Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Kenilworthy1959]

Just now, Mboto Gorge said:

I wonder what Gibson would do, if he was the Hull owner? That should be reason enough for them to go all guns blazing at this 

Hull should really go all out now saying its not fair. So they will have prepared the ground for legal action should they lose.

[Window Cleaner]

7 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

It’s almost as if our owners are totally incompetent fools isn’t it? Wish this would have become apparent sooner…….

Not the owners perhaps, just the senior club personnel. Anyway Ekert doesn't run the team all by himself, he's head coach and that's all. There is a team of analysts, assistants et al. If watching other team's training is ok why did the Salt idiot wear an Eastleigh shell suit.

Our excuses are just that, they knew it was illicit activity and did it anyway. Unfortunately they sent a minion to do the job. If he thought it legal why hide behind a tree, just march up to the fence and stream away.I mean in sports analyst courses at some tech college that calls itself a university, they probably explain the rules no?

If the top notch KC couldn't get us off the hook it's probably because we hadn't a leg to stand on.

Time to move on. 

Keep Ekert, did a good job. Sack the idiots that didn't.

[Killers Knee]

When we play Boro next season we better have James Bond themes playing all build up, and to feck with financial fairplay rules, we can use lawyers to make our penalty proportional to the nothing Man City will get.

[RedArmy]

40 minutes ago, Dman said:

Do we have a new best case scenario here... 

Boro win, get all excited and then Hull get it reversed on a technicality 😂

No thanks 

 

I’d rather see them removed from the final at the latest possible moment. 

Edited 7 hours ago by RedArmy

[SaintsLoyal]

23 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Pretty damning line for Saints on the compliance/admin front in the newest Guardian article:

Eckert, who is battling to hold on to his job amid a Football Association investigation into the conduct of individuals at the club, has argued he did not realise what he did was against the EFL’s statutes.

Southampton gave a detailed briefing in pre-season to Eckert’s predecessor, Will Still, explaining the competition’s rules. They did not do the same for Eckert after he replaced Still in early November.

--

How is a club secretary/compliance manager/other admin staff member not taking a rookie manager through the requirements of his role and the requirements of the competitions he will be leading the team in? 

 

He shouldnt have to be told that spying around other clubs training isnt allowed !  

His 'i didnt know' line is a joke and what was being said by other staff ? Why didnt anyone tell him straightaway ? Including the youngster dressing up, Playing dumb, has made him look even worse.

[davefizzy14]

17 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Yes, we missed the opportunity yo play in the final but it's not too late to screw the EFL for all they're worth. As I see it, we've been swindled out of a chance of premier league football and we need to make them pay. I see the FA are making their own investigations. They're seriously concerned about what we'll uncover if we do some proper digging. That this type of scouting is rife? That Boro unfairly influenced an 'independent' panel? We should be able to uncover a whole can of worms.

Hopefully we are laying the groundwork in place here to gather enough evidence for this. I wonder whether Pannick can have a big say on this if we are still seeking legal advice? 

[Badger]

17 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Yes, we missed the opportunity yo play in the final but it's not too late to screw the EFL for all they're worth. As I see it, we've been swindled out of a chance of premier league football and we need to make them pay. I see the FA are making their own investigations. They're seriously concerned about what we'll uncover if we do some proper digging. That this type of scouting is rife? That Boro unfairly influenced an 'independent' panel? We should be able to uncover a whole can of worms.

Alternatively we could spend millions pursuing an action for it to come to nothing. Whilst I agree with you that there is a lot that is unsatisfactory we could be chasing shadows. 
 

What would a few million be better spent on next season, a CF and GK or a legal team of KC’s ? 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

And yes this is complete conjecture, but I understood that when this all blew up, young Mr Salt felt like he'd been hung out to dry. His LinkedIn page was deleted which suggests SFC wanted to distance themselves from him. What? I'd be doing the exact opposite. Bring him in closer to the fold. Find out exactly what he's been doing as a junior analyst for the last few months. Who's been advising him and telling him what to do?

Does anyone remember the intern that Ashley Cole shot with his pop pop? It made news for a day or two then you never heard of it again. I wonder why. Depending on what Mr Salt says, his financial security could be helped or he could even be introduced to people who would be willing to pay for his story!

[Lord Duckhunter]

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought. Of course everyone could be involved in an activity that doesn’t benefit them 🤣🤣
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[St. Ciervo]

No news of anyone being fired - Day 1... 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought.
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

That's a pretty high horse you're sat on - certainly not a pony. Lots of half truths as well to make your point.

[beatlesaint]

9 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

 

He shouldnt have to be told that spying around other clubs training isnt allowed !  
 

Yes but this is back to that ridiculous gray area where you can do it 73 hours before a game but not 71 hours before. 
 

Absolutely crazy

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

That's a pretty high horse you're sat on - certainly not a pony. Lots of half truths as well to make your point.

I rarely agree with Duck but he's the voice of reason here. Which half truth in particular do you take issue with?

[saintant]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

I rarely agree with Duck but he's the voice of reason here. Which half truth in particular do you take issue with?

There's a couple of big ones there if you read what he says.

[Window Cleaner]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

Alternatively we could spend millions pursuing an action for it to come to nothing. Whilst I agree with you that there is a lot that is unsatisfactory we could be chasing shadows. 
 

What would a few million be better spent on next season, a CF and GK or a legal team of KC’s ? 

Anyway rule 104 seems to say, that's it and no further action of any kind allowed.

Rules are a bugger aren't they.

However the FA will be on our case, bringing the game into disrepute probably. Might even get some League 1 away days .

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I rarely agree with Duck but he's the voice of reason here. Which half truth in particular do you take issue with?

I take issue with his “every single game” assumption. Unless he’s aware of the set up of every teams training facilities many would not be visible to anyone to spy.

[Mboto Gorge]

I think we all know we fucked up, and we have a clueless weak hierarchy who got owned by Boro and Gibson. We also all know that we probably spied on every team we possibly could, where it was logistically possible. That still doesn’t make the punishment and the very Boro influenced hearing at all reasonable or proportionate though. That’s what stinks, their undue influence on it, solely to further their own gain. If we’d lost to them, they wouldn’t give a shit I expect. 

[LegalEagle]

Unless we’re going to sue the EFL in the High Court it’s time to put this behind us. We need to deal with the FA by handing over those to blame and let the FA do what they need to do, we make good noises about lots of internal training and promise it will never happen again. And sack those responsible tomorrow whilst the boss is here.
 

At the same time the club needs to look for the new manager immediately and sit down with each player and find out who wants to stay and who wants to go. Those who want to go need to be sold asap. In the meantime we can sit down with people like Lallana and Romeu and look where the gaps are in the squad that need filling and start drawing up a list of targets.

Just do some shit. Don’t do any more navel gazing. We’ve done that for 24 hours. That’s more than enough. Action time.

[maysie]

 

[die Mannyschaft]

On spying reconnaissance training just in case Boro train here.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by die Mannyschaft

[madge]

Isn’t a Middlesbrough director on the senior board at the EFL ?? That’s surely a conflict of interest and no doubt has the ears of his fellow EFL loons

[Dman]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought. Of course everyone could be involved in an activity that doesn’t benefit them 🤣🤣
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

My personal view, which I have remained consistent with since the news broke was;

You clearly get an advantage, we wouldn't have done it otherwise. However, I don't think think the advantage is all that significant. Its a 1% gain which you see all over football in different shapes and forms. For me, diving is worse, this is on par with timewasting - I feel that strongly about how insignficant it is. 

It was obvious from the get go that;

1. we'd done it before, we would have been at this all season - without a doubt.

2. Senior figures (i.e Tonda and Spors) would have known about it. 

3. It wont just be us. This will be common practice for clubs with manager from the continent.

Whilst it is technically correct, 'cheating' feels harsh. Gamesmanship is more appropriate. 

Quote

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 

He saw an opportunity to either get some ££ or get a free shot at the PL. It worked. 

People arguing he done it for sporting integrity are absolute idiots. It always was and will be for the money. 

Quote

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

it wont be pretty reading, but again, it doesn't take away from the fact its a minor crime in the grand scheme of things. 

 

All that being said, as yesterday progressed, I came to the realisation that the EFL had no alternative option but to kick us out. It was proven we'd broken the rules and unless they implemented a ridiculous fine, there was no alternative deterent. 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, madge said:

Isn’t a Middlesbrough director on the senior board at the EFL ?? That’s surely a conflict of interest and no doubt has the ears of his fellow EFL loons

It was an independent commission, and Saints basically plead guilty to every charge in front of them.

[CamSaint]

6 minutes ago, maysie said:

 

As the ‘spy’ got caught and deleted the footage there wasn’t any info available to influence the tactics!

[Dman]

10 minutes ago, maysie said:

 

Sorry but the first point is rubbish. He knew the rules. 

Even if he didn't, someone would have told him - you shouldn't do that. 

Just own it. Argue your case that its a bollox rule and is applied nowhere but the EFL, but don't lie. 

 

Second point. 

Why do it then? Its a weak arguement. 

[trousers]

24 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought. Of course everyone could be involved in an activity that doesn’t benefit them 🤣🤣
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

New bingo card for Trousers please! 😉

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

As the ‘spy’ got caught and deleted the footage there wasn’t any info available to influence the tactics!

Doesn't matter though. Its still a rule breach. 

If you hit someone drink driving, you wouldn't get a lesser sentance because you said sorry. 

(extreme example, but you know what I mean). 

 

but to be fair - to counter that - if you stole a mars bar and gave it back, unless the copper was a right arsehole, they'd take your name and slap on the wrists... Fuck the EFL! 

Edited 7 hours ago by Dman

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Must be a record thread - about to hit one million views after less than 2 weeks

[BarberSaint]

28 minutes ago, Badger said:

Alternatively we could spend millions pursuing an action for it to come to nothing. Whilst I agree with you that there is a lot that is unsatisfactory we could be chasing shadows. 
 

What would a few million be better spent on next season, a CF and GK or a legal team of KC’s ? 

Up to 22 million (cost of a downer and a crisp packet) the money's better spent spunking it up a wall.

[trousers]

[tdmickey3]

39 minutes ago, saintant said:

That's a pretty high horse you're sat on - certainly not a pony. Lots of half truths as well to make your point.

He calls people out for " pony" but in truth he posts a fair amount on here himself as you have pointed out 

Edited 7 hours ago by tdmickey3

[sadoldgit]

Just reflecting on how ludicrous this particular rule is along with how it played out.

Scout the opposition 72 hours  five minutes before a match, fine. Do so five minutes later and the same activity is becomes spying.

All clubs have access to videos of every game that their opposition play.

If Middlesbrough go up this season, every team that they play in the league will able to go and spy on them any time they want with no repercussion

It sounds like no other league in the world sees fit to have a similar rule, including the English Premier League.

If it such a heinous crime, why didn’t the EFL make it perfectly clear that breaking this particular rule could result in the most serious sanctions ever given to a football club?

There is absolutely no precedent for expulsion of a football club from the final of a competition for being in breach of such a rule.

Waving a pretend red card in order to get another player sent off is seen as cheating. Sending out press releases putting pressure on an independent panel to not only find a club guilty, but to get them kicked out of a competition for being in breach of this particular law, knock yourselves out.

You have a rule that gives the accused 14 days to respond to the charges but fold when the accuser puts pressure on to hold the case earlier.

A precedent has been set in response to cheating. Seeking to gain an advantage by breaking rules now gives clubs the opportunity to progress in a competition if they get beaten by using any form of cheating as a reason to award the game to them. For example, diving to win a penalty ticks all of the boxes in Steve Gibson’s higher morality check list.

I’m sure I could think of more, but the dog needs feeding. 

What a crock of shit.
 

 

[Number9]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

[sadoldgit]

25 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I rarely agree with Duck but he's the voice of reason here. Which half truth in particular do you take issue with?

The first time ever the words “Duck” and “the voice of reason” have been used in the same sentence.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

Don’t blame him really. He had a brilliant second half to the season, has played for England, and is still very young for a CB. He also likely expects the manager will soon be gone and who knows how many other players and staff will want out to distance themselves from the club. I’d imagine he’ll have plenty of clubs looking at him.

[LegalEagle]

3 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

Why would he at this time? He is on my list of those going. 

[tdmickey3]

We had an independent commission investigation apparently but the real trial was done in the media suggesting we should be chucked out and it has most definitely influenced the decision.  

Its like saying something to a jury and then the judge saying "disregard that comment " It's been heard so its in the heads.

The same has happened in this case and repeated over and over by the media from smoggie rags, national rags, BBC, sky etc and got in everyones heads.

If this had not happened the punishment would not have been so ridiculously harsh.

That said we should have been all over the media as well  trying to influence it all

Edited 7 hours ago by tdmickey3

[tdmickey3]

8 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

Do you blame him

[sfc4prem]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Just reflecting on how ludicrous this particular rule is along with how it played out.

Scout the opposition 72 hours  five minutes before a match, fine. Do so five minutes later and the same activity is becomes spying.

All clubs have access to videos of every game that their opposition play.

If Middlesbrough go up this season, every team that they play in the league will able to go and spy on them any time they want with no repercussion

It sounds like no other league in the world sees fit to have a similar rule, including the English Premier League.

If it such a heinous crime, why didn’t the EFL make it perfectly clear that breaking this particular rule could result in the most serious sanctions ever given to a football club?

There is absolutely no precedent for expulsion of a football club from the final of a competition for being in breach of such a rule.

Waving a pretend red card in order to get another player sent off is seen as cheating. Sending out press releases putting pressure on an independent panel to not only find a club guilty, but to get them kicked out of a competition for being in breach of this particular law, knock yourselves out.

You have a rule that gives the accused 14 days to respond to the charges but fold when the accuser puts pressure on to hold the case earlier.

A precedent has been set in response to cheating. Seeking to gain an advantage by breaking rules now gives clubs the opportunity to progress in a competition if they get beaten by using any form of cheating as a reason to award the game to them. For example, diving to win a penalty ticks all of the boxes in Steve Gibson’s higher morality check list.

I’m sure I could think of more, but the dog needs feeding. 

What a crock of shit.
 

 

As any teacher knows, it is not about the severity of the punishment, rather the certainty of there being a sanction.

Surely most rules should come with a consequent and pre-informed sanction?

[S-Clarke]

I've noticed the Boro fans starting to go after the Hull fans because they're whining about the decision.

My biggest hope out of all of this is that Middlesborough become one of the most loathed clubs in the country, because they'll start on Wrexham next if they launch any form of appeal attempt.

[tdmickey3]

32 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Unless we’re going to sue the EFL in the High Court it’s time to put this behind us. We need to deal with the FA by handing over those to blame and let the FA do what they need to do, we make good noises about lots of internal training and promise it will never happen again. And sack those responsible tomorrow whilst the boss is here.
 

At the same time the club needs to look for the new manager immediately and sit down with each player and find out who wants to stay and who wants to go. Those who want to go need to be sold asap. In the meantime we can sit down with people like Lallana and Romeu and look where the gaps are in the squad that need filling and start drawing up a list of targets.

Just do some shit. Don’t do any more navel gazing. We’ve done that for 24 hours. That’s more than enough. Action time.

Lallana would've known about it so he can sling his hook to

[LegalEagle]

4 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Lallana would've known about it so he can sling his hook to

Totally agree if he knew. No mercy can be shown as the FA won’t show any. 

[James G]

Tonda Eckert, who is battling to hold on to his job amid an FA investigation into the conduct of individuals at the club, argued he did not realise what he did was against the EFL’s statues.

 

That explains all the ai images earlier on

[Patrick Bateman]

16 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

I'd rather they said nothing about next season and kept their counsel to be fair. See what happens over the next 2 months, enjoy the world cup (!?) then see what's on the table either way.

Preferable to badge kissing and making promises to smash it next season only to be gone by the end of August. 

[tdmickey3]

52 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought. Of course everyone could be involved in an activity that doesn’t benefit them 🤣🤣
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

Says the bloke whinging about others..

[LegalEagle]

20 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

Love to know what his father-in-law is advising him to do

[Doctoroncall]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I've noticed the Boro fans starting to go after the Hull fans because they're whining about the decision.

My biggest hope out of all of this is that Middlesborough become one of the most loathed clubs in the country, because they'll start on Wrexham next if they launch any form of appeal attempt.

If Boro go up, will Hull go after them for damages?

[benjii]

22 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Another player not committing his future to Saints.

What do you expect him to say? 

[sadoldgit]

42 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So reading the general consensus, the Saintsweb brains trust seem to have concluded you don’t gain an advantage by spying, and everyone does it. Kind of contradicts each other I’d have thought. Of course everyone could be involved in an activity that doesn’t benefit them 🤣🤣
 

Also “Gibbo” used us this as a cunning back up plan in case they missed out on promotion. This does rather beg the question, if everyone’s at it, why didn’t he “stitch up Ipswich & Coventry to go up automatically. 
 

I just hope the full report is issued soon, so we can put to bed most of the pony on here.
 

 We cheated and got caught, I’ve no doubt we tried to do it in entry single game, and had we not been caught, would have tried to do it in the second leg, and the final against Hull. 
 

The whinging on here is worse than the Boro site was. 

So you are ok with us getting the book thrown at us for breaking the rules but when I posted about running an average speed check in our village you had a right old whinge at me for spoiling the drivers “fun” No problem with people driving faster than the speed limit through a village with young children and no pavements. Some rules can be broken then depending on what suits?

 

 

 

[benjii]

1 minute ago, Doctoroncall said:

If Boro go up, will Hull go after them for damages?

No, but EFL maybe.