Saints 4 Dugout Pioneers 1 - Post Match

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Charles Buchan's Football Monthly Goal Keeping Manuel Christmas edition:

Goalkeepers should not move off their line until the opposing player with the ball moves into the penalty area to strike. He then maximises his height and can move out to narrow the angle. He should always try to put himself in a position to move forward for the ball and never have to move or jump backwards.

 

Tell that to Pep at Man City

[Sheaf Saint]

when it went in, I thought oh no not again Frazer, but watching it onTV the ball dipped. There is no keeper in the world who would have got that one, you just have to hold your hands up and say ,great shop

 

Yeah I don't think anyone can lay the blame for it on Forster's doorstep. But....

 

If you look at it in isolation, despite us being so dominant yesterday, we still somehow contrived to let Everton score with their only shot on target.

[OldNick]

Yeah I don't think anyone can lay the blame for it on Forster's doorstep. But....

 

If you look at it in isolation, despite us being so dominant yesterday, we still somehow contrived to let Everton score with their only shot on target.

yep, but it would pretty sad to blame FF for that.

[Sheaf Saint]

yep, but it would pretty sad to blame FF for that.

 

Yes it would. If you're looking to apportion blame to anybody, then VVD slipped when Sigurdson turned back onto his right foot. If he hadn't then it's possible he could have blocked the shot, but we'll never know.

[DT]

yep, but it would pretty sad to blame FF for that.

 

I can think of a few keepers who would have got it. He's 6 foot 7 and effectively lobbed again. There's an issue about the spring he has left in his legs, post-injury, and timing his dives too early rather than taking another step. He's done it a few times. But yes, pretty difficult to stop that one

[verlaine1979]

Davis was probably the best of the midfielders yesterday, he does lots of unselfish work that goes unnoticed. It is a dilemma fitting all the players in

 

He took his goal well, but that's utter nonsense. Hoj's also did plenty of the minor, unselfish stuff that doesn't always get the credit it deserves, but he also gave us drive and leadership early in the second half when it was flagging. I can't remember the last time SD demanded the ball and controlled a game like that (though as has been said elsewhere, Everton's midfield were uncommonly obliging).

 

Put simply, Hoj yesterday played like the midfielder plenty of people on here pretend Davis to be (don't get me wrong though, Lemina is still better by leaps and bounds).

[hackedoff]

Positives 1 First goal scored from direct forward play

2 Second and third goals scored from playing with a centre forward and getting decent service to him.

3 PEH taking his chance to show what he can do, albeit against a poor team.

 

Negatives 1 VVD looks like he cant be bothered

2 Appearing to settle for a 1-0 half time score

3 Appearing to settle for a 3-1 final score

4 Needless negative move by the manager with the Yoshida substitution.

[Whitey Grandad]

Charles Buchan's Football Monthly Goal Keeping Manuel Christmas edition:

Goalkeepers should not move off their line until the opposing player with the ball moves into the penalty area to strike. He then maximises his height and can move out to narrow the angle. He should always try to put himself in a position to move forward for the ball and never have to move or jump backwards.

 

The only goalkeeping manuel that I can think of is Manuel Neuer. Other than him I'm stumped.

 

Of course in this case the opposing player never actually got into the area so according to that Forster should have been rooted on his line?

[Whitey Grandad]

I can think of a few keepers who would have got it. He's 6 foot 7 and effectively lobbed again. There's an issue about the spring he has left in his legs, post-injury, and timing his dives too early rather than taking another step. He's done it a few times. But yes, pretty difficult to stop that one

 

Then please name them.

 

Blaming FF for that is ridiculous. Save your ammunition for when he does make a balls-up.

[spyinthesky]

Then please name them.

 

Blaming FF for that is ridiculous. Save your ammunition for when he does make a balls-up.

 

Spot on comment

 

That shot was unstoppable

[pezza]

He took his goal well, but that's utter nonsense. Hoj's also did plenty of the minor, unselfish stuff that doesn't always get the credit it deserves, but he also gave us drive and leadership early in the second half when it was flagging. I can't remember the last time SD demanded the ball and controlled a game like that (though as has been said elsewhere, Everton's midfield were uncommonly obliging).

 

Put simply, Hoj yesterday played like the midfielder plenty of people on here pretend Davis to be (don't get me wrong though, Lemina is still better by leaps and bounds).

 

I wonder if the future could see the two midfielders being Hoj and Lemina, will be a tough decision leaving out Romeu and Davis but they will move the ball quicker

[Batman]

Spot on comment

 

That shot was unstoppable

 

that goal was just one of them worldies

[Charlie Wayman]

I think Bertrand started to tail off in the last 15-20mins. Up to that point, brilliant, but the standard of his passing and the effort seemed to thin out a little bit. But then, complacency is a cruel mistress!

 

Not at all the way I saw it with Bertie in front of me in the Itchen in the second half and don't forget Boufal was taken off so that partnership was wrecked at a stroke. Then again the game was won and we needed these guys recovered, fit and up and ready for Wednesday evening. I'd imagine the he was ****ged out by the end with all the effort and running he put in all afternoon.

[stknowle]

Lol, so the dugout pioneers, having originally wanted Simeone and Silva, interviewed Big Sam today

 

Yes there is humour in that but in a way it's bad news if they employ him - I would be very, very surprised if he didn't keep them up.

[krissyboy31]

Yeah I don't think anyone can lay the blame for it on Forster's doorstep. But....

 

If you look at it in isolation, despite us being so dominant yesterday, we still somehow contrived to let Everton score with their only shot on target.

It wasn't on target.it hit the woodwork 3 times!

[JRM]

Absolute dog**** opposition. Not a surprise they have the worst defensive record in the division.

 

Hard to extrapolate much from today’s performance. The Bournemouth game will be a better barometer of where we stack up.

 

Still will enjoy today. Three points is three points and that’s always a good thing.

 

Bloke next to me said Everton were the worst team he'd seen at St Marys since the 8-0 Sunderland game, couldn't really argue with that, they were so unbelievably poor.

[The9]

Hilarious refusal to accept that Pellegrino is as responsible for the win as he is for the draws and defeats on here. Snipey "win despite him" stuff from some people who, once again have already made up their minds.

 

FWIW I thought we were reasonably decent, not quite to last season's free-flowing standards (non-midweek game weeks) but the difference when there's effort all over the pitch, when we play an obvious early ball and when Bertrand bothers to overlap is like night and day. So, that's all the problems solved then, off to 8th... until the players decide not to bother or we come up against a team that's not absolutely garbage of course.

[eelpie]

If that's how we play from now on then I'll be very happy to have Pellegrino stay. Sort of reminds me of the Leicester home game last season, where Puel was under a little bit of pressure and we turned in a superb display. But we never really kicked on after that. Hopefully we do kick on this time.

 

I'm increasingly interested to see how we play ageists Puel's Leicester now. Will we play like we did this match - or regress to playing Pellegrino's Puel imitation style?

[The9]

I'm increasingly interested to see how we play ageists Puel's Leicester now. Will we play like we did this match - or regress to playing Les' style?

 

We'll have a ton of possession because they'll be happy for us to have it, and we will be fine IF we keep the tempo high and move the ball quickly - Leicester at the moment are still trying to play counter-attacking football but the defence they had in the Prem-winning season has disintegrated. I'll be interested to see if Puel changes anything (he doesn't seem to have yet), and whether he attacks the weaknesses of the Saints system which he'll know inside out because it hasn't changed since Koeman started leaving Targett out.

[ashnats]

I'm increasingly interested to see how we play ageists Puel's Leicester now. Will we play like we did this match - or regress to playing Pellegrino's Puel imitation style?

 

giving youth a chance doesn't make you ageist. Davis was one of the first names on the sheet, and he is picking wes morgan and fuchs at Leicester.

[Useful Idiot]

We'll have a ton of possession because they'll be happy for us to have it, and we will be fine IF we keep the tempo high and move the ball quickly - Leicester at the moment are still trying to play counter-attacking football but the defence they had in the Prem-winning season has disintegrated. I'll be interested to see if Puel changes anything (he doesn't seem to have yet), and whether he attacks the weaknesses of the Saints system which he'll know inside out because it hasn't changed since Koeman started leaving Targett out.

 

I think that on balance Leicester have a better, pacier forward line than us, more effective attacking midfield options (Mahrez>Boufal, Albrighton=Tadic, and Gray>Redmond) and a far, far batter keeper. We're stronger in midfield (That giant Spanish midfielder they have looks handy, but I think I prefer Romeu, Hoj and Lamina to anything they have in that area.) and defense (particularly at fullback, Fuchs and Simpson don't look that great this year. Saying that, they might swap Fuchs out for whassiname, that young English left back they have, he seems pretty good from what I've seen.)

 

As far as Puel's tactics go, they seem to be alternating between direct passing and keep ball through midfield. They still predominantly try to pass forward quickly but they miss Drinkwater and Kante. None of their CMs cover as much ground as those two did so they're more vulnerable to just outside their own area and don't get as many bodies forward to support quickly as they did when winning the title, mostly due to their not having the legs to.

 

Think it should be a fairly even game unless Mahrez gets used to playing as a 10 again, his passing has been extremely hit and miss the times I've watched them on Sky, tending to over hit through balls. If he finds his range again I think they're likely to score more than us. I normally don't wish injury on anyone, but I sincerely hope someone crocks that dirty turd Vardy before he does another one of our defenders.

 

I think, for us, the best option to beat them is to try to overload their fullback areas (I think Austin's movement has what it takes to get the better of Morgan in particular) while watching for their obvious strength on the counter, think Lemina might have to pick his times to get forward as his pace in covering might be essential.

[igsey]

Three players in the whoscored.com team of the week - Bertrand, Tadic and Austin (player of the week!).

[benjii]

I'm increasingly interested to see how we play ageists Puel's Leicester now. Will we play like we did this match - or regress to playing Pellegrino's Puel imitation style?

 

This view that we are normally really defensive and yesterday we were some attacking super team is just plain wrong. Tactically there is very little difference. It's mostly about individuals making good decisions, executing well and pulling their ****ing fingers out!

[Sheaf Saint]

It wasn't on target.it hit the woodwork 3 times!

 

But it still crossed the line. So it was on target, but only by the faintest of margins

[GarrettIvo]

Negatives 1 VVD looks like he cant be bothered

2 Appearing to settle for a 1-0 half time score

3 Appearing to settle for a 3-1 final score

4 Needless negative move by the manager with the Yoshida substitution.

 

1. He did nothing to suggest that. Handled Calvert-Lewis easily, and combined well with Hoedt and Cedric in particular. I understand we're all peeved about his behaviour in May-August but he was fine here.

2. Rubbish. We attacked again and again, the problem was we couldn't convert the half chances we did put together.

3. Heaven forbid we accept 3-1 wins every day of the week. Oh and look we scored a fourth!

4. If we ARE ever going to play three at the back - as many here have BEGGED for - probably a good time to give it a look is when you are 3-1 up against the ****test defence in the league. Oh and look we scored a fourth!

[doddisalegend]

I wonder if the future could see the two midfielders being Hoj and Lemina, will be a tough decision leaving out Romeu and Davis but they will move the ball quicker

 

That probably depends on weather Hoj can play like that regularly. That performance sunday is, so far, a one off against a very poor team. Romeu on the other hand has generally been quality for much of the last year and Davis is also scoring goals from midfield this season something we have been crying out for.

[doddisalegend]

This view that we are normally really defensive and yesterday we were some attacking super team is just plain wrong. Tactically there is very little difference. It's mostly about individuals making good decisions, executing well and pulling their ****ing fingers out!

 

This. We have had performances just as good at home this season against Swansea, Man U (second half), Newcastle, West Brom (where we should have been well ahead before Boufals wonder goal) and Burnely and come away with little or nothing due to **** poor finishing or lapses in defence. the big difference Sunday was that we took our chances and Everton were the worst team to come SMS in many years.

[kermitsaint]

This is completely spot on but some have stupid agendas and have decided what they will post after the game before they`ve seen it and some

don`t even watch at all before spouting off.. very odd

Haha pretty sure I watch more games than you Always [emoji23]

 

Every game is televised for me .

 

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[kermitsaint]

Lol ego driven individuals, so you think that VVD, Tadic and Boufal are team players, and Redmond is not. What jokers we have on here

Redmond a team player ? Surely you jest ?

Blames everyone else for his constant mistakes . Fails to pick out team mates movement for passing.

 

Plus Davis gives away possession constantly . His goal was good but I bet he was more surprised than we were .

 

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[mrfahaji]

I'm increasingly interested to see how we play ageists Puel's Leicester now. Will we play like we did this match - or regress to playing Pellegrino's Puel imitation style?

 

that's a new one! Now we have people annoyed that we were giving young players a chance!

[mrfahaji]

This. We have had performances just as good at home this season against Swansea, Man U (second half), Newcastle, West Brom (where we should have been well ahead before Boufals wonder goal) and Burnely and come away with little or nothing due to **** poor finishing or lapses in defence. the big difference Sunday was that we took our chances and Everton were the worst team to come SMS in many years.

 

I remember feeling positive after Swansea and Man Utd, but if we were 'as good' as Newcastle, WBA and Burnley then that's slightly worrying, don't think we were particularly good in any of those games! Maybe for the odd 15 minute period, but they weren't games where I thought "this could/should be 3 or 4 nil".

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Haha pretty sure I watch more games than you Always [emoji23]

 

Every game is televised for me .

 

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Possibly although i do watch all saints games but if that is the case then your comments should be more informed and a sensible account of what actually happens

instead of the inaccurate nonsense you often post...

 

Despite the post not being directly aimed at you it seems as though you are in stupid agenda group and realise this going by your response.

[kermitsaint]

Possibly although i do watch all saints games but if that is the case then your comments should be more informed and a sensible account of what actually happens

instead of the inaccurate nonsense you often post...

 

Despite the post not being directly aimed at you it seems as though you are in stupid agenda group and realise this going by your response.

Sorry I couldn't read what you wrote . It all came up as Blah Blah Blah with a dose of misguided gloating .

 

You really need to try harder . You know, like commenting on games with an opinion rather than attempting to bite at other posters [emoji4]

 

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[doddisalegend]

I remember feeling positive after Swansea and Man Utd, but if we were 'as good' as Newcastle, WBA and Burnley then that's slightly worrying, don't think we were particularly good in any of those games! Maybe for the odd 15 minute period, but they weren't games where I thought "this could/should be 3 or 4 nil".

 

 

The stats for all those games and yesterdays game are remarkable similar in all those games better finishing would have seen us out as comfortable winners (and a draw against man u). Finishing was the big difference on Sunday... well that and Everton played like a hungover Sunday league team.

[mrfahaji]

The stats for all those games and yesterdays game are remarkable similar in all those games better finishing would have seen us out as comfortable winners (and a draw against man u). Finishing was the big difference on Sunday... well that and Everton played like a hungover Sunday league team.

 

I don't know how much to read into match stats with Saints though, we seem to play a brand of football that props them up. While I'm slightly cynical of the xG statistic, it's one of the more meaningful ones, as 70% possession and 20 shots on goal is misleading if it's all been passing between the defenders and shots from 30 yards. For example, against Burnley, I think the xG was 0.9? Ok, so we were unlucky to LOSE the game from their only real chance in the match, but for all our possession I'm not sure we were definitively the better side, as Burnley executed their game plan well.

 

The 'core' stats don't tell you the tempo of attacks, the number of forward runs players make, number of times players get to the byline, bodies in the box for crosses etc, and those are the aspects of our game I think need improving.

[hypochondriac]

I remember feeling positive after Swansea and Man Utd, but if we were 'as good' as Newcastle, WBA and Burnley then that's slightly worrying, don't think we were particularly good in any of those games! Maybe for the odd 15 minute period, but they weren't games where I thought "this could/should be 3 or 4 nil".

 

doddisalegend seems to be the only poster banging this particular drum. In the majority of games this season we have looked pedestrian and posed little or no threat. West Ham 2nd half, Watford, Liverpool and Wolves to name a few. We din't look quite so bad against Burnley and United but we were still poor and lacked much of a threat in front of goal. It's not true to try to claim that what we saw on Sunday was not very different from the dross we have had to sit through. I've watched every game and for once I felt like I actually got my moneys worth.

[hypochondriac]

I don't know how much to read into match stats with Saints though, we seem to play a brand of football that props them up. While I'm slightly cynical of the xG statistic, it's one of the more meaningful ones, as 70% possession and 20 shots on goal is misleading if it's all been passing between the defenders and shots from 30 yards. For example, against Burnley, I think the xG was 0.9? Ok, so we were unlucky to LOSE the game from their only real chance in the match, but for all our possession I'm not sure we were definitively the better side, as Burnley executed their game plan well.

 

The 'core' stats don't tell you the tempo of attacks, the number of forward runs players make, number of times players get to the byline, bodies in the box for crosses etc, and those are the aspects of our game I think need improving.

 

Absolutely this and these were all markedly better than virtually every game this season on Sunday. THAT was the main difference.

[mrfahaji]

Absolutely this and these were all markedly better than virtually every game this season on Sunday. THAT was the main difference.

 

Ok thanks, good to know. Shame that our next game is against City really, as it would be good to see if we could have maintained that playing style, but fully expect (and wouldn't blame MP) to see a super defensive performance at the Etihad.

[OldNick]

I can think of a few keepers who would have got it. He's 6 foot 7 and effectively lobbed again. There's an issue about the spring he has left in his legs, post-injury, and timing his dives too early rather than taking another step. He's done it a few times. But yes, pretty difficult to stop that one

DT there is not a keeper that has ever lived that you would give any slack. I recall your constant attack on KD.

If you really believe that shot could be stopped then I'm amazed, but there again we have always had differing views on whether a keeper is up to it. I'm not FF fan but that was not possible to save

[DT]

DT there is not a keeper that has ever lived that you would give any slack. I recall your constant attack on KD.

If you really believe that shot could be stopped then I'm amazed, but there again we have always had differing views on whether a keeper is up to it. I'm not FF fan but that was not possible to save

 

Well that's fair enough. You're entitled to think that. I just think it's a position we have suffered from since the Shilton days. He was a proper keeper. I thought KD had his moments as a shot stopper, but was unreliable. It's frustrating that management can't seem to see the confidence that can run right through a team if they know they have a confident, strong, agile keeper. FF is none of those.

 

 

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[OldNick]

Well that's fair enough. You're entitled to think that. I just think it's a position we have suffered from since the Shilton days. He was a proper keeper. I thought KD had his moments as a shot stopper, but was unreliable. It's frustrating that management can't seem to see the confidence that can run right through a team if they know they have a confident, strong, agile keeper. FF is none of those.

 

 

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Shilton was a fantastic keeper, but remember that goal he let in against Germany in the semi final of the world cup where it looped up over his head?

[DT]

Shilton was a fantastic keeper, but remember that goal he let in against Germany in the semi final of the world cup where it looped up over his head?

 

Diego?

 

 

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[OldNick]

Diego?

 

 

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I forgot hat one, no it was the one that hit Paul Parker and looped up over Shilts

[saint1977]

I forgot hat one, no it was the one that hit Paul Parker and looped up over Shilts

 

Was it Andreas Braeme the left back with a free kick that got the looping deflection off Paul Parker? Wouldn't blame Shilts for that same as I wouldn't blame Fraser for Sunday. He's made plenty of mistakes this season but that wasn't one of them.

[krissyboy31]

Well that's fair enough. You're entitled to think that. I just think it's a position we have suffered from since the Shilton days. He was a proper keeper. I thought KD had his moments as a shot stopper, but was unreliable. It's frustrating that management can't seem to see the confidence that can run right through a team if they know they have a confident, strong, agile keeper. FF is none of those.

 

 

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3 words; Antti Mikko Niemi.

[DT]

3 words; Antti Mikko Niemi.

 

Also brilliant, true, and a couple of classes above FF and KD

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

I don't know how much to read into match stats with Saints though, we seem to play a brand of football that props them up. While I'm slightly cynical of the xG statistic, it's one of the more meaningful ones, as 70% possession and 20 shots on goal is misleading if it's all been passing between the defenders and shots from 30 yards. For example, against Burnley, I think the xG was 0.9? Ok, so we were unlucky to LOSE the game from their only real chance in the match, but for all our possession I'm not sure we were definitively the better side, as Burnley executed their game plan well.

 

The 'core' stats don't tell you the tempo of attacks, the number of forward runs players make, number of times players get to the byline, bodies in the box for crosses etc, and those are the aspects of our game I think need improving.

 

 

They also don't tell you about the quality of oppostion.

 

Our game plan wasn't overly different to the one we've used all season at home.We still played one up, we still tried to play a possession game, we still passed backwards and sideways a plenty, we still played it to slowly at times and had we the lions share of possession.

 

We weren't overloading oppostion box any more than normal ( Austin had two defenders on him for both his goals), we didnt put in more crosses than normal (better quality because of the amount of space and time the players got). The idea that we some how turned a corner yesterday and the manager suddenly got it right were he has been getting it wrong ( at home at least) is erroneous with better finishing we should have got similar results in several home games.

 

We played the same as we have in almost every home game this season and got results because Austin knows how to finish and Everton where woeful. Our third goal, for example, was ridiculous Tadic slows the move down ( a pretty common occurrence this season) loses the ball and yet despite five blue shirts is able to retrieve the ball under no pressure and dink in a cross it wasn't even Sunday league level defending from Everton.

 

Doesn't mean I didn't love every minute of Sundays game doesn't mean I don't think we didn't play well. But the idea some are putting forward the manager finally got it right after weeks of getting it wrong just doesn't work for me if anything I imagine MoPe feels totally vindicated that he has stuck to his style and formation.

[Wes Tender]

3 words; Antti Mikko Niemi.

 

Niemi was a brilliant keeper. Tim Flowers wasn't too shoddy either.

[Micky]

I really don't think that Fraser was to blame in anyway for their goal, it's just one of those that goes in the top corner. Better keepers have suffered similar:

 

[Whitey Grandad]

I really don't think that Fraser was to blame in anyway for their goal, it's just one of those that goes in the top corner. Better keepers have suffered similar:

 

 

That is a brilliant free kick, but I blame Seaman's ponytail for slowing him down