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Shane Long


Saint Charlie

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Another poor display. In the moments where quality (instead of effort) were needed he was yet again found wanting.

 

To think he will cost £20m across his contract...

 

How much will Wanyama cost? His passing is woeful. He played a 30 yard pass out wide and missed his intended target by about 20 yards. I could've done better.

 

P.s. I agree about Long too.

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How much will Wanyama cost? His passing is woeful. He played a 30 yard pass out wide and missed his intended target by about 20 yards. I could've done better.

 

P.s. I agree about Long too.

Probably about the same as Long if he stayed across his 4 year deal.

 

Not playing well at the moment but has made big contributions and will also probably be able to get what we paid at least for him, whereas it would have to be a mug club to pay anything above £5m for Long.

 

Wanyama has been a starter most of his Saints career.

 

Long is an overpriced and poor impact player.

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So. I was a bit bored and thought I'd look up the two players (Tadic vs Long) respective stats in the premier league with Saints.

 

Long 14/15 - 5 goals and 6 assists. (1545 minutes)

Long 15/16 - 2 Goals and 0 assists. (366 minutes)

Long Total - 7 goals and 6 assists. (1911 minutes)

 

Tadic 14/15 - 4 goals and 9 assists. (2056 minutes)

Tadic 15/16 - 4 goals and 3 assists. (1058 minutes)

Tadic Total - 8 goals and 12 assists (3115 minutes)

 

If you take assists as worth the same as goals then:

 

Long has 7+6 = 13 and 1911/13 = 147 minutes per goal contribution.

Tadic has 8+12 = 20 and 3115/20 = 155.75 minutes per goal contribution.

 

So surprisingly, Long actually contributes more efficiently as an attacking outlet. Especially as he has a higher goals per minute ratio than tadic when both play as wingers, and tadic has a couple of penalties that could arguably be removed from his total with regards to contribution.

 

I find the above amusing since some put Tadic on a completely different level to Slong in regards to his importance to the team and contribution... when actually there is very little in it and the little man probably deserves a bit more respect and acknowledgement of what he offers.

 

Q

E

****ing

D

 

Pelle needs to be dropped. Regardless of injury.

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As posted on the HCDAJFU thread:

 

Serious question - would you be happy to sell Long and reinvest/gamble?

Tough one. He won't do that every week obviously and there aren't a lot of teams you could play the same way against.

 

Being honest, we shouldn't sell now especially as Pelle is injured but I certainly don't see Long being a regular starter across his contract and even last night he showed his very rough edges at times.

 

Worth noting that yesterday was possibly the first real time we played to his strengths, so fair play to Koeman for that.

 

But Long isn't a very good striker in a possession based game, isn't a good wide player and isn't a reliable finisher. As we have seen the majority of the time in his spell here.

 

Excellent yesterday though against CBs who hated playing against him. Great to watch.

 

The thread was partly a serious question (still don't rate him long term across a season of games) and also partly to generate discussion - which it did!

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Last night really showed up Koeman frankly. Why Long has very rarely been given a chance up front with Mane is baffling. His finishing isn't good enough to justify the 12 million we paid, but last night was a Vardy like performance. He ran them ragged

 

Once we had the Latvian Michael Owen, now we could have the Irish Jamie Vardy!

 

I think Long can be very much our own Vardy like striker - a complete pest who's not afraid to wind up the centre halves to give him an edge. Unlike Vardy, he's not been given a real run of games to get himself going. Vardy himself was hardly prolific in the top flight until Ranieri started him regularly. Maybe that's what Long needs too. Anyone know how long Pelle is out for? A run of games alongside Mane could allow us to see the real Shane Long.

Edited by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache
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So. I was a bit bored and thought I'd look up the two players (Tadic vs Long) respective stats in the premier league with Saints.

 

Long 14/15 - 5 goals and 6 assists. (1545 minutes)

Long 15/16 - 2 Goals and 0 assists. (366 minutes)

Long Total - 7 goals and 6 assists. (1911 minutes)

 

Tadic 14/15 - 4 goals and 9 assists. (2056 minutes)

Tadic 15/16 - 4 goals and 3 assists. (1058 minutes)

Tadic Total - 8 goals and 12 assists (3115 minutes)

If you take assists as worth the same as goals then:

 

Long has 7+6 = 13 and 1911/13 = 147 minutes per goal contribution.

Tadic has 8+12 = 20 and 3115/20 = 155.75 minutes per goal contribution.

 

So surprisingly, Long actually contributes more efficiently as an attacking outlet. Especially as he has a higher goals per minute ratio than tadic when both play as wingers, and tadic has a couple of penalties that could arguably be removed from his total with regards to contribution.

 

I find the above amusing since some put Tadic on a completely different level to Slong in regards to his importance to the team and contribution... when actually there is very little in it and the little man probably deserves a bit more respect and acknowledgement of what he offers.

 

 

Careful now....you need to have a watertight arguement on here if you start quoting stats. at people (I know)......however, I had to look back to find this post, but ..in some statistical analyses I've seen...." an assist " - (btw...you have to argue with some contributors on here what actually constitutes ...an assist)

 

"an assist " is valued 0,5 (points) in stats. and a goal as 1 point. This being the case, Long's stats. would be considerably better than Tadic's using that formula.

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Why even "compare" LONG with Tadic?!

 

You can do anything with weird stats.

 

Long scored in 3 out of 33 league games he featured in last season which is ****ing abysmal.

 

Long has the best goal per mins ratio of any Saints player in the Christmas period 2016 which is superb.

 

Long scored against Germany so is the best striker in Europe.

Edited by Saint Charlie
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I hope Pelle was watching last night, Long, despite his short stature, was more effective in the air than Pelle often is and he gave a masterclass in how to unsettle central defenders

 

bit harsh as Pelle been injured for a while and before that period he was awesome.

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I hope Pelle was watching last night, Long, despite his short stature, was more effective in the air than Pelle often is and he gave a masterclass in how to unsettle central defenders

 

They are so different as players it's a bit harsh to suggest they try to play in a similar way whatsoever. Pelle's aerial play is about retaining possession and Long's is about unsettling and creating that bustle.

 

One thing is for sure - if we plugged Pelle into that formation and asked him to play like Long and if we plugged Long into our 4-2-3-1 and asked him to play like Pelle we'd not be very good.

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It isn't Shane Long's fault that we paid £12m for him but the club clearly felt he was worth it. Whatever you think of him as a player he puts in a shift and unsettles defenders. If we paid £8m for him would we be having the same debate? He did a brilliant job yesterday against the team many are tipping for the title. He offers us something different from the bench but has shown now that he deserves to start more games. Why would you want to sell him (and take a financial hit in the process)?

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It's one game. All I want to see from long is goals. If he can get 12 this season, which would be his best by far, then he's a good player to have. If it's another 7 goals max then its just not good enough.

 

What if Koeman doesn't select him - has he still got to get the 12 goals? If he manages that then I'd bump his value up to £50million.

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I like Long, he is difficult to pick up and unsettles the defenders. He is a lot more physical than given credit for. His background playing GAA Hurling makes him unafraid of the physical clash. He played in two successive All Ireland Minor (U18 ) Finals before moving to Cork City to play football. GAA helps to give a nasty hard streak because of the total physical confrontation of the games. He is not a subtle finisher but still scores goals given the chances and service. Great the way he put Koscielny on his backside for his first goal.

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someone please take the shovel out of Saint Charlie's hands [emoji38]

What do you mean?

 

I said I still don't rate Long over a season. He was good last night though, in very specific circumstances which won't be repeated many or any times in the rest of the season.

 

Would I sell him now? No, because Pelle is injured and perhaps the Manager will now adapt our usual style to better suit Long, like last night.

 

Was he massive overpriced? Yes

 

Would I in the summer if a club came in with £8m or so? Absolutely 100%.

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What do you mean?

 

I said I still don't rate Long over a season. He was good last night though, in very specific circumstances which won't be repeated many or any times in the rest of the season.

 

Would I sell him now? No, because Pelle is injured and perhaps the Manager will now adapt our usual style to better suit Long, like last night.

 

Was he massive overpriced? Yes

 

Would I in the summer if a club came in with £8m or so? Absolutely 100%.

Pa ha ha ha.

 

Clearly some will never rate Long no matter what he does or achieves.

£12m was a lot for him, our mistake was not buying him 6 months earlier before he signed for Hull.

He's been unfortunate picking up an injury this season just as he was hitting a bit of form. He's great for us.

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Pa ha ha ha.

 

Clearly some will never rate Long no matter what he does or achieves.

£12m was a lot for him, our mistake was not buying him 6 months earlier before he signed for Hull.

He's been unfortunate picking up an injury this season just as he was hitting a bit of form. He's great for us.

Yours and my definition of "great" must be different, but fair enough.

 

Matt Le Tissier was great across his career. Rickie Lambert was great across his Saints career.

 

Long was excellent last night.

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Was he massive overpriced? Yes

 

Would I in the summer if a club came in with £8m or so? Absolutely 100%.

 

Not sure why people remain fixated on his £12m fee. £12m for a domestic transfer in the current market is not a huge amount of money. A decent season for a Championship striker and clubs ask for £10m+, so £12m for Long really doesn't stand out.

 

Some people still haven't twigged the market has moved on from the days in the 1990's or early 2000's where if you signed a striker from another Premier League side for £12m you'd expect him to be one of the best in the Premier League. Those players now cost £25m+.

 

You can get better value for money abroad, but in terms of buying a striker who has proven to be useful in the Premier League, Long at £12m has been a good purchase. Lucky for us Saints aren't run by Saint Charlie and won't sell him in the summer at a loss.

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