#Spygate

[Lord Duckhunter]

Does anybody know the actual process of getting an independent body involved or the threshold etc. By that I mean, do the EFL look at the evidence and then decide there’s a case to answer and it’s so serious we need to be water tight. Do they just refer it to the independent body regardless of what they think or has our guilty plea, with mitigation mean the body are just dishing out the appropriate punishment. If we’d been accused of something else, tapping up for example, would that also go to this body, or would the EFL issue the sanction. I’m trying to work out whether the EFL getting this body involved automatically means there will be serious sporting sanctions.
 

In short, why couldn’t the EFL decide the punishment, with an independent body hearing any appeal. 

[PerthshireSaint]

Such a massive sanction - kicking a team out of the richest game in world football. For something like this sets a wild precedent 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Does anybody know the actual process of getting an independent body involved or the threshold etc. By that I mean, do the EFL look at the evidence and then decide there’s a case to answer and it’s so serious we need to be water tight. Do they just refer it to the independent body regardless of what they think or has our guilty plea, with mitigation mean the body are just dishing out the appropriate punishment. If we’d been accused of something else, tapping up for example, would that also go to this body, or would the EFL issue the sanction. I’m trying to work out whether the EFL getting this body involved automatically means there will be serious sporting sanctions.
 

In short, why couldn’t the EFL decide the punishment, with an independent body hearing any appeal. 

I can only imagine because the stakes are so high and it generates an environment of impartiality, reducing their position to an extent and chaired by industry legal experts.

[um pahars]

16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Our intern was at their ground. Alfie House and Adam have both said we aren't contesting it and have admitted privately that it has happened. They will obviously know. I can't see any scenario where we deny that we were spying, even if we try to mitigate things by suggesting he was a lone wolf. 

Our ex intern you mean.

That fella left saints in March and has since gone on to work for Villa as well as continuing his studies at Derby University.

 

 

 

 

ps all Dragan has to do is send a henchman up to Birmingham, make sure the story is he was doing some personal work (nothing to do with saints) and tell him he’s got a guaranteed job in 2027!!!

 

 

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Yeah I agree and Simon Jordan has said as much and he's spoken to Gibson. 

Simon Jordan is just another of Gibson's pet media contacts.

[tdmickey3]

See you all at Wembley 

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I can only imagine because the stakes are so high and it generates an environment of impartiality, reducing their position to an extent and chaired by industry legal experts.

The two chief executives are mates with Gibson and another member is chief executive of...Middlesbrough. No way can the EFL be involved in handing out sanctions in this case. 

[sadoldgit]

46 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Can't believe people are still reacting to stuff being posted on Boro forums by anonymous internet dickheads

Come on lads, seriously

🤣

It isn’t just there. It is literally all over social media! Any threads on the game the other night, the final or about us are full of hate.

[Convict Colony]

7 minutes ago, PerthshireSaint said:

Such a massive sanction - kicking a team out of the richest game in world football. For something like this sets a wild precedent 

honestly if that happened we need to recruit a team of spy catchers whose job it is to travel the country catching other teams spying on their opponents and report it to the efl.

we need to become uber snitches

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

It isn’t just there. It is literally all over social media! Any threads on the game the other night, the final or about us are full of hate.

It is isn’t it. Absolutely everywhere, they have genuinely weaponised it completely 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

There's one thing that doesn't sit right with me. Maybe I am overestimating the intellect of SFC employees, but what I don't understand is how an SFC employee could possibly tell an intern to go to Middlesbrough, take his phone and live stream the Middlesbrough training session knowing that a) Leeds had previously been fined for doing just that and b) that it was blatantly breaking the rules. Because that is such crass stupidity, you've got to ask is there some ulterior motive that we're missing?

Maybe this is just conspiracy theory talk but I would be looking at who gave these orders. It wasn't one of the ex Middlesbrough staff we've got on our books, was it? A double agent??

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, um pahars said:

Our ex intern you mean.

That fella left saints in March and has since gone on to work for Villa as well as continuing his studies at Derby University.

 

 

 

 

ps all Dragan has to do is send a henchman up to Birmingham, make sure the story is he was doing some personal work (nothing to do with saints) and tell him he’s got a guaranteed job in 2027!!!

 

 

Is this confirmed? Alfie House denied that was the case earlier I believe. I've seen no evidence other than that website to say he isn't still working for the club. 

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, sockeye said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/match/hull-city-vs-southampton--sky-bet-championship-play-off-final-23-05-2026

My goodness, that is going to really set the Boro lot off.. the telegraph sports department will be lucky if they have any credibility left by the end of the week at this rate. I sincerely hope any Southampton fan with a telegraph subscription is cancelling it after their shockingly inaccurate and defamatory coverage of the club this week.

[Doctoroncall]

3 hours ago, CSA96 said:

That will obviously be considered but if they genuinely do have the receipts in terms of communications from Spors to the analysis team (which he pointed out he was assuming responsibility for when he was appointed) then it's fair evidence

I think stating your point 2 was fair in your previous post. It makes the difference between a fine and sporting sanctions. Anything else is pure speculation with a disgruntled former employee with stolen documents from the club. 

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, um pahars said:

Our ex intern you mean.

That fella left saints in March and has since gone on to work for Villa as well as continuing his studies at Derby University.

 

 

 

 

ps all Dragan has to do is send a henchman up to Birmingham, make sure the story is he was doing some personal work (nothing to do with saints) and tell him he’s got a guaranteed job in 2027!!!

 

 

Is that definitely the case? Been a few rumours of it and he stopped being in photos from March. If he’s no longer working for us then there is literally no case whatsoever and all the accusations have been false. The guys was nothing to do with SFC when the incident took place 

Edited 46 minutes ago by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Simon Jordan is just another of Gibson's pet media contacts.

I don't think Simon Jordan is anyone's pet. My point was regardless of what you think of Simon Jordan, his allusions on the radio are clearly shaped by having spoke to Gibson directly so we can infer a lot from what he says. 

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Does anybody know the actual process of getting an independent body involved or the threshold etc. By that I mean, do the EFL look at the evidence and then decide there’s a case to answer and it’s so serious we need to be water tight. Do they just refer it to the independent body regardless of what they think or has our guilty plea, with mitigation mean the body are just dishing out the appropriate punishment. If we’d been accused of something else, tapping up for example, would that also go to this body, or would the EFL issue the sanction. I’m trying to work out whether the EFL getting this body involved automatically means there will be serious sporting sanctions.
 

In short, why couldn’t the EFL decide the punishment, with an independent body hearing any appeal. 

The regulations are here:

https://images.gc.eflservices.co.uk/526ac020-67b3-11f0-9ba4-015464ec39cd.pdf

Section 8, regulations 84, 85 and 90 - 93 (page 129, 130 and 133 onwards.

 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that definitely the case? Been a few rumours of it and he stopped being in photos from March. If he’s no longer working for us then there is literally no evidence whatsoever and all the accusations have been false. The guys was nothing to do with SFC when the incident took place 

If that was really the case then you would have expected us to deny it already. Alfie House I think also said that wasn't true. 

[VectisSaint]

30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Our intern was at their ground. Alfie House and Adam have both said we aren't contesting it and have admitted privately that it has happened. They will obviously know. I can't see any scenario where we deny that we were spying, even if we try to mitigate things by suggesting he was a lone wolf. 

Of course we are contesting it, what do you think is going on with our investigation? No one knows for sure that our intern was at their ground. No one even knows who was at the ground, other than allegations made by Boro to the EFL. Of course this is wrong because Alfie and Adam say it is. Journos never make things up. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

If that was really the case then you would have expected us to deny it already. Alfie House I think also said that wasn't true. 

Unless of course we’re just letting Boro make themselves look even more ridiculous, let them present they case then go “actually he doesn’t even work for us so 🖕🏼🖕🏼, now we’re suing you” 

of Course almost certainly not true but would be brilliant if it was 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Unless of course we’re just letting Boro make themselves look even more ridiculous, let them present they case then go “actually he doesn’t even work for us so 🖕🏼🖕🏼, now we’re suing you” 

of Course almost certainly not true but would be brilliant if it was 

Maybe that's what Tonda was alluding to when he said he would speak about it when the time was right

[tdmickey3]

15 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It isn’t just there. It is literally all over social media! Any threads on the game the other night, the final or about us are full of hate.

Who gives a shit

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, chownie20 said:

Sorry, are we now saying the spy wasn't Salt, it's not even a current SFC employee, and indeed one we recently sacked who was previously employed by Boro???

 

Thought it was clear cut it was Salt, he deleted his LinkedIn, etc.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/jason-taylor/profil/trainer/126892

And also, Jason Taylor's linked in profile has been deleted, still shows up on Google searches but link to his profile or posts by his profile won't work. So clearly taken down recently.

Busted sunshine.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Middlesbrough (Steve Gibson) doesn’t care who gets chucked under the buss along the way as long as he gets a small pay off.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If Boro were confident of anything, the very simple and obvious fact is that we wouldn't be reading about it in the press... The reality is that if we are reading anything at this stage, it's being leaked by Boro to try and bias the hearing and panic Southampton... But it equally means that's their only hope of getting whatever lesser deal their after. They are probably trying to bully us into a payment. I hope solak tells Gibson where to go on principle tbh.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Of course we are contesting it, what do you think is going on with our investigation? No one knows for sure that our intern was at their ground. No one even knows who was at the ground, other than allegations made by Boro to the EFL. Of course this is wrong because Alfie and Adam say it is. Journos never make things up. 

We are seeking to mitigate the charge of spying. The idea that this has all come out, that we have a photo of him at the ground, that he's used his bank card with his name at the hotel and that name matches the name of an intern at saints who can be seen in the photo and that we aren't denying it (not a chance would the efl be charging us if the person involved wasn't that employee) and that this is all made up is mental. What possible reason would Adam and Alfie have to lie? You're insane. 

[kwsaint]

I’m actually quite bored of this now. I think the only sources I trust on this issue are Blackmore, Alfie House, the Club and any EFL Statement. Anything beyond that is pure BS designed to try and influence the commission (which I doubt will work as they’re lawyers and not a jury of common people).

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Unless of course we’re just letting Boro make themselves look even more ridiculous, let them present they case then go “actually he doesn’t even work for us so 🖕🏼🖕🏼, now we’re suing you” 

of Course almost certainly not true but would be brilliant if it was 

It would but if that were true it would be pretty dumb to drag this all on and potentially unsettle all the players for no reason. That clearly hasn't happened. 

[Saint_clark]

31 minutes ago, PerthshireSaint said:

Such a massive sanction - kicking a team out of the richest game in world football. For something like this sets a wild precedent 

It doesn't even set a precedent though. How does this precedent apply if it happens mid season? Will a team be told that even if they finish in the top 2 they won't be promoted? 

[SfcPhil]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't think Simon Jordan is anyone's pet. My point was regardless of what you think of Simon Jordan, his allusions on the radio are clearly shaped by having spoke to Gibson directly so we can infer a lot from what he says. 

I used to like Simon Jordan (I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's straight talking) but 2 days ago he was laughing off skygate 2.0 and he described this whole fiasco as "bad form on the part of Southampton" rather than seeing it as full blown cheating.

Switch to yesterday, he went on an absolute meltdown like we'd shit on his doorstep overnight, saying we should pay Steve Gibson 10% of the money that we'd gain if we win promotion. Honestly I was embarrassed for him when I watched it, he didn't seem to take a breath for a minute. Obviously his mate Steve didn't like that he was so blasé the day before.

[SWLondon Saint]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that definitely the case? Been a few rumours of it and he stopped being in photos from March. If he’s no longer working for us then there is literally no case whatsoever and all the accusations have been false. The guys was nothing to do with SFC when the incident took place 

It would certainly be the most hilarious outcome, as we'd have an excellent case for defamation against Boro thanks to their media campaign....

[stknowle]

32 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Does anybody know the actual process of getting an independent body involved or the threshold etc. By that I mean, do the EFL look at the evidence and then decide there’s a case to answer and it’s so serious we need to be water tight. Do they just refer it to the independent body regardless of what they think or has our guilty plea, with mitigation mean the body are just dishing out the appropriate punishment. If we’d been accused of something else, tapping up for example, would that also go to this body, or would the EFL issue the sanction. I’m trying to work out whether the EFL getting this body involved automatically means there will be serious sporting sanctions.
 

In short, why couldn’t the EFL decide the punishment, with an independent body hearing any appeal. 

I don’t know but I can more or less guarantee whatever the outcome is it will be dismissed as a load of old pony by at least one poster on here.

[benjii]

53 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Not sure why. They’re in the final and playing us as far as they’re concerned. Until they get told otherwise, that’s what they’re preparing for. Their DOF publicly saying they don’t have us as suspects also confirms that they’re focussed solely on a Wembley game against us.

Besides, as Luke Ayling said in his TV interview, this doesn’t really flow to the players.

Sorry, to be clear, I mean the fans more than anything.

[obelisk]

34 minutes ago, PerthshireSaint said:

Such a massive sanction - kicking a team out of the richest game in world football. For something like this sets a wild precedent 

The equivalent of a £200m fine on top of a 10 point deduction. It's crazed.

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

I used to like Simon Jordan (I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's straight talking) but 2 days ago he was laughing off skygate 2.0 and he described this whole fiasco as "bad form on the part of Southampton" rather than seeing it as full blown cheating.

Switch to yesterday, he went on an absolute meltdown like we'd shit on his doorstep overnight, saying we should pay Steve Gibson 10% of the money that we'd gain if we win promotion. Honestly I was embarrassed for him when I watched it, he didn't seem to take a breath for a minute. Obviously his mate Steve didn't like that he was so blasé the day before.

Jordan was on the radio today again saying that there is zero chance we get thrown out. 

As I see it, he’s been quite consistent in his approach. Said that it’s wrong but the penalties being suggested are nonsense. And that Gibbo would be better off negotiating for a financial settlement.

[Saint NL]

3 minutes ago, obelisk said:

The equivalent of a £200m fine on top of a 10 point deduction. It's crazed.

Thats probably a bigger punishment than Man City will eventually get 😂

[Hussar Saint]

30 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It isn’t just there. It is literally all over social media! Any threads on the game the other night, the final or about us are full of hate.

That’s a bit hysterical, it really isn’t that bad. 

[benjii]

One thing we definitely know is that Adam Johnson is a nonce.

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

One thing we definitely know is that Adam Johnson is a nonce.

I won't believe it until someone tells me his debit card has been used to buy a coffee.

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

I used to like Simon Jordan (I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's straight talking) but 2 days ago he was laughing off skygate 2.0 and he described this whole fiasco as "bad form on the part of Southampton" rather than seeing it as full blown cheating.

Switch to yesterday, he went on an absolute meltdown like we'd shit on his doorstep overnight, saying we should pay Steve Gibson 10% of the money that we'd gain if we win promotion. Honestly I was embarrassed for him when I watched it, he didn't seem to take a breath for a minute. Obviously his mate Steve didn't like that he was so blasé the day before.

He didn't say that's what we should do, he said that's what it would probably take for Middlesbrough to drop it. We can conclude that it's pretty likely that that figure came from direct discussions with Gibson given he was ringing him on air the day before. 

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Jordan was on the radio today again saying that there is zero chance we get thrown out. 

As I see it, he’s been quite consistent in his approach. Said that it’s wrong but the penalties being suggested are nonsense. And that Gibbo would be better off negotiating for a financial settlement.

Imo he's spoken to Gibson who is fully aware that it's unlikely we will get thrown out but he wants his financial pound of flesh for the wrongdoing. 

[obelisk]

Maybe the EFL need to get a grip on the fact that making up flimsy rules about what or what isn't allowed is pretty brainless if there's no stipulation of what the penalties might be if anyone were to break them.

Carry on along this path and somebody will end up bankrupting the league in a proper court.

[saintant]

I look at the photo of the spy by the tree and it looks set up, almost posed? Who is taking the picture of him and why isn't he already on his toes. It just looks weird considering there are clearly many more suitable places to stand if you wanted to observe the training pitch. Probably clutching at straws but it looks stage managed 🙂

[Midfield_General]

47 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It isn’t just there. It is literally all over social media! Any threads on the game the other night, the final or about us are full of hate.

I really wouldn't worry about it. 

At the end of the day, it's just a load of blokes who should know better taking football way too seriously (and I count myself in that) and getting a bit silly about a kid standing in a hedge with an iphone. 

It's only football and the whole thing is tomorrow's fish and chip paper. This will get sorted next week, then something else will happen and everyone will move along and forget about it. It's just the circle of life/ football/ the internet. 

Love and light

Edited 3 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[Saint Scott]

 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Saint Scott said:

 

They are so desperate aren't they. If it's allowed then it makes a complete farce of the system.

[sockeye]

2 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

 

Getting extremely pathetic from them now