Carlos Alcaraz

[ally_uk]

Whoever made the decision to loan him out is a twonk! 

Get him playing ffs! 

[SuperSAINT]

15 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Whoever made the decision to loan him out is a twonk! 

Get him playing ffs! 

That’ll be the guy that just left.

[pimpin4rizeal]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I believe Rothwell was his replacement, and if I'm totally honest with you - I have no idea, was pretty gutted when it was announced as it came from nowhere. 

He wasn't playing enough was the argument, but he should have been in the team every week. 

I think russ just preferred stuey .. and it was at the time smallbone was getting in every week . Both are decent to be fair but alcaraz for sure looked a serious prospect after being one of our shining lights in the premiership 

[Lighthouse]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I believe Rothwell was his replacement, and if I'm totally honest with you - I have no idea, was pretty gutted when it was announced as it came from nowhere. 

He wasn't playing enough was the argument, but he should have been in the team every week. 

Rothwell has scored four very important goals since he’s been here. Alcaraz scored two, plus a third nothing goal in injury time against Blackburn. Alcaraz absolutely should not have been in the team every week, he gave the ball away a lot and didn’t look on the same wavelength as his teammates. Truth be told, he’s done very little since a very short flurry of goals when he first joined.

Put it this way, if their names were José Rosario and Charlie Belmash, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

 

Put it this way, if their names were José Rosario and Charlie Belmash, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I never understand when people say that, it's nonsense. Rothwell has scored some important goals for sure, but I just felt Charly had much more about him. Yeah, he gave the ball away sometimes (flair players do that), but in open play he could carry the ball which Rothwell seems incapable of doing.

Big chance for Rothwell tonight to demonstrate his game in a more advanced role.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Lazio apparently been told by us that Charley is theirs for merely €15million.  What a comedown from over €40million!

https://thelaziali.com/2024/08/09/southampton-name-their-price-for-ex-juventus-midfielder-wanted-at-lazio/

At that price, I think I’d rather keep him.

[HKsaint]

The price must be sufficient to pay for O Riley. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, HKsaint said:

The price must be sufficient to pay for O Riley. 

We aren't getting O'Riley and never were.

[Dellyears]

1 hour ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

Lazio apparently been told by us that Charley is theirs for merely €15million.  What a comedown from over €40million!

https://thelaziali.com/2024/08/09/southampton-name-their-price-for-ex-juventus-midfielder-wanted-at-lazio/

At that price, I think I’d rather keep him.

Please let him go. We need the cash. He just doesn't fit, he doesn't play our style and he can't learn our language. He promises a lot and delivers a little. Maybe he needs a fresh start.

[Saint_clark]

Welcome to Southampton! If you aren't a top Prem player by the time you're 21 we'll ditch you. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Welcome to Southampton! If you aren't a top Prem player by the time you're 21 we'll ditch you. 

why do you keep spouting this bollocks?  The premier league is unforgiving if you aren't a good player at any age you get exposed. We tried gambling on a load of players who needed 3-4 years to develop 2 years ago, it failed. 

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Welcome to Southampton! If you aren't a top Prem player by the time you're 21 we'll ditch you. 

You come up with some shite

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Welcome to Southampton! If you aren't a top Prem player by the time you're 21 we'll ditch you. 

A bit like how you feel about Bazunu right? You know, the guy that’s the same age as Mara.

[egg]

4 hours ago, Dellyears said:

Please let him go. We need the cash. He just doesn't fit, he doesn't play our style and he can't learn our language. He promises a lot and delivers a little. Maybe he needs a fresh start.

Apart from the language part, I'm not sure why people are confused by your post. 

I'd add his hot headedness. He was an idiot in the week, and we can't have players putting us under pressure when on an unnecessary yellow or off the pitch. 

RM made it clear that we need to sell to buy. Whether that's because we're skint and/or we don't have the financial fair play bandwidth I don't know, but if RM doesn't fancy Alcaraz (I could understand why he wouldn't) it makes to move him on and free up cash for someone he wants. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I like Alcaraz, what he can offer, and was looking forward to seeing that develop. But a lot of his strengths don't fit with the system we've seen, and his all round game drops him down the pecking order in that same system. I get the feeling all sides are aware of it. It must be frustrating for him.

Much like I think Tall Paul will be more than fine in another set up. If we can use the funds to strengthen the team now, then I'd be fine with that, rather than not have the funds, but have a squad player who doesn't fit the team.

It's decisions like this that also bolt us onto Martin's style. When/If we move on the likes of Alcaraz, Sule, Tall Paul and even Mara we're committing to a certain approach. All have their strengths/ potential. We're just choosing a different approach.

[UpweySaint]

34 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I like Alcaraz, what he can offer, and was looking forward to seeing that develop. But a lot of his strengths don't fit with the system we've seen, and his all round game drops him down the pecking order in that same system. I get the feeling all sides are aware of it. It must be frustrating for him.

Much like I think Tall Paul will be more than fine in another set up. If we can use the funds to strengthen the team now, then I'd be fine with that, rather than not have the funds, but have a squad player who doesn't fit the team.

It's decisions like this that also bolt us onto Martin's style. When/If we move on the likes of Alcaraz, Sule, Tall Paul and even Mara we're committing to a certain approach. All have their strengths/ potential. We're just choosing a different approach.

I’m curious what strengths you feel Mara has or is that more about potential? We signed him off the back on a decent-ish breakthrough in France and a good tournament (IIRC) and on the face of it wasn’t a bad signing but I’ve struggled to see what he’s about as a player.

To me his finishing hasn’t stood out, I’m surprised how easily he seems to get muscled off the ball (he isn’t tiny) and he doesn’t have pace to write home about. The less said about the pen the better!

Do take your broader point about players/systems and I think Charlie is a stellar example of that. I could see him flourishing and have a real soft spot for him but he doesn’t seem a good fit in our current system. He might have scope to develop his game to fit better but given our financial restrictions a good fee to put towards more ‘ready-made’ players might suit us in the here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

I’m curious what strengths you feel Mara has or is that more about potential? We signed him off the back on a decent-ish breakthrough in France and a good tournament (IIRC) and on the face of it wasn’t a bad signing but I’ve struggled to see what he’s about as a player.

To me his finishing hasn’t stood out, I’m surprised how easily he seems to get muscled off the ball (he isn’t tiny) and he doesn’t have pace to write home about. The less said about the pen the better!

Do take your broader point about players/systems and I think Charlie is a stellar example of that. I could see him flourishing and have a real soft spot for him but he doesn’t seem a good fit in our current system. He might have scope to develop his game to fit better but given our financial restrictions a good fee to put towards more ‘ready-made’ players might suit us in the here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

When I was typing "Mara" I thought that would be one to get a comment. With him, it's a bit of both for me.

I have seen him take up decent centre forward positions. I have seen him improve when asked to take wider roles. I've even seen him trying to take on a few Che-like responsibilities. And he has shown glimpses of not getting putmuscled so easily too.

None of these are across lots of games and none sufficient where he's someone you'd be delighted to see him start.

He wants to be a certain place to be on the end of things. We want him to drop deep, move across the front 3, support and finish, with loads of anticipation and understanding of the team's movement. It's just not him, really.

And that's going to have frustrations from players and coaches. We've seen him just drift right put of games, and our system struggle when he's in it.

[6ft8saint]

2 hours ago, UpweySaint said:

I’m curious what strengths you feel Mara has or is that more about potential? We signed him off the back on a decent-ish breakthrough in France and a good tournament (IIRC) and on the face of it wasn’t a bad signing but I’ve struggled to see what he’s about as a player.

To me his finishing hasn’t stood out, I’m surprised how easily he seems to get muscled off the ball (he isn’t tiny) and he doesn’t have pace to write home about. The less said about the pen the better!

Do take your broader point about players/systems and I think Charlie is a stellar example of that. I could see him flourishing and have a real soft spot for him but he doesn’t seem a good fit in our current system. He might have scope to develop his game to fit better but given our financial restrictions a good fee to put towards more ‘ready-made’ players might suit us in the here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

But then again it could be exactly the same or worse. And we end up with another mara

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

why do you keep spouting this bollocks?  The premier league is unforgiving if you aren't a good player at any age you get exposed. We tried gambling on a load of players who needed 3-4 years to develop 2 years ago, it failed. 

Signed 2 years ago, needs 3-4 years to develop, it failed...something wrong with your maths.

8 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

You come up with some shite

Just repeating what others are saying.

7 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

A bit like how you feel about Bazunu right? You know, the guy that’s the same age as Mara.

You've clearly never actually read what I said about him. I said that GK is the one position you can't afford to throw someone in at such a young age and that doing so could single handedly cost us our Prem place, I said that I have no doubt he will develop into a top goalkeeper but that by the time he does that he'll be snapped up by someone else meaning we'll have put up with years and years of a dodgy goalkeeper for no real benefit to us. 

Everyone else is in and out of the team in the time they're developing, Bazunu was stubbornly every managers number one almost as if it's imposed from above. Martins even said he will definitely be out first choice again despite the fact he was dodgy again in the league below and we have absolutely no idea how we will recover after a significant injury. 

Finally, for all the talk of needing to sign and develop young players due to cost restrictions, that doesn't apply to goalkeeper as the summer we signed Bazunu we could have got Johnstone or Leno for less. 

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Signed 2 years ago, needs 3-4 years to develop, it failed...something wrong with your maths.

Just repeating what others are saying.

You've clearly never actually read what I said about him. I said that GK is the one position you can't afford to throw someone in at such a young age and that doing so could single handedly cost us our Prem place, I said that I have no doubt he will develop into a top goalkeeper but that by the time he does that he'll be snapped up by someone else meaning we'll have put up with years and years of a dodgy goalkeeper for no real benefit to us. 

Everyone else is in and out of the team in the time they're developing, Bazunu was stubbornly every managers number one almost as if it's imposed from above. Martins even said he will definitely be out first choice again despite the fact he was dodgy again in the league below and we have absolutely no idea how we will recover after a significant injury. 

Finally, for all the talk of needing to sign and develop young players due to cost restrictions, that doesn't apply to goalkeeper as the summer we signed Bazunu we could have got Johnstone or Leno for less. 

We got relegated finishing bottom hun, something swing with your memory?

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

We got relegated finishing bottom hun, something swing with your memory?

They haven't finished developing, even by your 3-4 year time frame. Good job we didn't follow that logic with Lallana and Schneiderlin when they took us down to league one. 

[S-Clarke]

47 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

They haven't finished developing, even by your 3-4 year time frame. Good job we didn't follow that logic with Lallana and Schneiderlin when they took us down to league one. 

Personally I'd needed to have seen something from Sulemana, Mara, Bazunu by now. They even came down a league with us and still couldn't impact or develop any further. Edozie is on the borderline for me, he's technical and quick, but his end product and decision making is woeful and really should be improving by now at his age - jury is out on him.

Sometimes players develop late, as with Morgan and Lallana, but sometimes you just have to look at what's in front of you to realise you're just hoping rather than expecting them to get better. There are certain 'young' players in our group that we should just accept defeat on and move them on, I include the 3 i mentioned above on that list. When I look at SAA or Dibling I see totally different players with genuine potential, and they're 4 or 5 years younger than the ones we bought to 'develop'.

Charly is an interesting one, he wasn't signed as a young player to develop, more of a here and now kind of signing. The problem with Charly is that he doesn't suit Martin's style, I think there is a genuine clash there. That's not to say he's a bad player at all, but he's very loose with the ball and that isn't going to get you game time in Martin's teams. I would imagine the club would sell him for the right fee.

 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

They haven't finished developing, even by your 3-4 year time frame. Good job we didn't follow that logic with Lallana and Schneiderlin when they took us down to league one. 

which is exactly the point. We signed them to play first team football immediately when they need 3-4 years to develop. It really isn't that hard to get your head round.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Personally I'd needed to have seen something from Sulemana, Mara, Bazunu by now. They even came down a league with us and still couldn't impact or develop any further. Edozie is on the borderline for me, he's technical and quick, but his end product and decision making is woeful and really should be improving by now at his age - jury is out on him.

Sometimes players develop late, as with Morgan and Lallana, but sometimes you just have to look at what's in front of you to realise you're just hoping rather than expecting them to get better. There are certain 'young' players in our group that we should just accept defeat on and move them on, I include the 3 i mentioned above on that list. When I look at SAA or Dibling I see totally different players with genuine potential, and they're 4 or 5 years younger than the ones we bought to 'develop'.

Charly is an interesting one, he wasn't signed as a young player to develop, more of a here and now kind of signing. The problem with Charly is that he doesn't suit Martin's style, I think there is a genuine clash there. That's not to say he's a bad player at all, but he's very loose with the ball and that isn't going to get you game time in Martin's teams. I would imagine the club would sell him for the right fee.

 

I wouldn't say either Morgan or Lallana developed late. We signed Morgan in the championship as an 18 year old. Both he and Lallana had played over 100 game each in league one and the championship before they kicked a ball in the premier league. They had a grounding already they wre signed have never played mens football or above league one level and expected to be premier league players immediately. 

[derry]

Duplicated editing spelling.

 

Edited August 10 by derry

[derry]

2 minutes ago, derry said:

Personally I don't get the mania for passing backwards and sideways in our own penalty area, in particular using an important player, the goalkeeper, who isn't instinctively comfortable, doesn't like doing it and causes calamitous situations because of it. Even when we break out of it the midfield too often return the ball back into the area. For me a player like Alcaraz, instinctively courageous and aggressive, automatically on the front foot and capable of dispensing with the ball retention to send thirty yard passes to colleagues in good attacking positions. Against Lazio, Alcaraz bounced Guendouzie and won the physical battle, broke upfield and passed out to BD who given the space switched back inside and buried the ball in the net. We are going to need more of that rather than ball recycling this year. Alcaraz as he has also proved can hit a good goal from distance on the break. We need players like him to break the lines. 

He might be a hot head but two seasons ago he performed well in the Premier League. We aren't going to play through too many Premier teams this year. It's going to take aggressive hard running and good finishing to keep us up. And a new goalkeeper along with a proper centre forward or we will be going back to Southampton nil.

 

 

Edited August 10 by derry

[derry]

As a matter of interest Charlie has served his suspension by missing the Getafe game. The rule is suspensions only apply to friendlies and irrespective of the reason for sending off the suspension applies to the next friendly match. If it's the last friendly of the season then the suspension is carried over to the next season's first friendly.

[Roboze]

would like to see Alcarez stay, i think theres a fantastic creative player there, would give us a great other option, and would rather keep him than sell for 15mill 

[lhammondo]

I'm living in Rio at the moment and it's being rumoured that flamengo are getting him for 25m€. The source of this was a screen on a metro. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Saint_Ash]

Alcaraz gone. 

 

[sadoldgit]

It’s a shame but hopefully the money will bring in someone better suited to our system.

[S-Clarke]

I've always been a fan of Charly, although I think a lot of that feeling steams from the fact that he was our only shining light in a shambles of a PL season.

He's not the most disciplined of players, he'll go on a walkabout and do his own thing - which can work out in some sides, but when you're in a team that employs a structure - which most teams do (no matter how many agree or disagree with that) you cannot have someone just doing their own thing sadly.

I'm sure other clubs see the same limitations in him which is why he's not sought by any other English or European clubs. The move to South America will be good for him, culturally and footballing wise. I doubt we'll ever see him back in Europe, but I'll keep an eye on his progress for sure.

[Oldandtired]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s a shame but hopefully the money will bring in someone better suited to our system.

Have Swansea got any more for sale?

[warsash saint]

I think every Saints fans were dying for Charly to make it happen here - sadly never suited Russ' system.

 

The goal at the Emirates in our relegation season will be my lasting memory.

 

I wish him all the best

Edited August 28 by warsash saint

[Wade Garrett]

46 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

 

Agent looks like he’s been on the dusty showbiz.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

I think every Saints fans were dying for Charly to make it happen here - sadly never suited Russ' system.

 

The goal at the Emirates in our relegation system will be my lasting memory.

 

I wish him all the best

Well, that's one way of describing our tactics...

[Disco Stu]

I can't help feeling we'll look back at Alcaraz as one that got away. Personally, I do think we'll see him back in Europe one day.

Edited August 28 by Disco Stu

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Agent looks like he’s been on the dusty showbiz.

Yeah, he probably misunderstood initially when he was asked to go to meet the driver and pick up Charly.

[skintsaint]

If he was any cop he wouldn't be going back to SA.

Cheers CA for the few brief glimpses of what you could do.

[Saint Scott]

Strange that there is still no official statement from our end

[Colinjb]

What an odd 19 months that was for Charly.

Liked him, will miss him.

[Convict Colony]

13 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yeah, he probably misunderstood initially when he was asked to go to meet the driver and pick up Charly.

Kalle Sauerland in 10yrs

[OttawaSaint]

Shame. I really liked Charly. Always put a shift in and at times was our only goal threat in the EPL last time. Too bad we don't have a manager that plays a system that plays to Charly's strengths. 

I much prefer watching flamboyant exciting attacking football and players like Charly.

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Shame. I really liked Charly. Always put a shift in and at times was our only goal threat in the EPL last time. Too bad we don't have a manager that plays a system that plays to Charly's strengths. 

I much prefer watching flamboyant exciting attacking football and players like Charly.

I’m old enough to remember when managers often used to build teams around certain players. Now players have to fit into prescribed systems.  Hopefully this phase will pass at some point soon and we will return to flair and individual moments of brilliance instead of keeping up the possession stats.

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Shame. I really liked Charly. Always put a shift in and at times was our only goal threat in the EPL last time. Too bad we don't have a manager that plays a system that plays to Charly's strengths. 

I much prefer watching flamboyant exciting attacking football and players like Charly.

So why has nobody else in the PL, or even Europe, come in for him? If it’s just the tired old trope of ‘oh Russ hates him because he once dared to pass forwards and more than ten yards’, why is no other manager ripping our hand off?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Ultimately, not good enough despite early promise. 
 

Hopefully Sully next out the door. 
 

 

Edited August 28 by Lord Duckhunter

[Baird of the land]

Disappointing but expected news. Was really hoping he'd break in, strengthening our anemic midfield.

[Saint_clark]

Excellent! One less creative flair player to worry about. More solid, sideways passing hard working bearded banter lads please.

[lhammondo]

One less goalscoring option, strewth....

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Excellent! One less creative flair player to worry about. More solid, sideways passing hard working bearded banter lads please.

Grow up. We’ve got decent money for a player who struggled in the Championship last season.