The Spygate Saga

[CSA96]

I wouldn't mind betting that some clubs who could have involved themselves decided to keep out of the shitshow with the playoff final and see what happens

I don't doubt that there's some opportunist execs out there around the league who might have seen that the precedent has been set at 3pts per game and now think they could stick the knife in and penalise a rival who have parachute payments

[The Wyvern]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

I wouldn't mind betting that some clubs who could have involved themselves decided to keep out of the shitshow with the playoff final and see what happens

I don't doubt that there's some opportunist execs out there around the league who might have seen that the precedent has been set at 3pts per game and now think they could stick the knife in and penalise a rival who have parachute payments

Hypothetically, let’s say there’s evidence of us spying on 15 extra games last season. By the precedent set that would mean we get a further 30-45 points deduction? 🤣

At what point would it be capped?! 

[CSA96]

Just now, The Wyvern said:

Hypothetically, let’s say there’s evidence of us spying on 15 extra games last season. By the precedent set that would mean we get a further 30-45 points deduction? 🤣

At what point would it be capped?! 

Yeah that could be a very valid question… 😬

All the more reason to sack all associated with it to show the club is getting its house in order

[The Wyvern]

Also, hypothetically, there’s no time-bar on such claims? So a club could drop something in at any time they fancied?! 
 

This is the problem with rules, they always require more and more rules. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Yeah that could be a very valid question… 😬

All the more reason to sack all associated with it to show the club is getting its house in order

That’ll be the trade off with other clubs and the EFL which is why there’s no chance Tonda stays.

[The Wyvern]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Yeah that could be a very valid question… 😬

All the more reason to sack all associated with it to show the club is getting its house in order

Again, surely it can’t be a case of being able to sack staff to avoid a further punishment whenever a club gets caught doing something wrong. Just more evidence of very badly defined rules/punishment processes. 

[Gloucester Saint]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If it is proven we have done this in other league games, it will obviously be -3 (or -2) for every instance.

As said earlier, we have been profilic for a large part of the season with it. Just depends if other clubs have concrete proof and want to go there.

Exposing their own activities as well.

Tonda will go, that will be the EFL’s price for not examining further.

[sockeye]

Imagine a world where everyone had dirt on everyone, the Championship becomes full spygate wars with point deductions everywhere, and the title winner for 2026/27 finishes on 25 points.  

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, The Wyvern said:

Hypothetically, let’s say there’s evidence of us spying on 15 extra games last season. By the precedent set that would mean we get a further 30-45 points deduction? 🤣

At what point would it be capped?! 

That would be absurd. Bring it on 

[Ted Bates Statue]

1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

I wouldn't mind betting that some clubs who could have involved themselves decided to keep out of the shitshow with the playoff final and see what happens

I don't doubt that there's some opportunist execs out there around the league who might have seen that the precedent has been set at 3pts per game and now think they could stick the knife in and penalise a rival who have parachute payments

Oh great, so because we laughed at Gibbo today he's going to come after us again, but this time round up the other 22 clubs and hand them all pitchforks and torches, because who needs to play football and stick the ball in the back of the net when you can just sic your lawyers on Southampton instead?

Is this why we're being quiet now, everyone's been sacked in the vain hope that we get away with getting sent straight to League 1 next season, rather than fumble around in the same division like Sheffield Wednesday did, desperately trying to achieve a positive points total?

Edited 9 hours ago by Ted Bates Statue

[CanadaSaint]

I’m not clear on this. What was the proof that we spied on Oxford and Ipswich, other than our own admission?

Edited 5 hours ago by CanadaSaint

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If it is proven we have done this in other league games, it will obviously be -3 (or -2) for every instance.

As said earlier, we have been profilic for a large part of the season with it. Just depends if other clubs have concrete proof and want to go there.

Why do they need concrete proof?  Pathetic Phil will just put his hands in the air and own up won't he?

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, CanadaSaint said:

I’m not clear on this. What was the proof that we spied on Oxford and Ipswich, other than our own admission?

From the conversations with the intern and others during the investigation. It's not just us listing out confessions.

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

From the conversations with the intern and others during the investigation. It's not just us listing out confessions.

The FA can’t implement a points deduction, that’d have to come from the EFL? 

[Tamesaint]

Which Championship teams have training facilities which are open to the public and wouldn't require trespassing in order to spy? Boro clearly do and I know that Oxford do. How many others are there? 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Which Championship teams have training facilities which are open to the public and wouldn't require trespassing in order to spy? Boro clearly do and I know that Oxford do. How many others are there? 

Eastleigh - so anyone training there the day before a match having travelled can be watched.  Although you'd like to think they wouldn't be working on tactics then! 

[Tamesaint]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Eastleigh - so anyone training there the day before a match having travelled can be watched.  Although you'd like to think they wouldn't be working on tactics then! 

Ipswich clearly trained there for the evening fixture. I doubt that other visiting teams would have time to go there for a 3pm kickoff. 

[Marsdinho]

Why are Eastleigh helping our rivals out, let them use condoms for goal posts on the common!

[offsidetrap]

2 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I’m not clear on this. What was the proof that we spied on Oxford and Ipswich, other than our own admission?

Eastleigh kit shop track suit receipt 

And maybe speeding ticket on A34

[leesaint88]

29 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Which Championship teams have training facilities which are open to the public and wouldn't require trespassing in order to spy? Boro clearly do and I know that Oxford do. How many others are there? 

Not as many as people think. Portsmouth, Millwall and Hull are the ones I can think of. You can get a partial view of Wrexham from the hillside behind, but you’ll be certain testing the levels of performance on an iPhone for that one…

[BH_Saint]

51 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Not as many as people think. Portsmouth, Millwall and Hull are the ones I can think of. You can get a partial view of Wrexham from the hillside behind, but you’ll be certain testing the levels of performance on an iPhone for that one…

How about Bristol City and Norwich? They were also rumoured to have been spied on by Saints.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 hour ago, offsidetrap said:

Eastleigh kit shop track suit receipt 

And maybe speeding ticket on A34

Time to burn and erase all information and get behind GDPR to protect ourselves.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

The FA can’t implement a points deduction, that’d have to come from the EFL? 

Guess the FA is more about bans and fines as they don't run the competitions. 

[LGTL]

10 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Everyone's favourite Watford fan (and friend/connection of Jason Taylor)

 

He’s a right chump. Likes to think he’s some big ITK when in reality, he’s just mates with Jason Taylor and so has had unlimited access to this one story. 

He’s also got previous for ABH and GBH so a questionable character all round. 

[scumbag]

You would have thought that the first thing Dragan did was ask how many other times? Then destroy any evidence they can, and pay off anyone who might talk.  

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

From the conversations with the intern and others during the investigation. It's not just us listing out confessions.

I would assume that if we had done it to others then they would have also said about these as well? Equally I don’t believe that we’ve only done it 3 times. It’s all very odd.

[westmidlandsaint]

Maybe if there are other teams they may not be as outraged as

A) they are also doing it themselves 

B) they don't think it's that big of a deal

C) they don't want to ruin relationships for any future transfer/loans (if I was them I'd use this in any negotiations)

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

I hope this is just rumours about other clubs coming after Saints. And that, as others said dont necessarily want to bring it to the fore due to what else is goes on.

Either way, Saints to ensure going forward that their lawyers are prepared this time.

[benjii]

The best comment I saw on Twitter after yesterday's match was,

"I'm surprised the spy managed to stay awake."

[VectisSaint]

3 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I’m not clear on this. What was the proof that we spied on Oxford and Ipswich, other than our own admission?

We didn't just own up to it, the information came from Middlesbro, presumably from the whistleblower (whoever he or she was), the EFL then charged us on Sunday and we accepted that it was the case. 

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

We didn't just own up to it, the information came from Middlesbro, presumably from the whistleblower (whoever he or she was), the EFL then charged us on Sunday and we accepted that it was the case. 

Jason Taylor. Ex saints and Boro analyst. Sacked by saints in December with a clear ax to grind. 

[Simo is back]

Might buy a Boro training top and start mooching around bushes at all other teams training grounds with a camera next season. 

[Disco Stu]

Brilliant that Middlesbrough lost 🤣

[Challenger]

Saints acted like complete idiots on all this, Boro like complete arseholes.

[saintant]

9 hours ago, sockeye said:

Imagine a world where everyone had dirt on everyone, the Championship becomes full spygate wars with point deductions everywhere, and the title winner for 2026/27 finishes on 25 points.  

Time to ditch the rule and do the same as the PL and everyone else. Then, if clubs don't want training watched it is up to them to make everything secure so it can't happen. Stops all the nonsense we've just been through. Stupid rule anyway.

[BotleySaint]

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Brilliant that Middlesbrough lost 🤣

I'm disturbed how much joy its given me !

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, saintant said:

Time to ditch the rule and do the same as the PL and everyone else. Then, if clubs don't want training watched it is up to them to make everything secure so it can't happen. Stops all the nonsense we've just been through. Stupid rule anyway.

Even if they wanted to, they can't really ditch the rule now

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

I'm annoyed around the whole narrative of this being the worst cheating ever.

Yes, Saints cheated. They were punished, harshly in my opinion but its done. 

Now having Leeds fans saying Biesla owned it via a PowerPoint and paid the fine out of his own pocket hence why its worse now.

The act was the bloody same!

[StrangelyBrown]

43 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I would assume that if we had done it to others then they would have also said about these as well? Equally I don’t believe that we’ve only done it 3 times. It’s all very odd.

Maybe it is only these 3 teams who had training sessions that were so easily spied on?

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Even if they wanted to, they can't really ditch the rule now

Clearly they can do pretty much what they like 🙂

[trousers]

Just now, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I'm annoyed around the whole narrative of this being the worst cheating ever.

Yes, Saints cheated. They were punished, harshly in my opinion but its done. 

Now having Leeds fans saying Biesla owned it via a PowerPoint and paid the fine out of his own pocket hence why its worse now.

The act was the bloody same!

Careful.... You'll have the "But there was a different rule in place!!" brigade on your back, conflating 'the act' with 'the punishment' as per usual....

[benjii]

45 minutes ago, westmidlandsaint said:

Maybe if there are other teams they may not be as outraged as

A) they are also doing it themselves 

B) they don't think it's that big of a deal

C) they don't want to ruin relationships for any future transfer/loans (if I was them I'd use this in any negotiations)

Inshallah, but I don't think even Oxford or Ipswich got involved. It all came from Taylor and then coroborated by Salt.

[egg]

The panel made a rod for their own backs by giving points for the other 2 games. It gives an incentive for Boro and other clubs to go investigate, and was completely unnecessary - the expulsion was a massive penalty, and if they'd said that there was no additional penalty for the other games as the expulsion serves as a penalty for all offences, that would have put it to bed. 

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, benjii said:

Inshallah, but I don't think even Oxford or Ipswich got involved. It all came from Taylor and then coroborated by Salt.

I still think there's a viable possibility that the Middlesbrough lawyer (De Marco) deduced that another couple of examples was enough to convince the EFL / hearing panel to throw the book at us, whilst holding back evidence of additional examples to potentially use in the future should they want / need to do so... Given all the 'unbelievable' twists and turns we've seen over the last few weeks, I don't think that's a particularly bonkers hypothesis...

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[egg]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Even if they wanted to, they can't really ditch the rule now

They wouldn't be daft enough to ditch it now, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go in time. You can't stop the practice , for example, drones flying over head. You have no way of telling who's controlling them, even if it comes down. 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

The panel made a rod for their own backs by giving points for the other 2 games. It gives an incentive for Boro and other clubs to go investigate, and was completely unnecessary - the expulsion was a massive penalty, and if they'd said that there was no additional penalty for the other games as the expulsion serves as a penalty for all offences, that would have put it to bed. 

Precisely...

One can only hope that the suspicion that other clubs have also done this kinda thing keeps a lid on matters....

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[egg]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I still think there's a viable possibility that the Middlesbrough lawyer (De Marco) deduced that another couple of examples was enough to convince the EFL / hearing panel to throw the book at us, whilst holding back evidence of additional examples to potentially use in the future should they want / need to do so... Given all the 'unbelievable' twists and turns we've seen over the last few weeks, I don't think that's a particularly bonkers hypothesis...

Without doubt. Those offences were the first in time so I'd imagine were treated as something akin to "previous convictions". That, plus our dishonesty, daft suggestion of a fine alone as an appropriate penalty (I'd have offered up an EFL cup ban, plus points), the significance of the play offs, pushed us over the edge. 

[benjii]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

I still think there's a viable possibility that the Middlesbrough lawyer (De Marco) deduced that another couple of examples was enough to convince the EFL / hearing panel to throw the book at us, whilst holding back evidence of additional examples to potentially use in the future should they want / need to do so... Given all the 'unbelievable' twists and turns we've seen over the last few weeks, I don't think that's a particularly bonkers hypothesis...

I dunno, surely they would have thrown everything they had at it. This was their chance.

[pingpong]

I think the public (us) can get involved here.

There is nothing in the rules that says a member of the public can't go and stream training sessions, if they are not trespassing (which you can do at Boro, Oxford etc)

We could stream all of Middlesbrough's training in the days leading up to our game with them (or all of their games, for that matter) and show them on YouTube.

Then it becomes impossible to prove if a member of saints staff views the YouTube videos.

And eventually sanity will prevail and they'll either remove the rule or clubs will stop training in public.

[LegalEagle]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

I still think there's a viable possibility that the Middlesbrough lawyer (De Marco) deduced that another couple of examples was enough to convince the EFL / hearing panel to throw the book at us, whilst holding back evidence of additional examples to potentially use in the future should they want / need to do so... Given all the 'unbelievable' twists and turns we've seen over the last few weeks, I don't think that's a particularly bonkers hypothesis...

Not bonkers but highly unlikely in my view. Their sole objective over the past 10 days was to get us out of the final. They would have used everything they could to get us expelled. There is also no advantage in holding any back with the risk that the EFL would close the book on the episode. They knew that Oxford and Ipswich was going to get a points deduction. Why not chuck in another five at that point and get a 14 point deduction there and then? 

The bigger risk is that the FA enquiry reveals more which they then pass on to the EFL. Hence why Saints haven’t sacked anyone yet. They want to keep those people including Tonda onside and in the camp rather than turn them into bitter snitches. Better in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.

When Dragan turned up this week, if I’d been in his shoes the first thing I would have asked is whether there were any other clubs we spied on. Tonda probably coughed and Dragan thought we need to keep him in the tent,