Saints 0-1 Wolves - Match Thread

[The Left Back]

Just back from a very frustrating game.  Apart from two 10 minute spells either side of half time I though we were very flat and disjointed.  We just couldn't get anything going.  Wolves did a real number on us.  Their setup seemed just right to nullify our passing game and they made us look very ordinary.  They pushed their wing backs up very high and were brave on ball.  They used used Moutinho as a quarter back and we couldn't get near him.  Having said that they didn't really threaten much.  Apart from a save in the first minute McCarthy had nothing much to do.  We are definitely lacking in creativity and risk-taking.  Too many playing the safe pass rather than trying to unlock.  It was obvious Ralph spotted this at half time because early in the second half we managed to get passes in round the corner and make a few chances.  But the game was so open at that stage and their goal from the one moment of quality from the classiest striker on the pitch.

Was amazed to see we had 18 shots and 6 on target, compared to their 5 and 3.  It didn't feel like that at all and just shows how misleading stats can be.  As for our 57% possession, 95% of that was a safe pass going nowhere.  

It's hard for me to pick anyone that played well and that speaks volumes. I actually thought Redmond did OK, but that was only compared to the rest.  Tino was alright I suppose but not as good as he has been. I think miss Stephens as we need our centre backs to be brave enough to take the ball into midfield, which neither Bednarek or Salisu are very good at.  

I'm not worried about the result or our position in the table (still too early for all that) but the performance was concerning.

Finally not sure what's happening with Tella; it seems very strange to me that he's not starting or at least getting on.

[JRM]

37 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

The problem is, we need to score to win. Where’s that goal going to come from?

Adams P71 G13 18.3%

A Armstrong P6 1G 16.7%

Redmond P172 G20 11.6%

Elyanoussi P22 G4 18%

Djenepo P51 G3 5.9%

JWP P275 G31 11.3%

Romeu P186 G5 2.9%

No one better then a goal every 5 games...

 

That was our gamble this season, Ings might have had a poor season anyway but we've traded in his goals and hoped Armstrong could step up. Big risk. 

[OttawaSaint]

6 minutes ago, JRM said:

That was our gamble this season, Ings might have had a poor season anyway but we've traded in his goals and hoped Armstrong could step up. Big risk. 

We’d better hope that when they do score that that defence are wide wake that day...

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, JRM said:

That was our gamble this season, Ings might have had a poor season anyway but we've traded in his goals and hoped Armstrong could step up. Big risk. 

It’s not a risk, we basically didn’t have a choice. 

[OttawaSaint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not a risk, we basically didn’t have a choice. 

Pretty much. This season is always going to be one where we hold our breath and hope for the best. If we can survive the future will hopefully be brighter with all the salary and dead wood we shifted.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

you guys are getting excited over a few draws.

Name one person getting "excited" over a few draws. I'll wait. 

 

Edited 26 September, 2021 by trousers

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not a risk, we basically didn’t have a choice. 

It was a shitty situation but there is always a choice. 

[Didcot Saint]

Everyone is blaming Bednarek, but Raul shirt pulled him back big time then pushed him to gain control of the ball and get away. It was right in front of me. Blatant foul.

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Didcot Saint said:

Everyone is blaming Bednarek, but Raul shirt pulled him back big time then pushed him to gain control of the ball and get away. It was right in front of me. Blatant foul.

Should have been stronger and given as good as he got.

[wild-saint]

Walker Peters on the right is a waste of a player. He had multiple chances first half to get a decent ball in with his left that was wasted. It feels like he is only playing to keep him happy when the obvious choice would be to play Perraud who is  actually capable of a decent delivery. It looks so unbalanced.

it’s not even worth commenting on Redmond.

The changes Ralph made when they scored left us looking confused as to how they were meant to be playing.

It’s baffling that a premier league manage can’t seem to see the obvious line up having perraud at LB, KWP at right with tino right mid / inside right. Why do managers have to try and make it seem they are tactical a tactical genius ignoring the obvious.

as for Long coming on just made me think he has lost the plot.

 

 

 

[wild-saint]

4 minutes ago, Didcot Saint said:

Everyone is blaming Bednarek, but Raul shirt pulled him back big time then pushed him to gain control of the ball and get away. It was right in front of me. Blatant foul.

I thought that too and was stunned that the players didn’t even shout for the foul. 

[LiberalCommunist]

Especially as Jim had gone to ground at every opportunity up to that point. If Bedders had dragged him down, they would have been surrounding the ref and demanding him to upgrade the yellow for ten minutes.

But there's no getting away from how bad we were today. Utterly clueless. Thank goodness we face a great team next week, we may well stand a chance! 

[hasper57saint]

Local Wolves fans tell me they didn’t have much hope for a win. But as we are so ineffective in the box they feel lucky today. Why didn’t Bednarek stay on his feet and shoulder Jimenez off the ball. Jimmy Case would have had in the adverts. Yet another dismal display from a team that can’t seem to gel. Last week outstanding and unlucky not to win. This week abysmal and deserve to lose. Ralph needs to take a good look at himself. No more excuses.,he selects the team and therefore shoulders the responsibility. 

[OttawaSaint]

2 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

I thought that too and was stunned that the players didn’t even shout for the foul. 

What our lot? Nah, they just accept everything put their heads down and trudge back to the halfway line. 

[LGTL]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not a risk, we basically didn’t have a choice. 

The choice was we sell or we keep him and let him go for free next summer. Relegation will cost us a lot more then £20million so it was actually a big risk. Yeah he might have sulked but ultimately he would have got on with it. 

[OttawaSaint]

There’s no one out there like a Case, Cockerill, Townsend or Horne out there rallying the troops. JWP just shrugs and takes it and that sets the tone for the whole team.

[SaintSteve]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

That was a game bereft of any quality really. It was harem-scarem for large parts as both sides kept giving the ball away, no one had control of the game at any stage and it was just turn over after turn over with blanks being fired.

Both sides got into decent positions, but we looked toothless when we did.

Adams is Adams, a hard worker but incredibly limited in a technical sense. Armstrong looks like he's struggling a little with the pace of the game and the strength of the CB’s, he makes good movements but his touch and decision making isn't there at the moment. There are goals in him though, as long as the supporting players actually turn up…

But the number 10's for me are the problem. Hopeless, absolutely hopeless, every single one of them. Moussa, Elyonoussi, Redmond, just regurgitated garbage and whilst they're our options then we will struggle to break anyone down. As has been the issue since every one of them have been at this club. Their decision making is beyond awful everytime they get the ball, it's baffling how they've made it to this level.

Bednarek for the goal was disgusting, absolutely diabolical defending and he has to be stronger than that. I have no idea what's happened to him. He was never amazing, but he was reliable, these days he is just a walking error.

Felt a bit lopsided with KWP left, with him having to cut in all the time. I still want us to find a way to get Tino and KWP on the same side.

Overall, though, the inevitable has happened. We've sold our only source of goals; the sole reason we've stayed up for the last couple of years. We've replaced him with a young player from the championship who is going to take time. And thus we’re struggling to score goals because the rest of the attack is shit and aren’t stepping up, as we all expected really.

A win today would have made this a decent start, but the defeat has turned this into an awful start. It's getting into the realms of a psychological block if we keep going on like this. If we get through Leeds, Burnley, and Watford still without a win then we are staring at the inevitable I hate to say. So, let’s see where we are after 10.

Just about sums up today’s debacle..however, I’d go one step further as I believe a change of coach would change the way we play and improve the team. I’d rather watch Howe’s attacking philosophy than Ralph’s turgid football, whether we are relegated or not.

[OttawaSaint]

I think Ralph has taken us about as far as he can. Another manager would have a different philosophy and perhaps the competition for places new manager would create would help.

Trouble is, we’d need to get this appointment spot on and I’m not confident we would.

[fanimal]

Don’t get why Perraud and Moussa worked so well against WH but didn’t start today??

set up for Tino to play in front of KWP so obvious!!

how that Elyounoussi stayed on after ht is beyond me sorry he’s had a chance but no end product 

just so frustrating yet again 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

16 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

There’s no one out there like a Case, Cockerill, Townsend or Horne out there rallying the troops. JWP just shrugs and takes it and that sets the tone for the whole team.

The thing is, I don't think the manager necessarily wants the players fired up with emotion. He wants them to execute the gameplan effectively. I see the logic of that although I'm sure some will disagree

[trousers]

32 minutes ago, Didcot Saint said:

Everyone is blaming Bednarek, but Raul shirt pulled him back big time then pushed him to gain control of the ball and get away. It was right in front of me. Blatant foul.

 

26 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

I thought that too and was stunned that the players didn’t even shout for the foul. 

 

22 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

What our lot? Nah, they just accept everything put their heads down and trudge back to the halfway line. 

Was just about to post the same. Most other sides would have been in the ref's face trying to put doubt in his mind. Whilst it was probably reviewed by VAR quietly in the background, I always feel our players are too nice when it comes to this kinda thing. Note how annoying Wolves players were towards the end with their faux injuries and general time wasting. We need to be more of a PITA. Small margins and all that. 

Edited 26 September, 2021 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

What a shitty game. I know that we were poor but Wolves have lost any respect that I might have had for their illustrious past. Lying around all over the place like a bunch of cripples. Nast, niggling, destructive, whatever happened to the beautiful game? I go to watch football even if it is the other team that’s playing it.

Only six minutes of added time, twenty-five of which were for their goal celebration, substitutions and above all, time wasting.

[OttawaSaint]

7 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

The thing is, I don't think the manager necessarily wants the players fired up with emotion. He wants them to execute the gameplan effectively. I see the logic of that although I'm sure some will disagree

To quote Capt. Blackadder, “we have battle plans?”.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

To quote Capt. Blackadder, “we have battle plans?”.

Mate, did you see that blog about our tactics for Man C? We've got plans up the wazoo

[OttawaSaint]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Mate, did you see that blog about our tactics for Man C? We've got plans up the wazoo

Do any of them have anything about putting yer foot through it and finding the net?

We seem to just recycle 3 plans

a) slow everything down and knock in easy floaty crosses

b) pass sideways and back

c) fanny about with it

[nta786]

29 minutes ago, trousers said:

Was just about to post the same. Most other sides would have been in the ref's face trying to put doubt in his mind. Whilst it was probably reviewed by VAR quietly in the background, I always feel our players are too nice when it comes to this kinda thing. Note how annoying Wolves players were towards the end with their faux injuries and general time wasting. We need to be more of a PITA. Small margins and all that. 

Haha remember these articles?

https://www.prostinternational.com/2020/11/04/nice-guys-southampton-have-mastered-footballs-dark-arts/

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/england-james-ward-prowse-iceland-a4541256.html

"It's something which we can all take forward, for sure. Certainly at club level we have developed that ourselves as well and we've learned a lot with that, so it's just something that has added to my game. It's an important factor in the modern game. 

"There are certain scenarios in a game and you have to take yourself out of the situation and see what is best at that time. Maybe we had the reputation of being a bit too nice, so we had to show a bit more aggression and a bit of that darker side in order to help us win games. It's just something that I have learned along the way."

I wonder where it has gone this season then or  did Hogwarts want its Professor for the Dark Arts back? 

[Colinjb]

My take away from this is that teams know how to play against us, exactly as they did in the second half of last season. Sit deep, mark our strikers out and be hard to break down. We havn't got enough individual flair to be a pain so if you can keep us under wraps you have a chance on the break.

Defensively we are better this year but still vulnerable to the same sucker punches as before. What worked against West Ham and Man City came unstuck against Wolves today.

[OttawaSaint]

We’re so nice that I’d half expect one of ours to say, “sorry Ref I think I fouled him while scoring there, you might want to take a look at the screen”, but then I remembered that we don't actually put the ball in the net.

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Terrible experience all round really mate! Looked a good 4000 empty seats again, can see why people don't bother sometimes. Leeds at home in a few weeks on general sale will be loads of Leeds in home end. 

We played some decent stuff at times but look so toothless up front, a good forward line for the championship which is where we heading at this rate. 

They announced the attendance as 28002. Stadium looked busier than for West Ham but still plenty of spare seats knocking around.

We desperately need Stuart Armstrong back to link play together and provide some drive in the final third. We were so predictable today. At least Djenepo tried to run at them, pity his final ball is often wasted.

Now could be the time to start pushing Livramento forward in training and working on having him and KWP as the right side with Perraud and Djenepo on the left.

 

[egg]

35 minutes ago, fanimal said:

Don’t get why Perraud and Moussa worked so well against WH but didn’t start today??

set up for Tino to play in front of KWP so obvious!!

how that Elyounoussi stayed on after ht is beyond me sorry he’s had a chance but no end product 

just so frustrating yet again 

Re Perraud, he's just not very good. Had he played and Traore started down their right, he'd have battered him. I suspect Ralph expected Traore to play so played KWP instead. The right call for me. 

If KWP plays RB and Tino ahead of him, it means Perraud at LB. I'm guessing Ralph would rather have an average 10 on the right than have to play Perraud. I'm with him on that. 

The only reason I would imagine Redmond plays is because Djenepo loses possession time and time again, so Redmond is felt the safer option. It's shit, but a luxury player or an average one is a shit hand for Ralph. 

Elyonoussi. Yeah, fuck knows what that's all about. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Re Perraud, he's just not very good. Had he played and Traore started down their right, he'd have battered him. I suspect Ralph expected Traore to play so played KWP instead. The right call for me. 

If KWP plays RB and Tino ahead of him, it means Perraud at LB. I'm guessing Ralph would rather have an average 10 on the right than have to play Perraud. I'm with him on that. 

The only reason I would imagine Redmond plays is because Djenepo loses possession time and time again, so Redmond is felt the safer option. It's shit, but a luxury player or an average one is a shit hand for Ralph. 

Elyonoussi. Yeah, fuck knows what that's all about. 

If Perraud isn't very good than that surely is on Ralph? He seemed to be very keen on having him 

[whelk]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

If Perraud isn't very good than that surely is on Ralph? He seemed to be very keen on having him 

Last time Perraud played he was ok. This place is a joke after a defeat. 
 

[Winnersaint]

Here we go again defeat at home to a relative bogey team and the sky caves in. Ralph, get rid. Redmond the perennial scapegoat. Tactics wrong, subs nonsensical. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Shit happens. Dust yourself down it’s only Stamford Bridge next week.  Yes I did watch on Sky.

Edited 26 September, 2021 by Winnersaint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Last time Perraud played he was ok. This place is a joke after a defeat. 
 

Haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement to be honest. Just another one of Ralph's mysterious team selections that he would rather play a right back as a left back.

[egg]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

If Perraud isn't very good than that surely is on Ralph? He seemed to be very keen on having him 

Others seem to rate him, but I just don't see it and I can understand why he doesn't play. If his signing was Ralph's choice, then it's on him. 

[redder freak]

1 hour ago, Didcot Saint said:

Everyone is blaming Bednarek, but Raul shirt pulled him back big time then pushed him to gain control of the ball and get away. It was right in front of me. Blatant foul.

Reminds of the Burnley route 1 goal last season - Vydra? Opposing managers must know it’s a Saints weakness. Although it shouldn’t be at this level.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Winnersaint said:

Here we go again defeat at home to a relative bogey team and the sky caves in. Ralph, get rid. Redmond the perennial scapegoat. Tactics wrong, subs nonsensical. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Shit happens. Dust yourself down it’s only Stamford Bridge next week.  

Trouble is the cycle has been going on for well over a year now. 

[The Cat]

Just now, whelk said:

Last time Perraud played he was ok. This place is a joke after a defeat. 
 

Yeah, he was fine against West Ham although that's the only time I've seen him in the flesh. 

KWP did pretty well today apart from when he had to cross with his left foot, at which point his technique was about as sound as my golf swing when I used to hack the ball around the municipal. 

 

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Here we go again defeat at home to a relative bogey team and the sky caves in. Ralph, get rid. Redmond the perennial scapegoat. Tactics wrong, subs nonsensical. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Shit happens. Dust yourself down it’s only Stamford Bridge next week.  Yes I did watch on Sky.

Shit is the norm, it doesn’t just “happen”. 5 wins in 2021

Edited 26 September, 2021 by Toussaint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Others seem to rate him, but I just don't see it and I can understand why he doesn't play. If his signing was Ralph's choice, then it's on him. 

We had plenty of other options to go for, and Ralph seemed hell bent on getting him. Unless it was forced upon him due to lack of funds and he was the only one in our price range.

[JRM]

15 minutes ago, The Cat said:

They announced the attendance as 28002. Stadium looked busier than for West Ham but still plenty of spare seats knocking around.

We desperately need Stuart Armstrong back to link play together and provide some drive in the final third. We were so predictable today. At least Djenepo tried to run at them, pity his final ball is often wasted.

Now could be the time to start pushing Livramento forward in training and working on having him and KWP as the right side with Perraud and Djenepo on the left.

 

Yes I think you're right, could be worth trying that at Chelsea. Livramento will be well up for that one. 

[egg]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

Last time Perraud played he was ok. This place is a joke after a defeat. 
 

Last time he played was Sheff Utd. In the limited clips I've seen from that game he looked poor. Playing KWP ahead of him was the right call for me. 

Edited 26 September, 2021 by egg

[warsash saint]

What's happened to our pressing game??  The team has no identity!

 

[eelpie]

I cannot understand why we heroically fight tooth and nail against the powerful, top teams one week, then become supine and spineless against weaker ones the following weekend? Surely, it must be about lack of leadership on the pitch 

Or is it simply that Southampton and area is now too tranquil and easy going to want to succeed week after week?

[OttawaSaint]

If Stu is out for a few more weeks I’d like to see something like this with JWP playing the Stu role. 

KWP Bednarek Salisu Perraud

Diallo Romeu

Tino JWP Tella

Adams/AA

[egg]

2 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

What's happened to our pressing game??  The team has no identity!

 

Yep. For ages I haven't understood what we're about. It's not a pressing game, not a possession game, not really anything obvious apart from defend and counter but we're not great at either of them. 

[trousers]

21 minutes ago, The Cat said:

 

We desperately need Stuart Armstrong back to link play together and provide some drive in the final third.

Now could be the time to start pushing Livramento forward in training 

 

Actually, now you mention it, on the occasions that Livramento drives forward he does remind me of Stuart Armstrong a tad. So, good call I reckon, especially if SA is destined to be out long term.

[egg]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

If Stu is out for a few more weeks I’d like to see something like this with JWP playing the Stu role. 

KWP Bednarek Salisu Perraud

Diallo Romeu

Tino JWP Tella

Adams/AA

Although I'd rather see KWP at LB then Perraud, carrying on with what isn't working can't continue. Personally, I like that formation and in the absence of S Armstrong, playing JWP a bit higher up makes sense. No chance we'll see it though. 

[Manuel]

Just back.  

First of all Jimenez.  Got little service but still looked dangerous.  I thought we might have had someone dedicated to keep on top of him but he seemed to be waltzing around unmarked in our box too often.  As for the goal, I was far away but could clearly see a handful of Jan's shirt in Himenez hand and possibly a kick too.  Was still disappointed that Jan got done.  I feel if Salisu had been in front of Himenez he wouldn't have got to our goal, no matter how much of his shirt he pulled.  

Mc Carthy 6/10 - Saved our embarrassment by saving a shot within the first minute or so.  Dodgy distribution.

Salisu 8/10 (MOTM) - Takes a lot of the player when dispossessing but his timing was good today and I'm not sure he committed a single foul.  Defensively solid.  Generally knocked it forward well and created a few opportunities from our half.  Also looked like the only one with a half chance of getting his head to anything in Wolves box in the second half when pushing forward.  

Bednarek 6/10 - Will need to see the goal again to see if there was a mistake there.  Otherwise reasonable overall.  Stephens alongside Salisu edges it for me ATM.  

Tino - 8/10 - One of the few on the park that wants to get past whoever's in front of him.  Would have got MOTM but felt he was lagging in the second half.    

KWP - 7/10  - Decent but not as creative going forward as we're used to, perhaps the left doesn't suit him.  Didn't link up well with Redmond but doubt that's entirely due to KWP.  

Redmond - 5/10 - Not the player he used to be.  When he did get the ball he rarely used it well.  Lacks confidence and ability at the mo.  

Elyounoussi 6/10 - Marginally better than Redmond.  Nearly a good player at this level.  Has strength and some creative ability and doesn't mind a shot.  Needs to pass better and want the ball more.  

Romeu/JWP - 6/10 - When going forward Romeu sits deep in the CB position far too much for me.  Where's the outlet from there?  Infront of Romeu, Prowse isn't strong or creative enough to make much happen at the best of times and left isolated in the middle is an obvious weakness going forward.  Salisu needs to be the man stepping out of defence, not Romeu.   So much for the "No more Mr Nice Guy" JWP...he was soft today.  Too safe and pedestrian (for a player that apparently runs more than the rest of them).  Needs a kick up the arse.  Diallo alongside Romeu for Chelsea please.

Adams - 7/10 - If only he could shoot.  Pressed better than anyone else, holds it up, passes well, gets into the best positions.  Two great chances not taken.  

Armstrong - 7/10 - Another 'nearly man' today.  Did well.  

Subs - Djenepo frustrating to watch.  All that energy and all those stepovers for nothing.  Broja - Liked his aggression but felt he was a downgrade on Adams today.  Long - Rubbish - absurd substitution.  Was something wrong with Tella today?  

  

 

[OttawaSaint]

Just now, egg said:

Although I'd rather see KWP at LB then Perraud, carrying on with what isn't working can't continue. Personally, I like that formation and in the absence of S Armstrong, playing JWP a bit higher up makes sense. No chance we'll see it though. 

True enough. I feel JWP’s game has gone a bit stale back there with Romeu. Further up he’d be inclined to pick a pass or get on the end of something.