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Is the squad stronger now than when the 13/14 season closed on 11/5/14?


Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

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Will probably wait until the transfer window closes to judge, tbf.

 

IF nobody in and around the first team leaves between now and then, I would say the depth is much better (we could realistically field 8 different players in central midfield :lol: ), but it's difficult to tell whether the overall quality has increased without seeing the new arrivals in action over a period of time.

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No, I don't think it is.

A perfect summer would have been selling Lambert, Shaw and Osvaldo and signing Gardos, Pelle, Tadic, Bertrand and Forster. That would have pushed us on as genuine top 4 contenders I think.

For perfect read fantasy.

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There is an argument for it, but not a particularly strong one yet as people have said, we haven't seen them in action over a period of time. I think this thread will be best after the season or towards the end of it. We need to see how they performs over the different parts of the season. The extra depth would give me confidence that it could be stronger, but there's a few hurdles to overcome:

 

-Can the lads gel and build up a head of steam for the run of "easier" fixtures after Liverpool? That would be a good sign. If were on course to equal or better last season we need to picking up almost all wins from after Liverpool.

 

-How do they handle the s****y Christmas period with the big games? If we do struggle with the bigger teams can we force any draws and can we at least beat the "weaker" teams in-between the bigger ones (last Christmas we couldn't even take many points off the "easier" teams in-between the bigger ones which made it more frustrating).

 

-Can we rebuild the momentum after the difficult Christmas period, last season I don't feel we ever did to the same level as before. We pretty much managed to hang onto our position.

 

-Can we give the cups a good run (depends upon the draws obviously).

 

As depth was the prime problem at Christmas, and that was the tougher period, as for this season, I think we could be in with a better chance. But as has been said, it all depends on how well the squad gels and starts in the first couple of months. They are crucial as if we flounder in those, then we'll be in the dog house come Christmas (unless we do a Sunderland and beat the top teams in a run?? :lol: :shakey:)

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Weaker. It's not likely the news signings will be as strong as we've lost chambers who can play in three positions. Stronger in goal as long as boruc stays. But Gardos, Bertrand, tadic and pelle are going to have to be amazing to be better than who left.

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Well we'll soon find out I suppose, but right now I'd say that not only do we look weaker, we seem to be perhaps significantly weaker. I'm expecting a difficult start to the season and if that happens it seems questionable whether this hastily assembled squad (and its manager) will recover in time to prevent the season becoming a disaster. Indeed our survival may depend not upon our outright strength, but rather on us finding 3 other clubs even weaker than we are.

 

You just can't mismanage a squad to the extent that SFC has this summer and then expect to escape the consequences. Not in this league.

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Squad is stronger, team is weaker IMO.

 

We have more depth now, although we're still severely lacking in the attacking positions IMO. Arguably need another CB too.

 

GK (FORSTER/BORUC/DAVIS/GAZZA) vs (BORUC/DAVIS/GAZZA) - Stronger as long as Boruc stays

 

RB (CLYNE/CHAMBERS) vs (CLYNE/MCCARTHY) - Weaker

CB (LOVREN/FONTE/MAYA/JOS) vs (GARDOS/FONTE/MAYA/JOS) - Weaker - potentially just as good but I'd be surprised if Garos is on Lovren's level.

LB (SHAW) vs (BERTRAND) - Weaker

 

DM (WANYAMA/MORGAN/CORK) vs (WANYAMA/MORGAN/CORK) - Same although Morgan likely to leave.

AM/RW/LW (LALLANA/DAVIS/JWP/JROD//GASTON/GULY) vs (TADIC/TAIDER/DAVIS/JWP/JROD/GASTON) - Hard to say although probably weaker with JRod injured)

 

ST (LAMBERT/GALLAGHER) vs (PELLE/GALLAGHER/LONG) - Arguably stronger although neither are as good as Lambert.

 

Might have missed someone.....

Edited by Saint Garrett
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It's all about the blend. I am mightily impressed with Koeman's thinking. He seems to have filled the gaps well. The proof is how quickly they settle in to playing with each other. I think Long's signing could prove a masterstroke more for his effect on the team than his goal count. Looking forward to Sunday now. I think we will be better because the core of the side were already on their way in their minds.

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Well we'll soon find out I suppose, but right now I'd say that not only do we look weaker, we seem to be perhaps significantly weaker. I'm expecting a difficult start to the season and if that happens it seems questionable whether this hastily assembled squad (and its manager) will recover in time to prevent the season becoming a disaster. Indeed our survival may depend not upon our outright strength, but rather on us finding 3 other clubs even weaker than we are.

 

You just can't mismanage a squad to the extent that SFC has this summer and then expect to escape the consequences. Not in this league.

 

Saints didn't mismanage the squad. They made the best of a bad job, That group and the coaches were on their way soon after Cortese left. Adam knew he was doubling his money before the season was over. If those players had been forced to stay we would probably be relegated.

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Well we'll soon find out I suppose, but right now I'd say that not only do we look weaker, we seem to be perhaps significantly weaker. I'm expecting a difficult start to the season and if that happens it seems questionable whether this hastily assembled squad (and its manager) will recover in time to prevent the season becoming a disaster. Indeed our survival may depend not upon our outright strength, but rather on us finding 3 other clubs even weaker than we are.

 

You just can't mismanage a squad to the extent that SFC has this summer and then expect to escape the consequences. Not in this league.

 

Yep you are right although I wouldn't agree with the mismanagement allegation, a lot of what has happened was unavoidable. Chambers leaving was the biggest blow for me.

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Well we'll soon find out I suppose, but right now I'd say that not only do we look weaker, we seem to be perhaps significantly weaker. I'm expecting a difficult start to the season and if that happens it seems questionable whether this hastily assembled squad (and its manager) will recover in time to prevent the season becoming a disaster. Indeed our survival may depend not upon our outright strength, but rather on us finding 3 other clubs even weaker than we are.

 

You just can't mismanage a squad to the extent that SFC has this summer and then expect to escape the consequences. Not in this league.

 

Good post and sums up my thoughts.

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As things stand now, we're stronger at goalkeeper, with Forster and Boruc, versus Boruc and Davis/Gazzaniga. No question that's a huge upgrade.

 

In defense, it depends on how well Gardos adapts. If he is close to being as good as Lovren, we are much the same: Clyne/Chambers/Fonte/Lovren/Yoshida/Shaw to Clyne/Fonte/Gardos/Yoshida/Bertrand/Targett. If reports that we are still in for Vlaar and/or Wollscheid are true, and we actually do sign one of them, we'll be significantly stronger, I'd say.

 

Defensive midfield is the same, or stronger if we count Taider as a defensive player (which he seems to be). Granted that the team means what they say about keeping Morgan (I believe they do), and that he behaves sensibly (if he wants to play for France and earn a big move eventuially, he will); and assuming we're not really dumb enough to sell Cork to Palace for 3 mill.

 

Creative/attacking mid: not obviously weaker, since Tadic looks a fully adequate replacement for Lallana and we still have the rest of our players here. In fact, if Ramirez starts to play up to his talent, he'll be almost like a new signing, and Isgrove and/or McQueen may step up and contribute too. Still like to see a wide player brought in though.

 

Strikers: last season we had Lambert/Rodriguez/Gallagher (since Osvaldo was either injured, suspended, or out on loan). This season we have Pelle/Rodriguez/Long/Gallagher. That is stronger, so long as JRod comes back fully fit and up to his old level (or better), and so long as Pelle pans out.

 

So on paper the squad and team look as good or better. There are obviously question marks over how Pelle, Tadic, and Gardos will pan out in the Prem; and it would be nice to see just one more good defender and wide attacking player come in. But as things stand, we look strong so long as players gel well and play up to their talent.

 

Btw, management: we have a very strong team with R Koeman, Erwin K, Sammy Lee and Dave Watson. No fears in that department, in fact it looks stronger than last year!

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Saints didn't mismanage the squad. They made the best of a bad job, That group and the coaches were on their way soon after Cortese left. Adam knew he was doubling his money before the season was over. If those players had been forced to stay we would probably be relegated.

 

I'm not privy to all the ins and outs of each individual transfer, I don't suppose many are, but it seems clear enough that something extraordinary has happened at our club this summer - with rumours that Morgan Schneiderlin and Jack Cork might be offski too that mass exodus may not even have concluded yet.

 

Good players want to 'better' themselves, I get that, but how often do you see other PL clubs with good players on their books, clubs such as Everton for instance, losing quite as many as we have? No, to my way of thinking the board can't escape the blame for what would seem on the outside to be a atypical level of discontent within our squad.

 

When you come across a 'ship' as unhappy as SFC has been recently, then the blame for that situation is normally found on the bridge ... not in the engine room.

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It's too early to say. Apart from needing time to adjust to the best tactics, some players have not played in the Prem before.

 

I think we will have a tough intro to the season, but then rapidly improving as a team and results.

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I'm not privy to all the ins and outs of each individual transfer, I don't suppose many are, but it seems clear enough that something extraordinary has happened at our club this summer - with rumours that Morgan Schneiderlin and Jack Cork might be offski too that mass exodus may not even have concluded yet.

 

Good players want to 'better' themselves, I get that, but how often do you see other PL clubs with good players on their books, clubs such as Everton for instance, losing quite as many as we have? No, to my way of thinking the board can't escape the blame for what would seem on the outside to be a atypical level of discontent within our squad.

 

When you come across a 'ship' as unhappy as SFC has been recently, then the blame for that situation is normally found on the bridge ... not in the engine room.

 

I believe after Cortese left, Pochettino told his favourites that the dream was over, he was off and they should do the same. Agents and tapping up did the rest. Adam knew he could double his money before the end of the season. The club did well to sell them for silly money.

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I think the club is in a much better place. More accountability and corporate governance at board level, a strong squad management team, good squad depth. Yes we have lost that "team spirit", but that was gone whatever happened. Refused the transfers, p1ssed off squad, refuse some = Morgan x 3 or 4. So on that basis we are probably in a better place.

 

where it went awry, was the club shifted players out without the replacements coming through fast enough to appease us, the fans. Now we are in a good place to move forward, even more so if there is one or two cheeky last minute deals. They may have just got away with this although if it was through courageous decision making or blind luck, I couldn't say.

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We lost some excellent players, but lets not overstate. Chambers has huge promise, but he was hardly key to our team success last season: a bit part player, albeit a good one. Shaw was fantastic, but left backs don't make or break a team, and we have good replacements. Lambert was an important player for us, but he's on the down slope of his career. The big losses are Lovren and Lallana, and how Gardos and Tadic fare will be key to our season. Each of these transfers made sense individually: fantastic offers from Champions' League playing teams (or a top club in the case on ManU). The problem was that we were much quicker to sell players than to replace them: that was bad management from the board, but we now see that very decent looking replacements have been brought in, and we have even been strengthened in goal and up front! The whole "exodus" thing was exaggerated news paper repetition (journalists are incapable of thinking for themselves these days).

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Overall slightly stronger but they will take time to gel which is going to see us start more sluggishly.

 

GK dept is easily better than last year, a crucial improvement.

 

Defence is weaker but if we could pick up another quality CH we'd be pretty close.

 

Midfield is the same or slightly better, DMs are still the same and I think Tadic will be at least the equal of Adam.

 

Up front we are better, last season we were a bit threadbare but now we've got some solid backup. Hopefully Pelle can cover the Lambert shaped hole and I think Long will surprise a few. With JRod making a return and Gallacher pushing for a place there should be some competition.

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Depends entirely on what happens with Schneiderlin and Boruc, I feel. I think on the whole we are weaker, but our performances and results will be more consistent, especially with two competent goalkeepers and two strikers capable of leading the line, compared to just Lambert last year (ignoring Osvaldo). Last season we had some games where we were easily top 4 quality and some where we were playing like a team in 17th; this season I think (hope) we'll be more like a team hovering around 10th nearly every game.

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Possibly stronger with regards squad depth but we definitely have a weaker team. It can take a player at least a season to bed in (See JRod) and if some of our 7 new boys take that long then we are in a bit of trouble, particularly with the attacking players! As many of them as possible need to hit the ground running.

Next there is the new manager and pattern of play, we were so good last season as Poch had time to coach and work on our pattern of play in the 6 months we had the season before. We shouldn't expect too much of Koeman and his staff too soon, it takes time, patience and a lot of hard work to become as good as a team as we were last year. I honestly believe if we had another top class striker we could have made Europe.

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Oh good thread this.

 

Great question.

 

The squad MIGHT BECOME stronger but currently is nowhere near last seasons team. If only we'd kept all our players and bought in Forster, Tadic and Pelle over the summer. We'd be on our way to Europe.

 

Please can you point me in the rough direction of this mythical money tree. I'm short a few quid this week.

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We lost some excellent players, but lets not overstate. Chambers has huge promise, but he was hardly key to our team success last season: a bit part player, albeit a good one. Shaw was fantastic, but left backs don't make or break a team, and we have good replacements. Lambert was an important player for us, but he's on the down slope of his career. The big losses are Lovren and Lallana, and how Gardos and Tadic fare will be key to our season. Each of these transfers made sense individually: fantastic offers from Champions' League playing teams (or a top club in the case on ManU). The problem was that we were much quicker to sell players than to replace them: that was bad management from the board, but we now see that very decent looking replacements have been brought in, and we have even been strengthened in goal and up front! The whole "exodus" thing was exaggerated news paper repetition (journalists are incapable of thinking for themselves these days).

 

Sums up my thoughts nicely

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  • 3 weeks later...
So what are our thoughts on this now - if we sign Alderweireld and Mane and no-one else leaves?

 

Much much weaker, nailed on for relegation IMHO ;)

 

The squad is weaker, we have a few loans with no guarantees they'll stay on after next year. If we lose too many of our loan players we could be in for another fun transfer window next year but the squad is in decent shape as premier league squads go. I think 10-12 is a realistic expectation which I would have bitten your hand off for a few short weeks ago.

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Much much weaker, nailed on for relegation IMHO ;)

 

The squad is weaker, we have a few loans with no guarantees they'll stay on after next year. If we lose too many of our loan players we could be in for another fun transfer window next year but the squad is in decent shape as premier league squads go. I think 10-12 is a realistic expectation which I would have bitten your hand off for a few short weeks ago.

 

8th to 12th has been my thoughts throughout the Summer, but personally I think the squad is stronger and more balanced now.

 

Alderweireld is hopefully as good as Lovren, he certainly was rated that way a couple of years ago.

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So what are our thoughts on this now - if we sign Alderweireld and Mane and no-one else leaves?

 

I'm quietly positive about our squad assuming no out-goings tonight and the two new guys sign but until I've seen the team play some games it's not possible to say for sure at this moment in time.

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A little too premature......but if it happens as we believe, then whilst some area's are a notch down in quality from last year, the overall depth of the squad is greater in most positions.

 

The club said to judge them after the window, and if all goes to plan today, then they deserve credit for pulling around a pretty hopeless situation in June.

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I'm quietly positive about our squad assuming no out-goings tonight and the two new guys sign but until I've seen the team play some games it's not possible to say for sure at this moment in time.

 

I think it will take time for the team to properly 'click', but I don't think it will take too long to properly get going. If Koeman is a better manager than Poch I think we could have a team to challenge for 6th.

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several loan players? 2 including the new signing and 1 we have option to buy.

 

So long as no first teamers (Boruc apart) leave and the 2 guys sign we will have had an excellent window.....

 

Forster looks like an outstanding acquisition and a step up from Boruc

Bertrand is a more than adequate replacement for Shaw (and Targett is looking very promising)

2 new Centrebacks so we now have 4 CBs vying for 2 positions and the Belgian could be quite a coup

Midfield is strong - very strong. Keeping Morgan will be the best bit of business in the window and we have 2 players for every position. Tadic actually looks like an upgrade on Lallana right now

We are perhaps still a bit light up front - with only Pelle and Long as recognized strikers (with Gallagher in the wings)

 

Factor in we now have Koeman and I am delighted - and the Board have lived up to their promise. No fire sale here to see.

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several loan players? 2 including the new signing and 1 we have option to buy.

 

So long as no first teamers (Boruc apart) leave and the 2 guys sign we will have had an excellent window.....

 

Forster looks like an outstanding acquisition and a step up from Boruc

Bertrand is a more than adequate replacement for Shaw (and Targett is looking very promising)

2 new Centrebacks so we now have 4 CBs vying for 2 positions and the Belgian could be quite a coup

Midfield is strong - very strong. Keeping Morgan will be the best bit of business in the window and we have 2 players for every position. Tadic actually looks like an upgrade on Lallana right now

We are perhaps still a bit light up front - with only Pelle and Long as recognized strikers (with Gallagher in the wings)

 

Factor in we now have Koeman and I am delighted - and the Board have lived up to their promise. No fire sale here to see.

 

Fair assessment

Don't forget Rodriguez is to come back. He was on fire last season

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several loan players? 2 including the new signing and 1 we have option to buy.

 

So long as no first teamers (Boruc apart) leave and the 2 guys sign we will have had an excellent window.....

 

Forster looks like an outstanding acquisition and a step up from Boruc

Bertrand is a more than adequate replacement for Shaw (and Targett is looking very promising)

2 new Centrebacks so we now have 4 CBs vying for 2 positions and the Belgian could be quite a coup

Midfield is strong - very strong. Keeping Morgan will be the best bit of business in the window and we have 2 players for every position. Tadic actually looks like an upgrade on Lallana right now

We are perhaps still a bit light up front - with only Pelle and Long as recognized strikers (with Gallagher in the wings)

 

Factor in we now have Koeman and I am delighted - and the Board have lived up to their promise. No fire sale here to see.

 

We'll have the option to buy Alderweireld as well I am sure.

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