Southampton 0 - 2 Wigan - Post Match Reaction

[View From The Top]

4-3-3, which look far too much like 4-5-1 to me, wastes JR.

 

Pointless buying a player like that then sticking him out wide. We haven't the players with pace to play 4-3-3. We are far to ponderous getting forward.

 

All in all it was pretty gash today but my nipper got to stand up for 90mins & sing so he's happy.

[BlakeySFC]

Thought we were unlucky not to get a draw, Wigan had 2 clear-cut chances and took them.

 

Just wasn't our day, you have them in any division, just look at Leicester at home in January last season? Bristol City home/away last season, Rochdale home/Walsall away 2010/11 season.

 

Just wasn't our day at the office, thought we showed more than enough for this division in the first half, keep the faith, We've still got 36 GAMES to go!!

[View From The Top]

Why? We were 1-0 down after an hour and not looking threatening. If the players are f****** off them maybe they need to ask themselves why for 2/3rd of the game they threatened little with the formation they seem to prefer.

 

When we went 4-4-2 they simply over ran us & the wide players tucked too far in giving us no width.

 

We need pace desperately & we've all known this all summer.

[The Kraken]

4-3-3, which look far too much like 4-5-1 to me, wastes JR.

 

Pointless buying a player like that then sticking him out wide. We haven't the players with pace to play 4-3-3. We are far to ponderous getting forward.

 

This exactly. Guly is no right winger, J-Rod is no left winger, our players do not fit our shape. We need to either find some that do or find a shape that fits our players.

[THEVMAN]

I just dont think 4-4-2 fits in with the Premier way for some reason,we will all have to be abit patient

[sfc4prem]

The transition period is always the hardest part of a new formation. Bring in the personnel and the four-three-three is do-able.

[itchen_dan]

I think it would help massively by bringing in someone like Matt Phillips or Gaston Ramirez as these are players who are used to playing the relevant roles in the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 formation. They can instantly come in, do their job, without a huge amount of training. This would be highly beneficial to the current crop as the new players natural movement and positioning will give the rest of the team a solid structure and alot of guidance.

 

The transition will take time but nothing better than doing it against some tough teams that will help the team with discipline and keeping the shape.

[CanadaSaint]

This exactly. Guly is no right winger, J-Rod is no left winger, our players do not fit our shape. We need to either find some that do or find a shape that fits our players.

 

One of the possible answers would not endear Adkins to the fans one little bit, and it's an answer that makes me feel a bit pukey.

 

Leave Rickie on the bench.

 

Someone said that Nigel wasn't very brave today, but that's a whole new level of bravery for which he would also be criticized.

[wild-saint]

really liked davis in the midfield today. looks a tidy player. think we have the basis of a decent side that will all come together nicely with the right additions next week. although if we dont my money is firmly on relegation. but of course nc wouldnt be stupid / stubborn enough not to loosen the purse strings would he?

[IOWSaintDaz]

Should of signed Michu 3 goals in 2 games £2 million quid = bargain which looks better value than the £7 million we payed for Jay Rodriguez even though he is being played out of position

[View From The Top]

Should of signed Michu 3 goals in 2 games £2 million quid = bargain which looks better value than the £7 million we payed for Jay Rodriguez even though he is being played out of position

 

But we didn't so no point in playing "what if"?

[Elmore]

I blame Mark Lawrenson.

[Mowgli]

But we didn't so no point in playing "what if"?

 

This. We are on a learning curve and today was a massive lesson. Let's hope we learn from it

[Tractor_Saint]

Was it just me or was anyone else impressed with the quality of the grass today?

 

[shurlock]

What you reckon Rodrigues role is this season? You reckon we told him when signing he'd be left wing back?

 

Yeh, exactly.

 

That said, he didn't see much of the ball. A similar story in pre-season. We do seem to attack predominantly down the right for whatever reason. Hopefully Rodriguez starts Tuesday in his preferred position and has a chance to shine. Dont think Lambert is a shoe-in up top -he didn't do a great deal today, even if he remains a sacred cow for many.

Even if he was, hard to see the two clicking as a central pairing. Thought he was an odd signing in the summer and nothing's changed my mind. Or maybe Lambert and Rodriguez can play together?

Edited 25 August, 2012 by shurlock

[DrunkenSaint]

Just watched Swansea on motd, thats how u play 433/451 Na take note, drop Guly drop Rod and get 2 proper wingers in. lee can play left but really need a right sided with pace, flair and the ability to cross.

[Graffito]

Yeh, exactly.

 

That said, he didn't see much of the ball. A similar story in pre-season. We do seem to attack predominantly down the right for whatever reason. Hopefully Rodriguez starts Tuesday in his preferred position and has a chance to shine. Dont think Lambert is a shoe-in up top -he didn't do a great deal today, even if he remains a sacred cow for many.

Even if he was, hard to see the two clicking as a central pairing. Thought he was an odd signing in the summer and nothing's changed my mind. Or maybe Lambert and Rodriguez can play together?

 

They could but they need to play close together.

[pingwing]

Can we silt our wrists now?? We should have been out of sight at 35 mins and instead let them have their 2 chances.... Rodriguez isnt a left winger and it shows!!!

 

Play lallana there, sod 3 in the middle and have rod upfront where he sta ds a change of not looking like an utter waste of 7m

 

Davis looks good if not 100% fit.

 

Still gutted as they are a regation to the extreme

[colehillsaint]

The only good things to come out of today's game were an early clarification of where we are with this league, and I met some bloke called Phil from Dubai who turned up and sat right behind me!

[Dig Dig]

As has been said on here already, too many square pegs in round holes at the moment. We don't quite have the personnel for 433.

 

On the plus side, we created enough chances. Conceding the first goal killed the game

[SaintBobby]

I didn't think we were too bad, tbh.

 

Utterly sh1te result, obviously.

 

But a just about okay-ish performance.

 

On another day, with the same balance of play we wld have won that 1-0 or 2-0.

 

No need to panic (yet!)

 

Agree with those asking (a) what are we doing with Jay Rodriguez and (b) how do we get some pace on the pitch?

[Griffo]

Was it just me or was anyone else impressed with the quality of the grass today?

 

 

No. It's just you.

[Wes Tender]

Our performance today was totally unacceptable. Although we played fairly brightly in the first half, when we went behind, we just didn't seem to be up for it at all. We strolled around the pitch like it was a Sunday afternoon kick about in the park. We dawdled about on the ball as if there was no urgency to try and pull a goal back when the clock was running down, we didn't close them down, allowing them to dictate the pace and we gave away possession too easily. I don't mind losing when our players give 100%, but today they didn't. As others have said, it would be fine if we modelled ourselves on Swansea, but we don't have the pace out wide that they have through the likes of Dyer who is one of our academy products. But neither do we play the ball as fast as they do. Our passing needs to be one or two touch, but instead we pass too often sideways or back and allow the opposition plenty of time to get behind the ball.

 

And typically of Saints, it was a far poorer performance against one of the lower standing teams of the division following an exceptional performance against the champions. Adkins' tactics were criticised in that match by the master tacticians of this forum for him having the temerity to start with Lambert and Davis on the bench. You don't win matches by not starting with your strongest team we were told. Well, we started with arguably our strongest team and the two goals that Lambert and Davis scored against the champions failed to materialise against Wigan. Perhaps we should revert back to bringing them on later.Ward-Prowse when he came on at least showed some desire to put himself about and play for the shirt. A shame that couldn't have been said about some of the players today.

 

Match of the day gave a distorted view of our performance and made us look better than we were.

 

We will probably now falter against Gillingham and smash United.

[Hedgehog]

Once Jack Cork is back then Adam can revert to the left. We have nothing coming from that side. When NA tried it today Adam kept coming back in to the middle. Lambert is also a problem as he keeps dropping back to try and get things going, he was doing this last year, dropping deep where as we need our striker up front. We can not play all three strikers at once, having Lambert, Sharp and Jrod on the pitch can only work if they get the service, but that doesn't happen. If we are thinking of getting a winger in before the close of business, then why didn't Puncheon come on. Swapping Davies for Ward Prowse was never going to be a match winning substitution. The trouble with football now is that after watching Barcelona and Spain play the passing game, every team is trying the same, resulting in boring passing the ball sidewards and backwards!

[the saint in winchester]

 

We will probably now falter against Gillingham and smash United.

 

We're playing Stevenage on Tuesday night.

[the saint in winchester]

Well, we were hopeless today. Only Lallana and Clyne get a pass grade from me. Everyone else, oh dear. But credit to Wigan - they were effective, especially with Maloney man-marking Schneiderlin. Agree that J-Rod is playing out of position and Tadanari needs to play in that position on the left. But overall, we looked a championship side today playing a Prem side. We need to upgrade to Prem players this week and release a few.

[Roger]

Our performance today was totally unacceptable. Although we played fairly brightly in the first half, when we went behind, we just didn't seem to be up for it at all. We strolled around the pitch like it was a Sunday afternoon kick about in the park. We dawdled about on the ball as if there was no urgency to try and pull a goal back when the clock was running down, we didn't close them down, allowing them to dictate the pace and we gave away possession too easily. I don't mind losing when our players give 100%, but today they didn't. As others have said, it would be fine if we modelled ourselves on Swansea, but we don't have the pace out wide that they have through the likes of Dyer who is one of our academy products. But neither do we play the ball as fast as they do. Our passing needs to be one or two touch, but instead we pass too often sideways or back and allow the opposition plenty of time to get behind the ball.

 

And typically of Saints, it was a far poorer performance against one of the lower standing teams of the division following an exceptional performance against the champions. Adkins' tactics were criticised in that match by the master tacticians of this forum for him having the temerity to start with Lambert and Davis on the bench. You don't win matches by not starting with your strongest team we were told. Well, we started with arguably our strongest team and the two goals that Lambert and Davis scored against the champions failed to materialise against Wigan. Perhaps we should revert back to bringing them on later.Ward-Prowse when he came on at least showed some desire to put himself about and play for the shirt. A shame that couldn't have been said about some of the players today.

 

Match of the day gave a distorted view of our performance and made us look better than we were.

 

We will probably now falter against Gillingham and smash United.

 

How u can say that we didn't win because we started lambert Peter is beyond me after last few years. More like Adkins needs to start 442. Also needed to buy a new left back two cb and a quick winger and we didn't. Davis isn't Any better than cork do not sure why we bought him.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Very poor game from the start of the 2nd half onwards really. I don't think it's the formation at fault - it's (a) the overall quality of the players and (b) Adkins got the tactics completely wrong today. As others have said, JayRod on the left is not working and probably never will. Guly had a good 1st half and a shocker of a 2nd.

 

Overall though, we looked like an OK Championship side up against a tough Prem side. Badly need some creativity in attack - far, far too laboured in build-up play. And yes, we really do need to sign some players that are above Championship level to raise the bar or we'll be cut adrift at the bottom well before Xmas.

[Junior Mullet]

We did not get the balance of the team right today. Wigan had weak spots and we didn't take advantage of them. With the squad we currently have I would line up like this (those players I would like to replace with Prem class players are marked with a *):

 

--------------------Davis*-------------------

 

Clyne----Fonte*-------------Jos---------Fox*

 

-------------Davis-----Schneiderlin-----------

 

----Guly*----------------------------Lallana---

-----------------Lambo----------------------

 

-----------------J Rod-----------------------

[St.Patrik]

Ouch just saw the pic of Rooneys injury - we lost a game but still our star player is not injured like that.

[Give it to Ron]

Very poor game from the start of the 2nd half onwards really. I don't think it's the formation at fault - it's (a) the overall quality of the players and (b) Adkins got the tactics completely wrong today. As others have said, JayRod on the left is not working and probably never will. Guly had a good 1st half and a shocker of a 2nd.

 

Overall though, we looked like an OK Championship side up against a tough Prem side. Badly need some creativity in attack - far, far too laboured in build-up play. And yes, we really do need to sign some players that are above Championship level to raise the bar or we'll be cut adrift at the bottom well before Xmas.

 

I agree with that...we played Ok first half until it got to where that mattered and then run out of ideas or ability to execute them.

Everything we did was in front of them and never once got in behind - all our shots were from distance and Premiership keepers like El Habsi will save those.

[Window Cleaner]

really liked davis in the midfield today. looks a tidy player. think we have the basis of a decent side that will all come together nicely with the right additions next week. although if we dont my money is firmly on relegation. but of course nc wouldnt be stupid / stubborn enough not to loosen the purse strings would he?

 

I see Sky were totally unimpressed by him in their ratings though. They gave the MOM to the Wigan keeper. A really decent keeper in this league is like having 2 extra men sometimes, kept them in the match by all accounts and gave them the time they needed to exploit our defensive failings. I am singularly unimpressed by our recruitment so far and whoever is responsable for it needs a big kick up the ass. We didn't really need another striker but we do need at least one CB, a

GK and left back.

[sammysaint]

We did not get the balance of the team right today. Wigan had weak spots and we didn't take advantage of them. With the squad we currently have I would line up like this (those players I would like to replace with Prem class players are marked with a *):

 

--------------------Davis*-------------------

 

Clyne----Fonte*-------------Jos---------Fox*

 

-------------Davis-----Schneiderlin-----------

 

----Guly*----------------------------Lallana---

-----------------Lambo----------------------

 

-----------------J Rod-----------------------

 

Have to agree, but i feel NA is very loyal and wont replace davis yet or fox, i can see him signing a CB and replacing fonte and also a winger better then guly, i think hes gone into this season wanting 433 hoping we would have phillips and rameriez, as that system will work when them 2 are in your team with a striker like Lambo or Jay Rod.

[lordswoodsaints]

Have we got a star player?

[egg]

We did not get the balance of the team right today. Wigan had weak spots and we didn't take advantage of them. With the squad we currently have I would line up like this (those players I would like to replace with Prem class players are marked with a *):

 

--------------------Davis*-------------------

 

Clyne----Fonte*-------------Jos---------Fox*

 

-------------Davis-----Schneiderlin-----------

 

----Guly*----------------------------Lallana---

-----------------Lambo----------------------

 

-----------------J Rod-----------------------

 

I agree. Lambo drops deep and arguably is our most creative player. The "Sheringham" role behind jay, lee or sharp is the only we that we can accommodate him without putting square pegs in round holes or playing an archaic 442. It would be the same system as Everton have been using.

 

On the line up, I think that Puncheon is good enough. That line up with Puncheon in for Guly and a decent CB would be competitive.

Edited 26 August, 2012 by egg
typos

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Have we got a star player?

 

I think we remain a good Championship side but we certainly are not a Premier one. The only significant improvement on last season is the addition of Clyne but we know we need a lot more in other areas. (Can't judge JayRod yet as he is being played out-of-position.)

People on here are saying yesterday was a wake up call but to be frank we shouldn't have needed a wake-up call to know what the Premiership is all about.

Wigan aren't a good side, remember they have just sold their best player, but they handled us with ease once they got our measure. Their finishing was clinical (why does Lallana always want to take that extra touch?), their movement slick and we lacked the guile or skill to cause them too many anxious moments. Come April we may well rue not picking up a point at home against a side who will be relegation rivals. Yes we have 5 days of the window remaining but under the circumstances of us needing to hit the ground running while we bed into a new league, why oh why do we always leave things to the last moment?

Some other observations from yesterday

I thought Guly worked his socks off but he is not a Premiership player - if he was there is no way we would have been able to sign him when we were in League One.

No NC in the Director's box - was he in the crowd? Or maybe chatting a few chairmen up? I hope he has a few rabbits up his sleeve.

Thought Davis had a good first half - tidy and busy.

Their keeper did not play a blinder - all his saves were ones he should have made.

Hooiveld looks really uncomfotable with the ball at his feet but he remains our best defender.

[Whitey Grandad]

Di Santos's goal was the same run as Tevez - diagonally behind the centre-backs who are far too slow to turn. On 60 minutes it was obviously never going to work so why did Adkins leave it so long to make a change? No that it was a change of pace anyway. We never got down the left wing and played at far too slow a tempo. Lots of learning to be done.

[Suomi Saint]

The worrying thing for me was the motivation of the players after going 1-0 down...they showed no real fight. Whether this was because they felt restricted by the game plan or were confused by Nigel's tactics I don't know. The game was so slow and dull at times, it was like watching a park match. Swansea, on the other hand, whip the ball around to make lots of space. Their players are not much better than ours, but they don't plod around like Saints did yesterday. It's early doors, but that performance doesn't bode well. You couldn't really pick out individual players who were terrible, but there was no collective urgency. It may be simply that Nigel is over-complicating things. 3 or 4 new players definitely needed, including a goalkeeper. Kelvin's distribution is not good enough for the Prem. Hoofing it down the left wing is not the way to go.

[rshephard3]

The worry is that you could feasibly find 0 pts from 4 games now, with a poor goal difference potentially. I had to sell my season ticket yesterday to go to a wedding but it seems to me to have been a poor performance/atmosphere/attendance. I honestly didn't see that coming, we were buzzing coming out of the Etihad last weekend!

[sidthesquid]

Things I learnt yesterday -

It is all about retaining the ball in the Prem - I thought we were quite good at it but Wigan gave us an exhibition at times.

Guly (nor Puncheon last week) is not Prem standard.

All of our players, including Adam, Rickie & Morgan, were guilty of giving the ball away cheaply.(At times I felt we could have done with Hammond or Chaplow out there chasing around winning the ball back).

If we are going to persist with this 4-5-1/4-3-3 we desperately need two quality wide men with pace, but I think we knew that already.

Any lapses/errors will be cruelly punished in this division.

On the plus side, Clyne looks a good young player, Rickie looks like he'll cause Prem defences trouble, as does Adam.

And with a bit more luck we could have won today - we created decent chances, we looked good in possession but it wasn't our day. And a goal down and chasing the game against any team in any division has never been easy.

The last week has been a steep learning curve for players and management alike - the weak links have been exposed and there is still time to act.

So, I'm a bit demoralised but keeping the faith.

[Thedelldays]

on a brighter note, we have man united and arsenal next

[beatlesaint]

We have a fantastic Championship squad but we are playing in the Premiership and the problem that lies with this bring in young and hungry players lies in the fact that if they get off to a decent start the confidence will grow. If things dont go their way that confidence will go very quickly. Looking at the next two fixtures I really worry that if we dont bring in 3 or 4 Premiership class players by Friday then we are going to struggle big time.

 

I am disappointed the signings for the dodgy positions have not been made by now. I trust they will be made in the next few days. If we are buying these young players such as Jay Rod can we at least play the poor sod in his best position to at least give him a fighting chance ?

[LGTL]

on a brighter note, we have man united and arsenal next

 

 

I can't see us scoring, let alone winning, until at least October. Happy days!

[Webby]

I also think Lallana is wasted in CM. He's not a CM.

 

He should play on the left of the front 3. Our 3 CM's can be any 3 from Cork, MS, Davis, JWP, and even Chaplow.

 

JRod should play in the middle up front, therefore he is backup to Rickie.

[Thedelldays]

 

I can't see us scoring, let alone winning, until at least October. Happy days!

as expected imo

[Wes Tender]

How u can say that we didn't win because we started lambert Peter is beyond me after last few years. More like Adkins needs to start 442. Also needed to buy a new left back two cb and a quick winger and we didn't. Davis isn't Any better than cork do not sure why we bought him.

 

Roger, I was being sarcastic, as Professor and a couple of others had slated Adkins for not starting "our strongest team" against City. Well, we started with Lambert and Davis this game, but we certainly weren't better in the entire match than we were in the second half against City.

 

I was still irritated when I posted late last night and several posters have identified where we were lacking. I agree with the observation that Lambert came deep attempting to get the ball, but should have stayed upfield. Also that our shape was wrong. Also that we lacked wingers to give us width and speed up the flanks. We played narrow and Wigan dominated the midfield in the second half because they were first to the ball and we were sloppy with our passing. I didn't rate Davis there and expected more intent from him. Hammond is nowhere near as cultured as Davis and not up to Premiership standard, but I'm sure that he would have given more effort, as indeed would Cork had he been fit. Again, I agree that Puncheon might well have offered something different and I'm confident that Lee would also have troubled them if fit enough to bring on as an impact sub.

 

This final week is vital in terms of who we bring in to complete the team until January. But what we have at the moment isn't far away from it, provided that they give more effort and intent.

[The Kraken]

Wes, there was a stat that Morgan covered more ground yesterday than any other player in the league. So he put in a shift.

 

I don't agree it's just a lack of effort we're missing out on. It's a lack of creative play, it's a lack of stretching the play, and it's a lack of ability to change play and do something different IMO.

[Thedelldays]

on a plus side...rooney is missing next week.

will just have to keep, RvP, Welbec, Kagawa, Valencia quite....and mark Vidic for set pieces..

 

easy

 

and the week after, well, wenger has lost it, so just kick cazrola and podolski out of the game and BINGO

[Chez]

Some positives:

Clyne looks a very good player. Pace is essential and he has it in abundance. Richardson often dived in and failed to get there, Clyne seems to have much better judgement on distances.

Davis is tidy. He faded a little, perhaps through lack of fitness, but he knows what he is doing. We look OK down the middle.

Lallana can do it at this level too. What a player. Don't let him take corners though.

Morgan can also do it at this level, but then again I thought that two years ago.

We ran the game in the first half. The goal totally changed the game.

[Webby]

Wes, there was a stat that Morgan covered more ground yesterday than any other player in the league. So he put in a shift.

 

I don't agree it's just a lack of effort we're missing out on. It's a lack of creative play, it's a lack of stretching the play, and it's a lack of ability to change play and do something different IMO.

I concur, but I'd love to know Guly's stats, cos I feel he covered a lot of ground too. I bet someone like Scholes covers less ground than Morgan but does much more with the ball. At the moment, I'm failing to see what's so great about him (Morgan).