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CONFIRMED - Virgil Van Dijk joins on Five Year Deal

Brizzie Saints

By Brizzie Saints,
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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I noticed on Twitter that VVD 'favourited' two of Southampton FC's tweets about us signing Clasie. There could be nothing in it ofcourse but it's interesting that he did that for all to see with him linked to Saints.

 

We're 2/1 to sign him at the moment.. Definitely could be worth a few quid.

He's done it for all transfers involving his Dutch chums. Nothing to read into.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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DF had a good season for us in the Championship. Nobody made a song and dance about him being utter dross or woeful of ****e or whatever then. I actually thought he'd do ok when we got promoted and that ?Fonte would struggle. But Heh, lets all slag off MLG and rewrite history.

 

 

Tbf there were quite a few of us pointing Danny's complete inability to defend even the championship season

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Cabrone

Cabrone

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Whilst it's tricky assessing players in Scotland as Scottish football makes any half decent player look world class this guy does look to have genuine considerable talent about him.

 

Looking at the videos he almost seems to play like a very deep lying box to box midfielder, the amount of times I see him streaming up the pitch with the ball. Not so sure he'd get away with that level of freedom in the PL and he'd have to knuckle back down to more defensive positioning but nevertheless he looks talented.

 

I think we'd have to be looking at £10M to make a serious bid.

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Professor

Professor

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According to press reports over the last few weeks, van Dijk is an ideal transfer target for Norwich, but is subject to a swoop by Sunderland and a swoop by Swansea while Tottenham have joined the race along with Everton and Arsenal. One thing is certain. They can't all be right but they can all be wrong. After Van Dijk has played in the second leg of Celtic's CL qualifier on Wednesday we may hear more.

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The9

The9

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Tbf there were quite a few of us pointing Danny's complete inability to defend even the championship season

 

Hardly his fault when his job was to get halfway into the opposition's half and stand up a cross to Lambert at the far post, leaving him 30 yards further up the pitch than the opposing right winger if we lost the ball. Richardson had a similar problem on the right wing, but had more cover.

 

Interestingly when we had to defend and the defence were all in position - THAT was when Fox always seemed to take that extra second to abandon his near post position and get out wide to press the crosser. Which was exactly the same thing Martina was having trouble with in Salzburg - not knowing when to stay in position and when to close the ball. Martina and Stephens were getting directed by Fonte for the whole of the 45 against Valencia and you could see it was going to take a lot of work.

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

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Just found this piece on Vlaar on an Irish website. :-/

 

Ron Vlaar was hot property last summer having had a good World Cup. However, he was never that big of a superstar at Aston Villa and his under-par 2014/15 season only proved that. Vlaar lost the Captain's arm band when Paul Lambert was sacked in February and Tim Sherwood came in to rescue the club's season. But, whilst some of the Villa Park faithful would testify that their centre back was never what the hype and paper talk suggested, even the most cynical wouldn't have expected these sort of stats.

 

Opta stats from Oulala.com show just how ineffective the Netherlands international was last season.

 

He averaged 0.55 tackles per game in the Premier League.

 

That's right: Ron Vlaar was making a tackle every two games for Villa in the league. His stats were that shocking that even Mario Balotelli was winning more tackles per game. Raheem Sterling too. Vlaar is now a free agent, his contract having expired, but, with form like this, he might not have a crowd of clubs lining up for his signature.

 

Bloody hell, have you learned nothing? Alex Ferguson described his sale of Jaap Stam as his biggest mistake. Why did he sell Stam? Because his "number of tackles made" figure had dropped, so Ferguson thought he was being less involved and less effective.

 

In fact, Stam had become much better at intercepting and reading the game, stopping moves before they even got to the point where a tackle was required. So he had actually improved his defending significantly.

 

Taking a single stat without context proves nothing. Especially when compared to Balotelli and Sterling, who operated as part of pressing attacks designed to turn the ball over high up the pitch.

 

Having said all that, I think Vlaar has looked slow and ineffective - but that's a useless stat to try and prove it. Now if he's also not making interceptions, losing aerial duels, not making blocks, then you've got some evidence.

 

Useful link for where to source Opta stats though. :)

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The9

The9

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Verbatim quote here from Brian Prestige, head of analytical development at Bolton. “The person with the most tackles means nothing.

 

We’re after clever defenders who intercept and have the right starting positions. They maximise their efficiency by not running around the pitch trying to lunge in and tackle everyone, but by trying to just intercept key passes because they’re keeping in shape.”

 

- See more at: http://www.information-age.com/it-management/strategy-and-innovation/123458305/how-bolton-wanderers-are-revolutionising-use-data-analysis-football-win-back-their-premier-league#sthash.EcQFvfSu.dpuf

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Pat from Poole

Pat from Poole

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Bloody hell, have you learned nothing? Alex Ferguson described his sale of Jaap Stam as his biggest mistake. Why did he sell Stam? Because his "number of tackles made" figure had dropped, so Ferguson thought he was being less involved and less effective.

 

In fact, Stam had become much better at intercepting and reading the game, stopping moves before they even got to the point where a tackle was required. So he had actually improved his defending significantly.

 

Taking a single stat without context proves nothing. Especially when compared to Balotelli and Sterling, who operated as part of pressing attacks designed to turn the ball over high up the pitch.

 

Having said all that, I think Vlaar has looked slow and ineffective - but that's a useless stat to try and prove it. Now if he's also not making interceptions, losing aerial duels, not making blocks, then you've got some evidence.

 

Useful link for where to source Opta stats though. :)

 

I thought Ferguson sold Jaap Stam because he slagged Ferguson off in his autobiography. Though I may be mixing him up with another United player possibly.

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grezz

grezz

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I thought Ferguson sold Jaap Stam because he slagged Ferguson off in his autobiography. Though I may be mixing him up with another United player possibly.

 

True that. That book was written by a Saints fan and my old school mate Jeremy Butler. I am reliably informed by Jez that the 'incident' was slightly embellished but he still laughed about it when he was telling me because he hates Man Utd.

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Redslo

Redslo

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As an American, I was not able to watch many of the games from the Championship season. That being said, it seems bizarre to nitpick the performances of the starting players that season. They must have done ok.

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scotty

scotty

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As an American, I was not able to watch many of the games from the Championship season. That being said, it seems bizarre to nitpick the performances of the starting players that season. They must have done ok.

 

Foxy always looked classier than he actually was. Really comfortable on the ball, good set pieces, but he was prone to drifting horribly out of position and playing suicidal hollywood passes. I still cringe at the Reading game, he played an utterly pointless sideways ball across the back line in front of the keeper, Reading striker nips in, nicks it and scored their opener against the run of play. Although Rickie equalised early in the 2nd, we were always on the back foot from then and lost 3-1, le fondre sticking his customary late winners in.

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the_emu

the_emu

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This was one of the last games I saw Fox, but summed up quite a few games where he playe - http://www.squawka.com/news/young-at-heart-how-the-absence-of-shaw-and-clyne-hurt-saints-vs-spurs/46192

 

The real source of interest therefore came from the inclusion of Danny Fox, making his first league appearance since early October and looking to fill the boots of an 18-year-old drawing in massive plaudits of late.

 

However, the 27-year-old at times made Shaw’s injury feel so telling, Fox not bringing the same calmness to the role, however ironic that may sound given the nine-year advantage the defender has over his younger.

 

He really wasn't that good for us..

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Redslo

Redslo

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This was one of the last games I saw Fox, but summed up quite a few games where he playe - http://www.squawka.com/news/young-at-heart-how-the-absence-of-shaw-and-clyne-hurt-saints-vs-spurs/46192

 

 

 

He really wasn't that good for us..

 

I am not disputing that he wasn't that much help in the Premier League. I still remember his brilliant header back across goal in the first game back against Manchester City.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Fox is a championship player who did a job for us the championship, end of story. Why people still have to moan about him, god only knows. We moved up a level, he wasn't good enough , neither was Billy Sharp or Dan Harding, big deal. He is one of the players that got us promotion, so he has my respect. There actually havent been that many players who have in our long history.

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Turkish

Turkish

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Danny Fox was one of those players who was a whipping boy from the day he joined. For some reason the fans never took too him and people seem to have short memories. He was part of one of the best defences in the championship, as well as this he was credited with 13 assists in our promotion season, second only to Rickie Lambert. IN the first 3/4s of the season he was fine but as we started to struggle towards the end of the season fans got his back but in truth the way we played didn't help him. He's not the quickest and if people recall how we set up that season we played mostly 4-4-2 with Lallana on the left ahead of him. Lallana, for all his attributes is not a great defensive midfielder so Fox would get little proteciton from in front of him, with a big part of his job being to play high up the pitch to provide crosses into the box for Lambert, which his assist total proves he did well meaning he was always going to be exposed against the "pacy wideman" as we saw on a few occasions, such as Blackpool away.

 

That's not to say he was a premier league player, he is a decent championship full back, nothing more nothing less. Never going to make a Premier league player, much like Jos Hooliveld and just like him he played an important part in our promotion. But whilst Hooliveld is a bit of a fans favourite who people remember affectionatly, Fox competes with Guly for the boo boys favourite from that season. Shame really that even in great times like we are in fans cant appreciate what a player did for us because they never liked him for no real reason.

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the_emu

the_emu

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His assists stats would prove he did well if he was playing on the wing, but what those stats overshadow is his constant derelict of defensive duty which exposed us time and time again, either because he was too far advanced too often, as slow as a wet weekend, poor positioning, or a combination of all three.

 

Ultimately that's why Shaw as a 17 year old usurped him, not because he could supply more assists, but because as a left back he could do "the" job, not "a" job.

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The9

The9

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I thought Ferguson sold Jaap Stam because he slagged Ferguson off in his autobiography. Though I may be mixing him up with another United player possibly.

 

So did everyone else at the time, but Ferguson was even saying it was a football decision at the time: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ferguson-sons-role-in-stam-transfer-9276429.html

 

And since then there has been this story about Ferguson reading the tackling data, since repeated in The Numbers Game.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9471db52-97bb-11e0-9c37-00144feab49a.html

 

"But the broader breakthrough came in 1996, after the Opta Index company began collecting “match data” from the English Premier League, explains the German author Christoph Biermann in Die Fussball-Matrix, the pioneering book on football and data. For the first time, clubs knew how many kilometres each player ran per match, and how many tackles and passes he made. Other data companies entered the market. Some football managers began to look at the stats. In August 2001 Manchester United’s manager Alex Ferguson suddenly sold his defender Jaap Stam to Lazio Roma. The move surprised everyone. Some thought Ferguson was punishing the Dutchman for a silly autobiography he had just published. In truth, although Ferguson didn’t say this publicly, the sale was prompted partly by match data. Studying the numbers, Ferguson had spotted that Stam was tackling less often than before. He presumed the defender, then 29, was declining. So he sold him.

As Ferguson later admitted, this was a mistake. Like many football men in the early days of match data, the manager had studied the wrong numbers. Stam wasn’t in decline at all: he would go on to have several excellent years in Italy. Still, the sale was a milestone in football history: a transfer driven largely by stats."

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

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His assists stats would prove he did well if he was playing on the wing, but what those stats overshadow is his constant derelict of defensive duty which exposed us time and time again, either because he was too far advanced too often, as slow as a wet weekend, poor positioning, or a combination of all three.

 

Ultimately that's why Shaw as a 17 year old usurped him, not because he could supply more assists, but because as a left back he could do "the" job, not "a" job.

 

He was out of position because our tactics called for him to be out of position more often than not. He wasn't slow, but he didn't have the kind of pace that would catch up a 15 yard head start on players with 40 yards of space to knock the ball into.

 

Shaw's assist stats were exactly the same as Fox's in the Premier League - they both had 1 assist, Fox in 2012/13 and Shaw in 2013/14. Shaw was caught up the pitch plenty of times too, it was a feature of Pochettino's sides how often we had full backs in the opposing half and how many times we got caught by long balls which we couldn't defend with only 2 centre backs in our own half. Shaw obviously had a bigger upside, so he took over, but he made plenty of Fox-like positional "errors".

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The9

The9

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I am not disputing that he wasn't that much help in the Premier League. I still remember his brilliant header back across goal in the first game back against Manchester City.

 

That one didn't count towards the assist stats - but it was a good illustration of how absolutely knackered he was by then.

 

No-one's every questioned Shaw's fitness, have they? :D

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shurlock

shurlock

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Fox did a decent job for us and was instrumental in getting us promoted. IMO, there are four reasons why he attracts so much scorn:

 

1. It is easy to forget he was one, if not our most expensive signing after administration (obviously before we reached the premiership). That became a burden and de facto standard by which to judge him.

2. He replaced take-no-prisoners, fan favourite Dan Harding - that said, its interesting that Harding proceeded to keep Fox out at Forest.

3. Even when he wasn't caught up the pitch -for which there may be good reasons- he had a tendency to stand off attackers and overcompensate for his lack of pace. These things are clear to even the most naked, uneducated eye.

4. By extension, many still hold him culpable for the opening goal against Reading that had large bearing on them winning the Championship.

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The9

The9

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Fox did a decent job for us and was instrumental in getting us promoted. IMO, there are four reasons why he attracts so much scorn:

 

1. It is easy to forget he was one, if not our most expensive signing after administration (obviously before we reached the premiership). That became a burden and de facto standard by which to judge him.

2. He replaced take-no-prisoners, fan favourite Dan Harding - that said, its interesting that Harding proceeded to keep Fox out at Forest.

3. Even when he wasn't caught up the pitch -for which there may be good reasons- he had a tendency to stand off attackers and overcompensate for his lack of pace. These things are clear to even the most naked, uneducated eye.

4. By extension, many still hold him culpable for the opening goal against Reading that had large bearing on them winning the Championship.

 

1. Fox's fee was undisclosed, though guesswork has it somewhere between £1.5m-2m as his previous transfers were to Celtic (£1.5m) and Burnley (£1.8m) 18 months previously. He cost about the same as Billy Sharp, but Sharp was £1.8m for 6 months' worth and 3 years' wages. This all paled into comparison with the £6m for Rodriguez the following summer of course. I also don't remember anyone complaining about the fee for Fox at any point, it was pretty standard for a Championship player.

2. They seemed much of a muchness to me, with different skillsets but Fox's attacking play and set piece delivery was vital to our promotion and his defending wasn't usually detrimental to it.

3. He did seem slow to react and break cover from the box to close down wide men preparing to cross, but that was about it. He wasn't a slow runner, but he was usually 10 yards behind the ball being played into the space behind him which is the kind of distance few would make up. Shaw had the same problem and was worth about 20 times more.

4. Can't remember it, to be honest. Fairly sure today is the first time I've ever seen Fox blamed for us not winning the Championship title. Especially given that Lambert equalised and we were drawing 1-1 at the 70 minute mark, and also lost at Middlesbrough a week later which was far more damaging given that Reading drew and lost their final two games and beat us by a point.

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The9

The9

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Why are Danny Fox and Luke Shaw being discussed on a thread about Virgil Van Dyke?

 

Boring.

 

Agreed. Comes back to the crapola argument that Celtic players are rubbish. And we've already had the Forster, Boruc, Wanyama, Hooiveld argument.

 

Still not sure Van Dijk is the solution, but we need to sign someone who might be, because I know Yoshida and Gardos aren't.

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georgeweahscousin

georgeweahscousin

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I think van Dijk would be a good move. Ball playing centre half and young, but....

 

....I'm not quite as panicky about a centre half as everyone else. Yoshida was great everytime he deputised last season, Gardos I think the jury is still out on and Jack Stephens and Jordan Turnball came back from Swindon with rave reviews.

 

Basically, if we sign another one it needs to be one that is 100% better than all of those other options or otherwise there isn't much point.

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