Goalkeeper Issue

[Brumsaint]

I did initially think the rumours around signing Strakosha must be rubbish, but seeing Ralph doesn't have faith in any of the keepers we have, it does make sense if we know we'll be able to shift at least two of them: https://www.givemesport.com/1694152-southampton-transfer-rumours-saints-interested-in-serie-a-goalkeeper-who-was-once-valued-at-43m

 

[TWar]

41 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

One thing is for sure, we won't be buying another GK while we still have 2 first team GKs on our books*. Who is going to take FF or AM?

 

* Assuming Gunn goes back to Stoke

Celtic could be back in for Forster, I here there other guy has flopped. Gunn could end up at Norwich apparently.

[DT]

11 hours ago, Super_Uwe said:

McCarthy for me is superior to Forster.

However he seems to have lost his way after contracting coronavirus. Hard to say whether that's the cause of his poor form or not, might just be coincidence. Hopefully though he will be back to his best soon.

Might be nice if Ralph noticed how bad he has been (for ages) and - I dunno - dropped him for the keeper in form? Call me old fashioned...

Need to shift McCarthy out, along with Redmond, potentially to clubs coming up. Reinvest in players that are good enough for the Prem. A keeper is SO important. 

[TWar]

Just now, DT said:

Might be nice if Ralph noticed how bad he has been (for ages) and - I dunno - dropped him for the keeper in form? Call me old fashioned...

Need to shift McCarthy out, along with Redmond, potentially to clubs coming up. Reinvest in players that are good enough for the Prem. A keeper is SO important. 

Forster has hardly been in form. Less glaring howlers admittedly but -0.14 goals prevented per 90. Macca is admittedly worse, with -0.29 per 90, but neither is any good. When the season is over I think alternating to see who can step up is a fair thing to do. Especially when statistically Macca was actually alright last season and had a positive goals prevented.

[DT]

Personally think Macca's distribution is poor and Forster's presence is better. Also deserves credit from coming back from the mental issues/lack of confidence Macca now appears to have. Macca invisible on penalties. Forster seems to have a better record (could be wrong). I don't know, it just seems that Forster instils more confidence. When the ball goes back to Macca I always get the jitters as if he is going to do an absolute howler. Maybe it's Davis' tutelage!

Time to invest in someone decent at the back. Make a decent spine, with discipline and rigour, and that will go a long way to improving us next season. Not sure I can see it at present.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Personally think Macca's distribution is poor and Forster's presence is better. Also deserves credit from coming back from the mental issues/lack of confidence Macca now appears to have. Macca invisible on penalties. Forster seems to have a better record (could be wrong). I don't know, it just seems that Forster instils more confidence. When the ball goes back to Macca I always get the jitters as if he is going to do an absolute howler. Maybe it's Davis' tutelage!

Time to invest in someone decent at the back. Make a decent spine, with discipline and rigour, and that will go a long way to improving us next season. Not sure I can see it at present.

Yeah I agree. I think the one big advantage Macca has is that he is a couple of years younger. I also worry that if Fraser spends time on the bench his lack of confidence might creep back in whereas Macca has spent a lot of his career as a back up keeper.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

Yeah I agree. I think the one big advantage Macca has is that he is a couple of years younger. I also worry that if Fraser spends time on the bench his lack of confidence might creep back in whereas Macca has spent a lot of his career as a back up keeper.

There’s a good reason for that.

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s a good reason for that.

I don't disagree, but if both are keepers are pretty equally hopeless and we are getting a new first choice keeper, experience as backup isn't a bad thing.

[JustinSFC]

For context, we've conceded 65 fucking goals this season, it's entirely possible we don't have a goalkeeper issue. 

This is a tactical problem more than anything else.

We do need better keepers.

Someone shouted the Accrington lad.

We won't get him, he's linked with a ton of clubs including Manchester United.

[igsey]

Can we swap Fraser and Mo for Eduoard from Celtic?

Personally think both Fraser and McCarthy are liabilities, though I'm not sure what McCarthy was doing against Leeds, both goals were appalling.

How has Gunn done at Stoke? I know he's been injured but think he was back for the end of the season.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, igsey said:

Can we swap Fraser and Mo for Eduoard from Celtic?

Personally think both Fraser and McCarthy are liabilities, though I'm not sure what McCarthy was doing against Leeds, both goals were appalling.

How has Gunn done at Stoke? I know he's been injured but think he was back for the end of the season.

I know what you mean, I had just about settled for a goalless draw.

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, igsey said:

How has Gunn done at Stoke? I know he's been injured but think he was back for the end of the season.

Started okay. Got injured. Returned a few months later and did okay. Then the first choice keeper got fit again and that was that. Played one of Stoke's last 10 matches - in which he was, let's say, not overly impressive...

I don't think Stoke fans - the handful that can communicate using language - were entirely convinced by Gunny's skills.

[Cartman]

24 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Started okay. Got injured. Returned a few months later and did okay. Then the first choice keeper got fit again and that was that. Played one of Stoke's last 10 matches - in which he was, let's say, not overly impressive...

I don't think Stoke fans - the handful that can communicate using language - were entirely convinced by Gunny's skills.

Most shocking thing about that video is that according to the advertising boards, they have a university.

From what I was able to find out, this is their science department:

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

 In which he was, let's say, not overly impressive...

 

I don't think he does anything particularly bad in that video. The last goal he had an obscured view.

[Appy]

58 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I don't think he does anything particularly bad in that video. The last goal he had an obscured view.

It’s a low shot, that he should save, it’s not in the corner. 
 

It’s a weird one with Gunn, he looked good in his first 3-4 months under Ralph, then came back at the start of last season and his confidence looked shot, even before the Leicester game. 

[saintquin]

Don't think it matters what keeper we get. Our "goal keeper" coach will soon make them shit!

[Katalinic]

2 minutes ago, saintquin said:

Don't think it matters what keeper we get. Our "goal keeper" coach will soon make them shit!

The new keeper coach is actually decent.

[Billy the Kidd]

Wait, just catching up on this thread.

So, to accommodate the sheer number of keepers we have on insane wages, we are hiring an actual coach?

As in to drive them all around?

[Saint_clark]

10 hours ago, TWar said:

Yeah I agree. I think the one big advantage Macca has is that he is a couple of years younger. I also worry that if Fraser spends time on the bench his lack of confidence might creep back in whereas Macca has spent a lot of his career as a back up keeper.

Being a couple of years younger isn't a benefit when looking for first choice keeper. We in the UK have become obsessed with the idea of finding a 22-23 year old keeper who will be solid for 15 years at our clubs when in reality all bar a couple of keepers are at their best when they're in their 30s. 

[Nordic Saint]

11 hours ago, Brumsaint said:

I did initially think the rumours around signing Strakosha must be rubbish, but seeing Ralph doesn't have faith in any of the keepers we have, it does make sense if we know we'll be able to shift at least two of them: https://www.givemesport.com/1694152-southampton-transfer-rumours-saints-interested-in-serie-a-goalkeeper-who-was-once-valued-at-43m

 

Another backup goalkeeper, with the bonus that he has dodgy knees. He's not even the first choice for Albania.

You can see here why Lazio want to offload him:

Thomas Strakosha - Stats 20/21 | Transfermarkt

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Another backup goalkeeper, with the bonus that he has dodgy knees. He's not even the first choice for Albania.

You can see here why Lazio want to offload him:

Thomas Strakosha - Stats 20/21 | Transfermarkt

Is he the Albanian Tommy Fourpast ?

[Edmonton Saint]

McCarthy bottom in expected saves last season. A very poor goalie. I hope he doesn’t get a new contract.

[SNSUN]

2 hours ago, DarrenLeTiss said:

McCarthy bottom in expected saves last season. A very poor goalie. I hope he doesn’t get a new contract.

Areola would be a good signing if we can get him.  Nip that position in the bud before it gets any worse. Actually I'd take any of the relegated keepers over McCarthy. If it is him and Forster next season, I truly hope Fraser is the favoured one. 

[Kenilworthy]

I really don't understand why any club is reluctant to invest decent money in a keeper because its one area of the team where you can make a major difference with just one sogning. Look at how Villa have improved with a new keeper. Brian Clough used to say that Shilton was worth 10 points a season. That was when it was only 2 points for a win so more like 15 points nowadays. With a really good keeper we could possibly get away with our current central defence.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

I really don't understand why any club is reluctant to invest decent money in a keeper because its one area of the team where you can make a major difference with just one sogning. Look at how Villa have improved with a new keeper. Brian Clough used to say that Shilton was worth 10 points a season. That was when it was only 2 points for a win so more like 15 points nowadays. With a really good keeper we could possibly get away with our current central defence.

We have put decent money into keepers. Forster is on an eye watering contract. Gunn cost good money. We've spent the money, but got mediocrity. Indeed, we've done that all over the squad. 

Spending money (on keepers or otherwise) hasn't been our issue. It's what we've spent it on. 

We have 3 keepers costing us circa £200k a week. That's £10 million a year. Mental money. With that kind of outlay, we ain't getting another keeper.

My guess is that rather than upgrading, we'd be happy to lose 2 of them, and go with whoever is left plus Lewis as back up. I'm not saying that is good enough, it isn't, but if the club have that option, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. 

[Badger]

28 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

I really don't understand why any club is reluctant to invest decent money in a keeper because its one area of the team where you can make a major difference with just one sogning. Look at how Villa have improved with a new keeper. Brian Clough used to say that Shilton was worth 10 points a season. That was when it was only 2 points for a win so more like 15 points nowadays. With a really good keeper we could possibly get away with our current central defence.

"Build from the back" used to be the mantra. 

[goneawol]

8 hours ago, DarrenLeTiss said:

McCarthy bottom in expected saves last season. A very poor goalie. I hope he doesn’t get a new contract.

 

He makes Chris Sutton's Euro squad..😕

Goalkeepers (3): Henderson, McCarthy, Pickford

Defenders (8): Alexander-Arnold, Chilwell, James, Maguire, Mings, Shaw, Stones, Walker

Midfielders (7): Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Henderson, Mount, Phillips, Rice

Forwards (8): Bamford, Calvert-Lewin, Greenwood, Kane, Rashford, Saka, Sancho, Sterling

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

"Build from the back" used to be the mantra. 

It still is.

[Piran]

44 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It still is.

If it is, Saints ain't doing it!

[St_Tel49]

On 18/05/2021 at 21:43, Badger said:

Thought he'd moved on to spreading his wisdom to the outfield players, which in itself might be a part of the wider problem.

Didn't we bring another GK coach to take on that role, Sparks ? 

Agree that we should be trawling Spain, Italy and Germany for a replacement.

Aaron Ramsdale impressed me every time I have seen him play

[igsey]

From The Athletic today. 

 

 

[Matthew Le God]

No validation of this being true but...

 

[Charlie Wayman]

Bring back Brad Friedel

[skintsaint]

6 hours ago, igsey said:

From The Athletic today. 

 

 

Surprised to see who no21 is. McCarthy going on those stats is almost twice as bad as KS though. Typically the Palace keeper played well when we lost to them earlier in the season, always was rubbish.

[Matthew Le God]

12 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Bring back Brad Friedel

'Back'? Are you confusing him with Kasey Keller?

Edited 26 May, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Neef]

13 hours ago, igsey said:

From The Athletic today. 

 

 

I remember the same happening with Gunn the year before that. 

These stats are undoubtedly poor, but I do think there's something about the quality of chances we give away to opposition that bleeds into this. 

There are so many games this season where we seem to offer up the simplest of goal-scoring oppurtunities. The Rice goal on the weekend is another example of that. In turn I think it makes it difficult for the Goalkeepers (practically and confidence wise too) because the protection around them is so fragile at times. 

[Butthole_Surfer]

What about Jasper Cillessen from Valencia? As Valencia seems to be in a bad financial state he could be available for cheap.
He's experienced (might last a few more years), doesn't have two left feet and might save a penalty here and there 😉

 

[cloggy saint]

6 minutes ago, Butthole_Surfer said:

What about Jasper Cillessen from Valencia? As Valencia seems to be in a bad financial state he could be available for cheap.
He's experienced (might last a few more years), doesn't have two left feet and might save a penalty here and there 😉

 

No, no and no again, better off with what we already have.

[danjosaint]

Said it before if we sold all 3 and that's a massive if, get Romero in from utd and Toby Savin in who can learn from him 

[TWar]

On 25/05/2021 at 10:13, goneawol said:

He makes Chris Sutton's Euro squad..😕

Goalkeepers (3): Henderson, McCarthy, Pickford

Defenders (8): Alexander-Arnold, Chilwell, James, Maguire, Mings, Shaw, Stones, Walker

Midfielders (7): Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Henderson, Mount, Phillips, Rice

Forwards (8): Bamford, Calvert-Lewin, Greenwood, Kane, Rashford, Saka, Sancho, Sterling

That's the worse England squad I've ever seen. Three centerbacks, one of them being Mings, and three rightbacks?! Then he has three center forwards and Greenwood and Rashford who can also play there, Grealish and Foden listed as midfielders despite both playing as forwards all season. He is bringing 3 CBs for two roles, 5 CMs for three roles and 10 forwards for three roles?! Absolute nutter. If we play 3atb its even more ridiculous. 

[cloggy saint]

19 minutes ago, TWar said:

That's the worse England squad I've ever seen. 

I guess you weren't around 1992-1995.

[Badger]

Just now, cloggy saint said:

I guess you weren't around 1992-1995.

Is that the glorious era of Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer ?

[TWar]

1 minute ago, cloggy saint said:

I guess you weren't around 1992-1995.

I didn't mean in terms of quality, I ment as a suggestion for how we should construct it. 10 forwards and 3 cbs is just insane.

[SKD]

14 minutes ago, TWar said:

I didn't mean in terms of quality, I ment as a suggestion for how we should construct it. 10 forwards and 3 cbs is just insane.

Not really. Walker and James have both played as a 3rd CB in a 3 and Walker done it pretty well at the last World Cup. 
 

Foden and Grealish could be seen as players who can play in the middle of the park in a more advanced role (if you play a 3) and we don’t really have any other CM’s (you could argue a case for JWP) that are ripping up trees to get in there. 
 

We are strongest, by a long way, in attack. Why not play to your strengths and go top heavy. I’d rather that than chucking a CB or CM who aren’t very good and will just sit on the bench the whole tournament. 
 

‘the worst squad I’ve ever seen’ is a massive over exaggeration. 

Edited 26 May, 2021 by SKD

[TWar]

23 minutes ago, SKD said:

Not really. Walker and James have both played as a 3rd CB in a 3 and Walker done it pretty well at the last World Cup. 
 

Foden and Grealish could be seen as players who can play in the middle of the park in a more advanced role (if you play a 3) and we don’t really have any other CM’s (you could argue a case for JWP) that are ripping up trees to get in there. 
 

We are strongest, by a long way, in attack. Why not play to your strengths and go top heavy. I’d rather that than chucking a CB or CM who aren’t very good and will just sit on the bench the whole tournament. 
 

‘the worst squad I’ve ever seen’ is a massive over exaggeration. 

If we are playing 3atb (considering your 3rd CB comment) then it is 5 cbs for three roles which is still insane, and for two of them to be out of position fullbacks is even more mental! Also not sure about James as a CB, lad is 5'7'', not sure I fancy that!

Neither Foden nor Grealish has played almost at all outside of the front three all season, it's why they are forwards in the actual England squad. JWP could be added which would be 6 for 3 roles, which is probably fine.

We may be strongest in attack but that doesn't mean we want less than two players to every role. How can you have a 26 man squad and not have two to every role? Why so you can have Bamford and Greenwood sit on the bench as 4th/5th choice in their chosen role? Whats the point? 0 balance in that. They sit on the bench until we get an injury or two at CB and suddenly we are lining up against Germany with Walker Mings James as a back 3, or a pairing of Walker Mings not all the talented CBs which missed out like Dunk, Tark, Coady. And why, well if we lose 5 other players it would be a shame not to have Greenwood as 6th choice.

Edited 26 May, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

If we are playing 3atb (considering your 3rd CB comment) then it is 5 cbs for three roles which is still insane, and for two of them to be out of position fullbacks is even more mental!

Neither Foden nor Grealish has played almost at all outside of the front three all season, it's why they are forwards in the actual England squad. JWP could be added which would be 6 for 3 roles, which is probably fine.

We may be strongest in attack but that doesn't mean we want less than two players to every role. How can you have a 26 man squad and not have two to every role? Why so you can have Bamford and Greenwood sit on the bench as 4th/5th choice in their chosen role? Whats the point? 0 balance in that.

Personally, (excluding McCarthy, that is an awful shout) I’d probably take out mings for Godfrey and maybe Add JWP for maybe Saka and that’d be pretty close to what I’d take. Adding 2 (pretty average players who probably won’t play), doesn’t contribute to ‘the worst squad I’ve ever seen’. That was clearly a massive exaggeration. 

But a reason to go with more attackers is that if we’re behind in a game, there the players who can change it for you. 

Foden and Grelish haven’t played outside a front 3 for their club (this season - the have previously), but that’s not to say they couldn’t for England. After all, the competition for places is a lot stronger. 

He’ll likely have a settled 11- 16 that’ll play pretty much every game, so for 10 or so tournament games, you don’t need a huge amount of depth and balance. You need a little bit of cover and players who can win you a game. Attackers do that. 

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, SKD said:

Personally, (excluding McCarthy, that is an awful shout) I’d probably take out mings for Godfrey and maybe Add JWP for maybe Saka and that’d be pretty close to what I’d take. Adding 2 (pretty average players who probably won’t play), doesn’t contribute to ‘the worst squad I’ve ever seen’. That was clearly a massive exaggeration. 

But a reason to go with more attackers is that if we’re behind in a game, there the players who can change it for you. 

Foden and Grelish haven’t played outside a front 3 for their club (this season - the have previously), but that’s not to say they couldn’t for England. After all, the competition for places is a lot stronger. 

He’ll likely have a settled 11- 16 that’ll play pretty much every game, so for 10 or so tournament games, you don’t need a huge amount of depth and balance. You need a little bit of cover and players who can win you a game. Attackers do that. 

3 cbs is not enough depth for a centerback pairing, and 5cbs (if you can call James a CB) is not enough for 3 at the back. It is as simple as that. Two injuries could easily happen in a given position and then we are fucked. Greenwood as a forward will only get on the pitch if all but one of Grealish, Foden, Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, and Saka are unavailable. It's a pretty simple concept, it doesn't matter what you think about these players relative quality, what matters is we have depth in case something happens to our first team. If we have two CB injuries we can't shove Greenwood in there, no matter how good he is. This is why our last 26 man squad had 5 cbs as well as Walker and James. Because going into a tournament with only one spare CB is potential suicide. 

Edited 26 May, 2021 by TWar

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

 This is why our last 26 man squad had 5 cbs as well as Walker and James. 

When was this 26 man squad then? 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

When was this 26 man squad then? 

March: https://www.thefa.com/news/2021/mar/18/england-mens-senior-squad-named-for-march-internationals-20210318

Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Manchester United), Sam Johnstone (West Bromwich Albion), Nick Pope (Burnley)

Defenders: Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolverhampton Wanderers), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Reece James (Chelsea), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Kyle Walker (Manchester City)

Midfielders: Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jesse Lingard (West Ham United, loan from Manchester United), Mason Mount (Chelsea), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds United), Declan Rice (West Ham United), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton)

Forwards: Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton),   Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa)

 

[SKD]

37 minutes ago, TWar said:

3 cbs is not enough depth for a centerback pairing, and 5cbs (if you can call James a CB) is not enough for 3 at the back. It is as simple as that. Two injuries could easily happen in a given position and then we are fucked. Greenwood as a forward will only get on the pitch if all but one of Grealish, Foden, Sterling, Rashford, Sancho, and Saka are unavailable. It's a pretty simple concept, it doesn't matter what you think about these players relative quality, what matters is we have depth in case something happens to our first team. If we have two CB injuries we can't shove Greenwood in there, no matter how good he is. This is why our last 26 man squad had 5 cbs as well as Walker and James. Because going into a tournament with only one spare CB is potential suicide. 

I don’t disagree that, the suggest squad above, is probably a CB short. But that CB is there for cover in the unlikely event of 2 injuries to our CB’s. There’s a argument that Rice can cover there, worse case. 

1 back up CB over 1 back up forward, clearly doesn’t make it the worse squad you’ve ever seen though, does it. 

Rice, Henderson, Bellingham, Phillips & mount is ample cover in midfield.  Foden and Lingaard are both listed as midfielders in the last England squad, so that argument doesn’t stand up either.