S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, Block41 Saint said: Us spending the money we spent on Charles and Stewart in the summer is really poor business. I know Stewart has been unfortunate with his injuries but Charles has looked awful more often than not. I really hope Downes isn't out for many more games because Charles is nowhere near good enough for the top end of this league despite costing a fortune at Championship level. I think we need to bear in mind that this is Charles first season of professional football, he's not at all the finished product. I felt a bit sorry for him in the first half. Like with all young players, you have to give them time and a platform - but he was a bit out on his own today I felt. We have always needed a bit more cover with him and Downes though in that DM type role imo. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said: You missed Baz - i thought he was probably the best player for us tonight, great clearances and good hands. Yeah agree, saved us twice as a sweeper 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 We missed Downes and, just as we did when we had lost JWP, and were waiting for him to return from illness. That we really perform that much better with a single player, says a lot about the system. For whatever reason, Charles hasn’t been able to push on. He has had some early moments, but tonight, it got to the point, he got subbed. That’s been the trajectory of his form for a while, to the point there were a few posts who wouldn’t have minded some defensive reinforcements in midfield in January. Rothwell and Brooks are both skilled players. I was a little surprised, considering all of the detail in Martin’s system, how quickly they made it into the starting 11. I think in the last couple of games we’ve seen the downside of some of that. We’re a bit disjointed and when we depend on that fluidity of passing moves, we quickly lose our momentum. We had a lot of misplaced passes, players not in position, clumps of players not offering passing angles even in the first half. Definitely not just Charles at fault. City were sharper, hungrier and direct when they got it. We looked tired and despite some moments from some individuals, looked a little out of ideas. Martin has a high possession stat to look back on. We relied on more individual players looking to step up than prolonged periods of passing with chances. We got more shots, and as many on target as they did. But ours come from a more patient build up, while City looked like cutting us apart on a number of occasions. It was a cracking unbeaten run. But, in a flurry of fixtures, we have to quickly dust ourselves down and keep working away. By the looks of Leeds’ form, we’re going to have to go on another decent run to keep up the pace. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Not a surprise now a very easy set of fixtures is over. Crap by most of the players our away form is a concern for the goals we want to achieve. Anyone still think we can catch Leicester? You've just described most of the championship as easy, lets not underplay how great a run we have had. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block41 Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, S-Clarke said: I think we need to bear in mind that this is Charles first season of professional football, he's not at all the finished product. I felt a bit sorry for him in the first half. Like with all young players, you have to give them time and a platform - but he was a bit out on his own today I felt. We have always needed a bit more cover with him and Downes though in that DM type role imo. Which makes the transfer fee even more bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Despite his fantastic double the other day, I'd have preferred signing competition for Downes over Rothwell. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Convict Colony said: too heavy in the attacking midfielders and only basically downes and charles who are defensive ones. Its inexcusable though isn't it. We had charly as a sub for this level... We got rid of him to sign Rothwell, using up a loan spot... When literally everyone can see we have no serious cdm cover, shit at left back, and no RB cover to speak off. Kwp has basically had no rotation and is clearly off his peak. Edited February 13 by Saint86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Long Shot said: To be fair it’s been coming. We have yet to play well over 90 minutes in any match. Huddersfield proved we are a brittle side when attacked with menace. It will be the play offs without a doubt and despite our impressive unbeaten run that’s probably all we deserve. Leeds 4-0 away win is something we’ve never been near. What's with these matter of fact ''that's the season done'' posts tonight? Seems that people are not able to deal with a defeat. I hope the players can deal with defeat better than a lot of our fans, if they can't we're fucked. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) These last 2 games we have started too passively and allowed the opposition to get stuck in. Can we please be more positive and forward looking at WBA ? ( And try to make sure our passes actually reach a team mate ). Edited February 13 by badgerx16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said: A terrible terrible night and genuinely one to forget Bednarek and KWP maybe the only ones with any credit, Brooks looked ok, he tried We have significant depth in many positions but CF and DM we struggle behind Downes and an in form Adams Charles was poor tonight, but not THAT bad, everyone else was misplacing passes too, we just look so weak with Smallbone in the 6, he’s looked lost every time he’s played there Armstrong, unfortunately cannot lead the line, he’s fantastic at RW, but not ST Manning… Ive said it all year, Danny Fox MK II… great on the ball, awful defensively We looked tired though tonight, as we did at the weekend, a big recovery job needed Friday. No need to panic yet, but we need a reaction I would add Edozie to that as well. He looked like the only player who was likely to make anything happen up front all night, and hit the bar in the first half with a snap shot that any other player would have put into row Z 9 times out of 10. Agree with the rest of your assessment though. Smallbone is not as bad player but he's just not a DM, and neither is Charles - yet. When we surrender that control of midfield, our entire passing game collapses because it relies on the right players being in the right place to receive the ball. Manning still scares the crap out of me, especially when he comes over to take the corners on our right. They never come to anything and it just leaves him hopelessly out of position. Noticed it at Rotherham recently but they weren't good enough to punish his terrible positioning. We need Bree back, and soon. I'm not panicking just yet. The unbeaten run was bound to come to an end some time. Just need to make sure we don't dwell on it too much and I don't think Russ will allow that anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: Despite his fantastic double the other day, I'd have preferred signing competition for Downes over Rothwell. Exactly this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Watson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Shambolic,we have been poor the last 3 games,really disappointed with Brooks,thought he would run the show tonight. We will get hammered at Ipswich,Leicester and Leeds if we play like this and god knows what Liverpool will do to us. The biggest worry is being totally out played by an average side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, Sheaf Saint said: I would add Edozie to that as well. He looked like the only player who was likely to make anything happen up front all night, and hit the bar in the first half with a snap shot that any other player would have put into row Z 9 times out of 10. Agree with the rest of your assessment though. Smallbone is not as bad player but he's just not a DM, and neither is Charles - yet. When we surrender that control of midfield, our entire passing game collapses because it relies on the right players being in the right place to receive the ball. Manning still scares the crap out of me, especially when he comes over to take the corners on our right. They never come to anything and it just leaves him hopelessly out of position. Noticed it at Rotherham recently but they weren't good enough to punish his terrible positioning. We need Bree back, and soon. I'm not panicking just yet. The unbeaten run was bound to come to an end some time. Just need to make sure we don't dwell on it too much and I don't think Russ will allow that anyway. Agree except Brooks/Edozie didn’t offer enough defensively… great going forward tonight but they put us under too much pressure imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, spyinthesky said: We should be good enough to make the play offs unless we now fall apart, then it is anyone's chance to get promotion. However carry this form through to Liverpool and we could be in for a pasting I really cannot see this team handling the pressure of the play offs, totally different type of football required, which I don't think suits us at all. We have an almost nonchalant slow build up style where the playoffs demand a bit of gun ho. Look at today, 3 nil down, 10 to go, and we're knocking it around at the back like there's not a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Been saying all season that we wouldn't go up automatically and that the wheels would start to come off mid-feb, although I was thinking WBA, Not Bristol City. tonight sums up why I don't think Saints will get automatic promotion. They've always got it in the to fuck up spectacularly. No coincidence that our worst performances happen when SA doesn't start. sta 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said: Manning… Ive said it all year, Danny Fox MK II… great on the ball, awful defensively Never seen a left back the wrong side of attackers as much as he is. And when he's caught wrong side he literally jogs back. Perhaps part of that os the role he is asked to play, not sure. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Andrew Watson said: Shambolic,we have been poor the last 3 games,really disappointed with Brooks,thought he would run the show tonight. We will get hammered at Ipswich,Leicester and Leeds if we play like this and god knows what Liverpool will do to us. The biggest worry is being totally out played by an average side Jesus Christ. We lost a game of football, our first one for 26 games. Get a fuckin grip. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 No complaints about the result. Got exactly what we deserved. The performance is a worry. Totally lacking in energy. I think the coaching staff have been conscious of it. The signs have been there for a few weeks now. Well done Bristol though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said: Smallbone is not as bad player but he's just not a DM, and neither is Charles - yet. When we surrender that control of midfield, our entire passing game collapses because it relies on the right players being in the right place to receive the ball. Yeah that's exactly it - automatically everyone looks bad, you've got THB/KWP giving the ball away because the midfield aren't in the right positions to receive the ball. They've not given the ball away from carelessness as such, it's just that the midfield is full of gaps and structure without Downes. I think that was Charles worst game for us though, whilst he's not set the house on fire since signing, he's never been as bad as that. It's harsh to single out one player, but he was probably the catalyst for how bad we were in that opening period of the game - and it's hard to recover when you start that slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obelisk Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 By the weekend we'll know whether this is a blip or a sign of a flagging team. Things will change quickly with fixtures coming thick and fast. I'm resigning myself to the play-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I think we need to bear in mind that this is Charles first season of professional football, he's not at all the finished product. I felt a bit sorry for him in the first half. Like with all young players, you have to give them time and a platform - but he was a bit out on his own today I felt. We have always needed a bit more cover with him and Downes though in that DM type role imo. he strolls around. You want to see CM's a bit busier. A bit more hussle. He's calm, but maybe too calm? I'd like to see more urgency. It's all too slow. Far too many stray passes today. Hopefully thats not a regular thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Jesus Christ. We lost a game of football, our first one for 26 games. Get a fuckin grip. There's a lot of this tonight sadly. As I said above, I hope our players can deal with defeat better than some of our fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammon cheeks Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Started off slow and ponderous .....no tempo to our game at all ......6 goals conceded in two games is a bit of a worry . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Its inexcusable though isn't it. We had charly as a sub for this level... We got rid of him to sign Rothwell, using up a loan spot... When literally everyone can see we have no serious cdm cover, shit at left back, and no RB cover to speak off. Kwp has basically had no rotation and is clearly off his peak. clearly? Looked OK to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 What a fantastic run, we need the players to react now and start another one at West Brom. And some fans need to remember the last few seasons and recognise that they've been spoilt for five months. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 Does anyone watch enough of Cam Bragg to say whether he'd be a genuine option if Downes is out? I doubt Martin would consider it but Smallbone really can't play that role and Charles seems to be getting worse game by game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Why don't we go for teams from the first whistle? we always seems to sit back and let teams grow in confidence in the first 15 mins of nearly every game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galway saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Micky said: I really cannot see this team handling the pressure of the play offs, totally different type of football required, which I don't think suits us at all. We have an almost nonchalant slow build up style where the playoffs demand a bit of gun ho. Look at today, 3 nil down, 10 to go, and we're knocking it around at the back like there's not a problem. what was saturday if it wasn’t ‘gung ho’! we lost tonight because you can’t win every game and because without downes we don’t have control in midfield. i also think admas gives us a focal point and again he wasn’t playing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Andrew Watson said: really disappointed with Brooks,thought he would run the show tonight. liked what I saw personally, except the occasion he didn't get back to help Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: There's a lot of this tonight sadly. As I said above, I hope our players can deal with defeat better than some of our fans. Yep, we were not at it for whatever reason. Complete over reaction from some quarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Galway saint said: what was saturday if it wasn’t ‘gung ho’! we lost tonight because you can’t win every game and because without downes we don’t have control in midfield. i also think admas gives us a focal point and again he wasn’t playing was Adams injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: There's a lot of this tonight sadly. As I said above, I hope our players can deal with defeat better than some of our fans. You say that but there is no room for a result like that with West Brom, Leicester, Ipswich and Leeds away and Leeds form at the moment. Leeds beat Leicester away and stuffed Ipswich at home and have r hit form. I think it’s tough to make a case for anything other than play offs and also I know the points would usually have you up nearly already but we are where we r should be in terms of the squad we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Micky said: I really cannot see this team handling the pressure of the play offs, totally different type of football required, which I don't think suits us at all. We have an almost nonchalant slow build up style where the playoffs demand a bit of gun ho. Look at today, 3 nil down, 10 to go, and we're knocking it around at the back like there's not a problem. Not sure how you can say this and give up on this group on the back of one game. They just went 25 games without losing, the way we played got us into that run - so talking about ripping it up and going gung ho (''just kick it long") isn't really going to aid us. Stick with what you believe in, success comes from consistency in everything you do and not blinking and resetting at the slightest set back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Martin was very calm and upbeat in his post match interview A lot of the things he mentioned, we're seeing as well (so he's not hiding any of the issues, which is nice). Most frustrated with the set piece goal. Wasn;t the biggest team he could have put out, but expected better from that. Felt that it gave City even more energy. Generally, he's saying that we're playing a lot of the game the way he expects. He said we played our own game for a lot of the match (high possession stat), and it's the same thing as before, we don;t make enough in the final third (more shots than them stat) . Today he added, that we also didn;t keep the ball long enough in that area, allowing city to push out. He highlighted AA as dropping deep, but that meant we didn;t have that finisher. He pointed out that we weren't clean enough with the ball. He said he won;t be frustrated if the passes are done with teh correct intent. But felt we tried to force the game at times. He was very calm about what we'll learn form it. He's going to make sure it will get better. The players will learn about each other as a result of this. The last time he had that sort of conversation they went on this run. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, Roger said: You say that but there is no room for a result like that with West Brom, Leicester, Ipswich and Leeds away and Leeds form at the moment. Leeds beat Leicester away and stuffed Ipswich at home and have r hit form. I think it’s tough to make a case for anything other than play offs and also I know the points would usually have you up nearly already but we are where we r should be in terms of the squad we have. We've just gone 25 games unbeaten though, it wasn't going to last forever. It's a bit daft to assume that Leeds are going to win every single game up until May, they're not - there will be twists and turns all the way. This is just a bump in the road. Success will be born out of how we react to these sort of set backs - we certainly reacted well to the last one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: These last 2 games we have started too passively and allowed the opposition to get stuck in. Can we please be more positive and forward looking at WBA ? ( And try to make sure our passes actually reach a team mate ). Spot on. How you start more often than not sets the tone for the match. We are starting games in a far too casual manner - earn the right to play from the first whistle with high intensity or hand the initiative to the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 A lot of similarities between how Huddersfield and Bristol took us on, its just that Bristol are a better team than Huddersfield. Very Direct, very quick getting forward. Both sides matched us for shots with less than a ⅓ of possession for most of the games. Has a blueprint for combating our possession football been found? Over to you Russ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 That was just a doddle to play against, just like we were in September: 1. Drop back and let us walk it up to halfway 2. Wait for us to give it away 3. Quick counter into huge spaces behind our midfield/defence Back to the drawing board hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just one of those games. Missed Downes, the changes didn’t work. Need Fraser and Stu back in the starting lineup for Friday. The West Brom game will be tough but win, lose or draw we will still be in a good position to have a go for automatic. No drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: What's with these matter of fact ''that's the season done'' posts tonight? Seems that people are not able to deal with a defeat. I hope the players can deal with defeat better than a lot of our fans, if they can't we're fucked. If you can’t handle the pain of defeat, see a chiropodist. Wait, dat’s the pain of de feet… 🙂 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, Galway saint said: what was saturday if it wasn’t ‘gung ho’! we lost tonight because you can’t win every game and because without downes we don’t have control in midfield. i also think admas gives us a focal point and again he wasn’t playing Saturday was a game against a relegation threatened team who are struggling to stay in this division, a team who we would be expected to beat comfortably by two goals, but we made bloody hard work of it. Totally different to playing a promotion pushing team for one of the richest prizes in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Some decent questions from the sky interviewer. Talking about pace/ tempo of the game as opposed to saints possession. Gets good answers from those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 We were going to loose eventually, hopefully it’s the kick up the backside we need to push on which I guess we will see on Friday night. What ever happens if we don’t go up this year it won’t be an away game at Bristol City that cost us it will always be the terrible run while we were settling into the new system post JWP leaving. Disappointed to loose but it is how we bounce back that’s important (even Leicester have lost a couple!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Yeah that's exactly it - automatically everyone looks bad, you've got THB/KWP giving the ball away because the midfield aren't in the right positions to receive the ball. They've not given the ball away from carelessness as such, it's just that the midfield is full of gaps and structure without Downes. I think that was Charles worst game for us though, whilst he's not set the house on fire since signing, he's never been as bad as that. It's harsh to single out one player, but he was probably the catalyst for how bad we were in that opening period of the game - and it's hard to recover when you start that slow. Yeah, take our Downes and a crucial building block is missing. It upsets the whole balance of our play because individuals get out of position and the shape is lost. You can't overstate how vital Downes is to how we set up and sadly we have nobody who is capable of playing his role. Hope he's back soon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, S-Clarke said: We've just gone 25 games unbeaten though, it wasn't going to last forever. It's a bit daft to assume that Leeds are going to win every single game up until May, they're not - there will be twists and turns all the way. This is just a bump in the road. Success will be born out of how we react to these sort of set backs - we certainly reacted well to the last one. But do you really think this squad is good enough to finish in the top 2 I do not think it has the quality of players that Adkins had and will struggle in the PL but they have done really well so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 To be fair I always expected the run to end against a team we wouldn’t necessarily expect to beat us, the shame is that we’ve lost the game in hand cushion against Bristol when we could have done with it against the tougher sides. My concern now is that the lads get back very late tonight, have a training session tomorrow afternoon, another Thursday and then travel straight up to West Brom, with no time for recovery. Thanks a bunch Sky Sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, Jack said: That was just a doddle to play against, just like we were in September: 1. Drop back and let us walk it up to halfway 2. Wait for us to give it away 3. Quick counter into huge spaces behind our midfield/defence Back to the drawing board hopefully These spaces seem a lot more open when Downes isn't playing. It's a bit scary how important he is to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeEnder Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Win, lose or draw, business as usual. Up the Saints. Bring on WBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Not sure how you can say this and give up on this group on the back of one game. They just went 25 games without losing, the way we played got us into that run - so talking about ripping it up and going gung ho (''just kick it long") isn't really going to aid us. Stick with what you believe in, success comes from consistency in everything you do and not blinking and resetting at the slightest set back. I'm not giving up on them at all, I think they have been amazing, I've really enjoyed watching this run. Problem is, unlike most other seasons this is not a two horse race, Leicester have run away with it, Leeds and Ipswich are up there with us, and the pace has been relentless. But I stand by what I said, I don't think play off football will suit our style, we always give teams a chance. If plan A doesn't work for us we generally rely on the bench and stick to plan A, sometimes you need to do something different to break teams down. So I'm not giving up on them at all, it's been a great run, but at the end of the season the only prizes anyone will remember is the promotion prizes, not the 25 game run prize. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The spine of the team was broken with the loss of Downes and, to a lesser extent, Adams. It showed and we were guilty of continually giving the ball away cheaply high up the pitch and allowing them to break on us quickly. We need a reaction on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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