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Koeman makes his mark - nice one


alpine_saint

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How do you make that out ???

 

Do we want to keep Shaw or don't we ?

 

If we DO want to keep him, we say He's NOT for sale. End of

 

If we ARE willing to sell, we say we want £XX Million for him, which is what we HAVE done

 

So as we haven't said "He's not for sale " we ARE in the market to SELL

 

Big Difference in Policy

 

( Cue C B Fry .... if he's not gone to school yet )

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How do you make that out ???

 

Do we want to keep Shaw or don't we ?

 

If we DO want to keep him, we say He's NOT for sale. End of

 

If we ARE willing to sell, we say we want £XX Million for him, which is what we HAVE done

 

So as we haven't said "He's not for sale " we ARE in the market to SELL

 

Big Difference in Policy

 

( Cue C B Fry .... if he's not gone to school yet )

 

he he is effectively priced out of the market, however if someone is mental enough to meet the demand, we will have received an offer that we would be mental to refuse.

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How do you make that out ???

 

Do we want to keep Shaw or don't we ?

 

If we DO want to keep him, we say He's NOT for sale. End of

 

If we ARE willing to sell, we say we want £XX Million for him, which is what we HAVE done

 

So as we haven't said "He's not for sale " we ARE in the market to SELL

 

Big Difference in Policy

 

( Cue C B Fry .... if he's not gone to school yet )

 

Life doesn't really work like that though. Everyone has his price. I think even you would agree that (ridiculous amount say) £200M (not £40m, which means 40 milli-pounds) would be a lunatic figure to pay, bu when you state that they might come back wth the money or shuffle off mumbling into their beards. "Not for sale" just gets "£30m?" in response.

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Encouraging from Koeman and the club if that's the stance. I can remember Saggy at West Ham constantly driving up the price for Rio Ferdinand and the collective press shrieking 'nobody will pay that!!!' - but they did. Saints are effectively saying make us an offer we can't refuse, and that'll do me...

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"For all Shaw's talent it is an astonishing price to ask for a left back who is still learning his trade, and has yet to play a competitive international."

 

What the Daily Mail don't appear to have grasped is that valuation is set by the selling club, not by the buying club and certainly not by the media. He may not be worth £40m to Utd, or to the Daily Mail, but if he's worth that to Saints, that is frankly all that matters. And it shouldn't be astonishing.

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I'd gladly take hernandez and £25m for shaw. Goals are the hardest thing to come by in this league. Targett is supposed to be good and we'd find another LB. Just have to make the best of it wont we.

 

This all day long and you could get Neil Taylor, Cresswell or Timothee (the French lad) for 5m if Targett's not ready

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The key point so many are missing is the VALUE of Luke Shaw to Saints - not the price tag. He offers a clear link between the Academy and the senior team and is experienced enough to hold some gravitas with the younger players. Not only that, but growing a team that has synergy is vital to what the club wants to achieve. If you only concentrate on 'big' names and don't play enough importance on TEAM then you will ultimately fail - for evidence of this Google 'Englands 2014 World Cup'.

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Utd have nobody to blame but themselves for this. It seems to be common knowledge they have a huge kitty this summer why shouldn't we get well over the odds for him. £40m and Hernandez will do it

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If this deal goes ahead or fails, the message is key if we are to become a 'different' proposition than other medium sized Prem clubs like Villa, WBA, Swansea et al. The message being that if you are prepared to destabilise our team and publically covet our assets you will ultimately have to pay through the nose and meet (perhaps an inflated) valuation to secure them. If KL sees SFC as a long term upwardly mobile investment, going forward this will be crucial in communicating to players, parents, agents, and other clubs the likely path of negotiation and highlight the 'Southampton way' of dealing with disruptive enquiries.

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If we get anything north of £30m for a LB we've pulled their pants down big time.

 

sorry but cant be so bullish - it does not matter whether we get 10 mil or 40 mil really, unless we can attract or bring through a LB that is equal or better than Shaw, we will be weaker in that position... and as we have seen, being able to defend and attack through both flanks plays big part in success - we saw it with Bridge and Marsden, and its why decent LBs are so desirable and expensive.

 

Yes we can buy more players, but we can only put 11 on the pitch and so if we do not have as good an LB next season, the side is weaker whatever cash is available. We are also a club that will struggle to attract players of equal quality... IF we are serious about progressing and building on last season, we don't sell 18 year old talent and think we did well screwing Man Utd... they will be the ones laughing knowing they can get 10 years + at less than 4 mil a season, or sell later and get all their money back and possibly more.... and have had maybe 5-6 years of his talent...

 

It amy be inevitable that we cant hold on to these players, but kidding ourselves that if get 'decent' money, its OK, and yet remain a progressive and developing club is naive

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Difficult to take the report too seriously given the source, but it's not an Ashton piece so perhaps it's not so tainted? Who knows.

 

 

Always the Daily Mail though isn't it. Our tame press outlet. If the price is really 40 million then he'll be with us next season, no manager in his right mind will pay, or recommend paying to his board, 40 million for Shaw. Utd have Evra for one more season at least, Evra is a top top LB so they get a stand in for 8/10 million and tell us to f*ck off.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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sorry but cant be so bullish - it does not matter whether we get 10 mil or 40 mil really, unless we can attract or bring through a LB that is equal or better than Shaw, we will be weaker in that position... and as we have seen, being able to defend and attack through both flanks plays big part in success - we saw it with Bridge and Marsden, and its why decent LBs are so desirable and expensive.

 

Yes we can buy more players, but we can only put 11 on the pitch and so if we do not have as good an LB next season, the side is weaker whatever cash is available. We are also a club that will struggle to attract players of equal quality... IF we are serious about progressing and building on last season, we don't sell 18 year old talent and think we did well screwing Man Utd... they will be the ones laughing knowing they can get 10 years + at less than 4 mil a season, or sell later and get all their money back and possibly more.... and have had maybe 5-6 years of his talent...

 

It amy be inevitable that we cant hold on to these players, but kidding ourselves that if get 'decent' money, its OK, and yet remain a progressive and developing club is naive

 

We are a selling club. We all are outside the very elite so the job our board has is to screw every penny we can out of the buying club and sell on our terms only.

 

It sends out a clear and strong message to football; We decide when and how much and if you won't pay it the player doesn't leave. End of.

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Always the Daily Mail though isn't it. Our tame press outlet. If the price is really 40 million then he'll be with us next season, no manager in his right mind will pay, or recommend paying to his board, 40 million for Shaw.

 

Koeman wants to keep him as Shaw is perfect for the system Koeman wants to play with us, but he has said that if Van Gaal (whom he dislikes) wants to buy Shaw then he can pay us well over the odds. That would allow Koeman to go in for Blinds or similar offset wages or similar and possibly still come back with quite a bit of change. If not then great, the lads value is only likely to go up.

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sorry but cant be so bullish - it does not matter whether we get 10 mil or 40 mil really, unless we can attract or bring through a LB that is equal or better than Shaw, we will be weaker in that position... and as we have seen, being able to defend and attack through both flanks plays big part in success - we saw it with Bridge and Marsden, and its why decent LBs are so desirable and expensive.

 

Yes we can buy more players, but we can only put 11 on the pitch and so if we do not have as good an LB next season, the side is weaker whatever cash is available. We are also a club that will struggle to attract players of equal quality... IF we are serious about progressing and building on last season, we don't sell 18 year old talent and think we did well screwing Man Utd... they will be the ones laughing knowing they can get 10 years + at less than 4 mil a season, or sell later and get all their money back and possibly more.... and have had maybe 5-6 years of his talent...

 

It amy be inevitable that we cant hold on to these players, but kidding ourselves that if get 'decent' money, its OK, and yet remain a progressive and developing club is naive

 

Frank, surely it's more naive to have a "£30m" left back while the starting centre backs and holding midfielders cost us less in total to put together. The sale of Luke would give us an opportunity to improve the squad in other areas as well as secure his replacement - surely that makes more sense?

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If it is true, £40m makes very good sense. Even if the price was negotiated down to, say, £35m, that reflects, as others have said, the value to Southampton. It would provide sufficient funds to buy a replacement, as it's not likely that Matt Targett could step straight in at the same level, and it would leave cash over to add to the transfer pot. Very good though, to see that the media have been told that Southampton is not allowing other clubs to pick who they want. That message was part of Kruguer's ineffectual interview which was undermined by the immediate sale of Lambert. It now looks like they intend to make the message stick. If Koeman does intend to resist letting Shaw and Lallana leave, maybe the bigger fight will be to keep Lovren as he has a much shorter history with Saints and is the only one reported as having put his transfer request in officially. Anyone know what length of contract Lovren is on?

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Next stop written transfer demands from Lallana and Shaw. In fairness to Lovren at least he was honest from the outset and put in a written transfer request rather than guerrilla warfare through the media as we are seeing here which makes Lallana and Shaw look terrible. A lot of this is also likely to be huff and puff from the club who are conscious of being seen to have vehemently resisted, whilst at the same time selling season tickets let's not forget. In the meantime they are probably happily negotiating deal terms.

 

Are the club really going to insist these players hang around in such circumstances? If so it will be interesting to see how these players react and what impact all this has on team morale. Be careful what you wish for......as most fans best result from all this ( i.e. status quo) could actually be the worst.

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Next stop written transfer demands from Lallana and Shaw. In fairness to Lovren at least he was honest from the outset and put in a written transfer request rather than guerrilla warfare through the media as we are seeing here which makes Lallana and Shaw look terrible. A lot of this is also likely to be huff and puff from the club who are conscious of being seen to have vehemently resisted, whilst at the same time selling season tickets let's not forget. In the meantime they are probably happily negotiating deal terms.

 

Are the club really going to insist these players hang around in such circumstances? If so it will be interesting to see how these players react and what impact all this has on team morale. Be careful what you wish for......as most fans best result from all this ( i.e. status quo) could actually be the worst.

 

 

I thought that but didn't like to say so, other than that MU have already told us to f*ck right off anyway because Van Gaal has other targets in mind and we're putting on a show of bravado.

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Next stop written transfer demands from Lallana and Shaw. In fairness to Lovren at least he was honest from the outset and put in a written transfer request rather than guerrilla warfare through the media as we are seeing here which makes Lallana and Shaw look terrible. A lot of this is also likely to be huff and puff from the club who are conscious of being seen to have vehemently resisted, whilst at the same time selling season tickets let's not forget. In the meantime they are probably happily negotiating deal terms.

 

Are the club really going to insist these players hang around in such circumstances? If so it will be interesting to see how these players react and what impact all this has on team morale. Be careful what you wish for......as most fans best result from all this ( i.e. status quo) could actually be the worst.

 

Both Suarez and Rooney were angling moves away from their respective clubs last summer - ManUre and Scousepool both played hardball with them and they ended up staying - And had good seasons too.

 

Far better to be tough and resolute than wimping around letting our tummy being tickled by players and clubs - If they go they go on our terms end of...

 

Fair play to RonKo and Les for playing hardball!

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Koeman wants to keep him as Shaw is perfect for the system Koeman wants to play with us, but he has said that if Van Gaal (whom he dislikes) wants to buy Shaw then he can pay us well over the odds. That would allow Koeman to go in for Blinds or similar offset wages or similar and possibly still come back with quite a bit of change. If not then great, the lads value is only likely to go up.

 

Where does this particular gem come from ?

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Just sell him £30m is a great deal there is absolutely no guarantee he will become a great LB he possibly will but on the other hand he may not

 

He's ALREADY a great left back! You do realise he was in the Premier League team of the year last season?

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With clubs having more money than ever from the tv deal hikes, and the value of homegrown young players escalating, we'd have to be insane not to be squeezing every penny of possible value from a sale we don't even want to make.

 

Of course the ideal would be for us to spend those kind of amounts on the other 10 positions to make the club as successful as possible so he wouldn't have any reason to leave... though FFP might be putting the mockers on that.

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Next stop written transfer demands from Lallana and Shaw. In fairness to Lovren at least he was honest from the outset and put in a written transfer request rather than guerrilla warfare through the media as we are seeing here which makes Lallana and Shaw look terrible. A lot of this is also likely to be huff and puff from the club who are conscious of being seen to have vehemently resisted, whilst at the same time selling season tickets let's not forget. In the meantime they are probably happily negotiating deal terms.

 

Are the club really going to insist these players hang around in such circumstances? If so it will be interesting to see how these players react and what impact all this has on team morale. Be careful what you wish for......as most fans best result from all this ( i.e. status quo) could actually be the worst.

 

I don't think there has been any evidence of a transfer request from Lovren.

 

And on top of that, he has been switching is his profile pics to him in a saints shirt at various points throughout the world cup. I will bide my time before assuming he is off personally.

 

Although, if Barcelona are really in for him then I don't think anyone would begrudge him that move.

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"For all Shaw's talent it is an astonishing price to ask for a left back who is still learning his trade, and has yet to play a competitive international."

 

What the Daily Mail don't appear to have grasped is that valuation is set by the selling club, not by the buying club and certainly not by the media. He may not be worth £40m to Utd, or to the Daily Mail, but if he's worth that to Saints, that is frankly all that matters. And it shouldn't be astonishing.

 

This precisely. Sick of having fans of other clubs telling us what our players are worth. Value is subjective. Don't want to meet our value? Kindly sod off.

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He's ALREADY a great left back! You do realise he was in the Premier League team of the year last season?

 

He becomes great when he achieves something at a higher leevel. For all his potentail he still has little end product in the last third. If he adds that to his game consistantly and wins things then we can start calling him great.

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He becomes great when he achieves something at a higher leevel. For all his potentail he still has little end product in the last third. If he adds that to his game consistantly and wins things then we can start calling him great.

 

I've asked this before, but no one wants to give an answer. Name me a better LB, we can get, for say 8-10m? As some people seem to think we can replace him for £10m, or that losing him isn't a big deal as he's not that good etc. He is that good, and why people don't recognise that and want to swing it around to say he's not that good is bizarre.

 

The left back has to be an international, has attacking input and 2 years pretty faultless PL experience.

 

I think you'd struggle.

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as we are still only permitted to play 11 players at a time :lol:..... a transfer fee of this magnitude will surely become the benchmark for (m)any future deals....

 

..and maybe even other developing talents from the Academy who become surplus to requirements (at some future date)....even if we don't see a fee anywhere near £40 mill. every time it's a good sign.

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I've asked this before, but no one wants to give an answer. Name me a better LB, we can get, for say 8-10m? As some people seem to think we can replace him for £10m, or that losing him isn't a big deal as he's not that good etc. He is that good, and why people don't recognise that and want to swing it around to say he's not that good is bizarre.

 

The left back has to be an international, has attacking input and 2 years pretty faultless PL experience.

 

 

I think you'd struggle.

Well back in January I advocated selling Shaw and replacing him with either Ricardo Rodriguez or Faouzi Ghoulam, either of them would have cost us less than 10 million £ at that time, Ghoulam went to Naples for about 7 million€ and now Rodriguez will cost you so much more than he would have then. These 2 players are equally as good as Shaw, probably better defenders and better crossers to boot, we missed out on them tough titty for us.

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Where does this particular gem come from ?

 

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/06/19/louis-van-gaals-frosty-relationship-with-ronald-koeman-could-end/

 

Apparently he watched Koeman's training sessions at a camp in Portugal like a headmaster assessing a pupil - which did not go down well with Koeman, now a successful manager in his own right. Van Gaal criticised Koeman in his autobiography saying he didn't have the players in hand and that he had to separate Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Rafael van der Vaart from a fight because Koeman was too weak.

 

He sold Zlatan, who had become a problem, but Koeman complained in the press and shortly after Van Gaal stepped down as technical director - citing 'internal conflict'.

 

The pairs relationship remains frosty. Once their wives were best of friends, but now they reportedly barely speak.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/22/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-colourful-controversial

 

 

Van Gaal endured friction at Barcelona with Rivaldo, the Brazil forward while, during his spell as Ajax's technical director in 2004, he clashed with the manager, Ronald Koeman. During a training camp in Portugal, Van Gaal took a chair for himself and placed it on the side of the pitch and, arms folded, he would watch all of Koeman's sessions from it. It is not difficult to imagine how Van Gaal might have reacted had the roles been reversed.

 

http://vorige.nrc.nl/sport/article2381484.ece/Louis_van_Gaal_rekent_af_met_Ronald_Koeman

 

Louis van Gaal makes himself known in his biography of other side. The greater honor and glory of themselves, for example, he shows very little Ronald Koeman, his successor at AZ.

 

Rotterdam, Oct. 8 A book like settlement: it is more exposure. In the book that is being presented today, Louis van Gaal - Biography and vision, the protagonist (and lead author) looks at his colleague Ronald Koeman on the grain. It is spicy, because Koeman followed Van Gaal this summer as coach of AZ. And it is remarkable as Van Gaal himself in his biography praises for his honesty and directness, always looking for the confrontation.

 

This confrontation is missing in this book - a strange mix of autobiography and interviews with supporters. Van Gaal talks, his friends talking (very highly of him); opponents as Ronald Koeman, Marco van Basten, Johan Cruyff and some Ajax Directors at best object of criticism and backbiting. So late former successful coach of Ajax - unintentionally, you may assume - of an unknown side know.

 

Van Gaal writes that he wanted to catch up. "Friend" Koeman late nineties as an assistant to Barcelona "I would not do it," Barcelona President Nunez would have responded. "He only thinks of himself." Koeman came anyway, not long after the beginning of 2000, head coach of Vitesse be. A promotion that Koeman had the goodness of Van Gaal. Owe This took its chairman to ask Vitesse. Had no ransom "John, you deserve so much to me", said Van Gaal against Nuñez, "let that boy go."

 

Non-valeur

 

"That boy," Koeman so, he came almost two years later, with Ajax. And there it went wrong. In his role as technical director Van Gaal was disturbed by coach Ronald Koeman, his subordinate. The coach was "the fruit of Van Gaals 'experience and any advice' pick, but that proved too much to ask. Gaals of 'teacher' Max Koops, a chapter is interviewed by one of the co-authors Robert Heukels long Koeman put down as a beginner, a non-valeur that his players can not communicate well. And listen to the tips of ho 'good' Van Gaal, however. 'Real trainers' immerse themselves in other disciplines, if not Koeman. "What the farmer does not know, he does not. Eats"

 

From Gaals free days crept Koeman to the Ajax Board to complain about the interference of the technical director. But 'TD' Van Gaal had to be strict, he writes, because Koeman was too weak. "The real problem with Ajax: Ronald Koeman no longer had that group in the hand." In fact, "We had already talked about his successor."

 

Button doogehakt

 

Van Gaal said he had to intervene in a feud between the players Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Rafael van der Vaart personally. "Basically Ronald Koeman had to be resolved, but he could not. Then I cut the knot, really just to protect so that he would retain. "His authority in the locker room he

 

Ibrahimovic was sold, problem solved. But thank Van Gaal rather Koeman complained in the media about the departure of his star player Zlatan. So it came to the relationship between Van Gaal and Koeman (their wives Hilda and Bartina were the best of friends) to an end.

 

Van Gaal had even called over to the Ajax players to force the sponsor of Fiat to the club to come, and not with their BMWs. "I asked Koeman:" Put you out? " No, he did not. Then I do it, I said. "After the case was so chirp.

 

That the period-Koeman two league titles, the KNVB Cup and reaching the Champions League quarter-final was the most successful of the last twelve years at Ajax, remains unmentioned.

 

Third choice

 

In 2005, Van Gaal moved to AZ (again as a coach), and this summer Koeman followed him. About that Van Gaal sneers that Koeman was only third choice, after Co Adriaanse and **** Advocaat. These toppers would not come to Alkmaar. But do not worry, even Koeman's best 'a very reasonable substitute.

 

The book launch does not take place in the stadium of AZ, the club with which Van Gaal was champion and he writes so hot. The club moreover, where he says he left grudge against Ajax. Biography and vision tonight at baptism held at the Arena, where Van Gaal lost the battle of Koeman and all kinds of power games. Strange or not, at least this location is at a safe distance from Ronald Koeman, the man whose mind now as not appreciated.

 

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I've asked this before, but no one wants to give an answer. Name me a better LB, we can get, for say 8-10m? As some people seem to think we can replace him for £10m, or that losing him isn't a big deal as he's not that good etc. He is that good, and why people don't recognise that and want to swing it around to say he's not that good is bizarre.

 

The left back has to be an international, has attacking input and 2 years pretty faultless PL experience.

 

I think you'd struggle.

 

I am not saying he is not good. I am saying he isnt great (yet). There is no way he is worth upwards of £30m and there are better young full backs out there for less. Clyne has scored more goals than Shaw. Do you remember David Peach? He scored plenty of goals from open play as well as pens. Luke has a long way to go.

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