The Players

[AlexLaw76]

I note many, probably with some good reason, are largely blaming the players for where we are. Given the state of last season, that seems fair enough

Even on the TSP today, they largely blamed the players, quite pointedly in many cases. Lots of they are shit, could not care etc.

But who do you think are the bad apples? Who is bring this house down that means are cant possibly be better than 20th (or wherever we are) in the Championship?

We have a match day squad packed with new additions from the summer, along with those who were out on loan last season. So who are those bring the house down.

Surely, it cant be - Jelert, Quarshie, Mads, Jander, Leo, Azaz, Fellows, Downs, Long.

I cannot see it being - Stephens (new deal and skipper, right), Arma, Stewart, Charles, Edwards, Wellington, Fraser, Robinson

Whilst the line above may be wrong, that leaves - Macca, Baz, THB, Wood, Downes, Archer Aribo, Edozie, Matsuki, Manning

We have let so many go, amazed that it seems most of those brought in/back in the summer are seemingly fucking arseholes......or is that a convenient excuse for not placing the responsibility more on (the fucking terrible) Will Still?

Edited Monday at 10:09 by AlexLaw76

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Can't see Matsuki being a bad apple. 

 

Edited Monday at 10:09 by JohnnyShearer2.0

[danjosaint]

THB and Downes possibly Wood as he was a RM boy 

Edited Monday at 10:19 by danjosaint

[Midfield_General]

From a toxic attitude perspective: Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Manning, probably Fraser, possibly Aribo. 

From the perspective of needing to be moved on because they are associated with relentless failure: Macca, Bazunu, Archer, Armstrong, Stephens. 

From the perspective of simply not being good enough to bring any value to the squad: Downs, Long. 

And Roerslev looked lazy as fuck on Saturday and couldn't be bothered to run so he can fuck off 'n' all. 

 

Edited Monday at 10:38 by Midfield_General

[leeham_69]

Not hard to guess that Aribo and Edozie who haven't wanted to be involved are on the naughty list. Flynn too who's spat the dummy about 4 times since RM left, or just been "too sick to play". I would guess THB thinks he's too good for the club too, the way he carries on every time we concede like it's everyone else's fault. I don't agree that it's unlikely to be Stephens - he carries on like a twat on the field, pulling hair and picking fights with players 10 times better than him - so why not off the field too?

[sockeye]

That’s the trouble, we don’t really know the full picture of what’s going on behind closed doors. We can only infer from rumours, results and remarks made by journalists.

I know some here are primarily concerned about reasons for underperformance that are clearly visible (Still’s formation and substitutions). I think to most though it is apparent that the players seem lethargic and unmotivated. This is the “dressing room rot” and I think it’s a cultural issue of bad feeling rather than bad actors intentionally causing destability. Here are some of my ideas of individual factors that could be contributing to this.

- Not liking/respecting the manager or coaches

- Not wanting to be at the club and missing out on a move

- Not mixing with other players or being part of a clique (2022/23 was rumoured to have a Francophone clique destabilising morale)

- Feeling like failure is rewarded or not adequately punished

- Lack of trust in the ownership / feeling of futility

- Feeling frustrated at losing a place in the squad / starting 11

- Feeling that their criticisms and thoughts are not heard

I’m not so confident as to single out individual players that could be contributing. Some situations that intrigue me in particular are Edozie & Aribo’s disappearance and Downes (and wider squad) recurrent illnesses.

When there is strife within a team they can perform well below the sum of their parts. It has been said that this group is exceptionally quiet, perhaps there are some deep grudges being held beneath the surface.

[CSA96]

Stephens was binned off at all costs by Ralph at a time where we didn't even have much by way of resources and for certain he repeatedly challenged his authority and would do so in front of the wider group 

I know a few players have since come out and criticised Ralph's people skills and said they had run-ins, but Captain Jack was the only one who pushed it enough to get shipped off to Bournemouth just to get him away

Edited Monday at 10:40 by CSA96

[Osvaldorama]

Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning. This is the core that definitely seem far from happy to me. 

The rest it’s hard to say. Have to assume most of them are fuming and unhappy after the last few weeks.

The whole crowd singing “not fit to wear the shirt” (although justified and true) can’t be good.. lol  

 

Fraser actually has worked hard under Still and seemingly showed a great attitude since he joined us. I know he had issues at previous clubs but can’t really fault his effort here. Of course who knows behind the scenes though. 
 

 

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning. This is the core that definitely seem far from happy to me. 
 

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

[Teamsaint1]

9 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

Downes will be high on the list of suspects, but I thought he was our best player on Saturday ( not hard) and I can't think of many occasions when he has let us down when starting. Which doesn't of course mean he isn't disruptive behind the scenes, and he obviously had the Juric issue, so he has a lot to prove.

 

Incidentally, Mads was just awful on saturday. Given a tough job but he really did nothing of any use at all , other than one interception IIRC. 

[Patrick Bateman]

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

Don't you find this brave and beautiful?

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I would think these are a dead cert and they would be the ones who want Martin back for obvious reasons.

I can well believe that there are a section of players who weren't happy with Still but I can't see why they'd want Martin back specifically. He'd clearly lost the dressing room before that Spurs game where they all downed tools, so I doubt there's any particular nostalgia there.

I think they actually just want a manager that inspires confidence and leadership in A plan of some sort, rather than just putting out random teams and subs and hoping something happens.

[SaintNewForest]

53 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Stephens was binned off at all costs by Ralph at a time where we didn't even have much by way of resources and for certain he repeatedly challenged his authority and would do so in front of the wider group 

I know a few players have since come out and criticised Ralph's people skills and said they had run-ins, but Captain Jack was the only one who pushed it enough to get shipped off to Bournemouth just to get him away

So, we criticise players for not having a voice ... and we also criticise players for having a voice? Appreciate there's probably a very fine line, but from what I've heard, any form of dissent was not appreciated by Ralph. 

Ralph fell out with & binned off anyone who spoke up and could think for themselves. Bertrand, Ings, Forster, Bednarek etc

[CSA96]

2 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

So, we criticise players for not having a voice ... and we also criticise players for having a voice? Appreciate there's probably a very fine line, but from what I've heard, any form of dissent was not appreciated by Ralph. 

Ralph fell out with & binned off anyone who spoke up and could think for themselves. Bertrand, Ings, Forster, Bednarek etc

If someone's a loud mouth, I'd like them to not be shit. Nobody moans about Ryan Bertrand because although he clashed with Ralph (and other Saints staff) he was fucking good at his job and kept it professional enough

With those other names, he didn't bin those guys off though, did he? Bertrand chose to decline a contract offer and move to Leicester and earn over £100k pw, which was a mental financial decision by them and very quickly apparent as a bad idea by their hierarchy

Ings was sold for big money and was never the same player again, while Forster was a shadow of his former self anyway. He hasn't had a starting gig since leaving Saints. Bednarek shouldn't have been required to start at PL level in any case, as we've all established many times

[Pamplemousse]

Anyone who was here last season.

With the exception of Adam Armstrong, Ross Stewart (he was injured anyway last season so doesn't count) and at times Wood, the rest have been utterly awful. Not just in performances, but attitude and application.

We need to build a team around the likes of Scienza, Jander and Charles, and start shipping out a number of individuals who for whatever reason are damaged goods. Yes last season was tough but you can't be that fragile mentally, you have no chance of succeeding at the top level. Time to get ruthless.

[Sir Ralph]

Those that have been here over at least the last 2-3 seasons are likely to be part of the problem and need to go, barring a couple who try

[Turkish]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think this is EXACTLY why we need an experienced manager who is not trying to be their best mate.

We need someone with age on their side and experience with winning something to command some respect.  This type of person would come in, explain how they want things to run and invite anyone who is not "on board" to say so (privately) and they would be found a new home.  The key word is "privately", it should be between the manager and the player, not between players and certainly not made visible to the paying public. 

This matey matey coach crap has to stop as I do think the players should take MORE of the blame than they are, but they have been allowed to do so. 

Just my 2p anyway - may not be right, but that's what I want to see. 

💯

we need a strong leader someone to come in with a bit of gravitas. Not a coach or a nice guy, someone to galvanise the team. 
 

the problem is those that running the club want these coaches, out of the box thinking and want to be in control 

[Midfield_General]

37 minutes ago, Turkish said:

💯

we need a strong leader someone to come in with a bit of gravitas. Not a coach or a nice guy, someone to galvanise the team. 
 

the problem is those that running the club want these coaches, out of the box thinking and want to be in control 

I can see the board getting fanny dazzled by Gerrard, Rooney or someone like that because they think a track record of playing achievements might win the players round who weren't having Still and his lack of one

Edited Monday at 12:37 by Midfield_General

[saintant]

2 hours ago, danjosaint said:

THB and Downes possibly Wood as he was a RM boy 

Add Stephens to that list ever since he was dropped.

[S-Clarke]

I personally think there are a core of players who haven't been happy ever since their boyfriend was sacked. Evidence shows that with Downes throwing his toys out of the pram in January.

There are a group of guys, I'd say Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning who have been anti anything Russ-Ball and I can see them as the sorts who'd make it difficult for anyone else. I felt sorry for Juric, he wanted to use Downes but he simply made himself unavailable.

This is also why I feel the new guys have found it hard to fit in, they look like odd ones out as I genuinely think there is a toxic clique not making it easy for them to bed in. I may be totally wrong here, but it feels like that to me.

My priority if I was involved at the club would be to rip that clique out, but it seems as if there is a genuine thought that we should appease them by bringing back their boyfriend. I'd be flabbergasted and it would trump anything that SR have done before, which takes some doing.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The sheer stupidity of appointing a 32 year old when all your players need is some wily old veteran to build them up again.

[saintant]

Most of these players need the wrath of an experienced manager who is going to come in, rattle a lot of cages, bruise some egos, trample on a few flowers, point out the weakness both physically and mentally, tell it exactly how it is, read some fortunes and lay down some ground rules. That'll put, the fox in the hen coop 🙂 

[danjosaint]

On 03/11/2025 at 12:53, saintant said:

Most of these players need the wrath of an experienced manager who is going to come in, rattle a lot of cages, bruise some egos, trample on a few flowers, point out the weakness both physically and mentally, tell it exactly how it is, read some fortunes and lay down some ground rules. That'll put, the fox in the hen coop 🙂 

Wasn't that what Juric was supposed to have done 

[saintant]

Haven't read it but, according to Ugly Inside, there is an article in the Echo quoting AA as saying the players haven't been giving 100% because they didn't like Will Still and his methods. Anyone read it? For our captain to say this publicly is pretty disgraceful as is not giving 100%. Whatever the player views on the manager they should never give less than 100% for the football club and the fans. If we've been losing games through a lack of effort that's pretty damning if true. 

[skintsaint]

15 minutes ago, saintant said:

Haven't read it but, according to Ugly Inside, there is an article in the Echo quoting AA as saying the players haven't been giving 100% because they didn't like Will Still and his methods. Anyone read it? For our captain to say this publicly is pretty disgraceful as is not giving 100%. Whatever the player views on the manager they should never give less than 100% for the football club and the fans. If we've been losing games through a lack of effort that's pretty damning if true. 

AA seems part of the bad core of the group if this is true.

[sledger]

what a stupid thing to say even though we all know its true

[sfc4prem]

9 minutes ago, sledger said:

what a stupid thing to say even though we all know its true

Ward-Prowse's comment back in the day was that 'standards have slipped'. Much more politically astute than Mr Armstrong, seemingly.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

AA seems part of the bad core of the group if this is true.

He might just be calling out some of his teammates who he thinks aren't pulling their weight. There are many legitimate criticisms that can be leveled at Arma, but lack of effort is never one of them.

Edit: This appears to be the article in question but it's behind a pay wall. https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/25589458.armstrong-admits-southampton-players-havent-given-100/

Anybody got an Echo subscription and will summarise it for us?

Edited 12 hours ago by Sheaf Saint

[Fabrice29]

I’m probably in the camp of the players being to blame and would prefer we allowed a manager some time to sort that out but these guys people are calling bad apples since Martin have gone…have we considered they just want us to get back to better/higher standards than the slop they’ve worked with since? 

[23rdSaint]

19 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He might just be calling out some of his teammates who he thinks aren't pulling their weight. There are many legitimate criticisms that can be leveled at Arma, but lack of effort is never one of them.

Edit: This appears to be the article in question but it's behind a pay wall. https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/25589458.armstrong-admits-southampton-players-havent-given-100/

Anybody got an Echo subscription and will summarise it for us?

Not sure it's quite as bad as suggested on UI. Direct quotes taken:

"Not a single one of us goes out there and says, 'I'm not trying today'.

That's our job. This is what we get paid to do. We have to perform on the pitch. If we're not performing, we have to give 100 per cent work rate.

At the minute, we haven't been doing that. That's the kind of thing we have to drill into the squad. If we're not going to win games, we have to work hard for everyone.

Everyone has to see that we're running our balls off for everyone and for the fans. Things will start to change when we start doing that.

That's the conversation we've had in there. We have to dig ourselves out of this hole. Keep working hard. Games come thick and fast.

I'm p***** off. It ain't good to be in. I'm the one around the leaders. We have to get going again and bring it back on Wednesday night.

There are enough leaders, but I think the leaders in there are p***ed off as well. It's kind of a hard one.

You have to choose what you want to say because there are a lot of young boys in there. I always touch on that. We haven't been good enough. It's as simple as that.

You can say, 'Oh tactics this, tactics that, formations'. But we haven't been good enough. I think that's the thing that we have to get out of.

It's only us that can do that. We're the ones on the pitch. It's a s*** one. We have to take it on the chin and f****** go again."

I think it's everything. I think it's everything in one.

Essentially, we're the ones on the pitch that have to do it. You can say it's other people or anyone, but it's us on the pitch. I think that's the only thing I can go off.

We have to be better. It's so frustrating when you look at a squad and you see them training every day, and the good players that we've got in the squad still.

We just ain't doing it on a Saturday afternoon. Until that changes, we have to dig ourselves out of this hole."

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Not sure it's quite as bad as suggested on UI. Direct quotes taken:

"Not a single one of us goes out there and says, 'I'm not trying today'.

That's our job. This is what we get paid to do. We have to perform on the pitch. If we're not performing, we have to give 100 per cent work rate.

At the minute, we haven't been doing that. That's the kind of thing we have to drill into the squad. If we're not going to win games, we have to work hard for everyone.

Everyone has to see that we're running our balls off for everyone and for the fans. Things will start to change when we start doing that.

That's the conversation we've had in there. We have to dig ourselves out of this hole. Keep working hard. Games come thick and fast.

I'm p***** off. It ain't good to be in. I'm the one around the leaders. We have to get going again and bring it back on Wednesday night.

There are enough leaders, but I think the leaders in there are p***ed off as well. It's kind of a hard one.

You have to choose what you want to say because there are a lot of young boys in there. I always touch on that. We haven't been good enough. It's as simple as that.

You can say, 'Oh tactics this, tactics that, formations'. But we haven't been good enough. I think that's the thing that we have to get out of.

It's only us that can do that. We're the ones on the pitch. It's a s*** one. We have to take it on the chin and f****** go again."

I think it's everything. I think it's everything in one.

Essentially, we're the ones on the pitch that have to do it. You can say it's other people or anyone, but it's us on the pitch. I think that's the only thing I can go off.

We have to be better. It's so frustrating when you look at a squad and you see them training every day, and the good players that we've got in the squad still.

We just ain't doing it on a Saturday afternoon. Until that changes, we have to dig ourselves out of this hole."

I trust these tossers were docked wages on the back of this admission?

[Harry_SFC]

24 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He might just be calling out some of his teammates who he thinks aren't pulling their weight. There are many legitimate criticisms that can be leveled at Arma, but lack of effort is never one of them.

Edit: This appears to be the article in question but it's behind a pay wall. https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/25589458.armstrong-admits-southampton-players-havent-given-100/

Anybody got an Echo subscription and will summarise it for us?

Agreed. My views on AA are well known but I certainly can't fault him for a lack of effort.

THB, Downes, Manning, probably Stephens. Can't stand any of them. 

[Fabrice29]

On 03/11/2025 at 12:44, S-Clarke said:

There are a group of guys, I'd say Stephens, Downes, THB, Manning who have been anti anything Russ-Ball and I can see them as the sorts who'd make it difficult for anyone else. I felt sorry for Juric, he wanted to use Downes but he simply made himself unavailable.

This is just absolute nonsense again. Not only did those 4 get picked pretty regularly under Juric (and since) but Downes was playing with a couple of weeks of the end of January. It’s just weird narrative building that doesn’t really have any basis to it. If these were a problem because they liked RM then one of the 3 managers we’ve had since might have looked to have dropped, sold or called them out by now. And given only Stephen’s doesn’t get into the team, and we can put that down him not being good enough then we can call this theory the utter shite it appears to be I think. 

These 4 were pretty central to the team being promoted last time and probably wouldn’t mind the club getting to those standards again one day. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Fabrice29

[Lee On Solent Saint]

9 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Agreed. My views on AA are well known but I certainly can't fault him for a lack of effort.

THB, Downes, Manning, probably Stephens. Can't stand any of them. 

Bar one or two, this squad is throughly unlikeable. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

This is just absolute nonsense again. Not only did those 4 get picked pretty regularly under Juric (and since) but Downes was playing with a couple of weeks of the end of January. It’s just weird narrative building that doesn’t really have any basis to it. If these were a problem because they liked RM then one of the 3 managers we’ve had since might have looked to have dropped, sold or called them out by now. And given only Stephen’s doesn’t get into the team, and we can put that down him not being good enough then we can put theory down as utter shite I think. 

Or maybe SR blocked any attempts to sell said players? Or just maybe they are simpy shite and we had no takers for any of them.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Or maybe SR blocked any attempts to sell said players? Or just maybe they are simpy shite and we had no takers for any of them.

Why would they do that? 🤣 I’ll give you Manning and Stephen’s as shite if you like (there would be takers btw) but there would obviously be takers for THB and Downes if available. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Why would they do that? 🤣 I’ll give you Manning and Stephen’s as shite if you like (there would be takers btw) but there would obviously be takers for THB and Downes if available. 

Because we dumped a shed load already and SR baulked at stumping up yet more money to replace them? You seriously think there would be takers for Stephens and Manning? Not on what we are paying them I doubt. After the PL season we had, doubt there would have been too much interest in either THB or Downes either.

[Colinjb]

You say it Cannot be Stephens..... I disagree 

[SWLondon Saint]

18 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Why would they do that? 🤣 I’ll give you Manning and Stephen’s as shite if you like (there would be takers btw) but there would obviously be takers for THB and Downes if available. 

After last season you reckon there'd be takers? Not to mention lately THB has been getting dominated by the likes of Ollie McBurnie and whoever Blackburn had up front? And Downes is mostly reliable only for yellow cards and is sick half the time? You seriously think any Championship team would want to spend more than a couple million on them? 😅

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Contrast SFC with Athletic Bilbao:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cwyne3dnld2o

Amazing that, in this day and age, a policy like that can be so successful.  Some lessons in it for those who think player trading and recruiting from the lower reaches of the German leagues is the way forward.

[Willo of Whiteley]

On 03/11/2025 at 10:03, AlexLaw76 said:

I note many, probably with some good reason, are largely blaming the players for where we are. Given the state of last season, that seems fair enough

Even on the TSP today, they largely blamed the players, quite pointedly in many cases. Lots of they are shit, could not care etc.

But who do you think are the bad apples? Who is bring this house down that means are cant possibly be better than 20th (or wherever we are) in the Championship?

We have a match day squad packed with new additions from the summer, along with those who were out on loan last season. So who are those bring the house down.

Surely, it cant be - Jelert, Quarshie, Mads, Jander, Leo, Azaz, Fellows, Downs, Long.

I cannot see it being - Stephens (new deal and skipper, right), Arma, Stewart, Charles, Edwards, Wellington, Fraser, Robinson

Whilst the line above may be wrong, that leaves - Macca, Baz, THB, Wood, Downes, Archer Aribo, Edozie, Matsuki, Manning

We have let so many go, amazed that it seems most of those brought in/back in the summer are seemingly fucking arseholes......or is that a convenient excuse for not placing the responsibility more on (the fucking terrible) Will Still?

Downes is a certainty. Given he vocally wanted out over the winter last year.
Harwood-Bellis strikes me as someone that wanted the big move or was expecting it but didn’t get it, for that he could be sulking.
Edozie I would have up there, wasn’t part of the squad over pre-season and not this season after failing to get a move.

Aribo doesn’t strike me as a trouble maker, he strikes me as someone that wants to leave but won’t kick up a fuss or refuse to play or any of that shit. Hence his inclusion too at the weekend, if he was that disruptive I’m sure Will Still would’ve chucked Cam Bragg on the bench.

Stephens I’m iffy on, I can see him questioning a lot of decisions, but don’t think he’d be disruptive like the above.

Fraser, no, he and Russ fell out big time. Armstrong I wouldn’t have in the trouble maker bracket either.

McCarthy definitely isn’t. He doesn’t open his mouth on the pitch so why on earth would he off it? 🤣

[danjosaint]

It also does seem more feasible that article doing the rounds a couple of weeks back was indeed about us

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

Contrast SFC with Athletic Bilbao:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cwyne3dnld2o

Amazing that, in this day and age, a policy like that can be so successful.  Some lessons in it for those who think player trading and recruiting from the lower reaches of the German leagues is the way forward.

Yet Scienza, and Jander to a lesser extent, have been among our more reliable performers 

[die Mannyschaft]

Players are over valued and we paid top price well over the market rate. If we got the new players for £1m or £2m we wouldn't be putting blame on the players. Apart from 2 or 3 the team is very average and leaque 1, thats why we are in relegation, we cant beat si called rubbish teams. If players wanted to win they could, if the had creativity and quality on ball,  pace, vision. I don't see that we a lot including some new players. 

Yes tactics and game plan was totally useless, the subs caused more issues that helped.  But if you have very average players who are happy to kick the ball in a nonsense stupid way that's what we had got,  a 4th from bottom team. 

FFS cant players just play football.  Just been to Winchester City v Bidiford, 2 great goals from winch. End to end football. Hardly any shots in warm up flying in tow zz or corner flag like st Mary's. Saints better think about playing football or its the drop.

[hypochondriac]

On 03/11/2025 at 11:47, Pamplemousse said:

Anyone who was here last season.

With the exception of Adam Armstrong, Ross Stewart (he was injured anyway last season so doesn't count) and at times Wood, the rest have been utterly awful. Not just in performances, but attitude and application.

We need to build a team around the likes of Scienza, Jander and Charles, and start shipping out a number of individuals who for whatever reason are damaged goods. Yes last season was tough but you can't be that fragile mentally, you have no chance of succeeding at the top level. Time to get ruthless.

Let's name those players 

THB 

Manning 

Stephens 

Downes 

Archer 

Are by far the worst culprits. If none of them ever played for us again it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[benali-shorts]

I quite like scienza and Robinson, and fellows hasn't upset me yet. The rest of them can just about fuck off and become prostitutes for all I care. 

 

[Tamesaint]

Our match at Hull was when Still lost the dressing room. Downes had an "anti anyone except RM"  club going before then and Archer joined it after being dropped for DD for that game. DD then missed a really good chance in that game and didn't cover himself in glory. 

Still rang the changes after Hull. Everyone on Saintsweb seemed to support the dropping of Baz, Mads, THB and Stephens but I bet this upset the egos of these delicate flowers. All it then took were some crazy substitions at Derby and at Blackburn and I bet the dressing room was singing "you don't know what you 're doing". 

God knows how a new manager sorts this out but I think the line up at QPR is going to be interesting.