Bristol City 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[SNSUN]

Anyone know if we're mathmatically safe from relegation? 😁

8 hours ago, saintant said:

Good point about Aribo and maybe he'll go straight into the side.

When he came on in the AFCON final he played deeper while they pushed players forward to try and get the equaliser so it's possible he can play deeper in midfield. Hopefully Downes will be back and we won't have to find out.

[Saint86]

9 hours ago, northam soul said:

We seem to struggle when teams press us hard and attack with pace.

 

The Liverpool game is going to be horrific. 

[northam soul]

16 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

The Liverpool game is going to be horrific. 

4,000 people have just advertised their tickets for sale.

[macca155]

10 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Despite his fantastic double the other day, I'd have preferred signing competition for Downes over Rothwell. 

Totally agree,  othing against Rothwell, good player but Aribo, S Armstrong, and probably Dibling can play there.

Desperately need cover in DM, maybe time for Captain Jack to step up or maybe THB.

The other option is Bragg but he is very young.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, John B said:

But our results against the top teams has not been consistent we may finish 2nd but I doubt it as Leicester and Leeds are relatively strong 

We beat Leeds at home, Hull away, drew with Coventry away, beat WBA at home. Still to play Leicester away, Cov at home, Hull at home etc. Not particularly fair to say we've not been consistent after we've just gone unbeaten in 25, the clear definition of consistent. That run did include 'top teams' as well, the run seems to have been belittled quite a bit as just us facing relegation teams since September - not the case in any stretch.

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Charles looked cumbersome and only seemed to do the short pass but he was ok at the start of the season. Problem is, being out the team seems to have slowed him and reactions up even more. Like S-Clarke said, he was often out of position or when he got the ball, he gave it away and deserved to be yanked off at half time. 

And I'm not usually a Baz critic but couldn't he have anticipated and dived out to cut out the cross for the first?

he wasn’t great but it was 0-0 when he went off - seemed to lose all control in the second 

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, macca155 said:

The other option is Bragg but he is very young.

There were 3 players younger than Bragg in yesterday's squad... 

#ifyouregoodenoughyoureoldenough

Edited February 14 by trousers

[malcolm waldron]

1 minute ago, Galway saint said:

he wasn’t great but it was 0-0 when he went off - seemed to lose all control in the second 

I think thats the issue.  In the first half Smallbone and Charles I thought went missing for large parts of it (you could see THB getting increasingly frustrated about the lack of passing options when we had the ball at the back).  That, plus giving the ball away, led to a disjointed first half.  Stu coming on gave us more drive (and risk) with the ball going forward but left us horribly exposed when we lost the ball high up the pitch - which we did a lot.  The lack of any sort of control worried me. 

[Smirking_Saint]

23 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Totally agree,  othing against Rothwell, good player but Aribo, S Armstrong, and probably Dibling can play there.

Desperately need cover in DM, maybe time for Captain Jack to step up or maybe THB.

The other option is Bragg but he is very young.

Stephens is terrible as a proactive defender so Id imagine putting him in a position where you need to be even more tactically astute is suicide

[CeeBee]

Still not a fan of this possession football. City were so much more energetic and completely nullified our stilted efforts.

Have to say, really liked Ashton Gate stadium, and the locals made me smile with their rendering of WTS go 3 nil down.

[rallyboy]

10 minutes ago, CeeBee said:

Still not a fan of this possession football.

I'm curious to know what you would suggest as an alternative, hoofing it to their keeper or giving it away all the time? 

It served us well for 25 games, probably not time to abandon it yet, let's give it another try.

🙂

[CeeBee]

Should have said played at a pedestrian pace. Nothing wrong with passing the ball but it has to be at pace with a purpose.

[Convict Colony]

Leeds celebrating like they got promoted last night, their fixation on overtaking us hopefully means they take the eye off the ball over the coming weeks.

Would like a no frills 1-0 on Fri or even a draw - need to get something from the game, need to arrest these goals conceded.

Hopefully with Bree back in LB it enables KWP to get forward further and Bree compresses in to make it a 3 at the back as manning assists nothing and is just caught out a lot.

 

[saintoaks]

10 hours ago, Oldandtired said:

Just seen the goals, nothing complicated or inventive about them, just goals that we shouldn’t be letting happen. Also just reinforces my opinion of Manning, sh 1 te.

Have to laugh at the Manning digs, i agree he's no world beater but look at the goals we have conceeded over the last two games, the majority have come from the wings, the oppo have exploited our weaknesses, for instance, last night both Brooks and Edozie played so high and wide, they offered no protection to the fullbacks, Saturday, both Huddersfields first two goals came from Mannings side but Fraser was half way up the pitch, overload of two against one.  it needs to be addressed as we are so open and the worrying part is i dont know what has changed from the games before. anyway, dust ourselves down, a win Friday and we are back in the race.

[S-Clarke]

26 minutes ago, CeeBee said:

but it has to be at pace with a purpose.

Which it has been for 25 or so games, we just had a slow night last night where we just didn't click. That doesn't equate to our style of football being all wrong and us needing to reinvent the wheel.

That's not a dig at you, but I've seen some idiots on social media proclaiming that possession football will not get you results in this league and that we need to reset our approach and bypass the midfield. I must have imagined all the results we've got playing possession football then!

Edited February 14 by S-Clarke

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

The Liverpool game is going to be horrific. 

We must be overdue another 9-0 

[JRM]

34 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

I'm curious to know what you would suggest as an alternative, hoofing it to their keeper or giving it away all the time? 

It served us well for 25 games, probably not time to abandon it yet, let's give it another try.

🙂

I'd say there are moments when we lose the ball and find ourselves completely out of position, need to be clever sometimes a long pass takes away the danger but that's what Martin refers to when he talks about being brave (taking risks)

[chownie20]

I dont think this was thattttt bad.  We hit the bar in the first half and had 2 or 3 other very good chances.  One of those goes in and its another win.

Brooks I thought was creative as was Edozie.  Smallbone does frustrate me as he recycles so much, Rothwell at least drives forward.  Didnt think Charles was that bad - broke up play well once or twice.  Sulemana didnt have a great night when he came on but kept losing his footing on the crap pitch!

[BranfootsLoveChild]

Just looked at highlights on Youtube. Some of the comments from other sides fans on there are laughable. 24 games unbeaten  we lose one and all of a sudden Saints have bottled it etc. Some people are odd.

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, saintoaks said:

Have to laugh at the Manning digs, i agree he's no world beater but look at the goals we have conceeded over the last two games, the majority have come from the wings, the oppo have exploited our weaknesses, for instance, last night both Brooks and Edozie played so high and wide, they offered no protection to the fullbacks, Saturday, both Huddersfields first two goals came from Mannings side but Fraser was half way up the pitch, overload of two against one.  it needs to be addressed as we are so open and the worrying part is i dont know what has changed from the games before. anyway, dust ourselves down, a win Friday and we are back in the race.

I didn't blame him for any of the goals against Huddersfield. As you say, there was an overload on his side. The attacks actually came down the other side, people were drawn across and a spare man appeared. However, that was not the case last night - at least not for the goals conceded.

Manning was at fault for their first goal. Firstly he is lazy and takes up a poor position (I think) from a throw in, and almost gets done. A few seconds later he ball watches and gets completely done, allowing Mehmeti to pick Bell out for a tap in. The touch by Smallbone was fortune for City, but this had nothing to do with a lack of cover. It was just poor defending. It happens, but fullbacks that ball watch cause you problems.

The third goal.  Bloody hell. We lose the ball in their third of the pitch, Fraser is in front of Manning and closes the man with the ball down. There is no issue at this point. But Manning...honestly, I do not know what Manning was doing, he doesn't track his man who runs down the line (Manning has a five yard head start, so there is no issue), gets the wrong side of him (he maybe tries to cut out the pass but fails abysmally) and McCrorie can then just stroll to the edge of the box (no idea why Bednarek does not go out to him) and pick his man out. It was fucking garbage defending by Manning. Go with the runner and that goals does not happen. Maybe he was knackered at that point, but it was really poor.

In terms of our all round performance/game. I am not sure much has changed to be honest. In other games we have managed to snuff out breaks or got away with them. This time we didn't. In other games we have taken our chances. Last night we had the great opportunity with AA, Edozie and Brooks and it didn't go in. Fine lines.

 

  

[Appy]

Is Ashton Gate officially our bogey ground? I make it four defeats in a row there. 

[6ft8saint]

 Why is it that this is a forum site for saints fans yet if you express a free willed opinion so called "super fans" jump down on you and then just get very rude. 

 

As for last night and the 1st half against Watford in cup and huddersfield. We were a shadow of the side we were for the past 25 matches. I get possession build up play but sometimes it'd just silly. Passes across the open mouth of goal. Silly passes directly to the keeper when there's a man on both (smallbone). Silly non direct and slow laboured passing. These teams and pundits are reading our play now and they are setting up for it. We need to adapt and mix it up more. Maybe if manning is a concern move kwp to his position and meghoma in rb.

 

Yes so somehow we have got to 25 unbeaten and there have been some epic games. However we are more than a one man team so we should be building this on flynn not being back and if he is it's a bonus.

 

As for tiredness they are professional sports people they are paid well enough and train for exactly this football.

 

We can get back to second win Friday and then our in hand game is Tuesday both tough but winnable.

 

Watch the criticism comming now.

 

COYR

[Chez]

42 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Which it has been for 25 or so games, we just had a slow night last night where we just didn't click. That doesn't equate to our style of football being all wrong and us needing to reinvent the wheel.

That's not a dig at you, but I've seen some idiots on social media proclaiming that possession football will not get you results in this league and that we need to reset our approach and bypass the midfield. I must have imagined all the results we've got playing possession football then!

there was some great passages of play for us last night (the fifteen passes in our own box wasn't one of those), when we got between the lines. Just not quite enough of them. There were quite a lot of times when players had time to turn but didn't, but that's been the case all season. Sometimes it felt like we were almost giving the opponent too much respect. Instead of just passing it through the middle or to the wide man and attacking, we took 20 passes to go nowhere. Again, thats happened all season. 

I didn't think we mixed in enough longer balls last night. I can only remember one long ball and a poor defensive header went straight to Fraser who shot, which was deflected for a corner.  It made me think perhaps we ought to do that a few times a half at least. That said, in the second half when we were chasing the game, we were less measured and patient and we looked much worse, which made me think our controlled slow build up is perhaps our only effective approach. 

We'll bounce back. Got to get that central midfield three working better though at WBA. 

[CamSaint]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Hopefully with Bree back in LB it enables KWP to get forward further and Bree compresses in to make it a 3 at the back as manning assists nothing and is just caught out a lot.

I believe that Bree is playing for the U-21s on Friday.

[Chez]

55 minutes ago, JRM said:

We must be overdue another 9-0 

I always think there is the potential for 9-0 against these top sides. You almost always ride your luck to a certain extent. If they take a high percentage of the chances they create, you are fucked. It will be tough for us, as we have spent all season with the ball at our feet. We haven't played too many teams that have dominated us. WBA at home (second half) was one of those and we looked stretched to say the least. Sneaked a goal against the run of play and won. Maybe we can do that again. Maybe.  

[saintant]

Having slept on it I feel less gutted about last night's result. Having grown accustomed to winning most games I think it hit harder because I never expect us to lose now which is a naive attitude to adopt. Sure, the manner of the defeat raised concerns the main one of which is, how do we set up when Downes is out of the team? We certainly have nobody who can slot in seamlessly so maybe RM has to consider changing the formation. That said we have just put together a 25 match unbeaten run which is an incredible achievement and we didn't become a bad side overnight. We are still well placed to battle it out for second place. Even if we miss out I'd take our chances against anyone in the Play-Offs. On to West Brom and hopefully a better performance and result. Still much to be optimistic about.

[Patches O Houlihan]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Having slept on it I feel less gutted about last night's result. Having grown accustomed to winning most games I think it hit harder because I never expect us to lose now which is a naive attitude to adopt. Sure, the manner of the defeat raised concerns the main one of which is, how do we set up when Downes is out of the team? We certainly have nobody who can slot in seamlessly so maybe RM has to consider changing the formation. That said we have just put together a 25 match unbeaten run which is an incredible achievement and we didn't become a bad side overnight. We are still well placed to battle it out for second place. Even if we miss out I'd take our chances against anyone in the Play-Offs. On to West Brom and hopefully a better performance and result. Still much to be optimistic about.

Last time Downes was injured we fixed it by playing Bree at LB and having the two full backs be less adventurous.

[suewhistle]

I only saw a bit of the match at the start before I made the correct decision to go off to training (!) but the passing seemed off, there seemed little rythym and no drive or pace. It occurred to me that they were trying to pace themselves with so many games with only two clear days off between them.

Hopefully they've got it out of their system for Friday, but we seem to have plenty of attack minded players now but thin in defensive midfield, and this has been noted by most of us and no doubt our opponents. Could Aribo do a decent job there, he certainly has the strength?

 

[saintant]

Just now, Patches O Houlihan said:

Last time Downes was injured we fixed it by playing Bree at LB and having the two full backs be less adventurous.

It's a good point but obviously Bree is only just back from injury and won't figure on Friday. Teams are working out that the place to attack us is down the flanks, get close to the byeline then cut low balls across the box. I think a back five is the way to go against West Brom with the two wing backs instructed not to be too gung-ho to hopefully restore some defensive stability.

Smallbone is not the same player when Downes is missing which is another problem that needs solving. He can't play as the defensive hold that's for sure. Smallbone and Downes have developed a telepathic understanding and work great in tandem - take out Downes and it's a very different picture because his replacement ,whoever it, is fails to do the job which leaves us with an ineffective midfield.

[saintant]

It's been mentioned and I agree that the state of the pitch proved a great leveller last night. It certainly didn't suit our passing game. In hindsight perhaps we should have factored that in and been more willing to hit long balls to the flanks or through the centre - that's the way Brizzle played and it was way more effective. We kept getting bogged down and losing the ball and they then broke on us very swiftly.

[SambaMaverick]

This is a fucking crazy season, that's for sure.

Long live the Championship and everything. I wish we could stay a while but as I said last night, watching a team full of Ryan fucking Mannings in seasons two or three would just become heartbreaking.

 

[warsash saint]

2 hours ago, CeeBee said:

Still not a fan of this possession football. City were so much more energetic and completely nullified our stilted efforts.

Have to say, really liked Ashton Gate stadium, and the locals made me smile with their rendering of WTS go 3 nil down.

Yeah them 25 game unbeaten runs playing possession football are really shite aren't they!!

[saintant]

Anyone else think their first goal was offside? Surely when the ball was played their guy was in an offside position and, the fact that it reached him via a deflection off Smallbone, shouldn't make any difference. Apologies if wrong as I get confused by the constant rule changes but I always thought offside applied from the moment ball is kicked by attacker.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Yeah them 25 game unbeaten runs playing possession football are really shite aren't they!!

I like it when we execute it well. I would like to see us having a different approach if required though. Like someone said, last night we needed to recognise the state of the pitch and adapt accordingly. 

[Channons Windmill]

Well that was a fascinating game to watch -  four things I really couldn’t understand. 1) why at times bring the game to an almost complete stand if you then haven’t got a plan for the next progression? Had we come for a nil-nil?  2) it’s many years since I’ve seen a player as one footed as Manning. Almost every time he got the ball on the inside he had to turn into the centre of the pitch. City’s right side defence couldn’t believe their luck.  3) Sulemama - came on looking manic. What was his purpose?  4) it was pretty obvious from the close of the first half how City were going to expose our weak spots, yet we didn’t change (apart from a brief period when the full backs swapped sides). As my partner pointed out, it was brains v brawn.. and brawn won

Edited February 14 by Channons Windmill

[saintant]

46 minutes ago, 6ft8saint said:

 Why is it that this is a forum site for saints fans yet if you express a free willed opinion so called "super fans" jump down on you and then just get very rude. 

 

As for last night and the 1st half against Watford in cup and huddersfield. We were a shadow of the side we were for the past 25 matches. I get possession build up play but sometimes it'd just silly. Passes across the open mouth of goal. Silly passes directly to the keeper when there's a man on both (smallbone). Silly non direct and slow laboured passing. These teams and pundits are reading our play now and they are setting up for it. We need to adapt and mix it up more. Maybe if manning is a concern move kwp to his position and meghoma in rb.

 

Yes so somehow we have got to 25 unbeaten and there have been some epic games. However we are more than a one man team so we should be building this on flynn not being back and if he is it's a bonus.

 

As for tiredness they are professional sports people they are paid well enough and train for exactly this football.

 

We can get back to second win Friday and then our in hand game is Tuesday both tough but winnable.

 

Watch the criticism comming now.

 

COYR

Agree we need to mix it up more with some longer balls especially when the pitch is as shit as last night.

[Micky]

13 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

This is a fucking crazy season, that's for sure.

Long live the Championship and everything. I wish we could stay a while but as I said last night, watching a team full of Ryan fucking Mannings in seasons two or three would just become heartbreaking.

 

Especially as its looking highly likely that they would need to win the south coast derby as well...!

[Sheaf Saint]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

Anyone else think their first goal was offside? Surely when the ball was played their guy was in an offside position and, the fact that it reached him via a deflection off Smallbone, shouldn't make any difference. Apologies if wrong as I get confused by the constant rule changes but I always thought offside applied from the moment ball is kicked by attacker.

If the ball is played forward off a defender to an attacker in an offside position, it's not offside. 

This has always been the case, it's not a recent change.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If the ball is played forward off a defender to an attacker in an offside position, it's not offside. 

This has always been the case, it's not a recent change.

Not 100% sure that's the case as surely offside comes into play the moment the ball is passed.

[Sheaf Saint]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

Not 100% sure that's the case as surely offside comes into play the moment the ball is passed.

Only if it's played forward. In this instance the ball was played backwards before it came off Smallbone, and the player who was offside was the one who passed it in the first place.

https://youtu.be/t0MAco6Lzio?t=192

Edited February 14 by Sheaf Saint

[Totton Saint]

Why was Edozie taken off.  He was far better than his replacement. We seemed to be playing in a trance with. no intent in getting forward and scoring. Such a shame

[SambaMaverick]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Only if it's played forward. In this instance the ball was played backwards before it came off Smallbone, and the player who was offside was the one who passed it in the first place.

https://youtu.be/t0MAco6Lzio?t=192

Also Smallbone played at the ball deliberately.

[Charlie Wayman]

The result and performance were a huge disappointment for fans after our recent success but there seemed to have been something amiss from the start last night. The lack of pace, the lack of creativity, the unwillingness to run into space for passes and the sloppy passing suggested physical and emotional fatigue following the exertions of Saturday afternoon. We just seemed lazy and half-hearted.

Unsurprisingly we were comprehensively out-thought and out played by a much better and brighter team on the night. Even, may I dare say it, Liam Manning was the better coach. He had us sussed out completely and countered pretty much every tactic that Russell Martin tried to employ. Their defence was superbly drilled and we just didn't have the guile to find a way through it.

There is little doubt that Bristol City on last night's showing - and in that of their previous match - will be serious promotion contenders.

As for us, we need to get back on track with the fast slick passing football that annihilated Swansea recently;  what better team to demonstrate a reaction on than a rival promotion candidate WBA.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Why was Edozie taken off.  He was far better than his replacement. We seemed to be playing in a trance with. no intent in getting forward and scoring. Such a shame

Agree totally bloody daft decision. Martin seems compelled to play his on loan players for reasons that are beyond me, especially as half of them won't be here next season. Fraser was invisible last night and neither of the Bournemouth lads did much of note.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Why was Edozie taken off.  He was far better than his replacement. We seemed to be playing in a trance with. no intent in getting forward and scoring. Such a shame

He's only just returned from injury and is still getting back to match fitness.

[Totton Saint]

36 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He's only just returned from injury and is still getting back to match fitness.

The only way to get match fit is to play a whole match. Judging by so many misplaced passes it was a dispossession tactic rather a possessions one.

So infuriating seeing so many passes back to our goalie. Charlie W's  succinct synopsis of the way we played is spot on.

Who arranged for  us to play 2 away games in such a short time?

[Tommy Mulgrew]

We played the first half with one DM who is young, inexperienced and misplaced several passes.  We played the second half with no DM.  We played 70% of the match with two players who have only just arrived here and look lost when they do not have the ball; DB and JR did not make themselves available enough and that led to lots of misplaced passes by others.  We played most of the match without a proper CF.  We played all the match without a properLB.  WS was poor throughout and was hopeless when trying to play as a DM; he misplaced passes and won no duels.  We played too slowly and indecisively, just like in September.  THB looked appalled by what was happening in front of him.  GB had a good game despite the three goals. RM’s hairdryer was not big enough (and no good for WS anyway).

On to the next game.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

Why was Edozie taken off.  He was far better than his replacement. We seemed to be playing in a trance with. no intent in getting forward and scoring. Such a shame

Brooks and Edozie caused them plenty of problems in the first half. I thought they were our best players. We obviously have lots of options out wide, but I'd of been pretty fucked off if I was Edozie. The replacements didn't get near the same heights. For me, the issue was we didn't get the ball to Edozie and Brooks enough, not the inability to do anything when they got the ball. Poor decision by RM. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The result and performance were a huge disappointment for fans after our recent success but there seemed to have been something amiss from the start last night. The lack of pace, the lack of creativity, the unwillingness to run into space for passes and the sloppy passing suggested physical and emotional fatigue following the exertions of Saturday afternoon. We just seemed lazy and half-hearted.

Unsurprisingly we were comprehensively out-thought and out played by a much better and brighter team on the night. Even, may I dare say it, Liam Manning was the better coach. He had us sussed out completely and countered pretty much every tactic that Russell Martin tried to employ. Their defence was superbly drilled and we just didn't have the guile to find a way through it.

There is little doubt that Bristol City on last night's showing - and in that of their previous match - will be serious promotion contenders.

As for us, we need to get back on track with the fast slick passing football that annihilated Swansea recently;  what better team to demonstrate a reaction on than a rival promotion candidate WBA.

 

Serious promotion candidates? What season? All I saw was a bang average Championship team like more than half of the shit in this division. They weren't anything special, as with most teams in this league, just more physical than us. 

[Wade Garrett]

5 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Leeds celebrating like they got promoted last night, their fixation on overtaking us hopefully means they take the eye off the ball over the coming weeks.

Would like a no frills 1-0 on Fri or even a draw - need to get something from the game, need to arrest these goals conceded.

Hopefully with Bree back in LB it enables KWP to get forward further and Bree compresses in to make it a 3 at the back as manning assists nothing and is just caught out a lot.

 

Great shout regarding Bree.  Manning is a fucking awful defender.