Lighthouse Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Juve have to include all the financials in their communications, so here are all the details - Turin, 31 January 2024 - Juventus Football Club S.p.A. announces that an agreement with Southampton Football Club for the temporary acquisition, until 30 June 2024, of the registration rights of the player Carlos Jonas Alcaraz Duran has been finalized for a consideration of € 3.7 million, with the addition of ancillary costs of € 0.2 million, which might be increased up to a maximum of € 1.9 milion upon achievement of specific sporting performance objectives. The agreement further entails the right for Juventus to definitively acquire the player’s registration rights for an agreed consideration of € 49.5 million, payable in three years, which might be increased upon achievement of further sporting performance objectives over the duration of the employment contract with the player. I wonder if this is just one of those quirky regional laws, whereby loans to Italian clubs must have some form of agreed fee in order to be legal. Rather like how all contracts in Spain must have a minimum release fee, no matter how ludicrously large it is. I'm just guessing because otherwise I agree, it's a rather odd, bordering on pointless, clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Lighthouse said: I wonder if this is just one of those quirky regional laws, whereby loans to Italian clubs must have some form of agreed fee in order to be legal. Rather like how all contracts in Spain must have a minimum release fee, no matter how ludicrously large it is. I'm just guessing because otherwise I agree, it's a rather odd, bordering on pointless, clause. Maybe - it does seem a rather pointless figure plucked out of the air, like you say it's similar to those 1bn release clauses Barca players have had. No chances they pay anywhere near that, they just don't have that sort of spare cash to spend on a Championship player. Puts him in a higher profile shop window though, so if Juve don't cough up someone else might in the PL - or he comes back here as a better player. Lots of winners in this deal whatever way you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Disappointed but I expect I'll soon get over it. If we ho screaming up the table that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) https://x.com/The_AJC_/status/1752786801469665509?t=LYZPllFpLVzm9-KhRatK7Q&s=09 Edited January 31 by Convict Colony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Gotta feel sorry for Charly onto his 2nd new language in 1yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) Hopefully he does really well and then even if they don't take up the option then someone else will at least pay big money for him, or he comes back. Great signing by SR last January really, considering the relatively little outlay, and extending his contract in October was another smart move. As Brighton especially have shown, the south american market does have value. Edited January 31 by Dusic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNumber7 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I'm encouraged by the line from Wilcox about him coming back next season. It's been a frustrating season for Charly but it's clear he has plenty of ability and I think he's more suited to the PL than Championship. Hopefully he'll be back there next season with us! I'll be keeping a keen eye on how he gets on at Juve, whatever happens it's a great move for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) Apparently according to one comment on this thread we are still paying his wages in full. https://www.juventuz.com/threads/carlos-alcaraz.45231/ He hasn't had too much impact this season and with the two lads coming in from Bournemouth that would reduce his minutes. Can see why he wants a crack at Juve. Edited January 31 by skintsaint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldorama Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, skintsaint said: Apparently according to one comment on this thread we are still paying his wages in full. https://www.juventuz.com/threads/carlos-alcaraz.45231/ He hasn't had too much impact this season and with the two lads coming in from Bournemouth that would reduce his minutes. Can see why he wants a crack at Juve. I give that a 0% chance of being true. Why the fuck would we loan him then pay his full wages? No chance 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said: I give that a 0% chance of being true. Why the fuck would we loan him then pay his full wages? No chance The wages are probably wrapped up in the chunky loan fee to be honest, they've just given us his wages up front. Often how loans work tbh. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, Convict Colony said: Gotta feel sorry for Charly onto his 2nd new language in 1yr. Italian is much easier for native Spanish speakers to learn than English is, as there is a fair degree of mutual intelligibility between the two. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 33 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Italian is much easier for native Spanish speakers to learn than English is, as there is a fair degree of mutual intelligibility between the two. Yep used to work with both and they were far better at understanding each other due to the Latin nature of their respective languages 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said: Italian is much easier for native Spanish speakers to learn than English is, as there is a fair degree of mutual intelligibility between the two. Isn’t there some sort of Italian link to the dialect in Argentina anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Fair play to him, shame to see him go but a chance to make a few appearances and perhaps even pick up an Italian league winners medal. Would certainly be funny if he did, also Tella at Leverkusen, any chance Romeu could also lift La Liga with Barca? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, JRM said: Fair play to him, shame to see him go but a chance to make a few appearances and perhaps even pick up an Italian league winners medal. Would certainly be funny if he did, also Tella at Leverkusen, any chance Romeu could also lift La Liga with Barca? Bella-Kotchap could get one at PSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 59 minutes ago, JRM said: Fair play to him, shame to see him go but a chance to make a few appearances and perhaps even pick up an Italian league winners medal. Would certainly be funny if he did, also Tella at Leverkusen, any chance Romeu could also lift La Liga with Barca? Looking more likely to be Gazzanigga at Girona at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldorama Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 12 hours ago, S-Clarke said: The wages are probably wrapped up in the chunky loan fee to be honest, they've just given us his wages up front. Often how loans work tbh. Fair, so Juve are paying his wages then 😂. Just up front instead of monthly. Not sure why someone would bother reporting it as “saints are paying his wages in full still”. There would be zero value in it for us if that were the case 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 23 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said: Fair, so Juve are paying his wages then 😂. Just up front instead of monthly. Not sure why someone would bother reporting it as “saints are paying his wages in full still”. There would be zero value in it for us if that were the case Wouldn’t we save on the extras like match day bonus performance , winning or goal bonus as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said: Wouldn’t we save on the extras like match day bonus performance , winning or goal bonus as well? Possibly none of those are in his contract. I wonder what happens when it comes to fines. Say he goes AWOL from Juve, normally they'd fine him a weeks wages, maybe, but how does that work if the wages come out of our bank account? Do Juve call us and tell us not to pay him this week? I'm getting into the weeds here a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 6 minutes ago, gio1saints said: I’m happy with the Charlie deal and I love Charlie - but I do think there is some naivety around wrt to why it’s happened. Two main reasons: 1. The loan fee covers Charlie’s 6mth wages plus bits and bobs & fees..virtually no “profit”. There is no guarantee he actually plays as far as I’m aware. 2. There’s no chance Juve pay €49m for him in the summer. None. They do not have the money - and would need to sell first or swop at best - and that’s if Charlie has a blinder and scores ten goals plus assists - hence the Soulé swapsie link. Primary thing happening here despite the official sugar coating is that SR are using Juve to value-add our player in a way very unlikely/ almost inconceivable if he was to stay at saints til summer coming off the bench. A type of sports washing if you like. All it means is that we get his wages paid for 6 months and then he’s back. SR hope the experience will increase his skills & transfer value - but certainly the kudos of having played for Juve will enhance his selling value alone. The €49M option price is simply hype to to make possible summer suitors raise their bid level if they want to take him on board when Juve ( probably) reject the opportunity. It’s just clever business sense neatly marketed and credibly-on-the-surface at least packaged as a player development opportunity. Im not dissing it or Saints- but it’s not all about Charlie put it that way- as I’d expect and most mature observers already realise. Posted this in wrong place previously apologies. 😇 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Posted this in wrong place previously apologies. 😇 Makes a lot of sense, tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 hours ago, JRM said: Fair play to him, shame to see him go but a chance to make a few appearances and perhaps even pick up an Italian league winners medal. Would certainly be funny if he did, also Tella at Leverkusen, any chance Romeu could also lift La Liga with Barca? He will return in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, gio1saints said: Posted this in wrong place previously apologies. 😇 Good summary amigo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 13 hours ago, Lighthouse said: Isn’t there some sort of Italian link to the dialect in Argentina anyway? I know a musician in Piemonte who went to Argentina to collect old Piemontese traditional songs, such was the emigration from the later 1800s. It was mostly uneducated agricultural workers and their dialect is still maintained in certain parts of Argentina e.g: https://www.cuneodice.it/cultura/cuneo-e-valli/quei-piemontesi-emigrati-in-argentina-che-mantengono-viva-la-storia-del-piemonte_75972.html Edit: the article makes the point that many didn't speak Italian, only dialect. Edited February 1 by suewhistle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlehouseBrawlers Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Juve away to Inter tomorrow, won't feature of course, but Milan...it could have been Rotherham Charly, what were you thinking......................? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) https://www.juventus.com/it/juventus-tv/alcaraz-e-un-sogno-che-si-avvera Charlies interview at Juve. It’s in Argentinian with Italian subtitles but if you are unfamiliar with either here’s a rough n ready paraphrase: Very happy to be here. Will give my all for club and supporters if I get the chance to wear the shirt. Fave player is Ronaldo. I fight and am very competitive on the pitch my fave position is central. Thank you for the thousands of message on Insta. My nickname is Charley. It’s Inter away Sunday big derby I know but I wish I could be in Rotherham with the Saints as it’s a top top stadium and we play a higher level card of football. I still cannot speak a word of English so don’t expect any Italian out of me even if they have so many connecting roots * * This last paragraph I invented for my own personal amusement 🤭 Edited February 3 by gio1saints 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlehouseBrawlers Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On the bench for Juve tonight at the San Siro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said: On the bench for Juve tonight at the San Siro “How have the mighty fallen” 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On for last 5mins, juve 1 down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 03/02/2024 at 11:05, gio1saints said: https://www.juventus.com/it/juventus-tv/alcaraz-e-un-sogno-che-si-avvera Charlies interview at Juve. It’s in Argentinian with Italian subtitles but if you are unfamiliar with either here’s a rough n ready paraphrase: Very happy to be here. Will give my all for club and supporters if I get the chance to wear the shirt. Fave player is Ronaldo. I fight and am very competitive on the pitch my fave position is central. Thank you for the thousands of message on Insta. My nickname is Charley. It’s Inter away Sunday big derby I know but I wish I could be in Rotherham with the Saints as it’s a top top stadium and we play a higher level card of football. I still cannot speak a word of English so don’t expect any Italian out of me even if they have so many connecting roots * * This last paragraph I invented for my own personal amusement 🤭 Spanish, no? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Turkish said: Spanish, no? It’s different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 hours ago, danjosaint said: On for last 5mins, juve 1 down Guessing we'll see quite a bit of this given the more apps he makes the less they play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said: Guessing we'll see quite a bit of this given the more apps he makes the less they play... Wasn't this a Chamberlain thing at Arsenal, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barsiem Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said: Wasn't this a Chamberlain thing at Arsenal, too? Chamberlain was the opposite. If he played more than 10mins a game Arsenal had to pay extra. He therefore was always brought on in the 81st minute, but for some reason no-one at the Arse considered injury time and they therefore had to pay us £1.2m more than they thought 😂 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Alcaraz: "I've been here for a week, I'm happy and I'm doing well. I'm training with the group, who gave me an excellent welcome. My debut in the match against Inter didn't go well in terms of the result, but it allowed me to break the ice with a big match. It's a shame about the scoreline, but we're already focused on Monday evening's match." “I have played in various positions in the past. I feel comfortable both as a midfielder and as a false nine. Now I'm in the process of adapting: the coach tried me as a right-sided midfielder, but in general I'm willing to play in any position. I hate losing - even in training, I always want to win, I always want to win trophies, this is my attitude. I feel great trust from the coach, and I will try to repay it." “At Racing they were very formative years, I was lucky enough to make my debut with a great Argentine club. In England I experienced comparisons with top footballers, all of this allowed me to increase my physical strength and now I think I have the characteristics to express myself at my best in Italy. I feel prepared for this new challenge." “I immediately realised that the team is made up of many young profiles, but also more experienced players. I sense the right alchemy: the support of great champions is always useful in certain situations. I arrived in a group where there are many top players. The one who impressed me the most is Manuel Locatelli. I consider him an excellent player, he has great technique, training with him excites me, I will learn a lot by watching him play. I immediately spoke to Danilo, he asked me how I was, and he had many words of comfort. There's a family atmosphere and I have to thank both him and the rest of the team for their involvement over my first few days." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 He’s not going to want to come back why would he when he knows he can play for a club like Juventus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey McStripe Shirt Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 He can freely express his hate for Pompey here. They simply wouldn't get it in Turin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Scores a cracker in a Juve training vid online. Have to say the Juve 26 Alcaraz shirt looks pretty. #wantit Edited February 9 by gio1saints 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Turkish said: He’s not going to want to come back why would he when he knows he can play for a club like Juventus In which case the "club like Juventus" can pay us £40M for him Edited February 9 by waylander 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Juventus have not got the money. I’m hoping that stays the case as I really rate him and having him back in the Premiership a little older a little wiser- who knows- has great potential imo. But it’s useful to watch Charlie in a team playing a different style anyways They have a match Monday and I’m hoping he gets minutes in that one- or a start even. Just imagine he starts scoring regular out there- each goal is one giant kerching of millions on a transfer - i reckon IF he scores 7+ in last 16 games ( he won’t I don’t think but here’s hoping) he’s going to be in demand everywhere even at €49m..saints can keep him or cash in. Worst case is he has a mare. Edited February 9 by gio1saints 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 33 minutes ago, waylander said: In which case the "club like Juventus" can pay us £40M for him Maybe they will, one of the great names in European football the biggest club in Italy one of the best countries in the world as well as a great football country. Why wouldn’t you want to play for them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 45 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Juventus have not got the money. I’m hoping that stays the case as I really rate him and having him back in the Premiership a little older a little wiser- who knows- has great potential imo. But it’s useful to watch Charlie in a team playing a different style anyways They have a match Monday and I’m hoping he gets minutes in that one- or a start even. Just imagine he starts scoring regular out there- each goal is one giant kerching of millions on a transfer - i reckon IF he scores 7+ in last 16 games ( he won’t I don’t think but here’s hoping) he’s going to be in demand everywhere even at €49m..saints can keep him or cash in. Worst case is he has a mare. Although him having a mare might be our best chance of getting him back :).. its still a bit depressing really that we are loaning out our hottest talents, I get that he wasn’t starting every game and why he want the move, but it does seem a bit keen from us to get him out the door in hope of profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 38 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said: Although him having a mare might be our best chance of getting him back :).. its still a bit depressing really that we are loaning out our hottest talents, I get that he wasn’t starting every game and why he want the move, but it does seem a bit keen from us to get him out the door in hope of profit It's not particularly depressing IMO. Last summer I expected everyone to go. The fact we kept hold of exceptional talent like KWP and had Alcaraz for a decent chunk of this season is great. The fact there is even a chance that we could get him back next year is a decent bit of business. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Juve probably haven't got the money but if he does get game time and does well it's a bigger shop window than we are. If he doesn't play or impress he comes back, we can't really lose; can we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 If he comes back, forwhich I dont think he will, I want him to play in the flase 9 and nowhere else. That's where he's best, either there or the 10, but he doesn't suit the midfield 3 in our system. Personally, if we go up, I think he'll stay at Juve and well swap him for that winger at Juve (Sule?). If we don't go up, he'll go elsewhere in europe way below the 40m quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 £40M buys a pretty decent CF if someone buys Charlie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 7 hours ago, hypochondriac said: It's not particularly depressing IMO. Last summer I expected everyone to go. The fact we kept hold of exceptional talent like KWP and had Alcaraz for a decent chunk of this season is great. The fact there is even a chance that we could get him back next year is a decent bit of business. Yeah lucky little us .. fact is he is/was still our player we look to be in with a great chance of going back up so if we wanted to keep him ? its not like juve have coughed up the readys yet just seems like we are prioritising increasing his value more then what he can do in the pitch for us that’s the part I find depressing don’t we want these young stars to be good for saints ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 They can't afford it in one chunk but I thought it was spread over 3 years, suddenly he would be affordable, but saying that he would have to bloody impress there for it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 7 hours ago, waylander said: £40M buys a pretty decent CF if someone buys Charlie If that was the case fair enough .. but you know we won’t spend 40m on a striker.we will be spending that money on the next bargain basement young prospect that we can potentially make a profit on Edited February 9 by pimpin4rizeal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiknsmack Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 5 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said: just seems like we are prioritising increasing his value more then what he can do in the pitch for us that’s the part I find depressing He can't do much for us on the pitch when he doesn't suit the manager's gameplan. He'd be brilliant under Hasenhüttl or similar in an up-tempo attacking/counter-pressing team where he gets to run around and attack and make things happen. Not so much under Martin in a controlling, possession-based team where he's supposed to protect the ball and pass it around a lot. He's one of our best players and will only get better, but he's a square peg in RM's round hole system. Given the choice of selling a young player for big bucks and boosting our reputation to help us recruit more elite young talents, or sacking Martin and changing the gameplan to suit Alcaraz while betting on him sticking around like Le Tiss to warrant such a change, we know what the correct choice is. And like you say, there's always a chance we go up and keep him. Maybe he'll even fit in better in the PL, where we won't be finding it as easy to dominate games and someone to run around and attack and make things happen is exactly what we need. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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