Saints 3-1 Swansea - Match Thread

[hypochondriac]

Notable that we are now above the points we had at that stage last year even with the four point deduction. Bodes well.

[whelk]

10 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure that's the catchiest version of that chant.

Must be able to tie up with the Boney M song?

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, CSA96 said:

With the Blackmore and Tessem commentary

 

Blatant push on Leo.

[whelk]

52 minutes ago, benjii said:

I did laugh at the wise crowd cheering a punt upfield from Peretz even though we had just scored from an attack by playing out.

It was stressful watching their 3 players in starting sprint pose and then given it to poor Wood. Great when you play through it of course but also very prone to us fucking it up

[Mr X]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Blatant push on Leo.

It was as blatant as brees 

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Notable that we are now above the points we had at that stage last year even with the four point deduction. Bodes well.

That’s good although think the division is stronger this year. Thank fuck Burnley are imploding but two from us, Boro, West Ham and Wolves I think.

[Viking Saint]

10 hours ago, whelk said:

Let’s hope Tonda gets the boot soon eh

Let's wait until the FA have done their utmost to fuck things up for us

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I did laugh at the wise crowd cheering a punt upfield from Peretz even though we had just scored from an attack by playing out.

Geeet it fooooorward Saints 

[AlexLaw76]

GET IN THE MIXER

FUCKING HIT HIM!!!!

[trousers]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I did laugh at the wise crowd cheering a punt upfield from Peretz even though we had just scored from an attack by playing out.

 

31 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Especially the muppet behind me who talks shite every game and screams in my ear.  Might have to change my seat to get away from the clueless prick.

You sit in front of @Baird of the land? Small world! 

#chill..itsjustbanter

#nooffenceintended

Edited 11 hours ago by trousers

[saintwbu]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I did laugh at the wise crowd cheering a punt upfield from Peretz even though we had just scored from an attack by playing out.

They also won it straight back from that kick, completely illustrating why we hadn’t been doing it all game. Was great that we scored our third from that goal kick everyone was booing for going short (albeit we did give it away and have to win it back).

[suewhistle]

Some context would help for that particular episode and it happened in front of me. Wood is a bit slow and had been caught about three times, or given somewhat hospital balls to Bree who then had to hurry his passes with the result that passing out from the back didn't work anyway. Tonda then gestured them to go long after a number of dodgy incidents and the team did move as one to do so. I think in the circumstances changing it up a bit was probably a good idea.

Most of us know why we play out from the back: the intention is to control play and keep possession, but we weren't doing so (a la Russell), and the crowd's unrest was a reflection of that. It will be interesting to see whether Dobson would perform better in that position, he can't be as slow [thinking?] as Wood. 

[Miltonaggro]

Mention in dispatches to Prowsey last night. Watched him for a lot of the game, and it was all about marshalling the players around him and using experience to set the tempo. Also the big German centre half didn’t put a foot wrong - we have a proper footballer there. 

[lumuah]

37 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Notable that we are now above the points we had at that stage last year even with the four point deduction. Bodes well.

We would be top of the league...

[Greenridge]

46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Notable that we are now above the points we had at that stage last year even with the four point deduction. Bodes well.

The Will Still effect

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Blatant push on Leo.

A touch on the back.

[Whitey Grandad]

46 minutes ago, Mr X said:

It was as blatant as brees 

Bree's was a shirt tug.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I did laugh at the wise crowd cheering a punt upfield from Peretz even though we had just scored from an attack by playing out.

Do we score every time that we play out from the back?

Do we sometimes concede possession in a dangerous situation when we do?

[Tamesaint]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Do we score every time that we play out from the back?

Do we sometimes concede possession in a dangerous situation when we do?

No and yes but last night it worked for us

[Thripp87]

Great team performance yesterday, with some lovely goals. Downes is in the form of his life, edged Motm for me.

Top without the points deduction.

[VectisSaint]

53 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Some context would help for that particular episode and it happened in front of me. Wood is a bit slow and had been caught about three times, or given somewhat hospital balls to Bree who then had to hurry his passes with the result that passing out from the back didn't work anyway. Tonda then gestured them to go long after a number of dodgy incidents and the team did move as one to do so. I think in the circumstances changing it up a bit was probably a good idea.

Most of us know why we play out from the back: the intention is to control play and keep possession, but we weren't doing so (a la Russell), and the crowd's unrest was a reflection of that. It will be interesting to see whether Dobson would perform better in that position, he can't be as slow [thinking?] as Wood. 

It was more than a gesture from Tonda, he seemed to be fuming with what was happening, and not just Wood, Peretz was getting in a tangle of his own making a few times, his kicking last night was reminiscent of Forster, kicking for touch was never a good tactic. The commentator on Sky made a point of it as well. It does seem like the players don't seem able to think for themselves in these situations, something Tonda has said before he wants them to do more often. Playing out from the back is good at times, but sometimes they need to change it up and make different decisions.

[Miltonaggro]

9 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

Great team performance yesterday, with some lovely goals. Downes is in the form of his life, edged Motm for me.

Top without the points deduction.

Yep Downes for me too, total commitment and the right choice for skipper.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

(albeit we did give it away and have to win it back).

Exactly. Another game, we won’t win it back and will have given it away again. 3 or 4 times, we minced around , got caught and in another day may get punished.
 

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with knocking it long once in a while to relieve the pressure. As for the hipsters criticism of people happy we knocked it long just after just taking a 3-1 lead., that was exactly the right call. Fuck me, the last thing you want to do is the Wood/Bree chuckle brothers act a minute after taking a 2 goal lead. Arsenal would have knocked it long then, we knocked it long just before half time, we knock it long from kick offs, nothing wrong with it at all. Even if they win it back, you’re all set defensively and they’ve got to get up the pitch. Bit easier to defend than giving it away on the edge of the box.
 

We over did it yesterday, were sloppy with our passing from goal kicks, but got away with it, another day we won’t.  I’d have said the tactics worked yesterday, not because our execution of it was excellent, but because Swansea, for all their pretty build up play, were pretty toothless when we gave it away in our defensive third and didnt capitalise. 

[Oldandtired]

2 hours ago, Football Special said:

 

Really enjoyed the game last night,  Swansea played some good stuff as well and made it a good advert for the Championship 👍 

Agreed. I know the Prem is the ultimate goal (never mind all those we're seeing at St. Marys lately) but more and more I know which football I'd rather be watching...clue, it's not Saints v Arsenal and VAR.

[SouthWalesSaints]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

They also won it straight back from that kick, completely illustrating why we hadn’t been doing it all game. Was great that we scored our third from that goal kick everyone was booing for going short (albeit we did give it away and have to win it back).

They are called "artificial transitions", teams purposely put passes in areas where it creates duels and ricochets. I think people are so naïve to just how good professional football players are.  

[hypochondriac]

Alfie house still talking about the possibility of signing a free agent. Didn't someone mention a striker that was previously in Germany?

[BarryVenisonsHair]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Alfie house still talking about the possibility of signing a free agent. Didn't someone mention a striker that was previously in Germany?

Bierhoff or Jancker?

[East Kent Saint]

16 minutes ago, BarryVenisonsHair said:

Bierhoff or Jancker?

Kane probably 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

11 hours ago, suewhistle said:

Better in the middle really..

 

😉

Bad news Sue

12 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

He's never a winger. 🙂

Your sense of humour has dipped dangerously close to mine. 🙂

[SouthWalesSaints]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Do we score every time that we play out from the back?

Do we sometimes concede possession in a dangerous situation when we do?

I think you’re missing the point of why teams do it.  If you kick it long all game, the games are played over small spaces.  A team like saints (dominant for the league) want an open and big pitch.  They work on this all week, one pass gets you away.  Saints have the right balance atm.  It’s not just about scoring, it’s about territory, control, set pieces, etc etc. 

 

I think there are times in the game that you have to manage, but ultimately we have to trust that they know more than fat Dave in row x about football.  Considerably more.  The “I’ve been watching saints for 30 years and I know my football” is the equivalent of someone who builds Lego over an engineer designing a bridge. The manager’s and coaches at this level on the whole are geniuses. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, SouthWalesSaints said:

I think you’re missing the point of why teams do it.  If you kick it long all game, the games are played over small spaces.  A team like saints (dominant for the league) want an open and big pitch.  They work on this all week, one pass gets you away.  Saints have the right balance atm.  It’s not just about scoring, it’s about territory, control, set pieces, etc etc. 

 

I think there are times in the game that you have to manage, but ultimately we have to trust that they know more than fat Dave in row x about football.  Considerably more.  The “I’ve been watching saints for 30 years and I know my football” is the equivalent of someone who builds Lego over an engineer designing a bridge. The manager’s and coaches at this level on the whole are geniuses. 

I disagree.

And if our coaches are geniuses then so are the opposition's.

I am neither fat nor called Dave and am also a Chartered Engineer for what it's worth. 

In my view any advantage gained by playing pass the hot potato in our own penalty area is offset by the risk, probability even, of messing things up and handing the opposition a gilt-edged chance close to our own goal. It used to be a universally acknowledged maxim that you don't pass the ball across your own goal. It's a dad and in time it will died a natural death.

[Football Special]

2 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Mention in dispatches to Prowsey last night. Watched him for a lot of the game, and it was all about marshalling the players around him and using experience to set the tempo. Also the big German centre half didn’t put a foot wrong - we have a proper footballer there. 

Yep, JWP non-stop communication , it must help having a player with his experience giving guidance 

Will be interesting when Jander is available how we mix it up

Downes has avoided a booking for a few games now, I think he's still on 2 leagues yellows so we should avoid his 5 yellow suspension for a while (was worried he'd pick one up for the Pompey game but that looks clear now) 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Yep, JWP non-stop communication , it must help having a player with his experience giving guidance 

Will be interesting when Jander is available how we mix it up

Downes has avoided a booking for a few games now, I think he's still on 2 leagues yellows so we should avoid his 5 yellow suspension for a while (was worried he'd pick one up for the Pompey game but that looks clear now) 

still time for a straight Red Card 🫡

[davefizzy14]

We were totally dominate last night 😊 Our home form is formidable 😊 three great goals from Azaz, Cyle and Leo 😊 Leo my man of the match - unstoppable 😊 Downes is so good and a proper leader 😊 Prowsey, Azaz, Larin and Schlotterbeck were all great too 😊 everyone was. Tonda's win ratio is incredible, gem of a manager 😊

[hypochondriac]

Ihlas Bebou

[Toadhall Saint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ihlas Bebou

And they say auto correct is a pain. 😉

[Challenger]

36 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ihlas Bebou

Sorry to hear that, hope it clears up soon.

[Verbal]

40 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ihlas Bebou

Boba Fett

Edited 7 hours ago by Verbal
Mornington Crescent

[James G]

I thought we played well yesterday, again we saw the barebones of how we usually play and should play

Decision making was alot better but can still be even better. Keeping possession when we're leading still seems to be an issue and is something to work on. 

Based purely off the Forest forum, Abbot would probably be a better option over Wood longer term

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Ihlas Bebou

Wingardium Leviosa 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I disagree.

And if our coaches are geniuses then so are the opposition's.

I am neither fat nor called Dave and am also a Chartered Engineer for what it's worth. 

In my view any advantage gained by playing pass the hot potato in our own penalty area is offset by the risk, probability even, of messing things up and handing the opposition a gilt-edged chance close to our own goal. It used to be a universally acknowledged maxim that you don't pass the ball across your own goal. It's a dad and in time it will died a natural death.

I guess the counter argument would be that we've done it in 3 home games (not so much away) won all 3, scored 11 and conceded 3. I rest my case m'lud.

[Charlie Wayman]

4 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Mention in dispatches to Prowsey last night. Watched him for a lot of the game, and it was all about marshalling the players around him and using experience to set the tempo. Also the big German centre half didn’t put a foot wrong - we have a proper footballer there. 

He has a name actually, Schlotterbeck.

[saintstowin]

I haven't seen all of our games but it seemed like we went short more often yesterday. It also seemed like the Swansea press from goal kicks was like the start of a Gladiators game, ready to charge, which upped the tension while we all waited for the tap to the centreback.

What also upped the tension, for me, wasn't that we did it at all, but that we got caught or very nearly caught at a guess 50% of the time. Whether it was them actually getting the ball, it hitting them (was that the one straight after 3-1 when Peretz hit it at their striker?), or us kicking it away hurriedly.

We're all scarred (some with tissue damage I believe) by the RM era and generally we've been more sensible and progressive under Tonda in terms of playing out..But last night felt like we had decided to go a bit crazy with it. Hence I think the reported atmosphere.

We're a great passing team, Wood not so much, but we were lucky not to be punished yesterday. That doesn't mean never do it but we've got to think a bit better about when we go for that approach.

Edited 6 hours ago by saintstowin

[saintant]

1 minute ago, saintstowin said:

I haven't seen all of our games but it seemed like we went short more often yesterday. It also seemed like the Swansea press from goal kicks was like the start of a Gladiators game, ready to charge, which upped the tension while we all waited for the tap to the centreback.

What also upped the tension, for me, wasn't that we did it all, but that we got caught or very nearly caught at a guess 50% of the time. Whether it was them actually getting the ball, it hitting them (was that the one straight after 3-1 when Peretz hit it at their striker?), or us kicking it away hurriedly.

We're all scarred by the RM era and generally we've been more sensible and progressive under Tonda in terms of playing out..But last night felt like we had decided to go a bit crazy with it. Hence I think the reported atmosphere.

We're a great passing team, Wood not so much, but we were lucky not to be punished yesterday. They doesn't mean never do it but we've got to think a bit better about when we go for that approach.

Both Tonda and Azaz defended our tactic of playing out from the back. If done well the idea is that a single pass (Wood to Bree last night) can open the opposition and lead to chance creation which makes sense. They both said the fans need to trust the process and the players which is easier said than done when we are giving the ball away in dangerous areas. It's clear the tactic is going to continue so Tonda needs to drill the side relentlessly at Staplewood so that we get better at it.  We also need to realise when someone has been painted into a corner and, at that point, launch the ball as far as possible. Also Peretz needs to work on his part in this system because last night he was way off the levels required with his feet. 

[SouthWalesSaints]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I disagree.

And if our coaches are geniuses then so are the opposition's.

I am neither fat nor called Dave and am also a Chartered Engineer for what it's worth. 

In my view any advantage gained by playing pass the hot potato in our own penalty area is offset by the risk, probability even, of messing things up and handing the opposition a gilt-edged chance close to our own goal. It used to be a universally acknowledged maxim that you don't pass the ball across your own goal. It's a dad and in time it will died a natural death.

You're wrong.  You might not like to hear that, but you are.  Football isn't factual, but 90% of coaches that have succeeded at the top level play this way, why would the monopoly do it if it was so wrong?  Of course you have to do it without as much risk, we have improved dramatically under Tonda in doing this.  The last goal we conceded was against Hull (h) and we've controlled most games. 

 

However you articulate a response, it's fundamentally flawed by your general lack of understanding of why teams do it.   They have changed the rules to allow teams to pass to their players inside their own box hence why it's only just starting happening and didn't 10 years ago. 

 

Teams setup in rest positions, to counteract giving the ball away, we have yet to concede a single goal from doing it this season.  You can't determine the success in doing so, because you aren't going to score from many but you gain exponentially in other facets of the game.  We drew from Lincoln because we stopped doing it.  

[Ekelund24]

5 minutes ago, SouthWalesSaints said:

 

 

However you articulate a response, it's fundamentally flawed by your general lack of understanding of why teams do it.   They have changed the rules to allow teams to pass to their players inside their own box hence why it's only just starting happening and didn't 10 years ago. 

 

I don't think he meant at goal kicks I think he meant in general, in general play it is a considerably more risky pass than at goal kick when there is a 12 yard gap before the pass. 

I think the reason we struggled under Russell Martin was that he didn't allow the option of the long ball or the punt forward which can force the opposition backline back or at least make them think. With no long balls forward you could see how relaxed defences were that season and were always on the front foot which meant it was easier for them to engage when/if the ball got there!!

[so22saint]

59 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Wingardium Leviosa 

Raheem Stirling

[suewhistle]

2 hours ago, Verbal said:

Boba Fett

Guys, you don't half cook some difficult recipes; I can never get all the obscure ingredients..

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, so22saint said:

Raheem Stirling

Yeah, ideal target man to dove tail with Larin.

[SouthWalesSaints]

48 minutes ago, Ekelund24 said:

I don't think he meant at goal kicks I think he meant in general, in general play it is a considerably more risky pass than at goal kick when there is a 12 yard gap before the pass. 

I think the reason we struggled under Russell Martin was that he didn't allow the option of the long ball or the punt forward which can force the opposition backline back or at least make them think. With no long balls forward you could see how relaxed defences were that season and were always on the front foot which meant it was easier for them to engage when/if the ball got there!!

And I agree, you need to vary how you play.  Suck em in, play over em. etc 

But you'll notice what many teams do is artificially start as a goal kick in free play.  They'll play back to the keeper from a forward and crowded area, split centre half's wait for press and make the pitch bigger.  Rather than essentially play a keep ball 6v6 in 30 yards where you're very likely to lose the ball.  But in the final thirty yards the risk/reward changes as you have more chance of an artificial transition/counter press to break down a deep block and get in behind them.