Ipswich 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Galway saint]

26 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You must have been watching a completely different game from me today then, cos I saw no evidence us launching long balls to Armstrong at all. 

25 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You must have been watching a completely different game from me today then, cos I saw no evidence us launching long balls to Armstrong at all. 

I agree - thought that was at times what we needed 

I wonder why our scouts thought quarshie was a good player, particularly if you want to be a team that plays out from the back - thought he looked awful 

[saintstowin]

The build up to and the OG (multiple nominees), the Welington air-shot volley that led to a 75 yard one on one, and the Stephens header to nobody apart from their striker should all make it into the wtf awards at the end of the season.

[Nolan]

passmap from The Analyst shows how Ipswich stopped forward passing from Welington, Quarshie or Stephens to Charles.

 

[Harry_SFC]

24 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

Age is irrelevant. 

He really hasn't, quite the opposite in fact. I've also thought he looks quite sluggish. A long throw is pointless when it goes to nobody/we have no target man to get on it anyway. He's a donkey.....same sort of calibre as BBD.

I wouldn't say he's sluggish but he certainly needs to work on his passing and overall awareness. He does some things well and others not so good. Silly to write him off already.

[Chez]

16 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

I agree - thought that was at times what we needed 

I wonder why our scouts thought quarshie was a good player, particularly if you want to be a team that plays out from the back - thought he looked awful 

Perhaps they wanted a player with the physical traits (height and pace) and ok talent with ball to compliment our ball playing cbs?

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I wouldn't say he's sluggish but he certainly needs to work on his passing and overall awareness. He does some things well and others not so good. Silly to write him off already.

We need to be careful not to expect too much of cbs in terms of passing out from the back...and to recognise when we are being pressed and have a suitable out ball.

 

[Vancouver Saint]

Will take the draw. Much better in the first half than the second. Missed the first 20 minutes and wondered why no Stewart or Downs - answered above...

 

[Galway saint]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

Perhaps they wanted a player with the physical traits (height and pace) and ok talent with ball to compliment our ball playing cbs?

he certainly has height and some pace but he looked a liability to me 

 

 

[SWLondon Saint]

Quarshie has looked about how you would expect a 21 year old CB who has never played in England or at this level before to look - raw. But given our other CBs are all slow as hell it makes sense to have at least one player you'd back in a footrace. He should develop a huge amount this season, not sure pre-season+ 2 champ game is really a fair sample to judge on... 

[StrangelyBrown]

4 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I suspect last season (and at the start of Martin's championship season) we don't get this point and we don't win that Wrexham game. This is the best team in the league (on paper), away from home, and we're a squad in transition coming off of one of the worst ever season's in English football's top flight. We evidently are now resilient - and hopefully we continue to get better and better.

A good point today, hopefully we can sort out the squad ASAP and get a wins out of stoke and Watford. Would be great to go into the derby unbeaten.

I'm not sure why everyone seems to have them as the best team on paper.

I may be blinkered, but how many of their players get into our side?

[Chez]

2 hours ago, derry said:

Quarshie and THB could improve their's and the team's performance immeasurably if they just stopped the short recycling and hit the ball up the lines. Most of our problems were caused by losing the ball cheaply and far too often.

Exactly what happened with the goal. Quarshie went short to Wellington, who had no space anyway, and then obviously between them made the error. It was like watching a Russel Martin side. It's admirable playing it out from the back, and teams that play the ball down the line all the time don't get promoted (IMO), but if you are being pressed as Ipswich always do, then maybe that's the game to not overplay and surprise teams with more channel ball stuff.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

19 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Quarshie has looked about how you would expect a 21 year old CB who has never played in England or at this level before to look - raw. But given our other CBs are all slow as hell it makes sense to have at least one player you'd back in a footrace. He should develop a huge amount this season, not sure pre-season+ 2 champ game is really a fair sample to judge on... 

He's put on his account today that he admits he didn't have his best game today, so he's very self-aware 😀

Is he primarily right footed and playing on the left side of centre? In golf speak, when he kicks, he seems to be slicing the ball. He needs to get his hips through the kick!

[Chez]

22 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

he certainly has height and some pace but he looked a liability to me 

 

 

He made a few mistakes under pressure, but they all do. He's not a rolls royce of a player, but I think the other centre backs are pretty shit in the air - which should be a fundamental element of a Cbs game - so sacrificing a little bit of football ability is worthwhile. Whether he can improve (that's not a given) to be effective this year and beyond we will see. If we are going to ask him to play out from the back, even when pressed, then it may be tough.

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 hours ago, Chez said:

I wasnt questioning your suggestion. I was just asking a question if you or anyone else knew when he last played down the middle. Not every post on here is someone looking for an arguement.

Fair enough. I don’t think he’s ever played down the middle for Saints or at least very rarely, but as you say that was where he had his best performances regrettably pre-Saints.

[SWLondon Saint]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

He made a few mistakes under pressure, but they all do. He's not a rolls royce of a player, but I think the other centre backs are pretty shit in the air - which should be a fundamental element of a Cbs game - so sacrificing a little bit of football ability is worthwhile. Whether he can improve (that's not a given) to be effective this year and beyond we will see. If we are going to ask him to play out from the back, even when pressed, then it may be tough.

He actually looked OK passing it out and even bringing it out in pre-season, but I think the speed and intensity of the pressing in real games has taken him by surprise. No disgrace there, Matusiwa for Ipswich has looked exactly the same in both games he's played for them, getting caught on the ball and hurried into mistakes both against us and Brum. And he's meant to be a finished product.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Fair enough. I don’t think he’s ever played down the middle for Saints or at least very rarely, but as you say that was where he had his best performances regrettably pre-Saints.

Don't think he played there for Sheff United (first time around). Less sure about Blackburn. They have a habit of playing centre forwards out wide. I think Gallagher also was played out there too for periods. Weird. How the hell to do you hit teams on the break with slow wide players? 

[Saint Fan CaM]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

He made a few mistakes under pressure, but they all do. He's not a rolls royce of a player, but I think the other centre backs are pretty shit in the air - which should be a fundamental element of a Cbs game - so sacrificing a little bit of football ability is worthwhile. Whether he can improve (that's not a given) to be effective this year and beyond we will see. If we are going to ask him to play out from the back, even when pressed, then it may be tough.

Agree with this - madness to expect a youngster to have a fully developed game. He’d have cost £40m and would be playing in a Prem side if he were the finished article. Think he’s doing ok.

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

He actually looked OK passing it out and even bringing it out in pre-season, but I think the speed and intensity of the pressing in real games has taken him by surprise. No disgrace there, Matusiwa for Ipswich has looked exactly the same in both games he's played for them, getting caught on the ball and hurried into mistakes both against us and Brum. And he's meant to be a finished product.

To be honest, I think he has looked much more comfortable on the ball than he did in the Hoffenheim game I watched. In that game he looked very ungainly. His accuracy and quality of passing though has been pretty poor. 

[Football Special]

Can't complain with a point away at Ipswich so will take that. However neither side were great (expect that was the best time to play them) 

Overall opinion from start of this season - I think it will be open and fans of other clubs should be excited, "parachute payment" clubs look nothing special. Good chance for a Stoke, Middlesbrough, Coventry etc to stake a claim for promotion 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

That Stephens header to maroon Bazza I mean WTF. Poor performance and we need to up our game considerably

[derry]

53 minutes ago, Chez said:

Exactly what happened with the goal. Quarshie went short to Wellington, who had no space anyway, and then obviously between them made the error. It was like watching a Russel Martin side. It's admirable playing it out from the back, and teams that play the ball down the line all the time don't get promoted (IMO), but if you are being pressed as Ipswich always do, then maybe that's the game to not overplay and surprise teams with more channel ball stuff.

I wasn't suggesting balls up to Wellington, I was suggesting missing him out and hitting the top left quarter for Robinson and Armstrong to attack the space and vice versa on the other side. I'm afraid balls to the full back invariably invites a return or square across the centre backs that's what was causing so many turnovers. 

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Can't complain with a point away at Ipswich so will take that. However neither side were great (expect that was the best time to play them) 

Overall opinion from start of this season - I think it will be open and fans of other clubs should be excited, "parachute payment" clubs look nothing special. Good chance for a Stoke, Middlesbrough, Coventry etc to stake a claim for promotion 

Agree us, Ipswich and Leicester have not been great but it's very early days. We'll have more idea a few games after the transfer window closes.

[maysie]

Great interview from Ryan Fraser on Solent after the game, worth a listen:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0lxh9ht

 

[Appy]

Would’ve taken 4 points from these first two for sure, especially as we’re not at it yet. 
 

We really need to get to a back four soon, we lack so much control without it. 
 

Bobby Madley was garbage for both teams. 

[SWLondon Saint]

9 minutes ago, maysie said:

Great interview from Ryan Fraser on Solent after the game, worth a listen:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0lxh9ht

 

Fair play to him, sounds like he really took the Leicester game - which was terrible - personally. Really like the way he talks about the whole squad being on it now and actually I think Manning said the same last week, sounds very different to RM who clearly had his favourites. 

[Osvaldorama]

Ultimately it’s a good point, away against the best team in the league (on paper) 

 

But feel like it was a missed opportunity.
 

Arma up front and 3 at the back still seems dumb to me. But I think there are a lot of positives. Add some wingers & strikers and we should be ok. 

[AlexLaw76]

Will Still post match comments;

 

• Was a great game, Premier League energy about it
• If you can't win, you have to not lose, and we did that
• the goal we conceded is frustrating as well as their big chances, all came form our mistakes
• But that is a positive also, we can rub that out of the game
• it was important to get back into it
• first half performance was positive and encouraging
• we ran out of steam a bit in the 2nd half
• This is a tough place to come, they will be right up there
• Being hypercritical, we need to rub those mistakes from our game, be more clean and tidy
• in both boxes especially
• 3 games this week, we have come a long way
• A game like that last season, we lose 3 or 4 nil after going a goal down early
• Good character and grit, with lots of encouraging things to work on
• Jay has been great, he is a good player, I am not bothered how old he is
• He is brave, great energy and scored a good goal
• He can trust himself more, he is that good
• He is at the beginning of his learning process
• Josh Quarshie stuck at it, he still young and has not played many games at this level
• We need to help him on the way, we all know there is competition and if you don't play well...
• we need to be more demanding
• Stephens was great, he has had criticism before but he has moved on and really enjoying it
• We want that, we want players to feel free, and it takes time
• I dunno about Tyler and Matty, it is a million dollar question
• They are training and professional. Matty lasted 60 mins but ran out of steam as expected
• It can change, it is not ideal but they are good players and it is normal others are interested

[Holmes_and_Watson]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Will Still post match comments;

• I dunno about Tyler and Matty, it is a million dollar question

Everton and West Ham will be pleased at the discount. 🙂

Thanks very much for the update as always.

Some common sense from him regarding Quarshie. Everyone out there could have made lots of better decisions, and they realised that, including him. Very early for him yet.

[Matthew Le God]

Post match press conference...

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 20:47 by Matthew Le God

[Chez]

2 hours ago, derry said:

I wasn't suggesting balls up to Wellington, 

Never thought you were. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

6 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Agree with this - madness to expect a youngster to have a fully developed game. He’d have cost £40m and would be playing in a Prem side if he were the finished article. Think he’s doing ok.

When we signed a 21yo centre back who most recently played in the German second division for €3.5m, I was ok with it but I didn't for a second think he'd be put straight into the team as a regular starter. I'm not sure why Still has thrown him in like that

[Nolan]

4 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

When we signed a 21yo centre back who most recently played in the German second division for €3.5m, I was ok with it but I didn't for a second think he'd be put straight into the team as a regular starter. I'm not sure why Still has thrown him in like that

Who scored stats for CB's yesterdays

 

Edited Monday at 04:43 by Nolan

[Danbert]

6 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

When we signed a 21yo centre back who most recently played in the German second division for €3.5m, I was ok with it but I didn't for a second think he'd be put straight into the team as a regular starter. I'm not sure why Still has thrown him in like that

He may well be the player to drop out when we move to a flat back four. Giving him a few games to get a feel for the intensity of the league makes sense to me given that, and I think his contribution has been valuable. Captain Jack and Harwood Belis haven't exactly covered themselves in glory either, and it's been nice to see someone replling balls into the box, albeit with the odd mistake.

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Danbert said:

He may well be the player to drop out when we move to a flat back four. Giving him a few games to get a feel for the intensity of the league makes sense to me given that, and I think his contribution has been valuable. Captain Jack and Harwood Belis haven't exactly covered themselves in glory either, and it's been nice to see someone replling balls into the box, albeit with the odd mistake.

He wins some headers. He attempts to win headers. I worry who will do that when it's Stephens and THB.

[qwertyell]

6 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

When we signed a 21yo centre back who most recently played in the German second division for €3.5m, I was ok with it but I didn't for a second think he'd be put straight into the team as a regular starter. I'm not sure why Still has thrown him in like that

Because Stephens, Harwood-Bellis, Edwards and, before he left, Bednarek don't have an ounce of pace between them.

Quarshie was signed to bring some physical attributes to the XI we were desperately lacking, not sit in the stands looking pretty. 

He's not covered himself in glory as yet (a whole two games) but is hardly alone on that front. 

[goodymatt]

Draw a fair result from my perspective, conceding that diabolical OG in the first few minutes made it hard for us to win the game. Ipswich with only 1 shot on target, plus the post hit and a few half chances. We looked very shaky first 20 mins but then settled into it and finished the first half well. Second half didn’t get going but managed to see the game out.

I think that we should have had a penalty for the Matusiwa foul, used his leg behind and pushed our player down. I make that 3 pens not awarded in our first 2 games.

[kitch]

16 hours ago, Nolan said:

passmap from The Analyst shows how Ipswich stopped forward passing from Welington, Quarshie or Stephens to Charles.

 

Their press was relentless down our left in the first half. Suspect that's why Welington lost his head a bit.

[kitch]

14 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

That Stephens header to maroon Bazza I mean WTF. Poor performance and we need to up our game considerably

In the PL we concede from that, guaranteed.

[Saint NL]

After watching the highlights again, we got really lucky with that missed header from Chaplin (I think). He's short so got under the ball, a taller player heads that down and it's 2-1.

I'm certain that with VAR, we would have been awarded a penalty for that tackle on Armstrong though. Curious to know why that wasn't given.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

After watching the highlights again, we got really lucky with that missed header from Chaplin (I think). He's short so got under the ball, a taller player heads that down and it's 2-1.

I'm certain that with VAR, we would have been awarded a penalty for that tackle on Armstrong though. Curious to know why that wasn't given.

Not enough for a penalty. 

[gio1saints]

3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Because Stephens, Harwood-Bellis, Edwards and, before he left, Bednarek don't have an ounce of pace between them.

Quarshie was signed to bring some physical attributes to the XI we were desperately lacking, not sit in the stands looking pretty. 

He's not covered himself in glory as yet (a whole two games) but is hardly alone on that front. 

Massively this. 👆.  He needs time but he’s a starter for me. 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

After watching the highlights again, we got really lucky with that missed header from Chaplin (I think). He's short so got under the ball, a taller player heads that down and it's 2-1.

I'm certain that with VAR, we would have been awarded a penalty for that tackle on Armstrong though. Curious to know why that wasn't given.

Sugagawa ducked as though he was fearful of getting hit, my god if Chaplin had scored!!!

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not enough for a penalty. 

You mean he didn't kick our man in the cajones after he had floored him? 

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

You mean he didn't kick our man in the cajones after he had floored him? 

I'm sure VAR would have caught that.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 hours ago, Saint NL said:

I'm certain that with VAR, we would have been awarded a penalty for that tackle on Armstrong though. Curious to know why that wasn't given.

No ref is going to award a penalty for an off the ball incident when the keeper is in possession. And rightly so, because a penalty is far too big a reward in a situation where the attacker didn't even have the ball. It's a weird one though because it was clearly a deliberate foul/obstruction, so the Ipswich player should have been penalised somehow.

[Whitey Grandad]

27 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

No ref is going to award a penalty for an off the ball incident when the keeper is in possession. And rightly so, because a penalty is far too big a reward in a situation where the attacker didn't even have the ball. It's a weird one though because it was clearly a deliberate foul/obstruction, so the Ipswich player should have been penalised somehow.

Six of one and four twenty-fourths of the other.

[davefizzy14]

Pretty happy with the point yesterday. We showed grit and courage to get back into the game yesterday. Lovely cross from Fraser for Jay Robinson to finish with a powerful downward header 😊 we are building momentum, COYR 😊

[suewhistle]

I think the number of likes for SWLondon Saint shows that many of us think that Quarshie didn't have a good game and both the player and WS know it, but many of us think he will improve and, in particular, adapt to the increased pace of the game here. None of the CBs covered themselves with glory..

Robinson is setting a really good example for Dibling, and I hope they have a friendship that allows for some friendly competition. It would be great to see them both on song at the same time. It was good too to see the hard work of Fraser, who went missing last season.

Talking of which; we know Aribo, Edozie and the mythical ABK want out, and so do we, but what's the situation with Smallbone?

 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, suewhistle said:

Robinson is setting a really good example for Dibling, and I hope they have a friendship that allows for some friendly competition. It would be great to see them both on song at the same time.

We have talked on here for a few years about building a side capable of staying up on promotion, and how the 2011 side was built on outstanding young talent like Lallana and Morgan. It wont happen, but a season of those two causing championship teams problems (followed by promotion, of course) could help us create that similar foundation to build on next season.

I'm getting way ahead of myself here aren't I? Your post Sue just allowed me to dream for two minutes of a better (saints) world.

[suewhistle]

Yes, I'm entirely realistic but having little dreams like that alongside a little black humour helps us cope!

Then we transfer in Spertsyan because "I so wanted to get promotion with such exciting young talent"...