Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[sotonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

We're hardly going to hire a shit one.

We hired shit spies

[LGTL]

One senior judge today is making the decision. Hopefully he’s a season ticket holder in the Kingsland. 

[LegalEagle]

5 minutes ago, sotonjoe said:

 

Thank you. So who said it was sport resolutions handling original hearing and who reported the identities of individuals appointed to the panel by sport resolutions? Not challenging it  but I'm compiling my own records as I have nothing better to do

I believe the EFL said at some point it was these guys. As I said above, I don’t believe the panel members from yesterday have been announced. I slightly assumed that the Chair would have been chairing the panel yesterday but he could be doing the appeal for all I know.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Window Cleaner said:

Anyway, knowing the rules isn't an option. It's like the highway code, not knowing or understanding it isn't an excuse for driving too fast or running over people on Zebra crossings.

Everybody should know the laws or rules under which they operate.

There are 307 numbered rules in the highway code... Recite them all now without peeking...

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Why not? They finished fifth and only got beaten by a team who cheated. It's not like we're giving QPR a go at Wembley.

Because they lost over two games and the cheating had no material effect to the result. It is ridiculous that you can lose but still win. The only reason they lost is down to their shortcomings on the pitch. 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah, it's hard to see how his position is in any way tenable after this. He's done, surely. 

The players have worked their arses off and in the cases of those who took a 40% pay cut on relegation, which would have been reinstated if we got promoted again, have just seen millions in potential wages go up in smoke because of the actions of whoever was leading the spying. 

Hence they are now considering their own legal action against the club for loss of earnings, if the media reports are to be believed: 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/may/19/southampton-kicked-out-of-championship-playoff-final-docked-four-points-for-spying

What a sorry state of affairs

Could be the start of a while new line of litigation in football.

Maybe the club should sue the players that got us relegated for not performing and causing a loss of income for the club?

How about players suing the club because they were not been picked and thus preventing them staving the club from relegation causing a 40% loss of income at not fault of their own?

How about Will Still suing the club for loss of reputation due to our failure to sign the right players in the summer to help him win games?

[Hussar Saint]

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What wind? We broke the rules repeatedly. It was systemic. Reportedly they have text evidence where we tell analysts to go and do it. The club paid for analysts to stay at hotels whilst we did it. We had images joking about it and we tried to disguise analysts so we wouldn't be caught. It's a clear and repeated breaching of the rules to try to cheat and gain an advantage. I don't see how they reduce the penalty to be honest although I don't think it's fair to have the appeal the next day even if I understand why they've done it.

I think we’re all aware that rules were broken mate, but if you think that the punishment is in any way proportionate to the crime then you’re off your tits on acid!  

[SNSUN]

Just now, LGTL said:

One senior judge today is making the decision. Hopefully he’s a season ticket holder in the Kingsland. 

"I remember watching Ted Bates as a wee nipper" he croaked, before grabbing his ventilator.

 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's why they gave us a points deduction too. Kicked out for the Middlesbrough spying and points deduction for the other instances.

And that's why it feels unproportionate. Is a 4 point deduction in the league, the equivalent of being kicked out of a single £250m game? I'd suggest no. You can make up a 4 point deduction, it's a pain, it may harm you but you can try and make it back. But you can't make up an expulsion, this result doesn't just harm the club now - it harms it for many, many years to come financially.

We should have been fined for the build up to the playoff incident, quite a heavy amount, and ordered to pay compo to Boro with further staff sanctions. And then taken a point deduction on the chin for those incidents in the season. It would have still thrown Saturday into chaos with probably an interim coach in charge, but it would have been a neater outcome than all of this.

The 'kicked out' compared with -4 points, for the same event, feels too extreme - unless we did worse to Boro which we don't truly know about yet.

Edited 11 hours ago by S-Clarke

[Toussaint]

4 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

I still don’t think we’ll get reinstated, but I do think the EFL may end up regretting this decision. It sets a pretty serious precedent and, in my opinion, opens the door to further litigation and complications down the line.


Honestly, I just want the appeal finished and done with now so we can all stop checking SaintsWeb every three minutes and move on with our lives.

Agreed, they were under enormous pressure both from the media storm and the impending final, and seemed to have rushed into a decision they may have thought would be the line of least resistance without fully considering the consequences.  I see Boro get to but their tickets at 1pm! Such a mess.

[gio1saints]

First post for ages and the point may have previously been made before but : 

 

We get kicked out of the chance to win promotion for spying offences ( multiple) yet the punishment  for say, a Boro player simulating a foul in the penalty area in the last minute at SMS which means they win that game 2-1 via a cheated penalty and go to the final itself is….if caught, a yellow card. That’s it. Outcone of both types of cheating is the same - the punishment in a completely different scale.

If the equivalent of four points and potentially £200m lost revenue plus a staggering g loss of goodwill and reputational harm is appropriate for 3 cases of amateur spying then the EFL should revise the penalties for players cheating on the pitch - when it’s blatantly obvious that this is more likely to influence the result of any game. 
If Boro win and go up - then the next time Hackney falls over clutching his head from a fake punch Middlesborough should receive a massive fine and points deductions. Over and over again for each bit of on pitch cheating. 
 

That is not what will happen though. The pearl clutching do gooders who are crowing about how they abhor cheats will carry on - they abhor cheats as long as it’s off the pitch - ON THE PITCH - which is in fact gamesmanship is apparently not cheating not serious and wrist slap material. Double standards exposed by our punishment basically. 

[MarkSFC]

7 minutes ago, LGTL said:

One senior judge today is making the decision. Hopefully he’s a season ticket holder in the Kingsland. 

Probably a Skate fan...

[maxi_sopez]

To be honest they should scrap playoffs and just give the place to Milwall who came third. Easiest and fairest solution.

[The Wyvern]

7 minutes ago, LGTL said:

One senior judge today is making the decision. Hopefully he’s a season ticket holder in the Kingsland. 

Regular drinker in the Kingsland Tavern 🤞 

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, sotonjoe said:

This bit interesting from the BBC 6 days ago ....

 

"The EFL has asked for an expedited hearing to accommodate next Saturday's final while Southampton have argued they need time for an internal review."

 

So initial hearing was expedited against Southampton's request. Would presumably be something significant to lean into at appeal.

We have admitted to breaking the rules. 14 days makes no difference to our defence. The only thing we can go back with it the harsh penalty.

[saintant]

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

[Osvaldorama]

I’m still really struggling to come to terms with how stupid the club are. 

1) to spy for barely any meaningful gain

2) to then admit we’ve done it, and agree to push the hearings up as quickly as possible. 
 

I cannot comprehend how brain dead this is. 
 

If you’re going to cheat, at least do it well. Then if you get caught, you HAVE to deny & delay until after the final. 
 

This entire thing is just so dumb I can’t put it into words. 

[Saint Scott]

1 minute ago, maxi_sopez said:

To be honest they should scrap playoffs and just give the place to Milwall who came third. Easiest and fairest solution.

Hull would beg to differ

[S-Clarke]

Just now, saintant said:

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

Because they're incompetent. 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because they lost over two games and the cheating had no material effect to the result. It is ridiculous that you can lose but still win. The only reason they lost is down to their shortcomings on the pitch. 

You have no basis on which to say that. We were caught spying on their training sessions, it's laughable to try and claim we didn't benefit from it at all. Boro lost to cheaters and if this was the other way around, not one single Saints fan would be claiming we don't deserve to go to Wembley.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Apparently according to Talk Sport (I know, I know), the hearing yesterday wasn't undertaken by legal people - just an independent football commissioning panel who plucked some footballing sanctions out of the air, with zero legal thought. So today's appeal will have legal people around the table for the first time.

Absolutely no idea how this ends.

It's difficult to work out who are the most amateur here.... Us or the EFL.... What's the process for the EFL picking up sanctions for their incompetence too...? 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, saintant said:

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

Because their lawyers orncrisis management PR people have told them to. Extremely odd I think not to have even put out a holding statement yesterday acknowledging the charges and our intention to appeal.

[CylonKing]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

They've had to sack the intern who runs the website and socials and no one else knows how to do it?!

[egg]

7 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

I believe the EFL said at some point it was these guys. As I said above, I don’t believe the panel members from yesterday have been announced. I slightly assumed that the Chair would have been chairing the panel yesterday but he could be doing the appeal for all I know.

I read somewhere that Christopher Quinlan QC was yesterdays chair. Not sure how accurate that was though. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Which begs the question why didn't we reveal this at the hearing?

Because we thought it might have more impact as part of the appeal?

[Midfield_General]

20 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

If we get reinstated I'll buy everyone in here a pint. 

Mine's a pint of wine, in honour of our next manager 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

Much more interested in what James Corden thinks to be honest.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Bollocks.... Just come out of a work meeting and now I'm a further 4 pages behind... FFS!

Catching up slowly... But still 3 pages behind! 

[Chez]

 

 

4 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

then the next time Hackney falls over clutching his head from a fake punch Middlesborough should receive a massive fine and points deductions. Over and over again for each bit of on pitch cheating.  

When Pires dived and UEFA did fuck all, choosing not to punish retrospectively, on field cheating was effectively deemed 'OK'.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because they lost over two games and the cheating had no material effect to the result. It is ridiculous that you can lose but still win. The only reason they lost is down to their shortcomings on the pitch. 

Exactly. They lost to a team that had broken a rule off the pitch, but that had no influence on the outcome of the tie. So to say they were cheated out of a place in the final is erroneous. 

The wording here is interesting. If they had said that they had awarded a retrospective 3-0 win to Boro for the home leg then it might have made sense. But that's not what's been decided. The ruling is that Saints have been expelled from the playoffs altogether. Therefore it's factually incorrect to say that Boro have been 'reinstated', and there's probably a strong case to render all of the playoff results this far null and void and start again with Boro playing Hull and Millwall playing Wrexham.

They've shoe-horned Boro into the final to make sure their showpiece event still goes ahead, and it's highly likely to have opened a whole barrel of worms.

[CheshireSaint]

8 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

I still don’t think we’ll get reinstated, but I do think the EFL may end up regretting this decision. It sets a pretty serious precedent and, in my opinion, opens the door to further litigation and complications down the line.

The thing I find particularly interesting is the argument that the playoffs are considered a separate competition and therefore had to be dealt with differently. But if the first instance of spying dates back to December, surely that makes it a league-related offence rather than something isolated purely to the playoffs?

Maybe that’s clutching at straws at this point, but the whole thing feels messy whichever way you look at it.

Honestly, I just want the appeal finished and done with now so we can all stop checking SaintsWeb every three minutes and move on with our lives.

If this is a seperate competition, how can they include examples of other 'spying' during the league campaign to back up their case? If these ought to be included, then surely the playoffs can't be considered separately. It's cherry picking and needs to be called out. If these EFL rule contraventions go back to regular league games, then Wrexham have every right to contest Saints playoff place should be removed and their inclusion. They should have therefore, played Millwall whilst Hull would have played Boro in the semi's.

The EFL cannot highlight discrepancies during the league campaign without opening themselves to further claims. I hope Wrexham do challenge the Hull v Boro game and as such, the PL starts in earnest with only 19 teams included and this cock up is firmly placed at the EFL's door and their fag packet handling of the situation and their seeming submission to Gibbo.

[OldNick]

Ive been chatting to my Boro friend and he said something I havent seen elsewhere. He said both clubs are tainted as if Boro win it will always be said that they didnt really win, and only did so by being given the bye. He feels like me none have come out of this well.

[Midfield_General]

13 minutes ago, LGTL said:

One senior judge today is making the decision. Hopefully he’s a season ticket holder in the Kingsland. 

Just looked it up and apparently it's The Right Honorable Mr Justice Westwood. 

Anyone know if he's any good? 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Much more interested in what James Corden thinks to be honest.

he's too busy calculating how much of his annual salary he has to pay Ricky Gervais for stealing his jokes.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You have no basis on which to say that. We were caught spying on their training sessions, it's laughable to try and claim we didn't benefit from it at all. Boro lost to cheaters and if this was the other way around, not one single Saints fan would be claiming we don't deserve to go to Wembley.

Yep. We have no idea what we saw, and it couldn't be unseen. We may have seen their line up, shape, subtle tactical tweaks. If we had, we could have adjusted and gained an advantage. As it was, they may well have had to adjust, putting them at a disadvantage. 

Regardless, we didn't send the lad up there for a coffee and a day out. He went to get material to help us sew the tie up in the first leg, get to the final, and grab a £200m prize. The intent was massive . 

As you say, boot on the other foot and none us would be saying well done Boro, good luck against Hull. 

[Draino76]

I will not be giving up my hotel room. I'd rather it sits empty. 

[skintsaint]

[Midfield_General]

13 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

"I remember watching Ted Bates as a wee nipper" he croaked, before grabbing his ventilator.

 

'Ted were proper Bo, our Kes'

[Addict54]

13 minutes ago, saintant said:

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

I have to say that I thought the relative silence last week was strategic and reflective of us having a measure of control of events in the background. That was giving the club way too much credit. So now I think it’s simply because they have no idea what to do or say about anything. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Addict54

[trousers]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Two days ago, I for one thought AlexLaw and Lord Duckhunter on this thread were overreacting to the whole situation and scaremongering when they said we could get kicked out.

As I mentioned the other day, when coming up with a predicted outcome in a situation like this, it's always best to go for a realistic 'worst case scenario ', as it means you either get to play your "ner ner ner ner ner, told you so" card, or your "phew, glad I was proven wrong" card. You can't really lose when predicting the worst outcome... We should all try it sometime, rather than being so blimin' optimistic!

(Or, better still, go with what is known as the 'Glasgow' methodology and post different predicted outcomes but only quote yourself on the one that ended up happening... You get awarded an extra special medal for that one... ) 

Edited 10 hours ago by trousers

[Draino76]

2 minutes ago, Draino76 said:

I will not be giving up my hotel room. I'd rather it sits empty. 

But i want my booking fee back. 

[LegalEagle]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Anyone heard anything from Troy Deeney since the verdict? He must be as happy as a pig in shit.

On another note the silent routine from the club intrigues me. Anyone got a theory as to why they've not uttered a peep?

Yep - we’re in a legal process. They don’t want to accidentally say something that might be misconstrued and used against us. That’s distinctly possible when you realise how incompetent the club is at a senior level.

[DrSuess1979]

2 minutes ago, Draino76 said:

I will not be giving up my hotel room. I'd rather it sits empty. 

I thought the same regarding our pink parking space 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

If this is a seperate competition, how can they include examples of other 'spying' during the league campaign to back up their case? If these ought to be included, then surely the playoffs can't be considered separately. It's cherry picking and needs to be called out. If these EFL rule contraventions go back to regular league games, then Wrexham have every right to contest Saints playoff place should be removed and their inclusion. They should have therefore, played Millwall whilst Hull would have played Boro in the semi's.

The EFL cannot highlight discrepancies during the league campaign without opening themselves to further claims. I hope Wrexham do challenge the Hull v Boro game and as such, the PL starts in earnest with only 19 teams included and this cock up is firmly placed at the EFL's door and their fag packet handling of the situation and their seeming submission to Gibbo.

There may have been no penalty for the earlier breaches, but regard had to them in the penalty for the Boro indiscretion. 

[Weston Super Saint]

The Hokey Cokey play off final!

[CheshireSaint]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

There may have been no penalty for the earlier breaches, but regard had to them in the penalty for the Boro indiscretion. 

Cherry picking then?

[trousers]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Question for you trousers as you ae the expert on this

Why did PFC not get stripped of their FA Cup win after all of the charity robbing, tax dodging and failing players wages?

Makes our punishment a joke in comparison

Good question!

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, CheshireSaint said:

Cherry picking then?

FFS don't bring them into it as well, we've already got us, Hull, Boro and now Wrexham planning to sue!

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Good question!

 

[Osvaldorama]

11 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Exactly. They lost to a team that had broken a rule off the pitch, but that had no influence on the outcome of the tie. So to say they were cheated out of a place in the final is erroneous. 

The wording here is interesting. If they had said that they had awarded a retrospective 3-0 win to Boro for the home leg then it might have made sense. But that's not what's been decided. The ruling is that Saints have been expelled from the playoffs altogether. Therefore it's factually incorrect to say that Boro have been 'reinstated', and there's probably a strong case to render all of the playoff results this far null and void and start again with Boro playing Hull and Millwall playing Wrexham.

They've shoe-horned Boro into the final to make sure their showpiece event still goes ahead, and it's highly likely to have opened a whole barrel of worms.

Also,

If they treat the playoff as a separate competition, we have been thrown out for one alleged incident. 
 

It seems they have picked their punishment based on arbitrary dates.