Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

I find it extremely difficult to believe that Ben Garner (a former manager) was not aware. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

Thinking about it, do the earliest known start date of these "spying" incidents tie in with the arrival of Garner....? Not that I'm insinuating anything, of course.... 

 

6 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

He was appointed on 4th January this year. 

 

5 minutes ago, Scummer said:

A quick Google says he joined in January, so after Oxford

Fair enough... bin that particular theory then!

[SotonianWill]

The four points are annoying as well. Our backroom staff, manager, team will all be different. We’ll have started next season afresh, with the cheating put firmly into the year before’s folder. Yet we’re stuck with the four points hanging over us still into next year. 

[Cuddles]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

 

Fair enough... bin that particular theory then!

In that case we should garner support for him.

[Lighthouse]

34 minutes ago, saintant said:

You say we've forfeited a game but seem to forget we've been denied the opportunity to compete in said match that earns the winner north of 200 million quid but I guess that's a small thing. We'll also lose sponsors and find it harder to attract new ones.

I haven't forgotten anything. Competing in the playoff final is literally the prize for winning the semi final, you don't get to just go to the final because you want to. We forfeited the semi because we cheated, now we don't get to play in the final. It's really that simple. 

[Doctoroncall]

14 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

 

Fair enough... bin that particular theory then!

Balance of probabilities is that he knew about it but didn’t do anything about it. 

[Elmore Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Sheaf, most clubs do it - if not basically all clubs. Its not even a rule in any other major league and is common practice. Its not a big deal ffs. Step outside of the media narrative. On this one occasion, we've been setup specifically by the whistle-blower and Boro, and then rinsed in the court of public opinion in an orchestrated media frenzy / witchhunt. The punishment is extreme, a potential (slow) club killer. Yes we were a little bit naughty, but more importantly we were spectacularly stupid and our handling of it was beyond incompetent to boot.

Saints (fans/media/club) need to stop the self flagellation/prostrating ASAP. Blackmore more than anyone else. I love his passion for the club, but he's hurting us every time he goes on air to give lip service to the establish boro narrative calling us morally repugnant etc. That is not going to help us. There is blood in the water, every club and the media all see it - and being weak now is the wrong course of action. There is a narrow window where we can mitigate the impacts of this and try to rebuild effectively for next season. It is time to close ranks, shut out the noise, and sort ourselves out. Take steps to repair the damage with the fans, the staff, and the players - and forget everything outside the club. The world will move on - spurs/west ham relegation, the CL final, the world cup, new city manager, 115 charges etc... This summer and next season is what matters to saints... Repeatedly going on air and giving oxygen to the idea that we're morally repugnant because we sent a kid with an iphone to a few training sessions is just furthering Parsons' self harm mantra. 

100% This.

The punishment handed down was outrageously harsh - but what's done is done.
Time to circle the wagons, take our medicine, have a sort out in the club and, most importantly, come out fighting. 

And that's on everyone - us fans included. Too many wet wipes showing up on here and the media Vox-pops for my liking.

If we don't get some backbone, and soon - we just saddle ourselves with a guilt complex that will linger for years, creating generations of apologists as fans.

Be real - every club would take any advantage if offered (if they knew they could get away with it). We just went at it with usual SR-inspired amateurishness - and got found out / stitched-up - then didn't have the minerals to punch back at Gibbo and got put to the lions by his media operation.

Fuck 'em.
COYS!

[TheSoundman]

I wonder if this is focusing the Barnsley hierarchy's minds.

TE was an analyst there, then came to Saints thinking it was ok to spy on other teams and that there wasn't any rules to the contrary.

Sounds like he thought it was standard practise. Sounds like he did it at Barnsley too.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, TheSoundman said:

I wonder if this is focusing the Barnsley hierarchy's minds.

TE was an analyst there, then came to Saints thinking it was ok to spy on other teams and that there wasn't any rules to the contrary.

Sounds like he thought it was standard practise. Sounds like he did it at Barnsley too.

Barnsley enjoyed their best spell in years at the time.

[warsash saint]

59 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is a great post. Sums it up perfectly, I too have the feeling Boro have played a dirty trick here to give themselves two shots at Wembley. Not saying what we did was ok, because how we laid this all on a plate for them is so fricking embarrassing and heads should roll for that alone.

But please, for the fairness in everything, Hull need to beat Boro - and those games against Boro next season are going to be seriously tasty.

Certainly not looking forward to the police 'bubble' all the way to the Riverside next season!!

[ChrisPY]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Barnsley enjoyed their best spell in years at the time.

Under manager Gerhard Struber, who managed Bristol City to a 3-1 victory over us this season.

[sadoldgit]

29 minutes ago, Big M said:

I really think people don't realize how bad this is for us squad wise. Every decent player we have will be on their way, for one the potential loss of earnings but more importantly they're not going to want all the crap that will be thrown at them week in week out playing for a cheating club. You can kid yourselves that it's a minor indiscretion but that matters not.

Tonda and his staff will be sacked, sports republic will try and get top dollar for our good players and the not so good will go on the cheap. 

We'll end up with a cheap foreign manager and a squad of loans or journey men on lesser wages, that's what will happen after the world Cup. The club has now effectively been ruined by individuals with the fucking brains of cauliflower. 

Worst case scenario yes, but the players are under contract and can’t just walk. There may be some who want to stay and go for it again next season too?

[Mt.B-Real]

I sincerely hope there are some resignations or sackings announced by the end of today.

Parsons, Spors, Tonda and anyone else who knew anything about this need to leave immediately.

I'm amazed we've not heard anything already.

[sadoldgit]

2 minutes ago, ChrisPY said:

Under manager Gerhard Struber, who managed Bristol City to a 3-1 victory over us this season.

And are we to believe that a junior analyst watching a team 72 hours before a match has a greater effect on match planning than watching as many of the opposition’s matches as you like on video?

[John Boy Saint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

As have Middlesbrough.  This Taylor fellow is the key to this affair.  Joins us from Middlesbrough and leaves two months later. Then produces the evidence that scuppers our case. Doesn't attention the hearing in person, only submits 'written evidence'.

Stinks like a Teesside kipper.

All the more reason to factor him into the plan to go spying on them, if we knew we were playing with fire, be aware of people who have joined us from them and then left after short time. 
You can guess someone assumed  a £2m fine would be acceptable against the possible much large gain - fotgetting who they were playing with in the EFL.

[Sarcoidevo]

7 minutes ago, Mt.B-Real said:

I sincerely hope there are some resignations or sackings announced by the end of today.

Parsons, Spors, Tonda and anyone else who knew anything about this need to leave immediately.

I'm amazed we've not heard anything already.

I actually hope they all are made to stay and forced to work their fkn arses off to get us back in contention .... rather than just abandon ship ..... they made this mess so they can clean it up and get us out of it

Edited 2 hours ago by Sarcoidevo

[TheSoundman]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

And are we to believe that a junior analyst watching a team 72 hours before a match has a greater effect on match planning than watching as many of the opposition’s matches as you like on video?

The EFL would have you believe that, yes.

Weird isn't it.

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, Mt.B-Real said:

I sincerely hope there are some resignations or sackings announced by the end of today.

Parsons, Spors, Tonda and anyone else who knew anything about this need to leave immediately.

I'm amazed we've not heard anything already.

If Dragan has any nous he will take some time and some soundings from others as to the best way to deal with the fall out. I expect there are meetings going on all day and he will want to get the reaction from the players. Do they want him gone or do they back him?

[TheSoundman]

3 minutes ago, Sarcoidevo said:

I actually hope they all are made to stay and forced to work their fkn arses off to get us back in contention .... rather than juat abandon ship ..... they made this mess so they can clean it up and get us out of it

They won't get the chance.

The FA are really good at flexing their muscles against clubs that can't bite back as well. They'll just take 6 weeks to reach their well considered conclusion to fuck us over a little more.

We can't even plan ahead unless we act decisively and clear the decks right now..

Edited 2 hours ago by TheSoundman

[Mt.B-Real]

Tonda and Spors will surely be banned by FA. Now we're proven guilty the logical step is to hit them with disrepute charges.

As for Parsons. He's so clearly out of his depth, he should realise that by now.

They should all resign out of principle. They've have brought great shame on our club with their own incompetence and stupidity.

Our reputation is in tatters and will remain so as long as these clowns and everyone else associated with it are still employed by the club.

There's no option for them to stay.

[beatlesaint]

The only thing Southampton have done correctly is they have kept this lad Salt's name out of the public glare. The fact his picture and name are out there is 100% down to Middleborough and their forwarding the evidence to every media outlet they could possible think of.

His name and likeness should only have been for the ears and eyes of the disiplinary panel.

I keep reading about this duty of care stuff. Boro dont give a flying fuck about that. I hope they get sanctioned for that alone.

 

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If Dragan has any nous he will take some time and some soundings from others as to the best way to deal with the fall out. I expect there are meetings going on all day and he will want to get the reaction from the players. Do they want him gone or do they back him?

Trouble is, he's continually relied on the group of half wits that run SR. If this doesn't set alarm bells ringing nothing will. Time for him to get in an experienced football man who is given carte blanche to oversee all aspects at the club and answers to nobody but Dragan.

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

The only thing Southampton have done correctly is they have kept this lad Salt's name out of the public glare. The fact his picture and name are out there is 100% down to Middleborough and their forwarding the evidence to every media outlet they could possible think of.

His name and likeness should only have been for the ears and eyes of the disiplinary panel.

I keep reading about this duty of care stuff. Boro dont give a flying fuck about that. I hope they get sanctioned for that alone.

 

You can do anything and no one will challenge when you have a lot of money and on the EFL board. Don't think anyone but Saints or Saints fans have questioned Boro’s behaviour in this spygate. Boro now seen as the hero of football by getting Saints out of final as cheats. So Boro are on EFL/FA pedestal. 

[whiteleySaint30]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If Dragan has any nous he will take some time and some soundings from others as to the best way to deal with the fall out. I expect there are meetings going on all day and he will want to get the reaction from the players. Do they want him gone or do they back him?

Are you fucking joking. How can we go forward with these cheats? Anyone implicated in this needs to go immediately so we can start the long and arduous road to recovery to try and rebuild our shattered reputation and club. 

I think it's disgusting heads haven't rolled already - I expect that's because the knowledge that we were spying runs deep within the club. 

[Doctoroncall]

7 minutes ago, TheSoundman said:

They won't get the chance.

The FA are really good at flexing their muscles against clubs that can't bite back as well. They'll just take 6 weeks to reach their well considered conclusion to fuck us over a little more.

We can't even plan ahead unless we act decisively and clear the decks right now..

Plus it’s not like they’re going on a PIP! 
 

I certainly wouldn’t trust Parsons establishing the right governance structure in the club. 
 

It’s gonna be a big call on who comes in to lift the staff, set high standards, create a togetherness culture and build a football management team to challenge for promotion. 

[sadoldgit]

2 minutes ago, whiteleySaint30 said:

Are you fucking joking. How can we go forward with these cheats? Anyone implicated in this needs to go immediately so we can start the long and arduous road to recovery to try and rebuild our shattered reputation and club. 

I think it's disgusting heads haven't rolled already - I expect that's because the knowledge that we were spying runs deep within the club. 

So do you throw everyone who cheats out of football? I doubt if there would be many left. When you hear senior pros saying that it isn’t that big a deal it should give some perspective.

[badgerx16]

We haven't "lost" Peretz, his loan has ended.

[Graffito]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

Trouble is, he's continually relied on the group of half wits that run SR. If this doesn't set alarm bells ringing nothing will. Time for him to get in an experienced football man who is given carte blanche to oversee all aspects at the club and answers to nobody but Dragan.

If this debacle has taught the club anything, it’s that nobody should be given carte blanche. Checks, balances, accountability. Above all and fundamentally, adherence to the rules the club signs up to as a member of the EFL.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

Well, its soaked in over night and now I feel calmer😂

My (less emotional) observations and thoughts about this whole situation and the actions ahead (fwiw) are this.

Eckert smd all those involved are either outright cheats at worst or totally naive and guilty of ignorance and a lack of fully understanding the scope and rules of his role and football in this country. 

His time at Barnsley reduce this mitigation of not knowing the rules significantly, and there also meams that his boss has some culpability in not ensuring he knew a rule that is important. 

Internal Actions on personnel.

Sack Spors for lack of control and for lack of ensuring his direct employee knew his job amd the rules. 

Sanction Eckert severely (final written warning if you like) if they truly believe he was unaware. Sack him immediately if they believe he deliberately broke the rules.

Sack anyone else who was aware they or others were cheating.

Having said that I find it very very difficult to believe that no one in the first team staff were unaware of the spying and also unaware of the rules. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Ben Garner (a former manager) was not aware. 

Moving forward, clear the decks of all those culpable. 

Employ a new manager and coaching team as quickly as possible. 

Secure the services of as many players as possible before the World Cup. This tournament always delays transfer business. 

I suspect though that these players will leave/not be signed;

Peretz, Ramsdale, THB, Jander, Charles, Leo, Larin, and Azaz

Others who knows. 

The club needs to provide the fans with as much goodwill and monetary pay back as it is possible to do. 

This should include at minimum

- a discount for ST renewers 

- refunds for play-off tickets and travel costs to Boro away game

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any away game based on number

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any home game based on number

These actions will take time to figure out and to action but should be of high priority.

Dragon needs to remove Phil Parsons. He is ultimately responsible for the business as a whole on a day to day basis. Unwittingly perhaps he has been caught out by a employee (or group of employees) but also it seems acted poorly when faced with the situation and information. CEO positions come with high reward and also high responsibily. Also, there will be many people more capable out there. 

A fresh CEO, a fresh DoF, a fresh First Team Manager (and staff) is clearly a huge change all in a matter of weeks and summer break but I think this is the only way we can be seen to be taking this very seriously indeed and resetting the culture. 

Who knows who these people could be but I would go for 

DoF......Roy Hodgson (for a year or so)

Manager....Scott Parker

The summer will be very interesting (as it seems it always is recently) and at least we have the World Cup to distract us😂

 

Keep the faith. I love this club and always will even when things go very badly wrong!!

 

I cant believe fans think they should have refunds on games they've attended. We attended the games and received the entertainment expected. The club will be under extreme financial pressure and cant afford freebies. As for Scott Parker pleaaaaaaaase!!!

[freshen up]

Wonder if/when we'll start to see sponsors pulling out.

[James G]

16 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

So do you throw everyone who cheats out of football? I doubt if there would be many left. When you hear senior pros saying that it isn’t that big a deal it should give some perspective.

I think all teams have cheated in some way at some point. Even Boro themselves, over 100 years ago they had another Gibbo and they were involved in all sorts of nonsense, match fixing, stealing money, tax dodging. Far worse stuff than this

There are no saints in football 

[Saint Scott]

Southampton Football Club has today begun the process of issuing full refunds for all tickets and official travel bought by fans for the SkyBet EFL Championship Play-Off Final, as well as all booking fees.

 

Refunds will be returned to original method of payment. Due to the volume and following advice from our ticket provider, we understand that refunds should be in fans’ accounts within 10-14 working days.

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

41 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If Dragan has any nous he will take some time and some soundings from others as to the best way to deal with the fall out. I expect there are meetings going on all day and he will want to get the reaction from the players. Do they want him gone or do they back him?

Tonda should stay

[macca155]

10 to 14 days are they having a laugh

[Pengi]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7295741/2026/05/21/spygate-southampton-middlesbrough-legal-questions/?source=user_shared_article
from the Athletic 

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, Graffito said:

If this debacle has taught the club anything, it’s that nobody should be given carte blanche. Checks, balances, accountability. Above all and fundamentally, adherence to the rules the club signs up to as a member of the EFL.

Which is why you get in an experienced football man and preferably an English one.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Pengi said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7295741/2026/05/21/spygate-southampton-middlesbrough-legal-questions/?source=user_shared_article
from the Athletic 

Behind a paywall.

[tdmickey3]

Refunds is 10 to 14 working days  🤣

Take it in 2 minutes and give it back in 10-14, banking system is joke

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

Well, its soaked in over night and now I feel calmer😂

My (less emotional) observations and thoughts about this whole situation and the actions ahead (fwiw) are this.

Eckert smd all those involved are either outright cheats at worst or totally naive and guilty of ignorance and a lack of fully understanding the scope and rules of his role and football in this country. 

His time at Barnsley reduce this mitigation of not knowing the rules significantly, and there also meams that his boss has some culpability in not ensuring he knew a rule that is important. 

Internal Actions on personnel.

Sack Spors for lack of control and for lack of ensuring his direct employee knew his job amd the rules. 

Sanction Eckert severely (final written warning if you like) if they truly believe he was unaware. Sack him immediately if they believe he deliberately broke the rules.

Sack anyone else who was aware they or others were cheating.

Having said that I find it very very difficult to believe that no one in the first team staff were unaware of the spying and also unaware of the rules. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Ben Garner (a former manager) was not aware. 

Moving forward, clear the decks of all those culpable. 

Employ a new manager and coaching team as quickly as possible. 

Secure the services of as many players as possible before the World Cup. This tournament always delays transfer business. 

I suspect though that these players will leave/not be signed;

Peretz, Ramsdale, THB, Jander, Charles, Leo, Larin, and Azaz

Others who knows. 

The club needs to provide the fans with as much goodwill and monetary pay back as it is possible to do. 

This should include at minimum

- a discount for ST renewers 

- refunds for play-off tickets and travel costs to Boro away game

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any away game based on number

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any home game based on number

These actions will take time to figure out and to action but should be of high priority.

Dragon needs to remove Phil Parsons. He is ultimately responsible for the business as a whole on a day to day basis. Unwittingly perhaps he has been caught out by a employee (or group of employees) but also it seems acted poorly when faced with the situation and information. CEO positions come with high reward and also high responsibily. Also, there will be many people more capable out there. 

A fresh CEO, a fresh DoF, a fresh First Team Manager (and staff) is clearly a huge change all in a matter of weeks and summer break but I think this is the only way we can be seen to be taking this very seriously indeed and resetting the culture. 

Who knows who these people could be but I would go for 

DoF......Roy Hodgson (for a year or so)

Manager....Scott Parker

The summer will be very interesting (as it seems it always is recently) and at least we have the World Cup to distract us😂

 

Keep the faith. I love this club and always will even when things go very badly wrong!!

 

Why detonate the club entirely over what is in reality a common place occurrence in the world of football, and for which (in this case) we were set up for, and which we've been trialled in a kangaroo court.

The damage has been done to saints regardless of whether we get rid of Eckert and Spors - but our chances of having a good summer transfer window will be a hell of a lot worse without spors, ditto our chances of hiring a good new manager. And similarly, the only reason we were even in the playoffs is because of Eckert and 20 game unbeaten run in the league.

The FA may ban Eckert, the players may not want to play for him after this... But the whole league will be desperate for us to sack the best manager in the league for only one reason - because it means we are weaker and will take us out of the picture - What Guan has said on this is absolutely spot on.

If we can keep him employed and conduct a reasonable disciplinary process, it should be considered. It is not the time to detonate the entire club because emotions are still raw and the media are saying hurty words.

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint86

[Pengi]

Try this

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7295741/2026/05/21/spygate-southampton-middlesbrough-legal-questions/?source=user_shared_article&unlocked_article_code=1.kFA.PPXn.WRV2rcOnCJL-

[vectraman]

Main shirt sponsors have a fab new opportunity…

[Dragon_man]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Sheaf, most clubs do it - if not basically all clubs. 

I've heard this said many times, but I don't see any evidence or whistleblowers. If there were either then surely the lwayers would have used this to get a more lenient punishment and/or drag others into the mess that it is.

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

And it could be argued that Hull are there through their previous financial irregularities...?

I think you'd be hard pressed to do that,  they've not been able to spend any money on transfers for over 12 months? 

[Mk1J]

24 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I cant believe fans think they should have refunds on games they've attended. We attended the games and received the entertainment expected. The club will be under extreme financial pressure and cant afford freebies. As for Scott Parker pleaaaaaaaase!!!

EFL should be refunding the playoff semifinal tickets not the club. If they knew throwing us out of the playoffs was an option they should have stopped the games taking place until it was resolved. 

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, vectraman said:

Main shirt sponsors have a fab new opportunity…

We were peeping in the 60s, peeping in the 70s, peeping in the 80s and peeped all the way through the 90s.

[Sheaf Saint]

42 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

We haven't "lost" Peretz, his loan has ended.

We've "lost" the opportunity to sign him permanently would be a better way of putting it.

[benjii]

39 minutes ago, Graffito said:

If this debacle has taught the club anything, it’s that nobody should be given carte blanche. Checks, balances, accountability. Above all and fundamentally, adherence to the rules the club signs up to as a member of the EFL.

Pretty basic stuff!

[John B]

41 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

So do you throw everyone who cheats out of football? I doubt if there would be many left. When you hear senior pros saying that it isn’t that big a deal it should give some perspective.

Totally agree it was cheating and the punishment was correct in the circumstances as we were trying to cheat to get to the PL but there is a chance Tonda did not know of its existence and only applies to the EFL

Most people in football seem to think that the information being collected will make little difference to the outcome of the games involved

[Thripp87]

I can’t believe people still want Tonda to stay, and some even want Parsons to stay? To move on from this it needs a complete reset. They have literally brought the club into disrepute through complete stupidity. They have single-handedly given me the worst feeling I’ve had in football in almost 40 years. Besides this the FA will take that matter out of our hands.

People seem worried we won’t replace Tonda. It does not need to be a generational reset, the vast majority of players who leave would have left if we lost to Hull regardless. We will still have a competitive side next season.

The footballing world will soon move on from this shit storm, starting next weekend when Boro steal promotion and Hull become the story, Sunday we will see Spurs or West Ham in the same league as us. England will fuck up the World Cup in less than 6 weeks, people need to realise this is fish and paper next week to the footballing world. We have every opportunity to re build and go again and we will still be a decent option for good players because we can still offer more money than our competitors in this league. Sponsors will soon come back, again, we can still pay for them and money talks. 
I know it doesn’t seem like it now but we will win more games than we lose next season, there will be laughs next season too. People will hammer Boro when they get smashed every week next season if they go up, rightly pointing out they shouldn’t be there.

The club can re build, but it needs to with a complete reset. 
It also needs to offer fans more than a 10-14 day refund on play off final tickets.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Thripp87

[do i not like fizzy pop]

1 hour ago, TheSoundman said:

They won't get the chance.

The FA are really good at flexing their muscles against clubs that can't bite back as well. They'll just take 6 weeks to reach their well considered conclusion to fuck us over a little more.

We can't even plan ahead unless we act decisively and clear the decks right now..

Yep, they'll be like the platoon sent out to bayonet the twitching corpses on the battlefield, going through their pockets and stealing watches.

[Harold K Steptoe]

Wouldn’t surprise me if there was a mole in our own coaching staff. They’re not all on big money and a little word to someone for a nice little earner. I’ve never trusted anybody in business so wouldn’t put it past someone.