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Thread: Villa build up

  1. #51

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    A couple of things will happen here.
    If Villa have a striker who’s not scored in a decade then his luck is in on Saturday.
    We will huff and puff and look decent but a lapse at the back means Villa will score at least one.
    It will not end in a draw.
    Ings will be the only player who will score for us.
    Ralph will put on three strikers in Obefemi, Djenapo and Adams who between them will score or create nothing.
    The fans will do the usual until things don’t go right.
    That Heisenberg guy will tell us about how he won more money on betting against Saints. PS does he celebrate when we lose?

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchards View Post
    A couple of things will happen here.
    If Villa have a striker who’s not scored in a decade then his luck is in on Saturday.
    We will huff and puff and look decent but a lapse at the back means Villa will score at least one.
    It will not end in a draw.
    Ings will be the only player who will score for us.
    Ralph will put on three strikers in Obefemi, Djenapo and Adams who between them will score or create nothing.
    The fans will do the usual until things don’t go right.
    That Heisenberg guy will tell us about how he won more money on betting against Saints. PS does he celebrate when we lose?
    Thats true enough about a striker who hasnt scored in a decade. If we want Che to start scoring at SMS then we should loan him out to villa for the game this weekend. No doubt he would break his duck.

  3. #53

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    Villa are such a one man team it is untrue. Grealish has been truly outstanding, but take him out of the game and they really have very little else. So why do we not go a bit old fashioned and stick a proper man marker on him, follow him literally everywhere he goes, give him zero time? Nullify there only big threat? Got to be someone who doesn't dive in and can get about the pitch quickly as well, as Grealish is very good on the ball. You just don't see a man marker in modern football anymore.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadge View Post
    Villa are such a one man team it is untrue. Grealish has been truly outstanding, but take him out of the game and they really have very little else. So why do we not go a bit old fashioned and stick a proper man marker on him, follow him literally everywhere he goes, give him zero time? Nullify there only big threat? Got to be someone who doesn't dive in and can get about the pitch quickly as well, as Grealish is very good on the ball. You just don't see a man marker in modern football anymore.
    Problem with this is he is the most fouled player in the PL, he's great at drawing a foul even if there's minimal contact, whoever was marking him would end up with a yellow after 15 mins and be on a tightrope the rest of the match

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattio View Post
    Problem with this is he is the most fouled player in the PL, he's great at drawing a foul even if there's minimal contact, whoever was marking him would end up with a yellow after 15 mins and be on a tightrope the rest of the match
    Romeu is an expert at the early yellow card. Maybe we should start him!

  6. #56

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    Grealish is a brilliant player.
    One of the best players in the league at the moment IMO. Should be in the England side ahead of Alli, Mount, Maddison......suspect he wont be though.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Grealish is a brilliant player.
    One of the best players in the league at the moment IMO. Should be in the England side ahead of Alli, Mount, Maddison......suspect he wont be though.
    Will be at Spurs next season is my guess

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT View Post
    Will be at Spurs next season is my guess
    From a PoV of appreciating a top player, I hope he does not go to man united (unless a top Manager is employed). If Ole remains at the wheel, Grealish might as well retire at if he signs for them

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    It's all very well criticising the forwards but if the back four pass it around they end up with nothing to press for, outnumbered and feeding off scraps. Djenepo needs a kick up the backside, the number of times he was fed the ball wide with space behind the defender and not yet double banked turned back and played a nothing ball inside closing the attack off.
    He needs to take the full back on and go for it. Instead of us pressing under pressure defenders we were outnumbered and pressed, that has to stop. Ralph has to step in and stop it the second we start to pass it around at the back.
    You know that this is a deliberate tactic? We intend to pass it between the defenders because Stephens in particular is seen as a key player in picking out long balls forward. You might not like it, but if you want us to stop doing it you will disappointed, unless you want us to change the entire way we play.

    I agree that at times it looks like a ridiculous tactic, especially when Vestergaard - who is actually half decent on the ball and at passing, hence Ralph's comments - decides to have his usual brain fade moment (reminds me of Hoedt in that regard actually), but there are also numerous occasions where it has paid off. But of course when you get caught out playing that way it's obvious and when it works it isn't, because you tend not to remember the 5 short passes between centre backs before the crucial assist.

    I think that's one of the areas where our fans get understandably frustrated but with a bit more appreciation of and patience with the approach might end up holding back on the groans.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    You know that this is a deliberate tactic? We intend to pass it between the defenders because Stephens in particular is seen as a key player in picking out long balls forward. You might not like it, but if you want us to stop doing it you will disappointed, unless you want us to change the entire way we play.

    I agree that at times it looks like a ridiculous tactic, especially when Vestergaard - who is actually half decent on the ball and at passing, hence Ralph's comments - decides to have his usual brain fade moment (reminds me of Hoedt in that regard actually), but there are also numerous occasions where it has paid off. But of course when you get caught out playing that way it's obvious and when it works it isn't, because you tend not to remember the 5 short passes between centre backs before the crucial assist.

    I think that's one of the areas where our fans get understandably frustrated but with a bit more appreciation of and patience with the approach might end up holding back on the groans.
    I used to enjoy watching Fonte and van Dijk in the pre-match warmups, passing the ball to each other from opposite sides of the pitch. Their accuracy was phenomenal. Not one pass ever went astray. It was almost as good as when Le Tissier stood on the halfway line and bounced the ball back to himself off the crossbar.

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordic Saint View Post
    I used to enjoy watching Fonte and van Dijk in the pre-match warmups, passing the ball to each other from opposite sides of the pitch. Their accuracy was phenomenal. Not one pass ever went astray. It was almost as good as when Le Tissier stood on the halfway line and bounced the ball back to himself off the crossbar.
    Yeah I watched Paul Telfer and Matt Oakley do it too. Most professional footballers can. Picking the right ball at the right time while being closed down in the match is slightly different though. Not quite sure what point you're making...?

    Le Tissier may have done that on occasion but you make it sound like a regular thing - I don't remember seeing it and saw the pre-match warm up of virtually every home game during Le Tissier's career...

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Hoping he opts for Engels just to even up the defensive hilarities
    Very much hoping for this.

    If Engels plays, he'll get top Marx from me. It would be just Kapital if he does play, as he's got more errors in him than Vestergaard.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    You know that this is a deliberate tactic? We intend to pass it between the defenders because Stephens in particular is seen as a key player in picking out long balls forward. You might not like it, but if you want us to stop doing it you will disappointed, unless you want us to change the entire way we play.

    I agree that at times it looks like a ridiculous tactic, especially when Vestergaard - who is actually half decent on the ball and at passing, hence Ralph's comments - decides to have his usual brain fade moment (reminds me of Hoedt in that regard actually), but there are also numerous occasions where it has paid off. But of course when you get caught out playing that way it's obvious and when it works it isn't, because you tend not to remember the 5 short passes between centre backs before the crucial assist.

    I think that's one of the areas where our fans get understandably frustrated but with a bit more appreciation of and patience with the approach might end up holding back on the groans.
    Can't have it both ways. Ralph says he wants the ball forward quickly, puts in Vestergaard because he allegedly can carry the ball forward, Stephens can but Vestergaard didnt. We are not a combination passing team like Man City or Arsenal under Arteta. If we pass it around at the back we are back to the early season results. Get it forward quickly and we break through regularly, pass it around and we get crowded out and lose.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    1-2 to Spurs. Vestergaard needs to be left out. The back 4 plus McCarthy need a rocket from Ralph to cut out the sideways and backwards. We need to play high tempo as away and no way diverge from that.
    This

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    Can't have it both ways. Ralph says he wants the ball forward quickly, puts in Vestergaard because he allegedly can carry the ball forward, Stephens can but Vestergaard didnt. We are not a combination passing team like Man City or Arsenal under Arteta. If we pass it around at the back we are back to the early season results. Get it forward quickly and we break through regularly, pass it around and we get crowded out and lose.
    Yeah but we can't do that at home because the other team sits deep, so we don't have an opportunity to counter. The reason we pass it round at the back is to try and draw the other team onto us and create more space to knock the ball into. We encourage the other team to press so that we can exploit the gaps they leave. I agree with you that we're not very good at it, and perhaps we shouldn't be doing it! But the tactic of the defenders keeping the ball is explicitly part of "getting it forward quickly" - because if you simply want us to get the ball forward asap, you're calling for aimless long balls and I don't think anyone really wants us to do that.

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Yeah but we can't do that at home because the other team sits deep, so we don't have an opportunity to counter. The reason we pass it round at the back is to try and draw the other team onto us and create more space to knock the ball into. We encourage the other team to press so that we can exploit the gaps they leave. I agree with you that we're not very good at it, and perhaps we shouldn't be doing it! But the tactic of the defenders keeping the ball is explicitly part of "getting it forward quickly" - because if you simply want us to get the ball forward asap, you're calling for aimless long balls and I don't think anyone really wants us to do that.
    Correct, it’s why it’s so important for us to score first to get the other team out of their half and create space. What happens at the moment is the opposite, we leave gaps, make a mistake and are often punished for it.

  17. #67

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    We usually win 3 or 4-0 so no worries at all. Routine match, bang 'em in.. end of.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Yeah but we can't do that at home because the other team sits deep, so we don't have an opportunity to counter. The reason we pass it round at the back is to try and draw the other team onto us and create more space to knock the ball into. We encourage the other team to press so that we can exploit the gaps they leave. I agree with you that we're not very good at it, and perhaps we shouldn't be doing it! But the tactic of the defenders keeping the ball is explicitly part of "getting it forward quickly" - because if you simply want us to get the ball forward asap, you're calling for aimless long balls and I don't think anyone really wants us to do that.
    It doesn't matter how long we pass it around at the back because our opponents game plan is the defence and midfield not to come out. The longer we pass it around the more efficient their compacting becomes and the less space available. The only time we have to get at these teams, is as soon as we win the ball. That is probably the only time when their defenders are vulnerable. Delay and our high pressing, high tempo has gone. We are now just probing slowly backwards and sideways denied space and creating nothing.

    We can't just keep saying it won't work, because we can't keep playing the way we are as we have the worst home record in the division. If teams want to play that way, we should not allow them the comfort of seeing their gameplan working, as our centre backs often get themselves and the keeper in a mess, often ending with losing the ball in dangerous positions or McCarthy making a poor clearance.

    Liverpool regularly launch early long balls up to the strikers, they also have no problem in hitting long clearances if under pressure. We rarely do either. I'm not just advocating long balls but I am advocating instant forward passing and movement as soon as we have the ball. We can't play from the back slowly and win against these teams.

  19. #69

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    We have six home games left, of which 4 are very winnable, only need 3 to get to 40 points and safety - Come on lads just do the business quickly and stop pussy footing around so we can relax and enjoy the end of the season - we should get to 52 points in reality.

  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriansfc View Post
    He's good but we already beat them comfortably, and he often sets up people who spurn chances.

    I'd switch it up a bit for this one. Proper full home prem game for Adams to see if he can do anything. Prefer Long from the bench for this one.

    KWP Bednarek Stephens Bertrand
    JWP Hojbjerg
    Armstrong Boufal
    Ings Adams
    TBF I think it would be dodgy to play without a keeper

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    It doesn't matter how long we pass it around at the back because our opponents game plan is the defence and midfield not to come out. The longer we pass it around the more efficient their compacting becomes and the less space available. The only time we have to get at these teams, is as soon as we win the ball. That is probably the only time when their defenders are vulnerable. Delay and our high pressing, high tempo has gone. We are now just probing slowly backwards and sideways denied space and creating nothing.

    We can't just keep saying it won't work, because we can't keep playing the way we are as we have the worst home record in the division. If teams want to play that way, we should not allow them the comfort of seeing their gameplan working, as our centre backs often get themselves and the keeper in a mess, often ending with losing the ball in dangerous positions or McCarthy making a poor clearance.

    Liverpool regularly launch early long balls up to the strikers, they also have no problem in hitting long clearances if under pressure. We rarely do either. I'm not just advocating long balls but I am advocating instant forward passing and movement as soon as we have the ball. We can't play from the back slowly and win against these teams.
    Agree that if the opposition are out of position then we shouldn't delay, but I'm sure most of our defensive passing happens when they are in position. JRM mentions possibly the most important thing in all this - don't concede the first goal. Of course it's a bit of a paradox because the opposition sits deep, we are forced to play it around, our defenders make a mess of it and we concede, and now there's even less reason for the away team to attack... but IF we were to score first we'd probably see a lot more of the style we have seen in our away matches. Liverpool can probably do it because they have the lead so the opposition have no option but to attack, and then leave space in behind, not to mention the quality of their players of course!

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfahaji View Post
    Agree that if the opposition are out of position then we shouldn't delay, but I'm sure most of our defensive passing happens when they are in position. JRM mentions possibly the most important thing in all this - don't concede the first goal. Of course it's a bit of a paradox because the opposition sits deep, we are forced to play it around, our defenders make a mess of it and we concede, and now there's even less reason for the away team to attack... but IF we were to score first we'd probably see a lot more of the style we have seen in our away matches. Liverpool can probably do it because they have the lead so the opposition have no option but to attack, and then leave space in behind, not to mention the quality of their players of course!
    I think it's the fact our defenders aren't looking for the quick forward pass, dwell on the ball for seconds and then see the scenario in front closing us down so to buy themselves time and avoid making a ball into the channels and in their eyes risk losing it pass to the other centre back who now sees nothing so passes it back to the other centre back and so it goes on. The way forward is to immediately make the first pass forward after we win the ball, or to a wide forward or straight into the channels for one of the strikers to attack. If McCarthy has it dead or in his hands launch it towards Long, whichever channel he is in. Winning the breaking ball is the key after the long ball.

    We can't just carry on doing the same things that are losing us games at home. We have to make life difficult for the opposition. We know what their plan is so we need to batter it to bits not just submit to it.
    Last edited by derry; 18-02-2020 at 02:10 PM.

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Grealish is a brilliant player.
    One of the best players in the league at the moment IMO. Should be in the England side ahead of Alli, Mount, Maddison......suspect he wont be though.
    Way better than Dele Ali in the game last night.

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadge View Post
    Villa are such a one man team it is untrue. Grealish has been truly outstanding, but take him out of the game and they really have very little else. So why do we not go a bit old fashioned and stick a proper man marker on him, follow him literally everywhere he goes, give him zero time? Nullify there only big threat? Got to be someone who doesn't dive in and can get about the pitch quickly as well, as Grealish is very good on the ball. You just don't see a man marker in modern football anymore.
    To be seen soon on Villa's website?: "Southampton are such a one man team it is untrue. Ings has been truly outstanding, but take him out of the game and they really have very little else ... etc" True?

    Well it isn't quite. Provided Redmond, Boufal, Bednarek, JPR and Armstrong are fit. The whole team have to up their game if we are going to win this. We just can't have any more inept home performances.

  25. #75

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    Just hope the weather improves because team has failed to adapt to conditions anytime there's a hint of bad weather.

  26. #76

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    Boufal is in training, which is good news.

  27. #77

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    Liverpool last night came up against the same problem we have been having at home. They had 73% possession against a compact ten players all pressing and holding their shape. Liverpool used the possession to try and play through without success. 8 shots, 0 on target. AM had 27% possesssion 7 shots, 2 on target and scored fron their first corner. After that it was up hill all the way for Liverpool. They were unable to break the AM lines successfully and when they got close they were crowded out.

    Possession just isn't the answer to teams that refuse to play and just back off. Arguably the best team in the world on current form found that out. I'd be surprised if AM didn't look to play the same in the second leg. It will be interesting to see whether Liverpool continue to try and pass their way through using their undoubted talent or try something different.
    They may well opt for more of the same hoping that home advantage will enable them to score the goals necessary.

  28. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Grealish is a brilliant player.
    One of the best players in the league at the moment IMO. Should be in the England side ahead of Alli, Mount, Maddison......suspect he wont be though.
    Put Jwp on him and he'll be anonymous.

  29. Default

    Guys, be careful what you write on here. MSN are reading what we write and telling the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/championship-standard-at-best-what-southampton-fans-really-think-of-aston-villa/ar-BB109pfa?ocid=spartandhp

    Direct quotes from this thread. You heard Dycke say the program notes wound up Burnley players. Now our boasting could fuel Villa.



  30. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the saint in winchester View Post
    Guys, be careful what you write on here. MSN are reading what we write and telling the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/championship-standard-at-best-what-southampton-fans-really-think-of-aston-villa/ar-BB109pfa?ocid=spartandhp

    Direct quotes from this thread. You heard Dycke say the program notes wound up Burnley players. Now our boasting could fuel Villa.




    Some of those were clearly sarcastic but the dumb brummies just lifted them and posted it.

  31. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by the saint in winchester View Post
    Guys, be careful what you write on here. MSN are reading what we write and telling the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/championship-standard-at-best-what-southampton-fans-really-think-of-aston-villa/ar-BB109pfa?ocid=spartandhp

    Direct quotes from this thread. You heard Dycke say the program notes wound up Burnley players. Now our boasting could fuel Villa.


    Indeed it is a cautionary tale as everything you post on-line can be read and used by anybody, anywhere. It is always worth bearing in mind that comments made on the internet can come back to haunt you. I note that the msn link included my own comment on the outcome of Saturday's match, which is fine as I stick by it

  32. #82

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    I think we'll win, maybe comfortably.

    Two reasons, one since our turn around when we have had a disappointing result/performance, Ralph seems to have kicked them up the arse and we have been much better the next game (and he has a full week of training to do that).

    When we were bad at home to West Ham we bounced back and were very good against Villa then Chelsea, when we threw it away against Wolves we bounced back against Palace.

    Secondly Villa don't have the mentality, discipline and personnel to play like Burnley did, if Villa want to beat us, I think they are going to have to play and attack us, not just defend 90 minutes, too many mistakes in them, too many attack minded players.

    Which will suit us.

    Grealish is good and a threat, but we have one of the most in form strikers in the league, against one of the worst defences, so IMO they have more to worry about.

    Also whilst Grealish is massively important to them, the loss of John McGinn has been massive for them, he was very important in how they played and how he linked their team together.

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusic View Post
    Boufal is in training, which is good news.
    Nice I think this could be a big time for boufal’s saints career In general I think he’s been pretty good this season. With redmond put it could be a last ditch chance to cement himself into the side finally. I still think he is our best creative outlet and better then redmond and djenepo but he needs to convince Ralph not me..

  34. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpin4rizeal View Post
    Nice I think this could be a big time for boufal’s saints career In general I think he’s been pretty good this season. With redmond put it could be a last ditch chance to cement himself into the side finally. I still think he is our best creative outlet and better then redmond and djenepo but he needs to convince Ralph not me..
    Boufal is a class act ...Should be playing in a proper no 10 just behind ings in my opinion ..

  35. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pimpin4rizeal View Post
    Nice I think this could be a big time for boufal’s saints career In general I think he’s been pretty good this season. With redmond put it could be a last ditch chance to cement himself into the side finally. I still think he is our best creative outlet and better then redmond and djenepo but he needs to convince Ralph not me..
    His 65 minutes v Spurs and the 30 v Burnley were as good as I've seen him play for Saints. Full of energy, great touch, good crosses, nice link up in dangerous areas and a willingness to press and harass without the ball. Ralph must have noticed all that, which just leaves the question mark (in Ralph's mind) about SB as a 90 minute player.

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by the saint in winchester View Post
    Guys, be careful what you write on here. MSN are reading what we write and telling the world.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/championship-standard-at-best-what-southampton-fans-really-think-of-aston-villa/ar-BB109pfa?ocid=spartandhp

    Direct quotes from this thread. You heard Dycke say the program notes wound up Burnley players. Now our boasting could fuel Villa.


    Will I get paid for my insight?

  37. #87

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    They are pretty **** across the entire park aside from Grealish.

    Luckily for them the park will be St Mary's, where we are completely garbage.

    So obviously they'll win. Probably comfortably.

  38. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpin4rizeal View Post
    Nice I think this could be a big time for boufal’s saints career In general I think he’s been pretty good this season. With redmond put it could be a last ditch chance to cement himself into the side finally. I still think he is our best creative outlet and better then redmond and djenepo but he needs to convince Ralph not me..
    I fear we will lose him in the close season 'though. Use him or lose him. OK he gets paid well but time moves on and the lad wants and should have regular game time to show his talent. If he can't get it here there will be plenty of suitors in the PL to gave him chance; Palace, Villa & WHU come to mind. Sofiane is an incredible talent but there is something about him that RH seems not to like.

    Beats me as he is the only creative player we have who can beat his man on both sides. The way the ball sticks to his feet in a melee of players trying to stop him amazes me and OH that goal against WBA!

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Will I get paid for my insight?

    If you get enough 'likes', sure. Who knows you might make a nice living at it ;-)

  40. #90

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    Walker-Peters out injured with a calf problem

  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    If you get enough 'likes', sure. Who knows you might make a nice living at it ;-)
    quite happy to talk sh1t about opposing teams, well about anything really. I think it is what the internet is crying out for

  42. #92

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    Let’s hope JWP can do a job on Grealish as he did on Zaha. I suspect not though. 2-1 villa.

  43. #93

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    This is a must not lose IMO. A draw would not be a bad result.

  44. #94

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    KwP, Redmond, Boufal out for this one

  45. #95

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    Injury update looks terrible for this one. But don't waste JWP and right back. Either him or Armstrong wing back, Villa's attack is fairly rubbish and we can get the wing backs forward. Best hope without Redmond and Boufal to create anything.

    McCarthy
    Stephens Bednarek Bertrand
    JWP Romeu Hojbjerg Djenepo
    Armstrong
    Ings Long

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusic View Post
    This is a must not lose IMO. A draw would not be a bad result.
    I would take a loss here and a win at West ham over the opposite, or two draws.

  47. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriansfc View Post

    McCarthy
    Stephens Bednarek Bertrand
    JWP Romeu Hojbjerg Djenepo
    Armstrong
    Ings Long
    Doubt we'll go three at the back again having had such an upturn in results with a back four.

    Probable xi: McCarthy; Valery, Stephens, Bednarek, Bertrand; Hojbjerg, Prowse; Armstrong, Djenepo; Long, Ings.


    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

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    Posts
    700

    Default

    Given that Grealish plays wide left, I think I would go.

    Mc Carthy
    Stehphens Bednareck Vestegard Bertrand
    Romeu PEH
    Armstrong Djenepo

    Ings Long

    I still rate Valery, but he is better going forward than marking , so nullify their main threat

  49. #99

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Winchester, Hampshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Rail replacement buses from Winchester this weekend, will make travelling down fun

  50. #100

    Default

    Don't know why people keep wanting us to play Long against teams that sit back. Understandable away from home or at home against the big clubs but he offers nothing in games like these.

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