Wrexham 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[East Kent Saint]

It could be worse,  especially if you were an Arsenal supporter 😄

Now Coventry making waves ....

[Zorba]

26 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s a man’s game FFS. 

[SouthWalesSaints]

Few points :

 

If Jander is fit, we play Azaz wide and pop in and extra CM. 
 

Matsuki doesn’t get done for the goal like fellows did.   
 

Whole bench is miles behind 11. Losing Stewart means we are crap last 30 when Larin dies a death.  
 

We’ll make playoffs. 

[Paul_B]

Thoroughly expected. Some of our results have flattered to deceive. Really poor in any circumstances to lose to that lot.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

Our three losses this season:

Watford

West Ham

Wrexham

Weird.

Wank

worrying 

woeful

wank again

 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

We might be cheats, but they really lack a bit of class.

 

[bangkoksaint]

9 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

We might be cheats, but they really lack a bit of class.

 

They don’t really though do they. It’s a bit of banter and fun. Sadly now days everyone wants to get upset over things instead of seeing what in many cases is lighthearted humour.

 

i was at the game today and take away the fact that it’s a poor ground it’s always a decent day out. They are welcoming, there’s no issues and what they have done for the city is fantastic because it’s an incredibly deprived area that needs all the help it can get. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

3 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

They don’t really though do they. It’s a bit of banter and fun. Sadly now days everyone wants to get upset over things instead of seeing what in many cases is lighthearted humour.

 

i was at the game today and take away the fact that it’s a poor ground it’s always a decent day out. They are welcoming, there’s no issues and what they have done for the city is fantastic because it’s an incredibly deprived area that needs all the help it can get. 

Who's upset?

[influx]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

Wank

worrying 

woeful

wank again

 

Cocaine is a powerful drug 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

I watched only the second half today; it was horrific.  What is worse is that it was most definitely not a one-off.  Earlier games this season, all of the aways and some of the homes, too, have exhibited the same problems:

1. An inability to close down opposition attackers, especially those out wide and looking to cross into our penalty area.  But also an inability to deal with those crosses once they arrive.  And an inability to pick-up opposition players centrally in or around the D of our penalty area.

2. A lack of cohesive defensive shape when we do not have the ball.  The complete contrast between us and our opponents is striking.  We often struggle to break through them; they break through us easily.  Even when we win.

3. Too slow getting the ball forward when we are not able to counter-attack an inferior team.  It is reminiscent of Russball but worse because we know how exciting this team can be under our present manager.  It has got to stop and soon because it hands the initiative to the other side.  The problem is worse when we are faced with either an effective aggressive press or no press at all.  Fannying around with the ball in our half is completely pointless if it does not draw the opponent out of shape.  We know from bitter experience that goals, not possession, win games.

4.  No urgency, an apparent lack of fitness, an apparent lack of desire and fight and a lack of physicality.  Far too often do we get bullied off the ball and beaten to a knock-down or loose ball.  As someone said earlier today, it’s a man’s game and too often we are second-best at it.

5  A gaping hole where Jander or Charles used to be or if Larin, Azaz or Scienza are off-form or off the pitch; the subs are not of the required standard.  JWP and Downs have impressed so far but should impose themselves more and drive the team forward more, not merely break up the play.

As I have said, this is not just a knee-jerk to today’s loss.  Our coaching staff need to get their act together.

When we get it right we look really impressive but too often we are ineffective and incredibly boring to watch.  Today’s second half saw us playing horrible football, not something I want to see again.  We have three weeks to put it right.  I really hope we do.

I have not written anything like this since our Championship season under Martin.  Eventually we secured promotion that time.  I am becoming less confident as the weeks go by that we shall do the same this season.  Let’s hope that I am wrong.

[Saint Fan CaM]

As others have said, we got little protection from the Ref when it mattered today. Edozie offers little to nothing…just useless. Manning had his usual rubbish game - both defensively with poor closing down and also going forwards not delivering balls into their pen area without hitting the first man. Our CB’s have at least one terrible error waiting to happen. 

Worst of all though - we don’t look fit across the team…stamina at a real low. Wrexham looked like thoroughbreds while we looked like NF ponies by comparison. We are looking like a decent mid-table team right now, that might get a shot at a play-off place if lucky.

[die Mannyschaft]

22 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

As others have said, we got little protection from the Ref when it mattered today. Edozie offers little to nothing…just useless. Manning had his usual rubbish game - both defensively with poor closing down and also going forwards not delivering balls into their pen area without hitting the first man. Our CB’s have at least one terrible error waiting to happen. 

Worst of all though - we don’t look fit across the team…stamina at a real low. Wrexham looked like thoroughbreds while we looked like NF ponies by comparison. We are looking like a decent mid-table team right now, that might get a shot at a play-off place if lucky.

We are very slow as a unit. If you look at the table as a netruel for easy weak non aggressive teams then Saints stand out, none of the others. I think its tge style we play, someone runs with ball but only Larin ahead, so stop 15 passes lose ball, start again maybe pass to winger same again or no one up front, lose ball. We don't need to be fit as we dont press high in case get caught out so sut back and do stupid passes on halfway line and get done. We are tge most disjointed team there's not match up in defensive,  midfield or anywhere . 

We would be better getting faster, stronger players next season and ditch possession walking football which creeps back each week. 

If we keep with walking possession and Tondo can only play one way the 8th and we won't beat many teams just a load of draws making up the points.

We take far too long to see a through ball and cant just blast a shot on edge box. Azaz what is his role, Fellows why is he running around with no purpose where is the link up play? Why are tge back players trying Brazilian to me to you passing wasting time? Larin up front with 2 defenders and no outlet.  Its all disjointed and waiting for a gap that rarely appears. We got 3 players that can compete and challenge and nothing on bench. 

Teams only need 3 chances all game to get 1 or 2 goals vs our 80% possession. We start with 10 as one constantly passes to opposition,  the 2 subs dont affect game so ready still 2 players down 9 v 11. 

Last rage is the constant passing on edge of box, just shoot. How does Azaz score v City at Wembley then just give ball away or fall over ball as he did today.

 

[Andy Hill]

Let’s all be honest. We are so short on quality then there is only going to be one outcome. The big question for me is why do we seem incapable of cutting out crosses ??

[MB]

Their winner was offside. Not excusing the performance at all but competent officiating we would have had a point 

[Maggie May]

We were better than them in every department but we shouldn’t be so nervy every time an opposition attacks. It feels weird watching us thinking we’re going to concede when our opponents come forward considering how good we are. 

[The Wyvern]

Why are we unable to keep a clean sheet? What’s letting us down here? 
 

I don’t think Wood is good enough, but it can’t just be him. 

[Harry_SFC]

39 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Why are we unable to keep a clean sheet? What’s letting us down here? 
 

I don’t think Wood is good enough, but it can’t just be him. 

There's a few things. Bree not playing to last seasons levels. Manning has always let the opposition get crosses in but now Bree seems to be doing it too. Despite JWP generally doing well he isn't as good as Jander at winning the ball back. Wood losing too many duels. 

[Challenger]

The number of easy passes that cause the recieving player to either stop or have to retrieve from behind is beyond belief.

[Charlie Wayman]

13 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Edozie shouldn’t even be in the squad.

He’s done nothing to justify playing, thrown his toys out the pram and now he makes the odd cameo to do nothing.

 

…and we let Robinson go out on loan.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, The Wyvern said:

Why are we unable to keep a clean sheet? What’s letting us down here? 
 

Not being able to cheat is probably a factor 

[Sarnia Cherie]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not being able to cheat is probably a factor 

The games we spied on last season we lost all 3 games.

[Graffito]

3 hours ago, MB said:

Their winner was offside. Not excusing the performance at all but competent officiating we would have had a point 

Difficult to see from down the other end and the highlights are inconclusive but the linesman missed a few clear offsides, especially first half.

[Graffito]

18 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not being able to cheat is probably a factor 

Give it a rest.

[Saint Gifford]

Wasn't at the game tbf. But wondering if we still have a hangover with Tonda.
 

I cant see improvement without starting again.
 

It’s a problem when January comes along and the players that have stayed that are good enough to go, think nows the time. 
 

i just cant see anything that tells me there is a promotion and a plan for Prem football next season. 
 

Probably because there isn't one. 

[AlexLaw76]

9 minutes ago, Graffito said:

Give it a rest.

If it was another club, we would be all over this. Unless you feel it had no influence what so ever last season 

[Midfield_General]

13 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

The games we spied on last season we lost all 3 games.

No we didn’t 

[saintant]

9 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

I watched only the second half today; it was horrific.  What is worse is that it was most definitely not a one-off.  Earlier games this season, all of the aways and some of the homes, too, have exhibited the same problems:

1. An inability to close down opposition attackers, especially those out wide and looking to cross into our penalty area.  But also an inability to deal with those crosses once they arrive.  And an inability to pick-up opposition players centrally in or around the D of our penalty area.

2. A lack of cohesive defensive shape when we do not have the ball.  The complete contrast between us and our opponents is striking.  We often struggle to break through them; they break through us easily.  Even when we win.

3. Too slow getting the ball forward when we are not able to counter-attack an inferior team.  It is reminiscent of Russball but worse because we know how exciting this team can be under our present manager.  It has got to stop and soon because it hands the initiative to the other side.  The problem is worse when we are faced with either an effective aggressive press or no press at all.  Fannying around with the ball in our half is completely pointless if it does not draw the opponent out of shape.  We know from bitter experience that goals, not possession, win games.

4.  No urgency, an apparent lack of fitness, an apparent lack of desire and fight and a lack of physicality.  Far too often do we get bullied off the ball and beaten to a knock-down or loose ball.  As someone said earlier today, it’s a man’s game and too often we are second-best at it.

5  A gaping hole where Jander or Charles used to be or if Larin, Azaz or Scienza are off-form or off the pitch; the subs are not of the required standard.  JWP and Downs have impressed so far but should impose themselves more and drive the team forward more, not merely break up the play.

As I have said, this is not just a knee-jerk to today’s loss.  Our coaching staff need to get their act together.

When we get it right we look really impressive but too often we are ineffective and incredibly boring to watch.  Today’s second half saw us playing horrible football, not something I want to see again.  We have three weeks to put it right.  I really hope we do.

I have not written anything like this since our Championship season under Martin.  Eventually we secured promotion that time.  I am becoming less confident as the weeks go by that we shall do the same this season.  Let’s hope that I am wrong.

Yet we have won 4, drawn 2 and lost 2 with a healthy goal difference of +9. We have scored 19 goals the second most behind West Ham and let in 10 which is the 5th best. Without the 4 point deduction we'd be sat 4th in the table. Go figure.

[obelisk]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Without the 4 point deduction we'd be sat 4th in the table

But we have the deduction and we're sat in mid-table with the coach under a cloud of uncertainty. That's the reality.

[AlexLaw76]

36 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

The games we spied on last season we lost all 3 games.

No we didn’t, and the games we admitted to. 
 

 

[Winnersaint]

Might as well give up then . No point to it anymore . No promotion, mid table Championship obscurity for ever. Stuck in football purgatory.

Edited 5 hours ago by Winnersaint

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, obelisk said:

But we have the deduction and we're sat in mid-table with the coach under a cloud of uncertainty. That's the reality.

Some people are missing the point that the -4 looks worse now and impacts more because we have only played 8 games. Over 46 games it has an effect but is far less onerous.

[The Wyvern]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

There's a few things. Bree not playing to last seasons levels. Manning has always let the opposition get crosses in but now Bree seems to be doing it too. Despite JWP generally doing well he isn't as good as Jander at winning the ball back. Wood losing too many duels. 

Thanks, good points.

Normally I’d suggest swapping out Wood for Abbot, see how that improves things, but not sure of having the skates at home is a good debut option for a CB. 

[Patrick Bateman]

I didn't think the match was that bad, but reading this thread I feel alone in that.  I actually thought we played some nice football at times, but we were slightly off the pace at times, i.e. second to some balls that we would usually win and a misplaced pass that we'd usually get right.  We were also not clinical in front of goal where we have been, especially at home.

All of these in my opinion point to tiredness, which you could see it in some players I thought. The international break has come round at the right time, except for Larin who I think could do with a proper break, but there we go. That leads me to my only criticism of the club - the horrific decision not to replace Stewart with someone more established that Mubama who is able to swap properly with Larin like that did last season. Larin had 7 goals in 7 games and unless something bizarre happens this season he's not going to get 46 goals in 46 games at this pace. 

[obelisk]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Some people are missing the point that the -4 looks worse now and impacts more because we have only played 8 games. Over 46 games it has an effect but is far less onerous.

Others are missing the point that the away form has garnered just 2 points from an available 12 against relatively modest opposition and that the home results have been a little flattering. Some might also look at the way Saints players were on their knees physically in the last 20 minutes yesterday and then wonder whether the squad is good enough once injuries and suspensions start to take a toll. Big game coming up next. Another "must win"?

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Others are missing the point that the away form has garnered just 2 points from an available 12 against relatively modest opposition and that the home results have been a little flattering. Some might also look at the way Saints players were on their knees physically in the last 20 minutes yesterday and then wonder whether the squad is good enough once injuries and suspensions start to take a toll. Big game coming up next. Another "must win"?

I agree our away form has been well short of what is required in terms of results but don't think we are that far off turning it around. Home form has not flattered us it's been comprehensive with 4 straight wins, goals scored 15, goals conceded 4 

[benjii]

One of those days. Far better team but didn't take chances. If we'd won by 3 goals it wouldn't have been a crazy result. 

[Jack]

We just seem to lack confidence and bottle away from home, and don’t seem to be working hard enough to grind it out. Shit ground, shit place, shit performance. Need to start keeping some clean sheets. Subs were garbage, I’d rather have one of the kids in the side over Edozie, he’s again proving why nobody wants him. Night out in Chester was the highlight 

[sfc4prem]

17 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

It's weak for team claiming to be chasing automatics. You're absolutely right, it will only get weaker if we don't go up. Nothing shocking about that.

What was our bench like when we got automatic promotion back in the 2011 season?

Once Jander comes back it will be even stronger. Think you might be expecting too much.

[BotleySaint]

46 minutes ago, benjii said:

One of those days. Far better team but didn't take chances. If we'd won by 3 goals it wouldn't have been a crazy result. 

We create a lot of chances so may be a slightly causal attitude is creeping in about missing them? They expect another one will come along shortly. But of course eventually you've got to take them! 

A bit more conviction with every chance. I think we'll learn from yesterday. But we are still worryingly short on alternative goalscorers if its not going well.

[Disco Stu]

33 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

What was our bench like when we got automatic promotion back in the 2011 season?

Once Jander comes back it will be even stronger. Think you might be expecting too much.

The Championship is a significantly stronger, faster, and tactically superior league than it was 15 years ago. That 2011 team wouldn't win automatic promotion in this year's Championship so I consider that a moot point.

Edited 3 hours ago by Disco Stu

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, BotleySaint said:

We create a lot of chances so may be a slightly causal attitude is creeping in about missing them? They expect another one will come along shortly. But of course eventually you've got to take them! 

A bit more conviction with every chance. I think we'll learn from yesterday. But we are still worryingly short on alternative goalscorers if its not going well.

2nd half of last season we had a fairly fit Ross Stewart to rotate with Larin.

This time we do not. I thought Larin was not great (it happens) and feel we are lacking in that department.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Some people are missing the point that the -4 looks worse now and impacts more because we have only played 8 games. Over 46 games it has an effect but is far less onerous.

Less than 0.1 of a point per game.

[Football Special]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not being able to cheat is probably a factor 

Get a life and stop trolling 

[RedArmy]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I didn't think the match was that bad, but reading this thread I feel alone in that.  I actually thought we played some nice football at times, but we were slightly off the pace at times, i.e. second to some balls that we would usually win and a misplaced pass that we'd usually get right.  We were also not clinical in front of goal where we have been, especially at home.

All of these in my opinion point to tiredness, which you could see it in some players I thought. The international break has come round at the right time, except for Larin who I think could do with a proper break, but there we go. That leads me to my only criticism of the club - the horrific decision not to replace Stewart with someone more established that Mubama who is able to swap properly with Larin like that did last season. Larin had 7 goals in 7 games and unless something bizarre happens this season he's not going to get 46 goals in 46 games at this pace. 

He has to give Mubama more minutes, he isn’t going to improve sitting on the bench until the 86th minute. 
 

He’s only had 122 minutes on the pitch so far and he’s got 1 goal and 1 assist. 
 

I know Tonda was vocal about wanting Stewart back and he’s probably frustrated to not have him, but it’s done now, use what you’ve got. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

57 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

We create a lot of chances so may be a slightly causal attitude is creeping in about missing them? They expect another one will come along shortly. But of course eventually you've got to take them! 

A bit more conviction with every chance. I think we'll learn from yesterday. But we are still worryingly short on alternative goalscorers if its not going well.

Yes it did seem that way yesterday. Not as clear cut chances as Swansea at home last season.

Maybe does need Tonda to switch it a little? 

Couple that with what others have pointed out, with it being too easy for opposition to get down the wings and crossing it in it doesn't bode well.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, RedArmy said:

He has to give Mubama more minutes, he isn’t going to improve sitting on the bench until the 86th minute. 
 

He’s only had 122 minutes on the pitch so far and he’s got 1 goal and 1 assist. 
 

I know Tonda was vocal about wanting Stewart back and he’s probably frustrated to not have him, but it’s done now, use what you’ve got. 

Fair point. I was surprised how late Mubama came on. 

[Oh no Mick Mills]

3 hours ago, Jack said:

We just seem to lack confidence and bottle away from home, and don’t seem to be working hard enough to grind it out. Shit ground, shit place, shit performance. Need to start keeping some clean sheets. Subs were garbage, I’d rather have one of the kids in the side over Edozie, he’s again proving why nobody wants him. Night out in Chester was the highlight 

I'd love to see Akechuckwu come off the bench instead of Edozie.

He looked promising but seems to have disappeared . 

[Pamplemousse]

Yeah we need to move on from Edozie. Another awful Sport Republic purchase.