The Spygate Saga

[obelisk]

2 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

The reason for it is that a majority of clubs wanted it.

Why did they want it? Who called for it? Hands up those who knew it even existed.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

We did, but Tonda didn't, as he asked the person to go sooner.

So we should object to any sanction that relates to the Boro game.

yet the manager (and club) have held their hands up and said, yep, we did that

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, obelisk said:

Why did they want it? Who called for it? Hands up those who knew it even existed.

I knew (after the Leeds situation)

I guess the majority of EFL clubs agreed to it. If they did not, matters not one jot.

[benjii]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

I don't recall seeing any specific timings within Tonda's instructions to the analyst reported anywhere before... Any link to a quote on that?

He said it or Parsons said it in the recent interview. They said we wanted someone to go up sooner  but the original person didn't go and then Salt rocked up too late. I don't see how Tonda can be culpable for that.

So you're left with two regular season matches, where we got a grand total of one point.

I'd say a 2 game touchline ban, a fine and a suspended additional ban is fair.

[benjii]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

yet the manager (and club) have held their hands up and said, yep, we did that

The club is culpable. The question here is whether the individual is.

[egg]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

We did, but Tonda didn't, as he asked the person to go sooner.

So we should object to any sanction that relates to the Boro game.

If Tonda's instructions were to do it when we were allowed, and as much as I take your point, the panel may conclude that there was a breach following his initial instructions and that the buck stops with him. There's certainly mitigation if not a defence.

Let's see what happens. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, benjii said:

The club is culpable. The question here is whether the individual is.

not today they are not.

[Saint NL]

[Saint_lambden]

29 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Just reading up about this Canada drone scandal which often gets dragged up.

From what I can gather, during the investigation it was discovered that the incident during the Olympics wasn't a one off and that it had been happening over a much longer period. So that's where the 12 month ban for the manager came in.

If it just these three incidents we're involved then maybe a total ban won't be applied.

Ignoring the noise and hyperbole, it seems to me from most normal, neutral fans that the appropriate sanction is a touchline ban and a large fine. We'll see what happens today.

Slight contradiction there. It’ll be 6 months if he’s lucky. 

[EssEffCee]

5 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Why did they want it? Who called for it? Hands up those who knew it even existed.

I reckon any fans whose club were in the EFL at time would have known it existed. Plenty outside that too, I certainly remember a rule being added after Biesla.

Can't speak for the why but it's irrelevant surely? The fact remains that if a majority of clubs didn't agree with it then the rule wouldn't exist.

[Midfield_General]

51 minutes ago, obelisk said:

It is legal. It's fine to do it on Wednesday but not on a Thursday. It's a bonkers rule and Championship teams should be told to put up a fence if they think their routines are worth keeping secret.

The rule is the rule. What you think of it or whether you agree with it is irrelevant. 

[The Wyvern]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Media propaganda continues, nice placement on various BBC platforms letting us all know that EVERY manager agrees a HUGE ban is needed. 

FA can then just be seen to be following popular opinion 

 

 

The sort of quality journalism we’ve come to expect from the bbc these days. Trash. 

[Saints4Prem]

8 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Well that is a big surprise, supporters of other clubs in the division do not want our successful manager to carry on. Surely not !!! 

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, benjii said:

He said it or Parsons said it in the recent interview. They said we wanted someone to go up sooner  but the original person didn't go and then Salt rocked up too late. I don't see how Tonda can be culpable for that.

So you're left with two regular season matches, where we got a grand total of one point.

I'd say a 2 game touchline ban, a fine and a suspended additional ban is fair.

I'm surprised I (and the wider media) didn't pick up in that... If that's the case then it changes everything, surely? Yes, we (the club) ultimately ended up doing wrong regardless, but if Tonda was telling people to do this kinda thing within the regulated timeframes, and they subsequently ignore him, then any punishment specifically aimed at Tonda has to take that into account...

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[The Wyvern]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'm surprised I (and the wider media) didn't pick up in that... If that's the case then it changes everything, surely? Yes, we (the club) ultimately ended up doing wrong regardless, but if Tonda was telling people to do this kinda thing within the regulated timeframes, and they subsequently ignore him, then any punishment has to take that into account...

It’s an interesting legal argument isn’t it and could certainly help Tonda’s case if presented in the right way. 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I'm surprised I (and the wider media) didn't pick up in that... If that's the case then it changes everything, surely? Yes, we (the club) ultimately ended up doing wrong regardless, but if Tonda was telling people to do this kinda thing within the regulated timeframes, and they subsequently ignore him, then any punishment specifically aimed at Tonda has to take that into account...

If we can prove it

Edit: Although thinking about it, his defence was that he said he didn't know what the rules were. So he/ the club can't have it both ways. 

Edited 4 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[carljack]

9 match ban and a fine is my guess

[sfc4prem]

I wonder what topic all of these fans of other clubs and sports journalists will turn their sanctimonious attentions to next?

Doris the tea lady at Blackburn flashing herself to members of their U21 team?

A clandestine drug and gambling ring uncovered at the heart of Portsmouth AFC?

The CEO of Middlesbrough getting a parking and unleashing a tirade of abuse to the parking attendant?

 

[Fabrice29]

Just listening to the Solent chat last night about other incidents/punishments…absolutely bat shit crazy stuff from Blackmore and co again isn’t it? 😂 

Add to his commentary which is consistently way off (feel sorry for anyone relying on that without the pictures to show what’s actually happening).

[SylvianSylvian]

Expecting a year or 6 months… hopefully we can roll it back a bit on appeal…. 😡🤬

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just listening to the Solent chat last night about other incidents/punishments…absolutely bat shit crazy stuff from Blackmore and co again isn’t it? 😂 

Add to his commentary which is consistently way off (feel sorry for anyone relying on that without the pictures to show what’s actually happening).

what were they saying?

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

[AlexLaw76]

We'd be demanding the biggest punishment of all had it not been for SFC doing the deed

[Fabrice29]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

what were they saying?

Just breezed over the two most comparable incidents and spent most of the time chatting about completely irrelevant cases and asking if the punishment should be bigger/smaller. 

Just weird click bait content combined with his usual hysteria and loving the sound of his own voice. 

[goodymatt]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

Indicative of the cancel culture we live in. Voting for a punishment doesn’t necessarily mean those fans are voting for a 6 month ban mind, just that he should have an individual punishment of some description. Would be interesting to see that chart for the question of a 6 or 12 month ban.

[benjii]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

The correct binary answer is "yes", but it needs to be a reasonable punishment. 

[Zorba]

35 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

More like..

[hippo]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

To be fair, I’ve only spoken to one guy who said we deserved the punishment - a Bristol City fan that has never liked us much anyway.  Everyone else thought it was OTT. 
 

Might just be my bubble though of course!

Edited 1 hour ago by hippo

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Zorba said:

More like..

We all know gibbo`s opinion is the one that counts

Edited 1 hour ago by tdmickey3

[Football Special]

33 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

The sort of quality journalism we’ve come to expect from the bbc these days. Trash. 

It is, but I dont believe these stories happen by chance. They made sure they found a manager prepared to read the script and had the headline ready , its coordinated 

[Sheaf Saint]

39 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Well you can exclude Pompey from that for a start if you're looking for objectivity, and Boro of course. Could probably add in Wrexham and Millwall as well.

But this is just a pointless graphic without additional context. I bet 90% or more of those canvassed don't know any details of the case or the charges and just lazily assume Tonda bears sole responsibility for it.

I'd also like to know which Saints fans they asked, because the overwhelming consensus that I see among us is that he absolutely should face some kind of punishment if the FA have evidence of deliberate wrongdoing on his part. The only major disagreement seems to be over the severity of said punishment.

I really don't see what point SS were trying to make with this.

[saintwbu]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We'd be demanding the biggest punishment of all had it not been for SFC doing the deed

If it was Pompey I would, if it was anyone else I can say with certainty I would not give a single shit

[Midfield_General]

6 minutes ago, Football Special said:

It is, but I dont believe these stories happen by chance. They made sure they found a manager prepared to read the script and had the headline ready , its coordinated 

Maddest take yet, congratulations.

Go on then - who wrote this script, and why? 

Edited 1 hour ago by Midfield_General

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Football Special said:

It is, but I dont believe these stories happen by chance. They made sure they found a manager prepared to read the script and had the headline ready , its coordinated 

Jesus Christ 😂

[Football Special]

22 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just listening to the Solent chat last night about other incidents/punishments…absolutely bat shit crazy stuff from Blackmore and co again isn’t it? 😂 

Add to his commentary which is consistently way off (feel sorry for anyone relying on that without the pictures to show what’s actually happening).

Blackbore is a cunt and is certainly no friend of this football club 

[saintant]

53 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

not today they are not.

Isn't that the point being made?

[qwertyell]

32 minutes ago, trousers said:

but if Tonda was telling people to do this kinda thing within the regulated timeframes, and they subsequently ignore him, then any punishment specifically aimed at Tonda has to take that into account...

Given that his previous bullshit defence was that he didn't know the rules, it'd be wild if his defence has now switched to "I was specifically telling them to do it within the rules. That I didn't know about."

We have the worst fucking lawyers. 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Blackbore is a cunt and is certainly no friend of this football club 

I don’t think that at all. I think he’s just a wally and all over the place.

[Challenger]

10 hours ago, trousers said:

The moon is currently in the Waxing Gibbous phase... Make of that what you will... 

 

Relax, all this means is that it's Gibbo's time of the month.

[Saint_clark]

34 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

Everyone I've spoken to says it was ridiculous, but my social circle aren't the kind of people who would be on their devices enough to take part in a social media poll. 

[Football Special]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I don’t think that at all. I think he’s just a wally and all over the place.

He's a wally with an agenda whose voice goes high pitch with excitement every time he gets onto the topic of "Tonda's punishment " , our fans need to make it clear when he shows his fat chops around St Mary’s 

Cracks me up that people can't see we're being fucked in the media again. 

BBC just happened to be speaking to fucking Cambridge Uniteds manager who was only too happy to share with them that EVERY manager wants Tonda to get a HUGE ban and plaster it all over their socials just before the hearing. No push back, who had told you this then Harris? Show us your research? 

SKY publishing an arbitrary survey with no context of how many fans asked, just a pile on using their platform. 

[hypochondriac]

44 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Seems to indicate a rather different general opinion to the people on here who insist that, "literally every fan I know who supports other clubs thinks we’ve had a ridiculously over the top punishment."

TBF though you can think the punishment was ridiculous and still push for more because it helps your club. It also doesn't say the severity of the punishment. Heck even I think he deserves some form of punishment for it.

[disconnect]

30 minutes ago, hippo said:

To be fair, I’ve only spoken to one guy who said we deserved the punishment - a Bristol City fan that has never liked us much anyway.  Everyone else thought it was OTT. 
 

Might just be my bubble though of course!

Even the Pompey fan at work thought that anything else would be ridiculous! 

It's amazing how (mostly Boro!) fans think this is the worst thing ever, when they're probably happily living their lives not giving a sh*t about how much crime there is on the streets, climate issues, cost of living spiralling etc - i.e. things that actually affect people. I guess it's much easier to be a cancel culture keyboard warrior than actually do anything positive with your lives.

[Challenger]

9 minutes ago, Football Special said:

He's a wally with an agenda whose voice goes high pitch with excitement every time he gets onto the topic of "Tonda's punishment " , our fans need to make it clear when he shows his fat chops around St Mary’s 

Cracks me up that people can't see we're being fucked in the media again. 

BBC just happened to be speaking to fucking Cambridge Uniteds manager who was only too happy to share with them that EVERY manager wants Tonda to get a HUGE ban and plaster it all over their socials just before the hearing. No push back, who had told you this then Harris? Show us your research? 

SKY publishing an arbitrary survey with no context of how many fans asked, just a pile on using their platform. 

Deffo getting fucked by the media again, needs someone in the club to come out and do some pushing back.

Actually on second thoughts, probably best not.

[Britannia]

Should it be 6 months or greater, he's getting sacked surely?

Are the club really going to pay him for 6 months to do nothing or hire another manager to move on from it.  Presumably the contract would be void through the freelance equivalent of 'gross misconduct', no gardening leave?

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

1 hour ago, carljack said:

9 match ban and a fine is my guess

Back for the Boro game, excellent.

And the good news, if we can find away of arguing he's not working for us at that time, he can go for a quick round of golf somewhere near Middlesbrough.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, carljack said:

9 match ban and a fine is my guess

Yep that's where I'm leaning. Hope would be that some of the games may be suspended due to pleading guilty and cooperating and maybe that he didn't orchestrate everything rather than delegating to others.

[whelk]

Harris and that cunt that manages Bromley are marked for life. As are Winter and Corden. 

[hypochondriac]

I find it odd the narrative from some people about other instances of spying. He hasn't been charged with other instances, only the three so it shouldn't factor into things. Presumably if they had evidence of other instances later on then they would add further charges.

[Britannia]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Harris and that cunt that manages Bromley are marked for life. As are Winter and Corden. 

Simon Jordan has gone up in my estimation after I thought he put some reasoned points across at the time.