Post-Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-2 Liverpool

[Window Cleaner]

It's not just Liverpool fans that I've been hearing sarky comments from today, it's everyone. They all seem to think we got what we deserved.

Totally gutted and completely deflated. I'm pretty sure the players saw the ref was giving us nothing and it affected our game. Worst result of the season.

Hate Rodgers so much.

 

We did get what we deserved, when you can't score(because you've not got an alternative striker even though you sold players for 90 odd million last summer) then you can only blame yourselves. Pellè isn't that good, we got what we paid for, an 8 million £ Dutch league goleador and we wasted 12 milion on Long. We had the money we could have got better. Then again it's just my opinion. I too was hacked off by yesterday's showing all huff and puff and no end product.

Edited 23 February, 2015 by Window Cleaner

[VectisSaint]

You need to see the replays of that - not far off being a straight Red. High and late and very intentional (to stop JWP progress).

Give you that having watched the replay. Live it looked soft, and it still was not as bad as many that went unpunished. Still as I said Lovren deserved to be booked anyway for being a cock.

[VectisSaint]

Sorry, but I don't accept he was "right to go down". The minimal contact from Can was nowhere near enough to seriously affect him going through and potentially scoring a goal. We need players in the team who are hungry to score goals and Djuricic seems to be more hungry to hit the deck at the slightest contact on this evidence. Even he seems to be half admitting the first one probably wasn't a pen in his comments (quoted by coxford_lou).

Having watched the replay it was still a foul and should have been a penalty. Whether Filip goes down or not is irrelevant, you cannot pull someone back which is what Can did by grabbing his shoulder. Granted it was not the worst, but it was still a penalty.

[Batman]

Having watched the replay it was still a foul and should have been a penalty. Whether Filip goes down or not is irrelevant, you cannot pull someone back which is what Can did by grabbing his shoulder. Granted it was not the worst, but it was still a penalty.

 

of course, had that ref give the exact thing for liverpool. we would not be happy at all

[Window Cleaner]

of course, had that ref give the exact thing for liverpool. we would not be happy at all

 

José scythed down Sterling I think it was, didn't give that, think they had a pretty decent handball shout turned down as well.

Friend didn't give any penalties, could have though but it wasn't all one way traffic.

[trousers]

of course, had that ref give the exact thing for liverpool. we would not be happy at all

There's a difference between being happy or unhappy and being right or wrong.

[DT]

José scythed down Sterling I think it was, didn't give that, think they had a pretty decent handball shout turned down as well.

Friend didn't give any penalties, could have though but it wasn't all one way traffic.

 

Fonte got the ball first. No pen

[Batman]

Fonte got the ball first. No pen

 

doesnt matter, you cant get the ball and clean out the opponent in the same movement. You just cant do that

like I said, when it is against saints, it is the complete opposite as to what happened the other end

[Window Cleaner]

Fonte got the ball first. No pen

 

You just have to get over this 1970s theory that if you get the ball anything goes, he took out everything in his line of motion and it was a penalty according to the rules of the game today.

[DT]

Don't care. It was against us so no pen. ;-)

[Window Cleaner]

But on the subject of penalties the PL refereeing corps have to get their ducks in a row, Kane got a point saving penalty

for a "foul" that Friend would have waved away. Atkinson could have sent off a shedload of Burnley players and didn't, another ref would have had a red card bonanza. In Europe the rules are uniformly applied, an offence is an offence according to the rules of the game and sanction follows, refs do no interpret the rules as they see them. This is why Mourinho et al keep moaning, the rules as they stand are not being applied uniformly.

[Leicestersaint]

Robbed.

[redder freak]

Having seen the 4 penalty shouts and Rodgers' comments about his Friend I'm hopeful that the team will be hugely motivated to win now. You can't buy that sort of motivation. Need to channel it and not waste it.

[Picard]

But on the subject of penalties the PL refereeing corps have to get their ducks in a row, Kane got a point saving penalty

for a "foul" that Friend would have waved away. Atkinson could have sent off a shedload of Burnley players and didn't, another ref would have had a red card bonanza. In Europe the rules are uniformly applied, an offence is an offence according to the rules of the game and sanction follows, refs do no interpret the rules as they see them. This is why Mourinho et al keep moaning, the rules as they stand are not being applied uniformly.

 

Atkinson will be reffing the Crystal Palace game.

[Bearsy]

It was a Bottle Job from the referee, IMO. Giving penalties early doors, especially if they might mean Red Card, is too big a call for chicken-head referee like K.Friend. We would do better to make our penalty appeals in the last minute, like Spurs do

[aintforever]

You just have to get over this 1970s theory that if you get the ball anything goes, he took out everything in his line of motion and it was a penalty according to the rules of the game today.

 

Weird that, because the two 'experts' on sky said it wasn't a pen, and one of them was ex-Liverpool. When the conditions are that slippery you have to accept that there will be a follow-through.

[Jimmy_D]

Can't remember being this ****ed off after a game before.

 

Usually I'm over a loss by the time I get to the end of the road walking home from the stadium and ready to look forward to what's needed next, but still sat here 24 hours later feeling wound up.

 

Got a feeling it'll take a while longer yet.

 

Watching this for a while helps a little bit.

[Coxford_lou]

@JPW_NBCSports: Guess who? Two Premier League referees dropped for next weekend after*controversy http://t.co/yEj7oJUMGT | #CFC #SaintsFC

[cellone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6KxIaP6fHr4

[Jimmy_D]

@JPW_NBCSports: Guess who? Two Premier League referees dropped for next weekend after*controversy http://t.co/yEj7oJUMGT | #CFC #SaintsFC

 

OK, that helps a bit too.

[trousers]

Weird that, because the two 'experts' on sky said it wasn't a pen, and one of them was ex-Liverpool. When the conditions are that slippery you have to accept that there will be a follow-through.

This.

 

The logical conclusion of not allowing for 'follow through' is that players shouldn't make any tackles. Other than defying the laws of physics, how else is a player supposed to tackle without following through?

 

Fonte's was a great tackle IMO, regardless of whether its 1975 or 2015.

 

Playing the "but you wouldn't have said that if it was the other way around" card won't change my opinion.

Edited 23 February, 2015 by trousers

[Window Cleaner]

OK, that helps a bit too.

 

How come, we still got a big round zero points from the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

@JPW_NBCSports: Guess who? Two Premier League referees dropped for next weekend after*controversy http://t.co/yEj7oJUMGT | #CFC #SaintsFC

 

That'll cost them

 

Doesn't help us of course.

[doddisalegend]

From the guardians 10 things we learnt article.

 

4) No need for Rodgers to act like an own brand Mourinho

 

It is at times hard to work out what Brendan Rodgers is getting at, or indeed whether he’s really getting at anything at all or just following a template of learned Top Manager Behaviour. Certainly it is not immediately obvious what the point of coming out against Southampton’s match day programme editor after his team’s 2-0 victory at St Mary’s Stadium. For one thing Rodgers was wrong: Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were mentioned in the programme on the occasion of their return to the club. And secondly it is obviously none of his business what Southampton choose to put in a programme that was, naturally enough, devoted to current team matters rather than a fawning memorial to the opposition. The world is already full enough of people demanding respect/more respect/some kind of an apology, although in fairness this is perhaps a niche kind of low on that front. Football on the other hand has always been a place of mischief and iconoclasm. This is why we watch it in the first place.

 

For the record Lambert was greeted warmly on his return, Lallana routinely booed in response to the circumstances of his departure, which ended with the player using an England press conference to deny he had threatened to go on strike if Southampton didn’t sell him. And that should be the end of it. There were so many other worthy topics of conversation at the end of this match: Liverpool’s fine current run; Raheem Sterling’s mature sense of menace; Filip Djuricic’s excellent full debut. Instead we got an editorial conference, a needless attitude of offence, and the spectacle of a manager who might have taken a moment to dwell on his own recent successes instead coming on like an own brand Mourinho, seeking out a contrived and unnecessary moment of friction. Barney Ronay

[Coxford_lou]

From the guardians 10 things we learnt article.

 

4) No need for Rodgers to act like an own brand Mourinho

 

It is at times hard to work out what Brendan Rodgers is getting at, or indeed whether he’s really getting at anything at all or just following a template of learned Top Manager Behaviour. Certainly it is not immediately obvious what the point of coming out against Southampton’s match day programme editor after his team’s 2-0 victory at St Mary’s Stadium. For one thing Rodgers was wrong: Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were mentioned in the programme on the occasion of their return to the club. And secondly it is obviously none of his business what Southampton choose to put in a programme that was, naturally enough, devoted to current team matters rather than a fawning memorial to the opposition. The world is already full enough of people demanding respect/more respect/some kind of an apology, although in fairness this is perhaps a niche kind of low on that front. Football on the other hand has always been a place of mischief and iconoclasm. This is why we watch it in the first place.

 

For the record Lambert was greeted warmly on his return, Lallana routinely booed in response to the circumstances of his departure, which ended with the player using an England press conference to deny he had threatened to go on strike if Southampton didn’t sell him. And that should be the end of it. There were so many other worthy topics of conversation at the end of this match: Liverpool’s fine current run; Raheem Sterling’s mature sense of menace; Filip Djuricic’s excellent full debut. Instead we got an editorial conference, a needless attitude of offence, and the spectacle of a manager who might have taken a moment to dwell on his own recent successes instead coming on like an own brand Mourinho, seeking out a contrived and unnecessary moment of friction. Barney Ronay

 

Barney Ronay, I you massively for saying this and publishing it. Brendan Rodgers, you utter c*ck.

[shurlock]

This.

 

The logical conclusion of not allowing for 'follow through' is that players shouldn't make any tackles. Other than defying the laws of physics, how else is a player supposed to tackle without following through?

 

Fonte's was a great tackle IMO, regardless of whether its 1975 or 2015.

 

Playing the "but you wouldn't have said that if it was the other way around" card won't change my opinion.

 

If you go clean through the player after winning the ball, then you're skating on thin ice. If you take the ball then the player out at an angle, you're on much firmer ground. The angle is everything.

 

Conditions matter hugely: you will always follow through when it's wet. The alternative -to say a player can't slide- is ridiculous and makes a further mockery of whatever competitive balance is supposed to exist between defenders and attackers.

[beatlesaint]

From the guardians 10 things we learnt article.

 

4) No need for Rodgers to act like an own brand Mourinho

 

It is at times hard to work out what Brendan Rodgers is getting at, or indeed whether he’s really getting at anything at all or just following a template of learned Top Manager Behaviour. Certainly it is not immediately obvious what the point of coming out against Southampton’s match day programme editor after his team’s 2-0 victory at St Mary’s Stadium. For one thing Rodgers was wrong: Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were mentioned in the programme on the occasion of their return to the club. And secondly it is obviously none of his business what Southampton choose to put in a programme that was, naturally enough, devoted to current team matters rather than a fawning memorial to the opposition. The world is already full enough of people demanding respect/more respect/some kind of an apology, although in fairness this is perhaps a niche kind of low on that front. Football on the other hand has always been a place of mischief and iconoclasm. This is why we watch it in the first place.

 

For the record Lambert was greeted warmly on his return, Lallana routinely booed in response to the circumstances of his departure, which ended with the player using an England press conference to deny he had threatened to go on strike if Southampton didn’t sell him. And that should be the end of it. There were so many other worthy topics of conversation at the end of this match: Liverpool’s fine current run; Raheem Sterling’s mature sense of menace; Filip Djuricic’s excellent full debut. Instead we got an editorial conference, a needless attitude of offence, and the spectacle of a manager who might have taken a moment to dwell on his own recent successes instead coming on like an own brand Mourinho, seeking out a contrived and unnecessary moment of friction. Barney Ronay

 

Excellent

[John Boy Saint]

Over 24 hours have elapsed and the biggest frustration is that we went in to slow motion round their box but worst of all with a greasy pitch and a questionable keeper of late in between the sticks for them we weren't prepared to fizz some balls at him to fumble.

C'est la vie as a Saints fan

Edited 23 February, 2015 by John Boy Saint

[Graffito]

@JPW_NBCSports: Guess who? Two Premier League referees dropped for next weekend after*controversy http://t.co/yEj7oJUMGT | #CFC #SaintsFC

 

But I don't understand. How can this be? Brendan Rodgers told us the referee was excellent. Dejan Lovren said the referee did a great job.

[Patrick Bateman]

From the guardians 10 things we learnt article.

 

4) No need for Rodgers to act like an own brand Mourinho

 

It is at times hard to work out what Brendan Rodgers is getting at, or indeed whether he’s really getting at anything at all or just following a template of learned Top Manager Behaviour. Certainly it is not immediately obvious what the point of coming out against Southampton’s match day programme editor after his team’s 2-0 victory at St Mary’s Stadium. For one thing Rodgers was wrong: Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were mentioned in the programme on the occasion of their return to the club. And secondly it is obviously none of his business what Southampton choose to put in a programme that was, naturally enough, devoted to current team matters rather than a fawning memorial to the opposition. The world is already full enough of people demanding respect/more respect/some kind of an apology, although in fairness this is perhaps a niche kind of low on that front. Football on the other hand has always been a place of mischief and iconoclasm. This is why we watch it in the first place.

 

For the record Lambert was greeted warmly on his return, Lallana routinely booed in response to the circumstances of his departure, which ended with the player using an England press conference to deny he had threatened to go on strike if Southampton didn’t sell him. And that should be the end of it. There were so many other worthy topics of conversation at the end of this match: Liverpool’s fine current run; Raheem Sterling’s mature sense of menace; Filip Djuricic’s excellent full debut. Instead we got an editorial conference, a needless attitude of offence, and the spectacle of a manager who might have taken a moment to dwell on his own recent successes instead coming on like an own brand Mourinho, seeking out a contrived and unnecessary moment of friction. Barney Ronay

 

That was quite amusing. No idea what planet Rodgers is on now, but he has certainly caught the "Complete and utter helmet full of self-importance disease" now. It's getting worse. Terminal.

[Batman]

That was quite amusing. No idea what planet Rodgers is on now, but he has certainly caught the "Complete and utter helmet full of self-importance disease" now. It's getting worse. Terminal.

 

seems to be a bit more full of it now liverpool are doing well.

[doddisalegend]

That was quite amusing. No idea what planet Rodgers is on now, but he has certainly caught the "Complete and utter helmet full of self-importance disease" now. It's getting worse. Terminal.

 

Thing is it's not like he has even got the CV to act like that his entire footballing success is winning the play offs with Swansea. Mourhino is a **** but at least he has got trophies and success to back that up.

[John Boy Saint]

Just as an aside to all this Brenda said x cobblers. Did anyone else notice who I could have sworn was Sam Gallagher out on the pitch at half time having a one to one session.......... Just wondered with Mané going AWOL for 20 minutes whether he was put on standby?

[Whitey Grandad]

Just as an aside to all this Brenda said x cobblers. Did anyone else notice who I could have sworn was Sam Gallagher out on the pitch at half time having a one to one session.......... Just wondered with Mané going AWOL for 20 minutes whether he was put on standby?

 

I think that was Morgan.

[John Boy Saint]

I think that was Morgan.

No there was a another hooded soul out there earlier than Morgan his hood on his coat slipped a little which made me go "hang on that's young Sam ........!".

[cellone]

No there was a another hooded soul out there earlier than Morgan his hood on his coat slipped a little which made me go "hang on that's young Sam ........!".

 

You make that sound like a lady showing a bit of ankle.

[Benny F]

James Ward Pointless should not be starting. Someone said it before, but hes got a Cleverly thing about him.

Time to drop Pelle or at least play Mane off him in a front two.

Elia needs to start showing his dribbling ability. He cut inside about 99% of the time and laid off.

 

Wanyama somewhat at fault for the first goal. check his movement before coutinho gets the ball. Coutinho had way too much space.

 

Fonte, Yoshida and CLyne superb. Targett did well. shame about his feet for the second.

 

Schneiderlin - we need him and Wanyama together from now on.

 

James WP - i know hes young, i know he has 'good delivery' but come on. time to start producing. Harrison Reed is much better.

 

Come on you reds. 5th in February. still dreamland.

[VectisSaint]

of course, had that ref give the exact thing for liverpool. we would not be happy at all

No we would not. Would be unhappy with the player that did it, ****ed off that the ref gave a bit of a soft penalty, but in the end accepting of the fact that a foul was committed and sanctioned.

There is a good case that Friend should have awarded 5 penalties yesterday, plus a handball, plus numerous free kicks against Liverpool defenders. The fact is that he missed so much at both ends that makes his performance unacceptable.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Taken me this long to have the heart to read this forum . Really frustred and disappointed .

 

The pens, I thought both the early ones were , but didn't see handball from the corner . I also thought the fonte one was as well . I haven't watched any replays so just relying on what I saw. Graham Poll was on H&J and he said second one of ours and Fonte one were "stonewalls " and bad refereeing errors.

 

As for the game , they were there for the taking , but when you're struggling for goals a stunning early one against is a real kick in the balls. We played ok until the final 3rd , where we just lack that extra quality the other top 4 chasers have . The free kick where Morgan didn't shoot summed it up for me . For the first time this season I thought Ron picked the wrong side . I'd have had Reed instead of jwp , and Steve Davis had a poor game .

[OttawaSaint]

OK, that helps a bit too.

 

Doesn't help me, makes it worse in my opinion. Now I know I wasn't just being delusional and biased because it was my team. We were cheated plain and simple.

[Norm]

Friend dropped, no shock there. He was shocking/dire/rubbish, take your pick.

[positivepete]

@JPW_NBCSports: Guess who? Two Premier League referees dropped for next weekend after*controversy http://t.co/yEj7oJUMGT | #CFC #SaintsFC

 

But then Atkinsons next appointment is our game versus Palace!

[the saint in winchester]

But on the subject of penalties the PL refereeing corps have to get their ducks in a row, Kane got a point saving penalty

for a "foul" that Friend would have waved away. Atkinson could have sent off a shedload of Burnley players and didn't, another ref would have had a red card bonanza. In Europe the rules are uniformly applied, an offence is an offence according to the rules of the game and sanction follows, refs do no interpret the rules as they see them. This is why Mourinho et al keep moaning, the rules as they stand are not being applied uniformly.

 

Agree with this. Inconsistent refereeing is at its peak. Retired refs pointing out their errors every week. They do diddley squat Mon to Fri. Surely they can all meet up and be reminded of what constitutes a yellow or a red card etc. If they can't get the decisions right, I am all for referring decisions to a TV watcher. One TV referee.

[Twiggy]

I m a bit advocate for TV replays, like there are in rugby. Yes it will make the game longer, but it will eliminate these ridiculous decisions. As pointed out on MOTD, the linesman had no chance of getting back from our half to see the Mingolet handball as he is only human. Well remove the human element or provide a way to make it easier for them maybe 4 linesmen?

[Solid Saint]

Doesn't help me, makes it worse in my opinion. Now I know I wasn't just being delusional and biased because it was my team. We were cheated plain and simple.

 

The game was quite clearly an agenda refereed match. One of two this weekend.

 

After the Chelsea game this was not a great weekend for Premier league football and especially the PGMOL.

 

Embarrassing.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I m a bit advocate for TV replays, like there are in rugby. Yes it will make the game longer, but it will eliminate these ridiculous decisions. As pointed out on MOTD, the linesman had no chance of getting back from our half to see the Mingolet handball as he is only human. Well remove the human element or provide a way to make it easier for them maybe 4 linesmen?

 

A Referee's Assistant by the goal would work. But they did it before and whomever fulfilled the role seemed to have the remit to do nothing, which as a shame. As it works well in theory.

[Twiggy]

A Referee's Assistant by the goal would work. But they did it before and whomever fulfilled the role seemed to have the remit to do nothing' date=' which as a shame. As it works well in theory.[/quote']

 

I was thinking more of having a lines man (or woman) patrol each section of the pitch. So two in each half meaning that there is always someone back in time and will hopefully mean they are always in the correct position.

[corky morris]

The things evening out are complete nonsense! By him not giving a blatant penalty in the 4th minute it changes the game completely. If we score the emphasis changes of both teams. Friend constantly made poor decisions. The Cann hack on Clyne was a yellow card every day. Almost as bad as the Keane challenge on Hesketh at Burnley that went unpunished. How did Ward not suffer for the foul on Long in the Cup? I can go on & on.

The point being, things don't even themselves out. There is no evidence to prove it.

If you look at the stats produced by the Torygraph I think it was, The big teams are favoured by referees. They get more decisions, more importantly more of the 50/50's.

They were saying Rooney was right to go down against Preston even without contact because of the intent. They then say players have to go down because if they try to stay on their feet & lose the ball the referees never return back to the foul, particularly if the foul results in a penalty. So a player has a choice, go down or maybe, just maybe he might be able to reach the ball & score.

The issue is even bigger in junior football. Referee's have told me that if a player stays on his feet & carries on its no free kick even if he is fouled. If he goes down, its a free kick. Basically football is encouraging players to go to ground. The managers at various age groups at an academy my lads are at tells the lads to go to ground. All of the managers do!!!! Referees, fans, managers, & the media moan about it when it goes against them, but encourage it if they can get an advantage.

IMHO Friend does not give the second because he thinks Djuricic goes down to easy. He sets a precedent & lets Liverpool get away with many poor challenges before booking Wanyama. Total inconsistency!

[Whitey Grandad]

I m a bit advocate for TV replays, like there are in rugby. Yes it will make the game longer, but it will eliminate these ridiculous decisions. As pointed out on MOTD, the linesman had no chance of getting back from our half to see the Mingolet handball as he is only human. Well remove the human element or provide a way to make it easier for them maybe 4 linesmen?

 

Yes he did, he was just slow to respond. If Skrtel and even Lovren can get 10 yards on him in a couple of seconds then there's something wrong.

[Whitey Grandad]

The things evening out are complete nonsense! By him not giving a blatant penalty in the 4th minute it changes the game completely. If we score the emphasis changes of both teams. Friend constantly made poor decisions. The Cann hack on Clyne was a yellow card every day. Almost as bad as the Keane challenge on Hesketh at Burnley that went unpunished. How did Ward not suffer for the foul on Long in the Cup? I can go on & on.

The point being, things don't even themselves out. There is no evidence to prove it.

If you look at the stats produced by the Torygraph I think it was, The big teams are favoured by referees. They get more decisions, more importantly more of the 50/50's.

They were saying Rooney was right to go down against Preston even without contact because of the intent. They then say players have to go down because if they try to stay on their feet & lose the ball the referees never return back to the foul, particularly if the foul results in a penalty. So a player has a choice, go down or maybe, just maybe he might be able to reach the ball & score.

The issue is even bigger in junior football. Referee's have told me that if a player stays on his feet & carries on its no free kick even if he is fouled. If he goes down, its a free kick. Basically football is encouraging players to go to ground. The managers at various age groups at an academy my lads are at tells the lads to go to ground. All of the managers do!!!! Referees, fans, managers, & the media moan about it when it goes against them, but encourage it if they can get an advantage.

IMHO Friend does not give the second because he thinks Djuricic goes down to easy. He sets a precedent & lets Liverpool get away with many poor challenges before booking Wanyama. Total inconsistency!

 

Then they are bad referees. That's not the way that was approved when I was active.