The Players

[AlexLaw76]

I note many, probably with some good reason, are largely blaming the players for where we are. Given the state of last season, that seems fair enough

Even on the TSP today, they largely blamed the players, quite pointedly in many cases. Lots of they are shit, could not care etc.

But who do you think are the bad apples? Who is bring this house down that means are cant possibly be better than 20th (or wherever we are) in the Championship?

We have a match day squad packed with new additions from the summer, along with those who were out on loan last season. So who are those bring the house down.

Surely, it cant be - Jelert, Quarshie, Mads, Jander, Leo, Azaz, Fellows, Downs, Long.

I cannot see it being - Stephens (new deal and skipper, right), Arma, Stewart, Charles, Edwards, Wellington, Fraser, Robinson

Whilst the line above may be wrong, that leaves - Macca, Baz, THB, Wood, Downes, Archer Aribo, Edozie, Matsuki, Manning

We have let so many go, amazed that it seems most of those brought in/back in the summer are seemingly fucking arseholes......or is that a convenient excuse for not placing the responsibility more on (the fucking terrible) Will Still?

Edited 18 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Can't see Matsuki being a bad apple. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by JohnnyShearer2.0

[danjosaint]

THB and Downes possibly Wood as he was a RM boy 

Edited 18 hours ago by danjosaint

[Midfield_General]

From a toxic attitude perspective: Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Manning, probably Fraser, possibly Aribo. 

From the perspective of needing to be moved on because they are associated with relentless failure: Macca, Bazunu, Archer, Armstrong, Stephens. 

From the perspective of simply not being good enough to bring any value to the squad: Downs, Long. 

And Roerslev looked lazy as fuck on Saturday and couldn't be bothered to run so he can fuck off 'n' all. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Midfield_General

[leeham_69]

Not hard to guess that Aribo and Edozie who haven't wanted to be involved are on the naughty list. Flynn too who's spat the dummy about 4 times since RM left, or just been "too sick to play". I would guess THB thinks he's too good for the club too, the way he carries on every time we concede like it's everyone else's fault. I don't agree that it's unlikely to be Stephens - he carries on like a twat on the field, pulling hair and picking fights with players 10 times better than him - so why not off the field too?

[sockeye]

That’s the trouble, we don’t really know the full picture of what’s going on behind closed doors. We can only infer from rumours, results and remarks made by journalists.

I know some here are primarily concerned about reasons for underperformance that are clearly visible (Still’s formation and substitutions). I think to most though it is apparent that the players seem lethargic and unmotivated. This is the “dressing room rot” and I think it’s a cultural issue of bad feeling rather than bad actors intentionally causing destability. Here are some of my ideas of individual factors that could be contributing to this.

- Not liking/respecting the manager or coaches

- Not wanting to be at the club and missing out on a move

- Not mixing with other players or being part of a clique (2022/23 was rumoured to have a Francophone clique destabilising morale)

- Feeling like failure is rewarded or not adequately punished

- Lack of trust in the ownership / feeling of futility

- Feeling frustrated at losing a place in the squad / starting 11

- Feeling that their criticisms and thoughts are not heard

I’m not so confident as to single out individual players that could be contributing. Some situations that intrigue me in particular are Edozie & Aribo’s disappearance and Downes (and wider squad) recurrent illnesses.

When there is strife within a team they can perform well below the sum of their parts. It has been said that this group is exceptionally quiet, perhaps there are some deep grudges being held beneath the surface.

[CSA96]

Stephens was binned off at all costs by Ralph at a time where we didn't even have much by way of resources and for certain he repeatedly challenged his authority and would do so in front of the wider group 

I know a few players have since come out and criticised Ralph's people skills and said they had run-ins, but Captain Jack was the only one who pushed it enough to get shipped off to Bournemouth just to get him away

Edited 18 hours ago by CSA96

[Osvaldorama]

Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning. This is the core that definitely seem far from happy to me. 

The rest it’s hard to say. Have to assume most of them are fuming and unhappy after the last few weeks.

The whole crowd singing “not fit to wear the shirt” (although justified and true) can’t be good.. lol  

 

Fraser actually has worked hard under Still and seemingly showed a great attitude since he joined us. I know he had issues at previous clubs but can’t really fault his effort here. Of course who knows behind the scenes though. 
 

 

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning. This is the core that definitely seem far from happy to me. 
 

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

[Teamsaint1]

9 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

Downes will be high on the list of suspects, but I thought he was our best player on Saturday ( not hard) and I can't think of many occasions when he has let us down when starting. Which doesn't of course mean he isn't disruptive behind the scenes, and he obviously had the Juric issue, so he has a lot to prove.

 

Incidentally, Mads was just awful on saturday. Given a tough job but he really did nothing of any use at all , other than one interception IIRC. 

[Patrick Bateman]

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

Don't you find this brave and beautiful?

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

I can well believe that there are a section of players who weren't happy with Still but I can't see why they'd want Martin back specifically. He'd clearly lost the dressing room before that Spurs game where they all downed tools, so I doubt there's any particular nostalgia there.

I think they actually just want a manager that inspires confidence and leadership in A plan of some sort, rather than just putting out random teams and subs and hoping something happens.

[SaintNewForest]

53 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Stephens was binned off at all costs by Ralph at a time where we didn't even have much by way of resources and for certain he repeatedly challenged his authority and would do so in front of the wider group 

I know a few players have since come out and criticised Ralph's people skills and said they had run-ins, but Captain Jack was the only one who pushed it enough to get shipped off to Bournemouth just to get him away

So, we criticise players for not having a voice ... and we also criticise players for having a voice? Appreciate there's probably a very fine line, but from what I've heard, any form of dissent was not appreciated by Ralph. 

Ralph fell out with & binned off anyone who spoke up and could think for themselves. Bertrand, Ings, Forster, Bednarek etc

[CSA96]

2 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

So, we criticise players for not having a voice ... and we also criticise players for having a voice? Appreciate there's probably a very fine line, but from what I've heard, any form of dissent was not appreciated by Ralph. 

Ralph fell out with & binned off anyone who spoke up and could think for themselves. Bertrand, Ings, Forster, Bednarek etc

If someone's a loud mouth, I'd like them to not be shit. Nobody moans about Ryan Bertrand because although he clashed with Ralph (and other Saints staff) he was fucking good at his job and kept it professional enough

With those other names, he didn't bin those guys off though, did he? Bertrand chose to decline a contract offer and move to Leicester and earn over £100k pw, which was a mental financial decision by them and very quickly apparent as a bad idea by their hierarchy

Ings was sold for big money and was never the same player again, while Forster was a shadow of his former self anyway. He hasn't had a starting gig since leaving Saints. Bednarek shouldn't have been required to start at PL level in any case, as we've all established many times

[Pamplemousse]

Anyone who was here last season.

With the exception of Adam Armstrong, Ross Stewart (he was injured anyway last season so doesn't count) and at times Wood, the rest have been utterly awful. Not just in performances, but attitude and application.

We need to build a team around the likes of Scienza, Jander and Charles, and start shipping out a number of individuals who for whatever reason are damaged goods. Yes last season was tough but you can't be that fragile mentally, you have no chance of succeeding at the top level. Time to get ruthless.

[Sir Ralph]

Those that have been here over at least the last 2-3 seasons are likely to be part of the problem and need to go, barring a couple who try

[Turkish]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

💯

we need a strong leader someone to come in with a bit of gravitas. Not a coach or a nice guy, someone to galvanise the team. 
 

the problem is those that running the club want these coaches, out of the box thinking and want to be in control 

[Midfield_General]

37 minutes ago, Turkish said:

💯

we need a strong leader someone to come in with a bit of gravitas. Not a coach or a nice guy, someone to galvanise the team. 
 

the problem is those that running the club want these coaches, out of the box thinking and want to be in control 

I can see the board getting fanny dazzled by Gerrard, Rooney or someone like that because they think a track record of playing achievements might win the players round who weren't having Still and his lack of one

Edited 16 hours ago by Midfield_General

[saintant]

2 hours ago, danjosaint said:

THB and Downes possibly Wood as he was a RM boy 

Add Stephens to that list ever since he was dropped.

[S-Clarke]

I personally think there are a core of players who haven't been happy ever since their boyfriend was sacked. Evidence shows that with Downes throwing his toys out of the pram in January.

There are a group of guys, I'd say Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning who have been anti anything Russ-Ball and I can see them as the sorts who'd make it difficult for anyone else. I felt sorry for Juric, he wanted to use Downes but he simply made himself unavailable.

This is also why I feel the new guys have found it hard to fit in, they look like odd ones out as I genuinely think there is a toxic clique not making it easy for them to bed in. I may be totally wrong here, but it feels like that to me.

My priority if I was involved at the club would be to rip that clique out, but it seems as if there is a genuine thought that we should appease them by bringing back their boyfriend. I'd be flabbergasted and it would trump anything that SR have done before, which takes some doing.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The sheer stupidity of appointing a 32 year old when all your players need is some wily old veteran to build them up again.

[saintant]

Most of these players need the wrath of an experienced manager who is going to come in, rattle a lot of cages, bruise some egos, trample on a few flowers, point out the weakness both physically and mentally, tell it exactly how it is, read some fortunes and lay down some ground rules. That'll put, the fox in the hen coop 🙂