990.

 

That season saw an average of 31,699, clearly showing demand outstripped supply and St Mary's was too small! Had it been bigger more would have gone to a large number of those games. The club could have sold a lot more than 32k for Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Liverpool, Chelsea etc games.

 

It was also not achieved by investment in the club at board level as I indicated. More down to good management on Strachan's part on a very tight budget.

 

If Strachan had Cortese/Liebherr behind him in 2002/03 instead of Lowe, imagine what could have been achieved and how high ticket demand could have been!?

Edited 21 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Saint Fan CaM]

There is a very real potential for us to fill a 45k stadium in about 10 years time. That's the minimum amount of time it will take for us to fulfill Markus' grand plan and be eating at footballs top table regularly. If everything comes together as expected, this club will easily be able to compete in every conceivable way with the top 10 clubs in Europe - a stadium with a capacity of anything less than 45k will not fit in with those plans. Believe me - in ten years there will be waiting lists again too (perhaps not a bad thing) which is why I will never give up my ST.

[Turkish]

Here we go people, last seasons attendances in the PL. For those of you that think we are going to get 45k average crowd and 50k in some cases one look at this should give you deluded clowns a dose of reality. 50k would ive us the 4th highest crowd in England and a 45k average would make us have bigger crowds than Liverpool, Chelsea, Aston Villa and Tottenham, all far bigger clubs than we are. Now please can you all shut the f*ck up about us getting crowds of 50k, anyone that thinks we are the 4th best supported club in England is f*cking mental.

 

http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html